HiAndTight

I agree with you....just like the Lakers and the Knicks spend WAY over the cap and pay the luxury tax, so too may the Red Sox and Yankees(though they've said they don't want to). However, a couple things. 1st-that's more money in our pockets, and they're not going to be able to go out and sign the #1 and #2 FA on the Market like the year they cost us Mike Trout. 2nd-I don't think the other teams, the Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, Rangers, most of THOSE teams are going to be as willing to pay the luxury tax. It's as close to a salary cap as we're going to get and it's going to go a LONG way IMO to evening out everything. And if you are correct in that in 10 years most of the TV money will be shared, that would be an INCREDIBLY amazingly great thing for the Brewers. All this being said, I still don't believe the Brewers slash their payroll to 80 million all the sudden and out of the blue as some have said, and have a lot of ammo to be able to fire off at a guy like Greinke. I think you could put together a very good team, re-sign Greinke and still only end up paying a total of 110 or so with some room for in season moves or aditions.

This sounds more like a deal that would be done in the off season than right now. Jesus...I didn't read far enough. Why on Earth would the D-backs even consider giving up Bauer, Skaggs and Bradley PLUS Upton(two of the pitchers)? I wouldn't trade Bauer for Gallardo, must less PLUS another elite arm, PLUS Justin Upton. This sounds like a trade suggestion that Yankee's fans make on their board about trading for Ryan Braun.

Absolutely. To me it's the furthest you can possibly get from what the Brewers should be doing. If you're going to trade Gallardo, why do it for a guy who's going to be gone just as soon and doesn't change anything? It's ridiculous to me. Maybe an 18 year old Justin Upton, but the point is we're not going to be able to compete in the time period that Yo is here most likely. So if we trade him, it should be for pieces who'll be ready when the young prospects we have no are ready...

Because you were the only one saying that... Obviously I mis-spoke and meant to say underestimating GRIENKE in the 2nd part of that statement, but since you where part of that conversation, you knew exactly what I was saying. Yeah...actually I was for about the first 7 pages of the thread. You see, often times this board forms an opinion as a group. TCO7 agreed with me, but go back and read the first 5-10 pages of the Greinke thread in the transactions thread where I argued with just about everyone about how good Profar was to the point of getting bashed for quoting Keith Law. Just take a look. And then of course everyone started to look a little closer to the deadline and the entire tune changed. But yeah, I was just about the only one saying that initially. But....I did ask a pretty direct quetstion to a direct person that I didn't think was you...so....

I believe that the Brewers could re-sign Greinke in free agency, and I think they could afford the offer that it would take to do so (whether or not this would be wise is another story). And I believe that Greinke has told Lucroy that he would prefer not to play in Boston or New York and I also believe that Greinke may indeed feel that way himself. I also believe that when the offers start coming in, those things matter less and less. Remember, CC also didn't "want" to play in New York, he wanted to play on the West Coast, and he preferred to stay in the NL. Neither of those things happened. I would like to see some examples in the last ten years or so where the biggest FA's in MLB passed up the highest offer to take a supposed better situation. Yes, I understand that he has dealt with anxiety in the past, but every assumption that this would prevent him from playing in a big market or succeeding in one has always been nothing more than that -- an assumption. And I don't think you're going to find anything documented regarding the MLBPA frowning on its biggest free agents taking less money in free agency. I'm sure this isn't an "official" policy, but it was mentioned when CC was considering turning down the Yankees offer as a free agent. Of course, there's not much they can do about it if the player is dead set, but most players don't want to stir the pot in their union -- and it does make economical sense, the top FA sets the market, and if he takes a substantially low offer, it's going to affect the market for others. I just want to once again reiterate that when CC was a FA the Yankees made it clear they'd blow any deal off the table and where not worried about the luxury tax threshold, and where not talking about not bringing back a key contributor because they didn't want to pay the tax on it. Nor did you have the Angels who'd spend 330 million or whatever that they spent last off-season, Boston may be in play. Not sure about their situation salary wise...but teams are starting to creep up on that luxury tax. Just another aspect of the brilliance of Selig. I believe what it will do is the opposite of what many on here think. Instead of contracts continuing to escalate because of Pujols an Prince(remember Arod and the other contracts I mentioned where everyone thought contracts would continue to dramatically increase...). I think it's a slightly different era in baseball these days regarding Free Agency. Just SLIGHTLY more similar to the NBA with that luxury tax. The Yanks may be willing to pay Grienke 150 over 6, even despite his struggles in NYC, but I don't think they'd pay 300 million for the dollar for dollar tax(which is to my understanding how it works). I also thought Selig made it a progressive system in order to keep the mid and small markets more competitive. By the way, the Tigers and their owner desperate to win are a team I think could be very likely to overpay to get him.

And to this I refer people to the Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Chan Ho Park, Darren Dreifort, Albert Belle type days...Mo Vaughn. These things even themselves out. And what's going to do that in THIS particular instance is the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox and other teams not wanting to pay the luxury tax. The Yankees are reportedly going to let Swisher walk so they can avoid the luxury tax. The brilliance of Bud Selig. It's not a salary cap, but it evens out the playing field so some teams can't just throw out a rotation of 5 guys making 160 million dollars. I honestly believe the market of teams that we're going to face in signing Greinke is going to be a LOT different than it's previously been for a pitcher like Grienke. I think the Royals, Rangers(if they don't sign Hamilton), LAA(If they let Haren go or move Santana) LAD, and then not a lot of other big market teams. I think if the Brewers go with the 5/112 with a 6 year option for 24 with a 5 million dollar buyout, we have a very good chance of keeping him. AND-most importantly, I think if we do that, it makes MORE sense financially because it keeps the Brewers as contenders. You can trot out a lineup that 1-8 if they produce like they're capable of is one of the best in the NL, and a rotation with Greinke/Gallardo and then Fiers who I believe is legit(3.50 legit, but hey, maybe even better) and then you have so many talented pitchers like the two we got from LAA, Rogers, Wily,Nelson, Thornburg who could make big impacts, Estrada and Narveson or Burgos.... Bottom line, I believe our lineup is aging and if you don't get Greinke back, you should sell them off. If you do, I think you ride them out because you could be a legit WS contender with all the young pitching to compliment Yo/Greinke, many of whom can be used out of the pen. Hell, we could have a SU/CL combo in Henderson and the Kottaras trade. Or Del Los Santos has a great year next year, Axford bounces back, and Henderson performs well. We certainly have the power arms. And if we go that route, I believe there would be enough excitement there that we would still draw 3 million. Which with the new TV deals would put us in a position to comfortably spend over 100 million. If we lose Greinke, I think the domino impact hurts this team more than any number like WAR could quanfity and we struggle to win 80 and attendance drops off.

I thought that new deal was regional and specific to the Brewers, not having anything to do with any other team. It's MLB's national TV deals with TBS, FOX, and ESPN. The deals currently expire at the end of 2013, and the new deal is supposedly going to double from what it is now. From what I've read, this is one of the reason's some of the large contracts we see are being signed, the teams are already counting on the boost in revenue. That may be true nationally, but the Brewers own FSN North deal is up and will add over 20 million dollars in revenue. If that happens, I think it's unlikely we see the Brewers spending less than 100 million in the next few years. But I've argued about this with people every year for the last several years hearing the small market stuff and people buying the whole spiel about how they could end up in the red though never finding themselves there.

Yeah, every year the Brewers are going to spend 80 million because we're a small market team...and for how many years now have we consistently surpassed that by a significant margin? Now when we've finally got our new TV deal coming in and Mark A and Melvin have made a point of saying they going to try and compete next year, we're going to slash the payroll. Thanks for the lesson in how Mark A made his money, but the Brewers ARE making money, and they've got over 20 million in additional revenue coming in next year. I don't care about their market size as much as I care about their revenue, and those suggesting the Brewers are capable of spending 110-115 aren't suggesting he operate at a loss. Forbers certainly doesn't have them in danger of losing money, and every YEAR we hear how they went out and they "might," end up in the red only to see them raise it again the next year. I predicted 3-4 years ago almost to the dollar what I thought the Brewers would be able to spend. I thought 90-95-100 in the previous three years and now I believe they'll hit 110 or so. I don't know how wise it'll be to do so and I think trading the likes of Aram, Hart, and others, especially coming off big years to save money and get prospects is the way to go if they come up short in their big to sign Greinke(which I still think is plausible given many of the big market teams will be out of the discussion this year). Anyway, this 80 million dollar nonsense should be just cut and pasted year after year. We're making more money from ticket sales, merchandizing, TV, radio, the last two with new contracts kicking in next year. But they'll cut 20 million dollars. And if they were so outrageously over budget, Mark A an Melvin wouldn't have been talking about buying players leading up to the ASB before they hit the skids that put the final nail in the coffin. But I'll bet the Brewers end up with a payroll closer to 115 than to 80 million next year. AGain, despite it not being what I think is best for the team. Oh, and one more thing, can we PLEASE stop with the nonsense about Mark A running businesses? How many times does the guy have to talk about how he doesn't view this the same as his other business ventures before we again compare two things that aren't even remotely comparable?

I REALLY agree with this post. The question is, what can you get for Hart? Based on rumors of teams inquiring about him this off-season, I would have to think you could get either a top 50 prospect at perhaps 3rd, OF, or maybe a power armed reliever and a top 100-ish prospect in the upper levels of a system. And I think I would move Braun to RF next seaon as we know he has the arm and we know Khris Davis does not. I would give Gamel the first crack at 1B. If after 200 PA's he's underwhelming while Morris is killing it, give him a crack at it or give Khris Davis a crack. Aoki is another guy who could have some good trade value given his insanely cheap contract and his abiliity to do so many different things and is going to be 31 with one yet left on his deal. If you can get lets say a power armed reliever for him, someone like Ariel from the Angels with perhaps less question about his command, I'd jump on that. It's allow us to open up two spots in the near future for the players you listed, and Im going to add in there Kentrail Davis who...I just suspect is going to be a guy who continues to imrpove, or improves as the competition does, and of course Logan Schafer. No reason he can't play LF if Gomez DOES in fact continue to hit and sieze that CF position, something that I believe he will do. You touched on it at the end, but Gomez is in the midst of his best season as a pro hitting .257/.310/.468 with a .778 OPS, and AGAIN, I want to reiterate, those numbers go up across the board if he doesn't get injured. You can't quantify how many base hits he loss coming back off the DL, but he spend 3-4 weeks running not a 100 pct and lost at LEAST a couple, if not 6-10 base hits that he normallygets. But even if you protracte that out to a full season, that's a .778 OPS, 18 HR's and arguably the best defensive CF'er in baseball. His growth was severely stunted by bringing him up when he was 20 or whatever. But whatever, it's ancient history now. I love the guy, love how he plays the game, and I CANNOT BELIEVE I'm sitting here this year arguing in his FAVOR in terms of playing time. His aggression which has gotten him into trouble in the past has been reigned in, and his production has shot up. A healthy season in which he plays 130 games next year I could see him going .275/.320/.470/.790 with 25 HR's, 45 SB's and a Gold Glove potentially. I also realize you could drop all of those by .50 points(Which with his D would still be very solid)....and of course wouldn't be considered for a GG because he didn't hit enough HR's...which, lets be honest, is really what the GG award is about.

Why do you do this? It seems as though you take a guy when he's struggling at his absolute worst and the cherry pick a stat here or there and then say, "meh, I don't think he's a prospect." The guy was a prep player, has hit consistently moving up and was hitting very well in AA before struggling as of late. These guys are going to all suffer cold spells and they're all going to have to overcome those in order to become legit big leaguers, but it's almost like you're trying to be a contrarian. You've been a huge Gennett fan earlier in his career, but the more support he picks up, the quicker you are to say, "yeah, but his OPS is this." So did you think differently when the 22 year old 2nd basemen had a .740 OPS with a .309/.344 line in the notoriously difficult BC stadium last year(When you where on board with him being a prospect?) Anyway, this is what the minor leagues are about. Developing. Gennett has hit a serious cold spell and will need to overcome that before moving on to AAA.

Actually, Gamel's lack of throwing accuracy (largely related to footwork/mechanics) is why he didn't stick at 3B. I think I'm one of few, but I actually think that at this point Mat is a 1B-only player at this point, unless he's filling in in emergency-type situations. And fwiw I think he's an asset on defense at 1B. I think he certainly could go out & play 3B/corner OF, I just don't think the results would be pretty. The throw from 3rd base and the throw from RF is also not really worthy of comparsion however. At 3rd base you're involved in a LOT more plays in which you have to uncork the arm and be very accurate. Plus he struggled in two area's. Coming in on balls and sidearming them to first and then when he's had a extra half second to think about the throw which resulted in him getting his footwork screwed up. Braun had a LOT of trouble with the throw to 1st base, but hasn't had much trouble in LF. And what's more, I think with a guy like Gamel, the most he uncorks it, for instance if there is a play at the plate on a single to RF and a guy on 2nd, I don't see his arm being that big of an issue. Point being, he had plenty of arm to play 3rd, it was his footwork that killed him and I just simply don't think that's an issue in RF. Not to compare myself to these guys, but I played C and SS and I had a lot more trouble throwing the ball on a routine play to 1st than throwing a guy out at 2nd. One is something that you think about which can impact release point and another is something that happens so fast, it becomes less of a problem. For the record, I do also fear that Gamel has lost his chance to be an everyday starter and I REALLY think it's a shame. He's spent years stuck behind our 4 top offensive players save for Weeks,and then finally when he's proving he can hang and do well at 1st base, he tears up a knee. To my way of thinking, best case scenario is the Brewers trade Hart THIS off-season and if he keeps up his end of thingsg, hits .280 with 32-34 HR's with that wing span at 1st base, we end up with another very good prospect and perhaps we don't have to watch a team like Pitt pick up Gamel off waivers and watch him become their #4 hittere moving forward.

I'm not arguing with you, but are you just looking at his actual STATS, ie, passed balls, etc..etc...to come to this conclusion, or have you gotten a chance to watch him and are of the position that he can't stay there? If it's the later, then I'll defer to your opinion. If it's the prior, I'm not going to put much stock in a 18 year old kids defensive numbers behind the plate when he was catching HS kids a couple months ago. Not to mention, we don't have great pitching down there making it that much tougher on him. I realize it's a contradiction. "Wow...he's hitting the ball so well and has walked as much as he's K'ed, but I don't care about the bad stuff...." But I think there is something to that. When you draft an 18 year old catcher,if he was a defensive gem and was a great offensive player, you wouldn't have pitcked him 27th. I DID see a lot of people say that his bat could stick in a corner spot coming into the draft though. Just lets not forget, Lucroy's defense was a big question not too long ago.

I'd have to argue against this: Well... fine. So think up another one that would be more realistic. I guess my point is that even if you don't read H&T's full post, or don't agree with everything in there being plausible, it's a fun 'what if' type of thing to examine and there's no reason one simply has to adhere to what he took the time to lay out in the OP. Thank you. Hell, Doug Melvin has obviously done this hismelf when he talked about how they could have Alcides Escobar and Brett Lawrie, a 22 and 24 year old 3rd basemen who has superstar offensive potential while playing very good defense and a SS who has superstar defensive potential with very good offense already. You think he hasn't taken that a step further? He's made comments repeatedly about how it was unfair that the Angels got the 28th pick and we didn't(And I personally take that because of Trout he's particularly annoyed by it). Don't think it's unreasonable with sevearl down years staring us in the face to look at what could have been a team that even IF we traded Prince for Cain would probably cost us 85 million dollars at most giving him another 25-30 to play with in the next couple years to round out the team with luxury pieces like a Grant Balfour or whoever the case may be. So change it up. Lets say that those of us who wanted us to so desperately try and rebuild when we went out and grabbed Marcum and Greinke got our way. Who'd we have right now. What picks would we have had in the ensuing years? Do we end up as a 65 win team that puts Bauer and Bundy within our reach? It's just a speculative fun thread, that's all.

I'd have to argue against this: Clearly you wouldn't HAVE to argue against all this because...well...you DIDN'T argue against all this and it was a bit of a surprise that Tex ended up and swooping Tex out from the Red Sox grasp all the while he was rumored to have serious interest in Washington and Baltimore. But lets take the glasses off the tip of the nose. This isn't a serious post in which I'm basing a SINGLE-PERSON for how things turned out(well, maybe Melvin for Lawrie, but I've done that for about 6 months before he was traded when I in jest said I'd no longer be a fan of the Brewers if they made such a trade). But no, taken individually, every single aspect of what I said is realistic. And if each component is realistic, it's realistic to come to the same overall group of players. Though I'm not really interested in "Having," to argue about anything in this thread. I'm more interested in responses like TLB gave me and those who just had fun speculating about it.

Well there you go. You make the trade Prince for Cain in this scenario, maybe you even make the Bumgarner for Hart trade and you slide in Aoki into RF, Gamel into 1st base, and then start out with a Cain, Gallardo, Bumgarner, Fiers front four! I don't think either is really that realistic, but...none of this belongs in the realm or reality, but rather "what if." And I agree with you, most fans probably agree with what you said. However I was BEGGING the team to do a rebuild because I thought at the time with Escobar, Odorizzi(who could be our #5 starter) and in particular Lawrie was a great group of pitchers. I'll confess to thinking Jefress would develop better. But I was looking forward to those guys with Mat Gamel, Taylor Green who I've long thought is a Mark Loretta type player with more power and a lower batting average type guy. But lets not forget, a HUGE part of this is that we get Mike Trout. I mean, I'm dirving Gomez around this year in his bandwagon in my belief that he should enter next year with a starting positin and see one more time what he can do if he stays healthy and at age 27(next year) can put everything together. I believe, as I've asid several times, I thought he was well on his way to a .275/.320/.450-ish line before his injury which with his normal D would likely have put his WAR somewhere around 4-ish. But he did get hurt. He's also shown enough that he's not the type of raw talent you want to give away and watch him become Carlos Gonzalez elsewhere(though that's pushing it). But regardless, Trout is a better player than Ryan Braun right now at age 20(right now, he still has a lot of work to do to be considered better in the long run, but just playing CF helps a lot). We where rumored to have liked Trout, but we'd have had to pull the trigger on him. Though with the 28th pick, we'd have been able to.

I think this "split vote," thing doesn't come into play in baseball. We're not talking about college football where LeMichael James gets as much play as Trent Richardson because sports writers cover REGIONS more than they cover all 120 FBS teams and where the SEC has an inherent advantage. I reality, I don't see the Harper v Aoki argument. I do see the argument that Fiers should be in there. Aoki, like it or not, did play in a professional baseball league, and a well respected one and dominated in that league and is 30 years old. I think writers will keep that in mind when comparing him to the 19 year old Harper.

I'm starting to begin to buy more into Nolan Ryan and his philosophy on pitching. No pitch counts, no inning limits, pitchers are responsible for telling coaches when they are tired, throwing 300 feet to get warmed up. I don't recall all the particulars, but he's of the belief that pitchers are going to get hurt, but us "babying," them as the old timers would say(I'd say trying to be smart with them) actutally leads to more injuries. Anyway, I wouldn't mess with Fiers until he comes to the Brewers and says his shoulder or arm is starting to tire a little bit. Then fine. Wily, you're up. But when we're looking at how many innings he's pitched, we're only looking at minor league carer numbers. I'm guessing he added more innings in there pitching elsehwere each year(thoguh not certain).

It wasn't All-Star worthy. I'd say I haven't heard a prospect hyped this much since Gregg Jefferies. Remember him? I collected baseball cards for the first time back then, and if you got a 1989 Donruss Jefferies, your month was made. He turned out to be a good player, but hardly the super star he was made out to be. This is, unfortunately, the ESPN generation. You have a lot of stupid people that get 100% of their sports news from ESPN, and accept whatever they're hyping as fact. ESPN knelt down, affixed their lips to Harper's buttocks early, and kept a constant supply of ChapStick on hand. Now, I think what he's doing for an 18/19 year old is impressive. But All Star worthiness isn't graded differently because you're young. You have to produce, and there were players excluded from the NL squad that should have gone before Harper (Greinke for one, though I know pitchers and roster players are different). Harper is going to be a stud one day. The guy can flat out crush the ball. But to watch ESPN, you'd think he was putting up Mike Trout numbers. He's not. Yet ESPN continues to rush Rachel Nichols out out to have a confab with Harper every time he farts, and Mike Trout, who is having arguably the greatest season ever by a true rookie, is getting overlooked. With all due respect, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to attribute this to an "ESPN," thing. ESPN hasn't been the one running the hype machine. You're talking about a kid who made his name in the area all star games, HR derby's hitting 500 foot HR's when he was 15, throwing in the mid 90's, graduated college a year early, and then went to a good Juco School and absolutely dominated older competition as what would have been his Sr year. Scouts have talked repeatedly about how he's got 80 for power, 80 for arm, has good speed, should hit .300 or thereabout and is a very good defensive starter. The hype for Harper was NOT THE result of ESPN. It'd be like saying the hype for LeBron was driven by ESPN. IT's just getting irritating hearing about how ESPN is the bane of all of sports coverage and in this case, it's just insanely untrue. YOu want to blame someone, blame the scouts, baseball america, SI, the GM's, and on and on. And ESPN didn't have anything to do with putting him on the All-Star team, he was voted on it. HOWEVER, he is arguably be one of the biggets name in all of profressional sports right now given his age and the anticipation of his arrival. Oh, and he put up numbers of; .297/.392/.501/.894 with 17 HR's and 26 SB's in just over 100 games playing in HiA and DD as a 18 year old. During which time BASEBALL AMERICA had him as the top prospect in all of baseball. So again, how is this ESPN's doing? Because they're reporting on a story that people are extremely interested in? Well damn them! [sarcasm]Damn that for profit sports entertainment network!![/sarcasm] For the record, Mike Trout...hasn't really gone under the radar. Oh, and finally, lets not forget that he is playing in our Nations Capital in a city that hasn't seen a winner since 1933, and who as of now are the favorites to win the National League this year and matchup with the AL Favorites(TX IMO, but LAA is close....imagine Fox going wild over Harper and Trout in a WS matchup...I can see the Bird-Magic comps starting already).

Now this rather pointless, so if you don't care to join in, by all means, ignore the following post. But lets just say for arguments sake that Mark Texiera wants to go home and play for the O's or Washington, both offering him big money? OR The Red Sox and that he DOESN'T sign at the last minute with the Yankees a team he wasn't even that closely tied to. 1-We get Mike Trout. 2-Lets say that we trade Prince Fielder with 2 years left. Grab a couple prospects. Who isn't important because I don't want to go too far off the rails here. The Brewers decide to completely rebuild. 3-We no longer "go for it," last year and win 96 games, we don't trade for Greinke, or Marcum and we probably end up winning about 65 games the last two years. That places the Brewers at around #4 in 2011 and 6th in 2012. That'd be Dylan Bundy and then the likes of a Kyle Zimmer. But that's too much speculation, so lets ignore those two for a second. 4-We DON'T trade Brett Lawrie, Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi, Lorenzo Cain and Jeremy Jeffress. Again, this isn't including what we'd have gotten for TWO years of Prince, or guys like Dylan Bundy, or Kyle Zimmer, Bubba Starling, Zunino..whoever. Our IF goes Lawrie/Escobar/Weeks/Gamel/Lucroy OF Braun/TROUT/Hart-Gomez/Cain(the latter possibly making Hart expendable and adding to the young talent while clearing cap space). (As we likely don't trade for Morgan or sign Aoki as they aren't moves you make when you're not ready to win). The Brewers DON'T make the playoffs and win 96 games and get to within 2 games of the WS. And I have to admit, when they made the Marcum trade, I was disgusted, when they got Greinke, I thought it was great. And the excitement of coming that close to winning and getting to the WS was a experience I'll never lose. But stay with me. The Brewers save....36 on ARam and upgrade(spending probably only a little more on Lawrie for 6 years). They don't have to wake in a cold sweat thinking about Yuni B playing SS. They don't spend 4.5 million on Gonzalez. They save 27 on Greinke, 15 on Marcum, 8.5 on K-Rod, 30 million on Wolf, 5 million on Moragan. We ALSO don't suffer through watching RR strip away a WS by putting Kotsay in CF totally blowing the game on routine plays in the 1st inning. Imagine a lineup of Trout-CF Escobar-SS Braun-LF Lawrie-3B Hart-RF Weeks-2B Gamel-1B Lucroy-C Especially in the next 2-3 years. A lineup that costs 450K for 5 of the players, 10 million for two of the players and 6.5 for the other two for a total of roughly 28 million dollars. ABSURD talent up and down the lineup. Three potential MVP candidates, two to three GG candidates, a .300 hitting catcher and the weak spots are Weeks and Gamel(and my opinion of Gamel is that he can and will still end up being a 4 WAR player while the other was nearly a 7 WAR player in recent history). Pitching wise, this is infinitely more difficult to project. But you've got Gallardo, Estrada, and a million different things go a million different ways. Hell, we very possibly end up with Bauer and Bundy as prospects to go with for the most part the guys we have now. But we could safely say Gallardo/Fiers/someone at least the caliber of a Daniel Hudson. Your rotation likely costs less than 12-15 million unless you made a big splash.... ----------------------------- Like I said, this is nothing more than a kinda silly revisionist history, but it's all entirely realistic. I was a HUGE advocate of them just blowing everything up when Prince had two years left and we didn't have the pitching to compete and I DID NOT want to get rid of Lawrie as I truly believe Lawrie's a guy who will be Ryan Braun's equal in terms of WAR in the future. But that's a lineup 1-8 that nobody can question UNLESS you're not Gamel fan(I am). And like I said, you could speculate away on the potential draft picks. In addition to our current farm system, sans Jungman, Bradley, the guys selected this year in the 1st round, we'd have two more top 5 picks, potentially even guys like Bundy and Bauer, possibly a elite arm for the two years of Prince we gave away.... Kind of fun(or horribly, horribly painful)n to think about. But the Brewers would now have the best young offense in baseball, they'd likely be drawing a LOT of fans, would have a top5 farm system, though they obviously wouldn't have drawn well as of late. Everyone talks about the Brewers building like the Rays, well, lets go back in history to 2009 and pretend we actually did that. Or if Biz wants to complain about how pointless this is, then by all means, do that. Just trying to play a little "what if," game here. Gallardo, Bauer, Bundy, Nelson, Peralta, Thornburg, Fiers, Estrada, and given the prospects we'd have gotten for Prince, or the draft pick we'd have gotten this year(which we'd have gotten in '10 which could well have been a guy like Archie Bradley.... Now I'm not complaining about the route we took with the Grienke/Gallardo trades, and we have a nice system right now, should end up with a good pick next year, AND we very well should end up with a farm system rated in the top 5-10 this year with what still IS a pretty good group of positional players at the big league level. I'm just again trying to have some fun and discuss who we could have gotten....

He should. He's the best player in the league. Just imagine what he'll be like when he hits his prime. I remember when people said that about Braun, when he was a rookie, having the best rookie season ever. Trout is going to be an awesome player for a long time, but I think we have to be careful when projecting him to be even better. I'm not saying that he can't be, I'm just saying..... You do. It'd be hard for him to get much better. He's hit 19 Hr's and they were talking about him being a 25-30 HR a year guy. What if he ACTUALLY develops into a 45 a year HR hitter? Even 40. A guy who could challenge to be a 40/40 guy year in and year out, hit .330-350, steal 50-60 bases and is a gold glove CF'er. Seriously? I want DNA tests done?

I'm still a little bit in awe of how this season has gone. I speculated we needed a "Cal Eldred," type rookie performance to get into the playoffs this year(well, win the division). We've gotten that and we STILL ended up a team 8 games under .500. I suggested that Fiers MIGHT give us that Eldred experience just based on pure luck and then fade away kinda like Eldred did with a couple of decent seasons and then not much. I've revised my thoughts on that as he just might be the real deal. If Shawn Marcum can produce like he can with a 86-87 MPH fastball, then why can't Fiers do the same the way he hits the ball and with his secondary pitches which are as good as Marcum's. Nasty curve, nice cutter or 2 seamer..whatever it is, and a solid change. His fastball hits 90-92 on it's best day, but is a plus fastball with how he throws it, how he hides it, spots it and how he keeps you off balance with it. If he can get 10 more starts and finish with a 2.00 ERA that's 2/3rds of a season with an ERA under 2.00. Now at some point I'd expect the 4 IP 6 ER outing, but until I see it, he has to be at least in the discussion. Aoki may deserve to be based on his play, but A-other teams don't see the small things he does, nor do the writers and he's a 30 year old. Unless a Japenese player comes over and REALLY dominates, or does it at a younger age like Yu, I think he really has to outperform the field to win it. Like Ichiro.

He's amazing for his age and for what people pretty much assume he will become, ie, Brett Lawrie. But based on production, give me a single argument for him being on the team over Hart for example(not that HE'S worthy of a All-Star spot per say as I didn't really pay that close of attention based on merit). But his all-star selection was based on being Bryce Harper the name, and the potential obviously. Which is what sorta has me questioning the Strausburg situation. I could see Harper being a Trout like player next year, but he's been miles away this year. Come to think of it, even with is projections, he was suppose to be a very good RF'er who hit 40 HR's a year(80 Power) with some 50's sprinkled in if all goes right, and with his violent hack, maybe a .300 hitter who draws a lot of walks. So a .300/.420/.600 hitter who's a very good RF'er. I don't know, I'd still take Trout over him in CF. A guy who can steal 50-60 bags, play GG CF, can hit 25-30 HR's, hit .330-ish in some years(the type of years that Harper hits 50 HR's). I still wholeheartedly believe that in 5 years the 5 best position prospects very well could be Trout(who could be ours and I'll never get over that), Harper, Profar, Lawrie and Tulo(might be older for the group, but I think he'll be a superstar still and a first ballot type guy at that point.

Now it's been just a week, but our future game double play combo looks exceptionally well. The Huntsville team may not have the look of the LaPorta, Brantley, Salome group a few years ago, but I think with our current big league club, these guys may fit in even better. Morris could be a legit 1st basemen at the big league level. Segura is hitting .455 and appears to be everything advertised. Hitting .455, 2 SB's, hitting for doubles. He's our top prospect now and could easily be our starting SS for the next 10 or so years. Gennett just keeps hitting his way up the organizational chain. Always been a fan of mine, but he just keeps getting the most out of his abilities. Hunter Morris is breaking records at AA hitting. .922 OPS, 20 HR's, .310 BA, getting his OBP up into the mid .360's...depending on if we could get Greinke back, Morris just may be taking over 1st base for Corey Hart next year(though I implore the Brewers to give Gamel another chance less we watch him hit .300/.365/.450 while playing stellar D at 1st base. Maybe a utility role for him for another year would be ideal for the short term and then have him take over 1st base, OR we could move Gamel to RF sell high on Aoki. I'm determined to give Gomez a full year in CF as I truly believe he's a game changer. His talent isn't paralleled by anyone in the organization. And Aoki could really help a team next year. Maybe around the break. This is forgetting about our SS turned CF'er in Josh Prince who's thriving in his first role in AA wit a .365 OPB and playing fantastic defense. With his speed and with Segura's speed. we should be able to take the extra base at will in the future. And then there is Lee Haydel the guy who just keeps hitting .300+ and turning a single into a double. I'm curious if he could be a #5 OF in the future. He's got the D, can hit for average and can snag a base at aill, or if he's just a guy destined to get a few AB's at the big league level in the future without really sticking. Still, with Morris, a legit 1st basemen in the future, Gennett, proving to be a poor man' Pedroia, but that's still pretty impressive, and then Segura, a SS who was the centerpiece in the Greinke trade. And then the darkhorse in Kentrail Davis a guy I believe is destined to improve as he moves up through the system. And this is just AA....these guys, unlike the former group of prospects don't have to shoulder the weight themselves. Throw in a plethora of talent at the other levels' Khris Davis just absolutely destroying the ball in AAA and possibly forcing Braun over to RF. But he's hitting as well as just about any other prospect we've had in some time. Logan Schafer still has that question mark. Second team starter, or legit CF prospect who can chase 'em down, hit for average and hit for power. Caleb Gindl and Taylor Green are still two guys I believe in. HiA-Always tough to tell here, but we have some talent there. Jason Rogers is the type of guy that's putting up numbers, but old for his age and with that sea breeze hard to get any read on their numbers. LoA- The shine is coming of Roenicke a bit(gee, where have we heard that before). But he's still hitting .300 and looks to be more than just a courtesy pick by the Brewers. Cameron Garfield, the real story so far this year. He was a good defensive catcher coming out, but he's hitting the ball after missing much of last year. Yadiel Rivera-A ultra toolsy SS who's got some pop, and great range at SS, but who hasn't yet hit for power or get the plate discipline. If that comes, he and the next guy; Orlando Arcia-A 17 year old who's missing the entire year due to injury could really make things interesting. Note to Brewers-Just don't trade away both within one year if they're among the best in the league at their position and then go with a Yuni Betancourt type at short. But as exciting as AA and to a lesser extent AAA is some of the younger guys at rookie level. Clint Coultier-Making the Brewers brass look good so far. The kid's ANOTHER catcher, hitting for power, average and walking. 20 BB/21 K's, .298/.419 and he's starting to show some power. Jose Pena-Another 19 year old with a .930 OPS hitting well over .300 and a 5 tool player. In Helena, it looks like the Brewers hit on yet another late round pick in McFarland who's raking at AA in Chris McFarland, another guy we drafted in the 16th-17th round and stole from FSU that's tearing it up. Alfredo Rodriguez, a SS hitting .300... That's not including guys like Max Walla and other guys with rocky starts who have come a long ways. We may or may not have superstars... My guess is that Arcia is a guy who could be a superstar; McFarland could be a elite 2nd basemen. Rivera has to improve his plate discipline a great deal, but he's got all the skills to play SS and he's got some power in his bat and is still young. Michael Reed's a 5 tool young guy who's bounced all over the place. And then the biggest potential power hitter, Roache who has yet to play after hitting 30 bombs as a Soph leading the nation, and Haniger who's missed some time. So my question now is, despite missing several guys, do you still consider this team void of positional prospect, or simply a team LOADED in the lower levels with talented position players and filled in the upper levels with pitching prospects. And this is way too early, but while I think Arcia could turn into a star as could McFarland....I think Coultier could be the steal of this draft. A HS kid this young who has this good of an understanding of the strike zone and the type of power he shows as a catcher is incredibly impressive. Anyway, you never know until a guy hits the big leagues obvious, ask Taylor Green. But I still think Mat Gamel is a guy who's going to lead the next wave one way or another. Either by playing all over the place next year or by taking back 1st base next year as I still believe he's a 4 WAR player. In fact, I think moving Hart and then putting Gamel into 1st base could net us another NICE prospect and could help a legit .300 hitter settle into his role for the next 7-8 years as he should have this year when he got out to a .280/.350 start while playing very good defense. And trading Hart coming off a .280/.30 HR season could be really valuable. Still, bottom line, until these guys in the lower levels really start to move up and do something at the upper levels, it won't mean much, but it's sure as hell nice to see our 1st round C have such a great approach at the plate and carry a .420 OBP while hitting .300(rounding up a couple points). WATCH OUT LUC!

Unlikely, but not unrealistic. He reminds me a bit of Tim Hudson who was a Ace for a sustained period of time. He can throw his fastball at 93-94 and that sinker at 91-92 and has a very effective slider. The problem with this discussion is that you're talking about trading Hart, and with a GB pitcher, I really love Hart at 1st base as he is entering Derek Lee territory IMO in saving his IF errors. He just gives us such a huge target as opposed to Prince. I'd love to see him pitch to an IF of Aram(just going off the eye test, but he's a tremendously underrated 3rd basemen IMO who's underrated by the metrics), Segura(who sounds like he has the range and a very strong arm), Weeks who has improved himself to the point of being a very solid 2nd basemen and Corey Hart who makes those three just that much bettter.

I'm a Fiers fan to the hilt, but given the chance, I'd go with Justin Masterson next year over Mike Fiers...certainly over Wolf, Estrada and Rogers. He IS just a slight improvement in an area or two from being a legit #2. And if you can't have an ace, you need a few #2's in order to really compete and win.