HiAndTight

Must we do this with everyone? Although, I'm sure RR is already one step ahead of us here. I think when we as posters are adding "y" and "ie" on the end of the players names, it is meant as sarcasm, directed at RR's cute little disgustingly creepy nicknames... This is a shot at RR? I think this is a shot at baseball in general. This is how all managers talk(hyperbole obviously, but most of them). Yost used to get made fun of for it, and I hear every team doing the exact same thing with their players....and the players themselves do the same thing. Nobody ever says a players actual name. If you can add the "ie," or "y" to it,you do. Otherwise you cut it short. Luke(for Lucroy...ect..etc..etc...). Just another one of baseball's silly little quirks. And I fully admit it does sound creepy to hear a guy in his mid 50's call a 20 year old kid Thorny or something to that affect, but that's the game we all love!

Respectfully, I think this is asinine. Again, I'm very honestly not trying to come off as a jerk here, but to say this is or isn't a playoff team if they get hot and go on a run is ridiculous in my opinion. They haven't PLAYED like a playoff team early, but neither have SEVERAL of the teams that have been in the WS and won it over the last decade. If you have a rotation of Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum coming back, Fiers, Estrada and Wolf...whoever is in there. A BP that sees Axford and K-Rod pitch like they've pitched most of their career prior to this year, same with Veras get the ship righted, and Thornburg can come up and provide a big boost out of the pen, then they've EASILY got the pitching potential to put it together. Offensively, you're already starting to see this team turn it around. Weeks has been hot as of late, Braun's having a BETTER year than before, Aoki is performing at very high level and has been an exceptional leadoff hitter. Ramirez is doing what he always does, Lucroy coming back, and Maldonado provide an exceptional catching tandem.... And if they can pick up a SS they want to roll the dice on for cheap, this team absolutely CAN be a playoff team. And with Hart at first, our IF defense seems night and day different. This team has not PLAYED like a playoff team, but they've absolutely got the potential. They need the players struggling a great deal to turn it around, and that's happening for the most part, and they need a couple X factors. Fiers has turned into one, and if he can keep doing what he's doing or close to it, we're in great shape, and if Thornburg can come up and cut his teeth out of the pen and give us a similar upgrade, there's no reason at all we can't be a playoff team. And a dangerous one once we get in. Now there is a HUGE gap from potential to production, and this team has to prove itself before it gets lumped in with the Marlins from '02(I think), the Rockies from a few years ago, the 83 win Cardinals, the couple A's teams from the early 2000's, the Giants from a couple of years ago, all teams that I'm sure had fans saying, "this is NOT a playoff team." Just just strictly with the POTENTIAL they have on the mound, and the big bats they've got, there is no QUESTION they're a team that could go on a run and be a playoff team. ***I will say I don't want to go into the trade deadline where we are right now and hope that those things fall into place, but wishing we don't do well so we don't try to add a player to help us in what is shaping up to potentially be the last potential shot we're going to have in a VERY long time...is just beyond foolish to me. Why the heck WOULDN'T we want them to get back into the race out of the break? So we can get a head start on the 75 win teams once we lose our Free Agents and become disinterested in the big league club? It's very much a long shot this team manages to do anything meaningful this year. But they certainly have a team capable of going from 5 under to 5 over in a two week period, and the Pirates are NOT a great team, nor are the Reds. Nor where the Cardinals who overcame a what, 9 game deficit last year to make the playoffs in the last MONTH! I remember reading their board on ESPN.com about how they weren't a playoff team either. Lets give them a couple weeks vs the teams they're contending with, give Thornburg and Fiers a shot to be those X-factors just about every team needs to make it to the WS and THEN declare definitively we are not a playoff team.

I'm not past the point of still holding out hope for this season. If we come out of the break hot, and our relievers throw like they're capable of, and perhaps we throw in a Thornburg and Peralta toward the end of the year to get their feet wet as relievers, power armed relievers like Wainwright did on their 83 win WS team where he got into the later part of the season and dominated helping them win the division and was great in the post-season. We don't need that, but we could certainly use them to help supplement Ax, K-rod and Veras all three of whom I believe will come around, Loe who I think should be the 5th/6th guy on the pen, and if we do go on a streak, we could trade for a loogy. Hell, if we go on a streak and the Marlins struggle, Choate is ideal. As are MANY others. Jed Bradley could even step into a loogy role(haven't looked at his splits) though that seems ridiculous. It is extremely difficult to build a solid, let alone great, pitching staff in MLB. Losing that many years of Gallardo would hurt, but then again as HiAndTight points out, that is precisely why trading Gallardo would bring us back players of value. In a lot of ways, it is a great idea in theory, however in reality there are a few perhaps insurmountable challenges: EXACTLY. You can't rebuild your team by trading away guys without a ton of value. And again, I'm simply looking at what our future looks like with Gallardo through his FA years. Nothing. Not even close to a contender UNLESS we find magic and Fiers continues to pitch like a #2, Thornburg turns into a 1/2 like Gallardo, Nelson turns into a #2, Peralta a #3, and Jugnman/Bradley also turn into middle of the rotation type of starters. If the pitching GODS all decide to grace us with every pitcher pitching to his absolute ceiling in the next couple years and you throw in Gallardo, Rogers becomes a 8th inning guy, Manzanillo and Wooten become important parts of the pen and any left handed reliever develops, then I suppose we could manage to become not only relevant, but actually succeed and contend. Still need a SS, but still... Instead, and this is the MOST important part, we're in the most dangerous place this franchise has been in a long time. If they go out and spend what they can afford THIS YEAR(2013, 115-118) there is a very good chance we go down in flames, are locked into Suppan type deals(save for maybe a 3 year 33 million dollar deal for Edwin Jackson) and I hate to use Suppan, but that's the type of pitcher we're getting for what we can afford or Marcum who makes my arm hurt watching him pitching and will almost certainly not make it 4 years. I just fear that we'll replace the Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod, Wolf money the last players on the market we go after who will become terrible deals we end up waiting to expire while winning 65-70 games. -Apologies for the several posts in a row, just trying to respond to each point.

First of all, let me reiterate how much disdain I have for the statement, "prospects that may or may not work out." Where do you think all the great players in the game come from? Now if you're talking about draft picks, there is a pretty high liklihood that those picks may not work out. However when you're drafting players who have played for 3-4 years in the minor leagues and have performed at a high level, THAT'S how you rebuild a team. And suicide is to spend 110-115 million dollars on a team that doesn't have a chance to compete and is a 75 win team. Suicide to me is basically becoming one of those middling teams that doesn't get younger, and instead tries to hang on hoping they get lucky every year, lacking the talent to actually compete, and keep spending the money on overpriced veterans hoping they can fill;unfillable positions, such as the spot left behind by Greinke. Trading Gallardo gives us the ability to get either 1 GREAT elite prospect and 2 very good prospects. Not to mention the fact that if we lose Gallardo, we're going to spend the last 3 years of his career here as a 65-75 win team with little to no chance to compete anyway. And I think the inteliligent fans won't revolt, and what fans want is a winner. To me, this is one of the quickest ways to get back to a winner. Just a quick scenario. Lets say we trade Greinke+Axfrod to a team like the Tigers and pick up a Jacob Turner and Nick Castenallos. Two players who are close to major league ready and are VERY likely to be good players. Gallardo for a Jurickson Purfar, the best minor league SS in the game and very possibly a guy who'll be the best SS in the game in as little as 2-3-4 years. Hart to a team looking for a bat(which is a HUGE list) for a top pitching prospect. Aram-We eat 10 million making the rest of his deal a bit of a bargain and get perhaps another top 50 prospect....from a team like the the Dodgers for Example. Evoldi for Hart should be enough for LAD. Suicide is waiting too long to move these players. Waiting until Gallardo has a year left on his deal and we're a basement dweller. Suicide is spending 100+ million on a team that can't compete. Suicide has nothing to do with the fans if your a basaeball GM, it has to do with winning. Suicide is wasting Braun's prime years by not putting a competitive team on the field. Imagine infusing Profar, Castenellos, top 100 Of'er, Jacob Turner, Evoldi. None of which are all that unlikely given this years sellers market and the teams we'd be dealing with and their desire to add that "final piece." And I've left off several players who are guys who could easily get players in return. And realistically, we could see each and everyone of those players in the big leagues next year. Turner is like a Porcello with better K potential and a guy who projects to be an even better GB pitcher. Profar I've already stated time and time again, but he could be a leadoff hitter who could be a GG, steal 40 bags, hit 20 HR's, and put up a .300/.385/.450 line at his peak. Castenellos is hitting near .400 in A+ and AA ball right now. And Evoldi has the upside of a #2/3 pitcher. And these are just names that have been thrown around, and we still have players who have trade value, and a wave of prospects on their way. Add in the draft class from this year, the prospects already in our system, Lucroy, Braun, Gamel, Fiers, Thornburg, Nelson, Bradley, Jungman, Gennett...etc..etc... So, in my opinion, suicide is going forward with a team that doesn't have the ability to compete, overspending, and trying to MAYBE eek out a .500 record when we have several young arms coming up and almost NOTHING behind that. By the way, it wasn't suicide for the Marlins who did the exact same thing who ended up with a WS team and pitchers like Josh Beckett, AJ Burnett, the ability to sign Miguel Cabrera, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Mike Lowell, Derek Lee and several others all the result of their rebulding process. Of course re-signing Greinke changes everything and gives us a chance to compete in the near future.

Here's the bulk of the roster that we have signed for next year along with a round number projection of their WAR: Braun - 6 Gomez - 4 Gamel - 4 Hart - 3 Weeks - 3 Ramirez - 3 Lucroy - 3 Gallardo - 3 Fiers - 2 That's 31 WAR right there. Add that to the 43 wins a replacement level team would theoritecally win and we're at about 74 wins if the rest of our team is only replacement level (which is pretty difficult replacement level is very bad). The rest of our players (including those who we get in free agency) would only have to average about .6 WAR for us to be a mid-80's win team. We still do have a good core of players that, with a couple moves, could be right in the playoff race again next year. Now if you get blown away on a trade offer for Hart or Gallardo, then go for it, but I don't think we're in a situation where our only choices are to sign Greinke or blow up the entire roster. And you totally, 100 pct ignored my question. I said that I think that Gomez(who was really having a great year, and I still believe has improved a great deal and changed his fundamental approach, especially before his injury when he was hitting .280) has the POTENTIAL to be a 3 WAR player, and that I still believe Gamel could be a 3-4 WAR player. Ie, don't give up on them. So I'm STILL waiting on an explanation as to how the heck you come to the conclusion that I'm "basically saying," the rest of our lineup, "Hart, Ramirez, Weeks," are 0 WAR type players? Of course you're under the impression that WAR is to be A-taken literally, as in if a player is worth 3.5 WAR he adds 3.5 wins to your team...which I think is ridiculous and literally impossible to quantify and used as a way to evaluate players vs their peers by taking into account a level playing field, ie, hitting 40 HR's in GABP or in Citizens is different than Petco. So it helps us evalutate players in different scenarios. I mean, do you HONESTLY believe if you have a 3 WAR player and you take him out of the lineup, that team will lose 3 more games by replacing him by a 0 WAR player? Anyway, you, in your attempt to be distort my post, missed several key factors. -I said that I think both still have the POTENTIAL. Gomez has already posted a season with a WAR near 3.0 and I believe he's a different hitter, and has proven to be so. In fact, without his injury this year, I think he'd be around 1.5 WAR right now. He's rated as negative defensively right now which is absurd, and he lost a great deal of hits coming off his hammy injury.... I've been extremely bullish on Gomez in which I thought he was a total waste before this year and beyond fixing. I've changed my opinion. With regard to Gamel, again, BOTH are 26 years old, and I'm still very confident in his ability. It is a big question as to what they do with him next year. Hart looks so good at 1st I can't see him moving. I suppose it depends on if we sell or not. If we do, with the total lack of bats on the market and it being a extreme sellers market, Hart may bring back a surprisingly good prospect in return. Anyway, you've still done absolutely NOTHING to explain how you created this straw man argument that I must believe Aram, Weeks, Hart and the rest of the guys in our lineup are 0 WAR guys...which is basically just a complete fabrication of what I actually said.

Don't you think Gallardo would have more trade value than Greinke simply because of all the years of control left on his contract? Of course. But I don't think we can actually get Profar for just Greinke, and thought moreso when Ax was throwing the ball extremely well that he could be a guy we could add to the deal. Grienke+Axford for Profar(actually I started with K-Rod, but after a second thought I didn't think that'd do it even though people STILL argued that WE should be getting the prospect in return, not Texas.

Yeah, but it's not next year, and THIS year we still have Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and a 106 million dollar payroll. I would say putting up a 2.29 ERA on a team that thus far hasn't been competitive is a waste. You can always take a seaon with no expectations and see what a guy has which is what we could and can do for next year. But for this year to have a guy have one of those freak rookie seaons where a guy catches the league maybe a little off guard and to put up an "Eldred," type season as I've referred to it all year(As in we that X-factor from the minors) I think it's a lttle waste. But if the Brewers aren't winning and in the race, the one thing that makes them truly fun to watch is their prospects. So there's that. And I still haven't given up yet. We have a chance as I stated to finish this half very strong and then we face the teams in front of us coming out of the break. If Rickie keeps it going, Luc gets back soon, and we keep pitching, rotation and the pen which until yesterday had looked good, I still think we're as good as the other teams in the race.

Got me. I haven't seen anyone hating on Fiers. What is there to hate on about a 22nd round pick who you expected alost nothing from and yet who is performing at an exceptionally high level right now. And while I' not holding my breath....he IS slowly helping the Brewers get back into this race a little bit. We're on a 4 game winning streak with a great chance to push that to 5. We're 4 under with a great chance to get to 3 under as of now up 5-1 vs the Fish, and we finish the 1st half with 3 vs Houston with Greinke, Yo and Estrada vs Houston. I'm not getting too excited yet obviously, but Pitt is the team in 1st place and I still have no confidence they're much different than recent years, and te Reds are far from a flawless team. If Fiers can put together another gem tomorrow, we have a realistic shot at going into the break 1 over .500 and 4-5 back. Either way, anyone who is hating on Fiers and I haven't seen anyone doing so, but they're an idiot. He's went out there, thrown strikes and pitched exceptionally well keeping hitters totally off-balance. As to the question if it will continue, your guess is as good as mine, but what I do know is that he's in the big leagues right now when that was a long shot and he's pitching great which was an even longer shot.

It seemed like he was pretty upset with us when he left town. Not sure why. Well, actually I know why, it was because of the fact that we didn't offer him a contract extension during the season, but we can hardly be blamed since he was coming off several injury plagued seasons. But it should have been obvious why. We did offer him nearly 14-15 million in arbitration knowing full well that he was injured after 2008 and he turned us down. Anyway, I hope he has some success. I'd have loved to see him in Milwaukee, but I thought I remembered he grew up a Braves fan, and wanted to pitch down in Texas or Atlanta. In the South in either event. For a two pitch pitcher though, he sure was dominant at times.

Ahhh....I remember that argument. Incidentally, I recall another argument from a guy who previously posted on this board, ESPN, and other message boards who argued that 3 run HR's or GS's are "Ralley Killers," because you have to start all over again and you're more likely to score more than 4 runs with the bases loaded if you hit a single rather than a HR because you keep the pressure on the pitcher. Dead serious argument. I've never been so perplexed by a Brewers fan before.

That's absolutely fair. I agreed with you when you initially wrote that, and then I did a quick look at his stats, and his HR's, OBP, SLG and then obviouly OPS are all far lower than I thought when you mentioned that. For my money, the greatest OF'er of all time is an argument between Williams and Ruth, and Mays, Aaron and Mantle fall in all a pretty clear full tier below them(while still being among the top 10 or so greatest position players of all time). Clemente also obviously played in a completely different offensive era. He'd probably have been a 30+HR a year guy if he played in today's stadiums with 30 teams and new stadiums. Either way, that arm was simply legandary and if you hit .340 for your career, you're in an elite group even if you didn't walk much. The thing about Braun and his swing though, is while he swings at a lot of pitches out of the zone, a lot of the time, he swings at pitches out of the zone that he can do something with. He swings at those pitches on the lower outside corner of the zone where he drill the ball over the RF wall unlike anyone playing today IMO. You can't really use a shift vs him. Heck, I think I've seen him hit more balls out of the park that were off the plate low and away than he hit right down the middle this year. He's also got a just amazing ability to adjust DURING his swing. They say look fastball, adjust to off speed. Yeah, that's real easy to do. I think everyone should go to a batting cage and try to do that just once. I played and was a pretty good hitter for a team ranked 1st in state losing only to the eventual state champs in the sectional finals 3-2 after a 2 run walk off in the bottom of the 7th. So I thought I could hit. I took a few of my Nephews to a batting cage. I decided to jump in. I wanted to just SEE some sliders and fastballs mixed in. I told the person controlling it to switch it up, fastballs at 75 which I thought was easy and the sliders at 65. First couple fastballs, no problem. First slider...it bounced and my bat was probably about 2 feet away from where the ball ended up. After that, I couldn't touch a easy fastball or a slider. I had my nephews just giggling, but it's an experiance I think baseball fans should have. It gives you a bit of perspective as to why a guy can swing at a ball that bounces 2 feet outside, and it can give you that much more respect for a guy like Braun who can adjust his swing and sit back long enough to hammer any pitch. I'm not trying to compare myself to them obviously, but even at what is slower than batting practice for those guys, it just made me even more in amazement as to what these guys truly are capable of. And Braun moreso than almost any of them. Now when I see Ryan Braun up there vs a reliever who throws 96 and comes back with an 86 MPH slider, or a 12-6 and he can adjust and not only foul it off, but really do something with it....I'm just in awe. So it's his swing which is absolutely a thing of beauty, but it's his bat control which is just off the charts. He's taking his walks at almost a 10 pct rate, so he's not just a hacker. He's not Clemente who was at about 6 pct or Ichiro who's at an identical 6.1 pct, but is closer to 4-5 the last few years. He's taking his walks. He's just capable of hitting the balls that aren't in the strikezone. ------One last thing, remember when some(myself to some degree included) where concerened that he wasn't the power hitter he initially showed as his ISO dropped the first 4 years of his careeer after his historic .310 ISO rookie season? He's at .295 right now, and has nearly doubled his walk rate. The guy is actually getting better. 7.8 WAR last year, 4.0 at the midpoint this year...I doubt he'll ever touch Yount's 82 season as that was driven by unusually high defensive ratings, but he can sure come close.

If we could have gotten Prince for the same PRICE as Braun, it's not nearly the ridiculous notion you suggest. I'll take Braun, but just because Prince is gone, lets not dismiss how great he was and continues to be. However we got 8 incredibly cheap years of Braun saving.......hell..I don't know, 100 million? I believe we bought out 3 years of FA, and with an MVP, ROY, and 3rd place finish in another year in MVP voting under his belt, his arbitration number would have gone through the roof. He may have been a Lincecum type scenario setting arbitration records. So MAYBE we saved 100 million with athat 8 year deal from what he COULD have gotten? According to Baseballreference.com, he's getting paid 6 million this year, 8.5 next year when he'd have been a FA, 10 and 12 million in '14 and '15. What the hell would he have been getting paid if he was a FA in those years? He'd have been signed to a Prince like deal, if not more for what is a perceived duribility issue for Prince(That's just because he's big) and Braun's speed and probability that he'll age well. Forgetting that not only would he have gotten 24-25(IMO) in his first couple FA years, but it'd have taken a 10 year deal to sign him. And then you factor in we got him for another 5 years at 21 million per year...but it's not really 20 million per year. I think it's 16 a couple years and 18 the last couple...maybe? Anyway, it's ridiculously underpriced for him in TODAY'S economics, much less what they will be in 2020, and even LESS when you consider that the deferred salary, while it'll suck in 2030 when we still owe him money and he's not playing, I hardly expect a Brewers fan to complain about it. It'd be like if we signed Molitor to an extension and were still "stuck," paying him 250K for 10 years until 2005. To keep a player like that around..you don't really complain about the peanuts you're paying him while you're waiting for his induction into the HOF. We're not talking about Bobby Bonilla here. And I BELIEVE, please someone correct me if any of this is wrong as it's sorta just buckshot and off the top of my head, but the deferred money is interest FREE. Now if we'd have gotten Prince to a contract like that, and Braun would have left, we'd be sitting here and saying, "yeah, that sucks, but we signed Prince to a ridiculously great deal," and probably would have justified it by saying we didn't have a 1B to replace Prince, but with Schafer, Gindl and how much easier it is to sign OF'ers...blah..blah..blah." So I'll just be thrilled with Braun's deal and the fact that we started with Prince and Braun and we probably paid about half price in total to keep one of the two potential future HOF'ers.

How on earth does it suggest anything even similar to that? I said that I still believe that Gamel is capable of being a 3-4 WAR player despite his injury and being blocked for several years by all-stars. And I stated that I thought Gomez had turned a corner, a player who's already put up a 2.6 WAR despite a terrible offensive season at age 22, and a 2.0 WAR, again being the offensive player he's been. This year with his injury, fangraphs has him having by FAR his worst season, was hitting and having the best year of his career until his injury. We're talking about two extremely talented physical players who are 26 years old and I said they could potentially turn into 3 to 4 WAR players. So how in the world does that suggest that I think Ramirez, Hart and the rest of our lineup are 0 WAR players. Nor do I see where I said we can just spend money on a SS and a Pitcher, just two random ones and be a WS team next year. Please explain.

How on earth does it suggest anything even similar to that? I said that I still believe that Gamel is capable of being a 3-4 WAR player despite his injury and being blocked for several years by all-stars. And I stated that I thought Gomez had turned a corner, a player who's already put up a 2.6 WAR despite a terrible offensive season at age 22, and a 2.0 WAR, again being the offensive player he's been. This year with his injury, fangraphs has him having by FAR his worst season, was hitting and having the best year of his career until his injury. We're talking about two extremely talented physical players who are 26 years old and I said they could potentially turn into 3 to 4 WAR players. So how in the world does that suggest that I think Ramirez, Hart and the rest of our lineup are 0 WAR players. Nor do I see where I said we can just spend money on a SS and a Pitcher, just two random ones and be a WS team next year. Please explain.

How on earth does it suggest anything even similar to that? I said that I still believe that Gamel is capable of being a 3-4 WAR player despite his injury and being blocked for several years by all-stars. And I stated that I thought Gomez had turned a corner, a player who's already put up a 2.6 WAR despite a terrible offensive season at age 22, and a 2.0 WAR, again being the offensive player he's been. This year with his injury, fangraphs has him having by FAR his worst season, was hitting and having the best year of his career until his injury. We're talking about two extremely talented physical players who are 26 years old and I said they could potentially turn into 3 to 4 WAR players. So how in the world does that suggest that I think Ramirez, Hart and the rest of our lineup are 0 WAR players. Nor do I see where I said we can just spend money on a SS and a Pitcher, just two random ones and be a WS team next year. Please explain.

I was going to say the same thing. You make a lot of good points but a lot is repetitive and some of it just seems like unfiltered rambling off the top of your head, like you're just thinking aloud. Just curious but do you work 3rd shift or something? It seems like a lot of your posts are at 2, 3, 4 am so maybe you're just tired which causes you to ramble? Yeah....I got the point from the previous poster. I think the "rambling," was just kinda being a....well...fill in the blank. Anyway, no, I'm self employed...or rather have self sustaining income, so some days I don't have to work and am a bit of an insomniac.

I would trade Gallardo for Profar, but some have said that I'm underestimating Greinke by suggesting Profar for Greinke straight up. So I didn't even want to get into the Gallardo for Profar argument.

That's almost literally NEVER been the situation under Attansio. Especially for a guy the price of Izturis. Attansio is spending 106 million on this team to compete this year, and you think a few hundred K may be stopping the Brewers from improving their team? We're almost at the halfway point. Bianchi getting called up saves the Brewers how much money? 225K?

I think the exact same thing(as I'm guessing so do other Brewers fans). I THOUGHT after the injuries to Gamel, Gonzalez and Narveson, that the only way we'd have a chance this year is if we got a "Cal Eldred," type performance. Now we're getting that, but of course I thought perhaps Weeks would get it going a lot faster, and this lineup would produce more, AND I didn't see the Lucroy "boxers fracture," from the notorious suitcase.... Anyway, we're now getting it from Fiers and it's going to waste. Still, it's impressive, and I really do think he can keep it up...not to the level he's currently at obviously, but I think he's the type of guy who can be a be a legitimate #3 type pitcher. He obviously hides the ball extraordinarily well and what's been said about his fastball appearing to have much more velocity clearly has some truth to it. He also looks like Picasso on the edges at times with his off-speed stuff. I don't even know what he's throwing at times, cutters, changes, but he can get in on a guys hands or the end of the bat routinely, and he's just got strikeout stuff. It's pitchers like that-that are almost the most fun. Hopefully Burgos can be one, but developing a guy who just kinda flies under the radar and can become a guy with the upside and the ability that Fiers has without that traditional "great stuff." Don't get me wrong, 96 on the black, is 96 on the black, and a Greinke slider is why one guy gets paid 140 million and wins Cy Youngs, but 6 years of a guy like Fiers who I'm now convinced can be a 3.80-4.00 ERA type pitcher.

It's refreshing to see people who actually appreciate Sheets. It seems as though the average fan ragged on him relentlessly after the injuries. As if he made the decision to get injured and, try to pitch through and eventually just make things worse. Especially the last year here when he threw knowing how badly we needed another big start and another ace starter, he went out there and tried to throw. Who knows, maybe if he just shuts it down he's pitching for Texas the following season and he's maybe even still pitching...you never know how one injury impacts another, how you adjust how you throw based on an injury. Anyway, he certainly made his injury worse, but his '04 season, in the midst of the steroid era is the best season by a Brewers pitcher IMO with Fingers MVP season coming in second only because Sheets pitched another 150 innings obviously. Seriously, I'd love to see what numbers he'd put up pitching in 2012 like he did in 2004. I think Greinke if he pitches here all year this year could challenge, but it'd still be tough to match Sheets 2004 season. He posted a ridiculous 8.0 WAR. Higurea had a 7.4 WAR and even CC's big year here and with Cleveland was only 7.6. It also puts Grienke's 9.3 WAR into perspective.

What's the point of controlling him for those years if you admit they're not going to be competitive? And they shouldn't even consider it? So if the O's were willing to give up Bundy, the D-backs Bauer/Skaggs/Bradley...they shouldn't consider that? And why would the Brewers be looking to trade BACK for a #3 starter? And fine, we're a 70 win team. Probably worse if we do what I've suggested. But that's a lot better than 77 and 80 wins as at least you're moving in the right direction and could possibly field a WS team in just 3 short years(when Gallardo is a FA by the way, that we control him for so long is what would yield two ELITE grade A prospects).

Yeah, but it'd still be more net revenue. We're going to blow away a revenue record this year, and next year we're going to have 20 million in TV money(could be 25) and Radio money coming in. So if you traded Hart, Aram, Wolf and ate lets say 12 million in salaries, Gallardo, Greinke, K-Rod, Axford, and Marcum(not to mention, fillers like Veras, Kottars, Gomez/Morgan as both have value, Weeks if you can get someone to eat that whole contract, otherwise, he's just too talented, decline Gonzalez and go with the bare minimum, we could easily see a payroll in the 65-70 range, if that, and we'd be making a LOT more money than we've been making. Hell, at that figure, I think revenue sharing and the new TV deal would pick that up without cover the payroll. And we'll still have draws. Braun, Lucroy, Fiers(who I said before he got his first start COULD still turn this season around with a Cal Eldred circa 1992 type season...and he's looking up to the task). I STILL don't think they get Profar for Gallardo straight up. I really think too little of what Profar is. When an article comes out with the best possible 25 man roster and Andrus is on it and they have a link talking about how he won't be the best on the TEAM next year? And I don't care about attendance. We'll finish above 2 million because we're Milwaukee for the next 3+ years. By then just imagine the talent we could have. Profar, Perez, Skaags as 3 elite prospects and I would say 3-4 more. Plus what we have and what we have is pretty good. Not great, but solid. Run out a lineup of OF-Braun/Schafer/Aoki/Gindl and Gomez(I still want to hold onto him, he just simply looks different this year, as though at 26 he's starting to get it, and he's been hampered by injury all year long. Had that not happened, I think he'd be putting up a 4.0 WAR type season. I really do. He's just showing his a smarter player. IF- 1B/Gamel;2B/Weeks;SS;3B Green C-Lucroy/Maldonado Rotation Fiers Thornburg Estrada Peralta Narveson There is some entertainment value there. That's probably a 65 win team, which again, gives us ANOTHER top pick, and probably one more after that. And the O's may be perfect for Gallardo. Bundy for Gallardo. Whatever it is. Maybe it's Hart and Gallardo for Profar as the Rangers need the pitching. Christ, I'd give up Marcum+Gallardo for Profar/Perez and Martin at this point just because I think Profar has the ability to be a SS unlike any other in the game right now, a 15-18 Hr hitter who bats .300, has the ability to carry a .380-400 OBP, hit for power, speed and best of all is already considered a better defender than Andrus by the age of 19? That's a guy you can build around with if Weeks can be Weeks, Braun, Lucroy, Gamel doing what I expect, spend some money to be spent when we're a 85 win team just bursting with prospect, selling 3.3 million. Look, I HATE-HATE to trade Gallardo and if it were up to ME, we'd simply spend the money for Greinke, we'd bring back Gonzalez next year and perhaps trade for Jamey Carroll as a utility guy and I'd go with a starting rotation of' Greinke/Gallardo/Thornburg/Fiers/Estrada Lineup of Weeks Aoki/Gomez Braun Aram Hart/Gomez when Hart plays 1st Lucroy Gamel-HE WILL HIT in the big leagues and he WILL be a 3-4 WAR player. I hate saying things with absolutes, but if he's healthy, he WILL do those things. Gonzalez Couple tweaks to the BP. Maybe a Grant Balfour to fill in for K-Rod, whatever, maybe Mark Rogers comes up and he proves that he's a viable late inning guy, Parra, Manzanillo..etc..etc.. But that all rests on Greinke. I don't believe we can win in today's game with out at least a great 1-2, and I think those two give us more than just about any other team has. Fiers I think is just "that guy." His fastball looks like a 95 MPH fastball and he locates his off-speed so well. I've been calling him 1992 Eldred since before he got called up(just on a whim, basically, a team like us needs an X-factor to push them to the race in Sept. But if they get too far out....sell EVERYTHING, build up a MASSIVE stockpile of young talent, plus perhaps the 1st-5 picks in the next 3 drafts and I HONESTLY believe the Brewers could be this years Washington Nationals. But instead of spending money on Jason Werth, we'd spend it on Stephen Drew to play SS or someone of that caliber. Hope by then you have one more impact bat and 50 pct of your promising pitchers in AA/AAA pan out and we should be a REAL threat. And I know, I know, the thought of moving Gallardo makes me sick to my stomach. But I really believe he's peaked as a #2 and if you make a trade with AZ for instance....a POWER arm already dominating in AA, Andrew Chafin+Matt Davidson who's more than passing the test at 21 in AA, you'd have probably a top 5 prospect, a top 30 prospect and a top 50 prospect. And the D-backs are good enough to get into the playoffs with Gallardo. I don't think they give up a guy like Skaggs or even Bradley for Greinke straight up. I just think we need to be EXTREME. Not overpay Marcum, watch him become Suppan or hit the DL and then spend up to 120 on Edwin Jackson and think we've done anything. Although, we COULD sign Jackson to a smart deal and sign Drew who for some reason I thought was a FA the year after next, and who should come extremely cheap relatively speaking. 5 years 40 million or so. But you only do that if you believe in Fiers, Thornburg or another can truly contribute next year...and I'm sold on both. I think Fiers is so deceptive that he can be a 3.40 type ERA pitcher and Thornburg so talented he can be as good as Gallardo, if not better. Not next year, next year I expect early Sheets like seasons. But again, that would be the middle ground. I say you blow it up and start all over again, or you pony up, sign Greinke, and take the savings from Wolf, K-Rod, Morgan, Marcum and others, plus additional revenue to bring in Drew and put together a team better than this year with some help(and frankly, with the new revenue coming in, I'm upping what I've literally been saying since 2008 when I said 95 last year, 100 this year and 110 next year, I think with the forbes release on how much money we made last year and are projected to make this year plus the additional revenues, that's entirely reasonable. But if it goes bad, you've got a HUGE payroll for this market, one that can only be sustained in good times and not with 2.2 million in attendance. By the way a quick shot out to Mark A. It's absolutely baffling how he's been able to make the type of money and pull this team into an area in which 120 after a nearly 110 million dollar budget, with the money from TV, Radio and ticket prices giong up and selling more of them. So go MEGA big with Greinke, and adding a star SS on the cheap having a miserable season due to the ankle, but a full two years should get him easily back into it. In THAT scenario, I'd run out Weeks 2B Aoki(L) CF Braun-LF Aram-3B Hart-RF Gamel(L) Lucroy-C Drew-(SH'er) SS Greinke/Gallardo/Fiers/Thornburg/Estrada/Jackson BP Axford/Balfour/Manzanillo/Veras/Parra/Wooten/Henderson/Stetter....and so on. But that means Greinke signs and you can focus on the other areas on the teams that can be upgraded probably cheaply. Especially with all the money coming off and all the money going ON. Sadly, that option seems to have passed as Greinke's going to get IMO 6 years 145....and he'd have to be convinced we can compete, a tough argument to make without knowing what HE'S going to do, and everything contingent upon him. So again, I think just a firesale, rebuild the farm as well as it possibly can be is the way to go with the uncertainty. 9--

I'm just floating this idea around. I sincerely doubt it will happen, but I think it's the type of trade we should at LEAST consider. A pitcher of his ability who's eligible to be a FA after 2014, 2015 with the team options. If we're going to sell, and I think we should, I think we should sell everyone and up until now I've been excluding Braun, Lucroy, Gallardo... But if you're trading Greinke and NOT re-signing him, I don't see this team being competitive over the next 2-3 years. So basically I don't see them winning while they have Gallardo. And if that's the case I don't see any use in wasting his prime years and his last years with the Brewers sans an extension on a team that he may make a 68 win team instead of a 65 win team. If Gallardo could net us an A prospect+a couple B to B+ type prospects along with Greinke, Hart, Aram(paying 10 million and the way he's bounced back), Axford as it makes little sense to keep a closer on a 100 loss team as he starts to get paid more and more... I think we could get 6-7 legit IMPACT players in the minors just for Gallardo, Greinke and Hart, plus the next two drafts in which we'd likely be competing for the top pick in each draft, I think you end up wasting a LOT less of Braun's career in Milwaukee than you do if you just keep trying to hold on. I know this will likely illicit pretty adamant negative responses, but if you could pry away a guy like Profar and Perez for Gallardo, or maybe a guy like Skaggs and a couple B prospects from the D-backs, or just a couple elite prospects for a legit #2 pitcher for 3 years at a good salary, I think it's worth considering. Otherwise you're talking about getting ready to lose Gallardo the next time the brewers have a team capable of contending we'd just be where we are right now with Greinke. Unless of course the Brewers re-sign both Greinke and then extend Yo for another 2 years. I'm just trying to think big picture and what is most likely to get us back to the WS CALIBER team we had last year, and again, while I'm sure I'll be in the vast minority, we'd have potentially the best farm system in the game in -3 years if we made the right decisions. Just a "what is," type scenario. Gallardo+Hart+Wolf(dump) for Profar and Leonys Martin would anyone say no to that? Turn around, trade Greinke for a slightly less impressive return. Marcum when he comes back and shows he's healthy. With so many buyers and so few sellers out there, Hart, Yo, Greinke and Marcum could net us as many as 6-7 of next years top 50 prospects. Add that to K-Rod, Aram(if we eat a big chunk of his salary, he's again hitting and playing well), a top 5 pick this year, a top 5 pick next year, and probably a top 5-10 pick the following year, not only should our own prospects have a couple years under their belt, but we should have a tidal wave of prospects ready to come up, many of them if things go well in the top 10-15. Just something I think should be at least considered if we are going to truly sell and truly try and REBUILD....the link report will be a helluva lot more fun to watch than the Brewers games, but it's that way almost right now. I want 100 wins and a WS, not for Braun to go out like Yount without really getting a chance the last 10 years of his career. And while I think Yo is REALLY good, I don't think he's a true Ace, yet as good as he's been, he could net us one or two with the potential to be aces in a trade right now.

I completely agree on Pastornicky, he's setting the bar awfully low. I guess I might be in the minority but I'd rather get pitching for Greinke than a SS. I worry though what type of pitching Melvin might look to acquire so I'd be fine with an impact bat.[/quote And why do you worry about the type of pitching he'd be looking to acquire, but not position player? I think their organizational philosophy of acquiring pitchers as of late has been pretty good. Big, durable, flame throwers. Like Jimmy Nelson. Of course it's not like Melvin has made those picks, he's simply changed the type of pitcher we go after. I suspect the point of this post was entirely to take a shot at Melvin and little else because he hasn't followed your easy blueprint of winning 96 games while producing an elite farm system churning out talent left and right.

I'm not sure where to go with this post? You realize we gave them Dan Kolb first of all, and second....there is absolutely no relation between the two, not to mention, so long as he isn't bad? I'm guessing the Brewers are thinking the same thing right now. So long as our guy isn't actually bad and is a good player, then I'd be willing to trade for him. Kinda hingsight thingy. Hard to foresee that before you make the trade.