HiAndTight

I'm not saying that I believe because he failed to recruit the Hauser brothers he'll get fired, I just don't see much talent coming in and UW has been trending in the wrong direction for a few years now. It started when Bo left and he(Gard) did do a great job of turning that team around, but there's not much talent there and Gard was kinda forced upon Barry by Bo. Barry wanted to do a more comprehensive search for a head coach, but after Bo resigned during the season and Gard turned the team around, it would have been pretty difficult for Barry to argue that Gard shouldn't be retained. But my wording on that was too harsh. More importantly, you're 100 pct right about how fan bases treat KIDS they're programs are recruiting. It's really just despicable. I've never seen anything on these boards that I would say is even really approaching the line, but on other platforms, these kids are attacked and really chastised for wanting to simply go out of state or follow a different path. I certainly wasn't an athlete anyone would have cared about, but as much as I loved UW and couldn't have imagined going elsewhere now, but if I was an elite athlete in a major sport and had the attention of some of these schools, I would have definitely wanted to explore what else was out there.

Oh...I get it now. You're the guy who claimed Horst hadn't done a great job at buliding the Bucks roster. I thought I made things pretty clear. But I'll reiterate a few points with you for clarification since you didn't seem to understand the first time around. 1-I didn't compare Urlacher to Martinez. I simply pointed out to someone that the ability able to blow up linemen is no longer a skill possess by most LB'ers in the NFL. I used one of the best LB'ers to play the game as an example of how LB'ers can still be good and struggle in this aspect of the game. I never said it was "ok," but we're comparing him to his peers. His peers struggle with the same things he was being downgraded for. Since you're citing Daron Lee and Deion Jones, you apparently don't consider it to be very important either. 2-I don't know why you're going on about Bush as though you've proven some point. Or for that matter Edmunds from last year. It's really not hard to say "I predicted these guys would be good and I was right." It's particularly confusing when you're talking about one player who's never played a NFL game yet and another who has played just one season. It's particularly baffling since I don't care about any of them and they have nothing to do with this discussion. I don't know what the relevance of that rant was or what it has to do with anything. 3- If you say so. I certainly never did. You said you're constantly "swearing" at the TV about Martinez. This was apparently somehow meant to support your position that you're more qualified than everyone else on here to evaluate football talent. I simply pointed out that's not a real strong argument as I see people doing the same thing on a bar stool. You somehow conflating that with me calling YOU a drunk....that's all on you. I made a pretty clear clarification there. 4th-Never said Horst was a genius. I said he did a great job building the Bucks and that he had a good chance to win NBA Executive of the Year. You called him average and said anyone could have easily made the trade he did for Mirotic and the trade he made for Hill. As for Martinez, he's a good MLB'er. I guess if you're actually using Daron Lee, a guy who was literally one of the worst LB'ers who got regular playing time last year....then you apparently just like guys who put up good combine numbers. This seems like a particularly stupid topic to get bogged down in though, if Blake Martinez is average or above average, but like the Horst discussion, it's again going in circles, so how about this, we just block each other and move on?

Oh...I am SOOO pissed off right now. I bought a duplex in Milwaukee. Pretty much just a place for my little sister. I've also invested in some other properties, but I normally don't like dealing with the city of Milwaukee, so other than this one place, that's it. I got a letter on May 24th about the length of the grass and how the hedges needed to be cut and they needed to be cut by.....the 23rd of May. So whatever, I'm expecting a fine of 250. But it still needs to be cut, so I let her borrow a pickup truck, a lawnmower and a couple of other things. Long story short, she takes the cab off of the pickup and she puts it up against the garage and she takes a tool box I have in the bed out and puts that up against the door of the garage. It's a 2006, so not a brand new truck, but a pretty nice one for what I use it for. The city comes by and they TAKE the bed of the pickup and the toolbox WITH all the tools in it. I call the city, they tell me that it was collected because it was an eyesore and had been sitting there for over 6 months. It'd been there for less than TWO days. And that's it. I try discussing it with them, arguing and I'm doing so in a calm and reasonable voice and they just hang up on me. Jesus Christ....I'm just so annoyed right now. It's not like it's the end of the world, but they just came into my yard and took my stuff. It's just amazing. And the thing about the house is that you can't even see the garage from the road. It's behind the house and there are woods behind that for about 100 yards until there's a trail that runs along the river. Anyone have ANY idea what the heck I'm supposed or can do about this?

Not surprised people are against this move, but I'm surprised there is this strong of a consensus. Makes me curious who people would be willing to trade Burners for. Bauer? Would it take more like Verlander? I'd assume Cole wouldn't be considered since he's also set to be a FA. So a TOR type pitcher with 2 or 3 years of team control?

Not a huge loss because we didn't have them. It clearly would have been a HUGE gain for us had we gotten them. Writing it off as no big deal reminds me of when people were talking about how much Herro would fail at Kentucky and then downplaying his talent after he spurred UW for UK. They're good players and the Badgers badly needed an infusion of talent. They weren't game changers hence the nothing special. Herro is a special player that one hurt this one not so much. I don't think this is a huge loss as I don't believe either of them would have fit very well in the Wisconsin system. Joey Hauser wasn't a great defender and would at times disappear in the offense at Marquette it was like he wasn't even there at times. When Howard was out for a bit it was the Hauser show and they just didn't impress at all. I don't see this as a huge loss as I don't think the Badgers have that good of team even with both Hauser's on the team. They would still be about average and nothing more and that is why I just don't see this being that big of a deal. I didn't really care if he was going to be on Wisconsin or not I was more leaning towards he wasn't going to be and the UW visit by them was just a see we tried but it just wasn't a fit. Both of the Hauser's are going where they should be going though you could argue that Virginia and UW are about the same style wise. Joey Hauser is going to a team where he won't have to be the guy but will still get enough shots in at Michigan State. The offensive scheme and play is more suited for his style of play than it would be at Wisconsin. So because in your mind they weren't potential lottery picks, it's "no big deal" to lose two guys who should have been near locks? And this is during a time in which they have VERY little talent coming in and are at a crossroads. If UW's program starts to really tank, they're going to have a helluva hard time coming back. I also don't know how they don't fit UW's system. Seems like they fit it perfectly. Also, the difference between them even a 6 or 7 seed in the tourney and them being "average" which would mean missing the tourney is millions of dollars. There is absolutely no way this isn't a huge loss to the program and very possibly ends up being the final nail in Gard's coffin.

Yep. In fact I would argue this is now a bigger PR disaster for Wisconsin BB than Marquette. The fact that they split up rather than go to Wisconsin...yikes. I don't think its much of a PR nightmare for MU. I think fans know whats up. They didn't want to play with Howard and chose to transfer. I think its very likely they stay if Howard declared. * i am not saying that this doesn't suck for Marquette. They could have been one of the better teams in the country with them and now will be at best a fringe tourney team. I disagree. I think this is a problem for Marquette. You're talking about what the fans know, but potential recruits aren't going to follow these things as closely, they're just going to see two players at two of the top programs having success and know that they chose to split up and leave Marquette. It's a massive blow to UW as well though and for mulitple reasons.

Man I dislike him. I dislike him as much as I can possibly dislike a guy who didn't actually do anything wrong OTHER than going from a 12 pct 3 point shooter to hitting 10 of 12 in the last two games to end the Bucks season. Although if you listen to Skippy Bayless, the reason the Bucks season ended was because Giannis doesn't have that "killer mentality." And that's because they learn to play a different style in Europe. Your first mistake was listening to anything Skip Bayless says. I certainly can't argue with that...

You're probably right. You'd prefer to not have any guys causing problems right out of the gate when you've got a new HC, but Pettine is pretty well entrenched as the DC I'd think. And it sends a bad message to let a 2nd round pick who struggled because he can't figure out where he's supposed to be force his way out. The only issue is that being a ST's ace requires a guy who's going to give maximum effort at all times. It's up to him if he wants to be out of the league in another year or spend the next 6-7 years making a couple of million dollars a year to be a gunner and make a name for himself that way. Ty Montgomery at least had a legitimate complaint when he spoke up.

Man I dislike him. I dislike him as much as I can possibly dislike a guy who didn't actually do anything wrong OTHER than going from a 12 pct 3 point shooter to hitting 10 of 12 in the last two games to end the Bucks season. Although if you listen to Skippy Bayless, the reason the Bucks season ended was because Giannis doesn't have that "killer mentality." And that's because they learn to play a different style in Europe.

Man...I can't think of a worse fit for the Bucks. Yet there will be people clamoring for him and then complaining after the draft that we could have but didn't pick him. I will say though, I didn't mind them giving Koenig a shot.

I don't think Rendon is realistic personally. That's also not where I'd be looking. He'd likely cost Hiura or Burnes+. If I was the Nats, I'd be desperately looking for BP help as their starters are very good, but their BP is just abysmal. Seemingly every night they get 7/8 solid innings out of Scherzer/Stausburg/Corbin and their pen, which is on a historically bad pace kills them. But Doolittle is exactly the type of guy I'd be looking at. I'd love to never see Claudio pitch for the Brewers again. I disliked that move when it happened and he always seems to be the guy who blows it(I know he's not, but it feels that way). But yeah, Doolittle is perfect. He's not the final piece, but he'd be a very nice fit in our BP. As for the guys you said we can't afford, I'd gladly take Scherzer if the Nats ate his deferred salary. Problem is, that would start to get really expensive. If the Nats had it their way, they'd be paying 70 million a year in 2050 for players who retired 25 years earlier.

I'm actually surprised there aren't more people on board with this. I just read the first post. I'm against it, but I thought others would be for trading a young, relatively unproven pitcher for arguably the most proven post-season pitcher of this generation. I don't like it, but I don't think it's that outrageous. He is having a good season and pitching on a contender could very well give him a "Verlander-esque" shot in the arm. His K/BB ratio are up and his peripherals in general look pretty good. These are the types of moves that have the Brewers in a new city in 2030. Well, calling that hyperbole would be a bit of an uderstatement.

I'd have liked to keep him on the roster prior to this little stunt he's pulled. Something that he simply does not have the body of work to pull. I liked him as a depth guy, I thought he could be useful in sub packages as I've mentioned, but with a new coach, a very young one at that, and the issues that arose last year about the Packers locker room issues, they're probably better off getting rid of him than they are keeping him around. Not that I think he could do too much damage as I doubt many on the D care what he says or thinks(particularly with all the turnover, 5 new starters at least). It's a shame. He's kinda at that point Jeff Janis was after a couple of years. He's not getting much playing time on defense, but he could carve out a nice role as a special teams ace if he had the desire to(and he could still earn a role on the defense and certainly fall into one at some point when injuries arise).

Nobody, you don't win a fight about an opinion You lose an argument when you tell people you're more qualified than they are without having a clue as to their life experiences and then you misrepresent what they said and then, in my opinion, get extraordinarily condescending.

I'm actually surprised there aren't more people on board with this. I just read the first post. I'm against it, but I thought others would be for trading a young, relatively unproven pitcher for arguably the most proven post-season pitcher of this generation. I don't like it, but I don't think it's that outrageous. He is having a good season and pitching on a contender could very well give him a "Verlander-esque" shot in the arm. His K/BB ratio are up and his peripherals in general look pretty good.

Absolutely not. I'll respect the idea, it makes a lot of sense and it sets us up very well this year, but despite his struggles this year, I think he's going to be as good as, if not better than Woody has been this year. I don't want to pass up on 5 years of that. I really like MadBum, but I definitely do not want to give up Burnes. We're finally on the cusp of putting together a rotation of really talented, homegrown pitchers. I get the other side, we don't know how many times we'll get to this point where we're competitive, we've gotta take risks, MadBum has been a dominant playoff pitcher.

I called him above average actually, and will stand solidly by that. You're comparing him directly to HOF'ers, which seems a bit more unreasonable. He's not at that level, clearly, but he's an above-average LB at this point, IMO. And regarding the other stuff, the 'I know the game better than others' stuff generally doesn't fly with me, whether valid or not. It certainly can frame your viewpoints, but it's unlikely to make me and probably many others take you or whoever more seriously, if for no other reason than it's unverifiable. Too many instances of stuff like that not ending up true here over our many years for me to put much weight on that, whether your situation is legit or not. No offense intended, just IMO. He's actually complaining about me NOT comparing him to HOF LB'ers, but rather pointing out that it's exceptionally rare now that MLB'ers are capable of both shedding blockers and being able to cover ground and then pointing out that Kuechly is probably the one guy who can do that in today's NFL and that even Urlacher, as great as he was-was not great at getting of blocks. He wasn't even the best off-ball LB'er on his own team in that regard. The "I know more than everyone else" stuff almost always turns out to be nonsense, otherwise it is very obvious in the content of their posts and they don't feel the NEED to tell everyone how smart they are. They also don't feel the need to go out of their way to show people who smart they are by using basic football terminology in an attempt to try and prove their football IQ, ie, "what do you consider to be a MLB'er." We're comparing off ball base LB'ers. Also going back and telling people how high you were on Roquan Smith? Anyone and everyone who just watches the big CFB games was blown away by that kid. Martinez is very good vs the run. That much is clear and he does his job in coverage. He isn't capable of running down the field with an RB like or dropping into coverage like Urlacher, but again, there are very little MLB'ers in the NFL who are actually capable of doing all these things. If the Packers COULD have gotten Roquan Smith, I'm sure they'd have been happy to. However, they don't have him. Who they DO have is Blake Martinez, so in grading the defense Blake Martinez is not some black hole. He's a good, but imperfect MLB'er. He's an above average MLB'er. He's not the guy who makes our D. But he's certainly not the guy who hurts it, and he absolutely does excel at shootings gaps and reading the defense. As I said(though I've been told I'm not permitted), there are only so many Luke Kuechely's out there.

The only thing Blake rates highly at is tackle numbers because he's in a catch all position. He doesn't even have good speed. He sucks in coverage, he can't handle a RB. No one blows up guards anymore as you say but don't pretend Blake can cover ground. Covering ground involves scraping over blocks and navigating traffic. He doesn't do that well. Even small guys are capable of doing that well if they are athletic. I wanted Devin Bush beyond badly and he's small but he does that exceptionally well. Blake is no where near the top 5 in slipping blocks. Don't ever talk about Urlacher or Kuechley in the vacinity of Martinez. Those are the grail and I swear at Martinez every Sunday. The entire defensive scheme folded in the last year mainly because him and the Ss don't cut it. What an entirely obnoxious and condescending post(not to mention, just completely nonsense). "Don't ever talk about Urlacher or Kuechley in the VICINITY of Martinez? Really? So the whole point just went clear over your head, right? If you want to call Urlacher(who I said was one of the 3-4 best LB'ers in the last few generations) "the grail," great. He still wasn't very good at shedding blockers. And with Kuechly I said it's rare today that you can find a LB'er who excels at everything and then said, "there are only so many Luke Kuechly's out there." So please, so tell me how I've misrepresented either? I also don't care who you swear at every Sunday while watching the game. I see drunks at the bar screaming and swearing at everyone. It doesn't make them any more right than you are. Blake Martinez has graded out at one of the top run defenders in the NFL the last couple years.

What type of system do you think he would be good in then? I don't think the system is the issue with him or his physical ability. I think he's just not smart enough or at least he's not instinctive enough to be a good NFL player. Mark Barron wasn't either. That's how I'd use him. Bucannon isn't as well. Again, that's how I'd use him. Low responsibility, man keys on backs and TEs, fire him through gaps. No thinking, no reading, task oriented. Attack this or pursue. He is dumb, and lacks instinct, so use him as an athletic pawn. Think back to when he played a rolled up SS versus Cincinnati a few years ago. They nearly put him at OLB and he destroyed the LT with sheer speed and athleticism. Had a big game and 2 sacks. That's who he is. It's an athletic talent who doesn't think. You can hide that at buck in this system and you can send him often from that spot. The teams sliding to more of a 5-2 anyway so the OLB will be in more of a contain set to free up the interior to rush. He can get sent from buck often. In the nickle 4-2 look again you could use him as a blitzer or a spy or a guy who simply man locks the RB. Easy jobs that play to his athletic ability and don't require the nuance. Rapp from Washington is much the same guy as well and that's what the Rams took him to do. Replace Barron. It works. You can run a 6'2 220 LB in the base. Especially with Clark and Daniels (Adams) and OLBs who are 275 and set the edge. There's a lot less traffic for LBs in that look but more importantly its harder to turn the edge so pursuit capabilities can be hidden due to delays caused and Ss can fill. If can an just disrupt and pursue from that spot he'll slow down the play enough for Savage and Amos to clean it up. Both Ss should have a monster season tackle wise and the scheme should delay the O enough for those tackles to be reasonably close to the LOS. I was asking Homer because he didn't believe he could play in this system. I repeatedly said he'd be fine in sub packages playing at LB'er, in fact I mentioned both the former safeties you did as a point of reference. I don't believe you use him in your base D, but we run a our base 34 so rarely that it's not a big concern.

I watched Kabengele play parts of 5 or 6 games this year and that's' only because I'm a bandwagon FSU fan from when I was a kid, so I'd watch if I saw them on. He definitely looks like he could play that role of both rim protector and stretch big for us. Only concern with him is that he seems too likely to be gone by the time the Bucks pick as opposed to some of the other guys being mentioned. I don't know how long he is exactly, I just recall them talking about how his wingspan would serve him well at the next level. So another guy that seems like he'd fit in very well with the Bucks. Maybe a Siakam type guy...but a little bigger. They could really use that next to Giannis. One thing that could make a big difference in his long term health and ability to go through the playoff grind is havng another player who can pick up some of the slack on the defensive end during the regular season. If we can keep using him like we did this year, keep his minutes around 33 per game, let him sit 10-15 games a year, I think that'll be good for him. As freakishly as he's built himself, it's unlikely he can withstand the pounding LeBron has taken. I'm pretty amazed LeBron has withstood it. I know very little about the other two you mentioned, but they both look like guys the Bucks could target. Long, athletic, capable of defending multiple positions. Why are there SO many more 6'9 guys with 7'3 wingspans who can defend and are great athletes than just competent PG's? It seemed like there were always 2 or 3 PG's who'd come out who'd be later first-round picks who had been 2-3 year college starters and who knew how to run a team at least at the college level. I'm not seeing any in the Bucks range, but all these freakishly talented bigs.

The type of player we were hoping Thon would turn into. Again, I don't really watch a lot of CBB outside the tourney, but he stood out a little bit last year as being a pretty interesting big. I saw that write up on Amir Hinton. Must have been you that posted it and where they compared him to Wade and said the Bucks were scouting him. Just looking at the little bit they have on him, he looks like the type of guy you'd like to pick and hope he turns into something. The Bucks certainly aren't afraid to take big swings in the draft. They picked a tall skinny guy from Greece's second division a while back and he's looking alright. Although Skip Bayless doesn't think he's got that "killer mentality" because he's European....so I guess we'll have to live with that And even though it didn't work out, I liked that they picked Maker. I assumed with him working with Giannis, he'd improve more, but not everyone is going to be able to match Giannis' work ethic and results.

I'd like to see them buy a second round pick to "stash" this year as well. Either way, it's important that they get someone who can be a good role player this year. The other option would be to use it in order to cut some more salary. Package this 1st and Snell to get a veteran back PG like we did with Hill.

Not a huge loss because we didn't have them. It clearly would have been a HUGE gain for us had we gotten them. Writing it off as no big deal reminds me of when people were talking about how much Herro would fail at Kentucky and then downplaying his talent after he spurred UW for UK. They're good players and the Badgers badly needed an infusion of talent.

What type of system do you think he would be good in then? I don't think the system is the issue with him or his physical ability. I think he's just not smart enough or at least he's not instinctive enough to be a good NFL player.

There are a few guys I really like, but Jontay Porter could be a guy who could develop and REALLY fit in well with the Bucks. I think if he played this year, he could have played himself into being a top 5 pick. A 6'10 big man who has really soft hands, people rave about his BB IQ, he's a great passer and he could be an ideal stretch 5. Not real physical, and he's coming off a torn ACL that caused him to miss his second season at Mizzou. But a torn ACL is a relatively small risk when you're talking about a guy who could become a potential All Star. After that, I've always wanted the Bucks to have a DeAndre Jordan/Clint Capella TYPE player. I don't expect someone we draft at 30 to develop into that, but a big man who can get double-digit rebounds and be a rim protector. Two guys I like who should be available in that area are that Maryland big Fernando and the big from Arkansas Daniel Gafford. The latter really looks like a guy with the potential to turn into a really good player. A would really big nice, especially since we don't have any picks the following year and we still owe another future 1st, but I don't see one in that range that I really watched play and know enough about to have a strong opinion right now. Jontay Porter though...he doesn't come with the big name that his brother did last year...the guy who was the projected #1 pick before ever playing a college game and then fell due to those back issues, but man...he's got the right attributes to develop and fit perfectly with Giannis on the offensive end.