HiAndTight

If so, give Maldonado Greinke and Gallardo because Kottaras is just awful at blocking balls behind the plate.

Right, but you could easily argue they were the last two years as well. I don't think they were willing to give up a guy like Profar for Grienke, so they went out and signed a guy who, only having to pitch half a year, could give them a big boost. And with Yu Darvish improving as the season moves along...we'll see. I too think Greinke himself would have made them far and away the favorites. His recent blow up, and the cost though may have pushed them to Oswalt and the 8 million he was looking for. It seems pretty obvious to me this was a move to keep him away from the Phillies. The Brewers had recent talks with Oswalt, but reportedly wanted too much money. So they strike a blow to the Phillies a team that could easily get hot, get in and with Halladay/Lee/Hamels and Worley beat any team, especially if they have a couple of injured vets come back and produce in the post-season. And they solidify their own system without having to give up their top guy.

Congrats, it only took you how many days and 25 years to go back and find a player who played a DIFFERENT position and was STILL a two time all-star who didn't play the same position and wasn't nearly the defensive prospect Profar is. Your excuses are getting tiresome. It's not as impressive he's dominating after just turning 19 years old because...well...he started playing baseball earlier. Really? Bit of a stretch, don't ya think? Either way, Rangers just signed Oswalt, so we likely won't find out just how totally ridiculous it is to expect Profar to be PART of a package for 4 months of Greinke. It is worth noting on here though how when it's OUR players we value 6 premium years of cheap talent more than a short term rental, especially when we're out of it. Not only that, but you've used Cy Young in nearly everyone of YOUR posts. Tell me which is more likely, Greinke wins another Cy Young, or Profar's the impact player he's projected to be? I'd say it's less than a "coin flip," Greinke wins another Cy Young. Anyway, we'll have to wait 2 or so years to find out about Profar at which time you'll likely have no recollection of this conversation...

Ok, it looks like the last poster is right. I will have to explain myself again. Because not one person can name me a shortstop who projects to be a GG caliber defender who can hit for power, who projects to carry a .high .300's OBP(.380/.390) while hitting .300 as well as stealing bases. I asked several times when was the last time a SS like that came up an I got Castro who does NOT draw walks and who is most certainly NOT a GG caliber defender at SS and has major questions about him being able to stay at SS. And you're asking ME about why I think he is a once in a generation type player. Don't then attribute other players labels as once in a generation type player label to ME? I never said those guys were "once in a generation." I never said either way, though Harper is. But does it make you feel better to know that he's now the #2 prospect in all the minors behind ONLY Dylan Bundy? And I'm sick of rattling off how impressive a debut he has to push Profar to #2, so if you don't know, look him up. Still though, I've had several people call me out on that comment and yet have been unable to find one single player to compare him to in the last decade or so.

For some reason I don't believe you're done defending Profar because you've been saying the same thing every post. Look, nobody is saying Profar isn't a great prospect or that we don't want him. I think most people here would gladly take Profar in exchange for Greinke. I just think some people will always be wary of young, "unproven in the majors" prospects because there are always guys that don't succeed. As much as you think Profar is a slam dunk, you can't guarantee it. Sure there could be a 90%, 80%, etc. chance of him succeeding and there's no point in arguing what that percentage is. However, one thing is for sure and that is that he is not a 100% guarantee. I honestly don't even remember what you were trying to argue about anyway because like I said, most people here would probably do Profar for Greinke. Well...I guess all you'd have to do is go back and look at the start of the discussion as most people claimed I was underestimating Profar and that they'd want a B prospect in return. A B prospect. What was Thornburg ranked coming into the season? Wasn't he a "B," prospect? There were also people who 'weren't impressed with Profar and tried to bring up trades when draft pick compensation was involved and took this in a whole other direction when it was totoally irrelevant. Also those who said that the lack of draft picks won't matter because he guarantees the Rangers didn't consider the comp picks that they'd get for Lee. It helps when you read the other posts if you're trying to get some insight into why I'm posting my posts. I argued that if anything I'd be willing to throw in a guy like K-Rod into the equation as I don't think you'll get a whole lot for him in a trade.

Oh man, Andy Marte. Around the time I discovered Brewerfan, the love for him here was Profar x 10. I'd debate that, there were some who liked him, but what does one prospect's success or failure have to do with any other prospect? Aren't they all different people? For the record, Profar is x5 the prospect that Marte ever was. There's projection in his frame, he's tearing up AA as a 19 year old, and the talk is that Texas will move Andrus for him, he's that good. There's top prospects, then there are elite prospects, and then there once in a generation prospects. I don't think we'll see another Harper or Strasburg for awhile but Profar is definitely in the elite category of prospects, there are simply not many players his age that perform like he has at a premium defensive position... they are extremely rare. I doubt Greinke is enough to pull Profar, as I said previously if Dylan Bundy doesn't jump past him he'll be the #1 prospect according to BA, and if/when Bundy jumps past him it will have absoutely nothing to do with Profar's performance this season which has been extraordinary, Bundy is just that good and pitching is at a premium. What team is going to trade the top prospect in all of baseball for half a season worth of starts? It's almost comical that prospects are viewed by some as bigger risks than veteran players who flame out at a similar rate with much larger monetary commitments at stake. I already posted the failure rates for prospects earlier in the SS thread, if you scroll down to the bottom of that link you'll find analysis by prospect ranking and while those rankings aren't absolute it's actually more like a 70% chance that Profar turns out to be as valuable as his talent would suggest. Melvin's success rate in FA is no where near 50% and we're splitting hairs about how good of a prospect Profar is? Yes there will always be Delmon Young type flame outs but there are also Ryan Brauns, Corey Harts, Prince Fielders, Yovani Gallardos... Where's the greater risk... taking a chance on players at league minimum or taking chances on players with 8 digit salaries? I agree. On a board that values ALL the things Profar is doing. Premium defense at a premium defensive position. Great OB skills. Very strong IF arm. Good speed. Excelling as a young 19 year old at AA. And yet Keith Law is constantly brought up to diminish his status as though he's the only one touting Profar...

Saying somebody has a 50% chance of being an impact player isn't really an insult of the player in my book. Well, you obviously had a different author to your book than mine. I don't think anyone said it was a coin flip that Harper would be an impact player, did they? Mike Trout? But hey, if people just simply want to say if you're a prospect its' a 50/50 chance you're going to be a impact player, regardless of the mountain of evidence to the contrary, then fine. Then I suppose there really is no difference in trading for Profar despite the spectacular #'s he's put up for his age and level and just take the two comp picks back. Better to have two picks to "flip the ole' coin" over than one, right? Hey, until you're proven, it's always just 50/50. There are no mitigating factors! Alright, that's about it for me on defending Profar's status. Nobody's done much arguing other than, "he's not even hitting .300(despite hitting .298 and slugging .860 as a kid who just turned 19) and he's not proven, so it's a flip of the coin. I'm sure we'd have passed on Matt Moore because he was a "flip of the coin as well." I am curious, we could take a look. How many prospects who have performed well in the upper levels before the age of 20 and have ranked among the top 5(not even just top 2) have been "flip of the coin," impact players in recent years?

And we're just throwing out the possibility that he could have punched something at the stadium for what reason?

From what I can gather from the entirity of this post, you haven't read very closely. A-Nobody's said he has an anger management problem. Your words, hasn't been brought up one single time as far as I can see until you brought it up to inflame. B-Better men than Lucroy have lied. And from what I know, Luc's a pretty good guy. Now maybe you can go back and read again and rather than throw out adjectives and associate them with people who never made them, you can see that MOST of us don't believe the story and believe he's being dishonest in THIS case(if you want to say that's us calling him a liar, well, several of us have had experience with this and all admitted to lying about it. What's more, I'd like to find ONE single person who hasn't lied in their life. What's more, I don't think ANYONE suggesting that his story of a BOXERS FRACTURE(please re-read those words) is a little off and that, like ALL of us, he MIGHT have gotten upset and hit something. This might not have dawned on you because pro-athletes don't have any flaws, any problems and are essentially perfect(if they're good) but they face stress just like other people, and sometimes people do things OUT OF CHARACTER. So YOU'RE the only one assigning him the label of a "liar," with an "anger management," problem when we're simply looking at a story that seems just plain ridiculous and most of us are saying, "yeah, I can understand why he'd lie about a story like this," without passing a whole lot of judgement. So please don't re-word our posts and pretend you're not making things up. Alright?

Ok, so his hand COULD have been in a fist. But it's broken, so it wouldn't have been something he just shrugged off. Also, when you're blocking a ball, you're hand usually isn't closed up, or in a fist, but lets assume it is. He waits a couple days and comes up with a ridiculous story that contradicts what a boxers fracture is? It doesn't HAVE to be a conspiracy, but it certainly sounds like a made up story.

This is close to mine. And I agree with Morris. Mine goes 1-Tyler Thornburg 2-Jimmy Nelson-With TT and Nelson both capable of throwing upper 90's, plus off-speed pitches and developing changes, could form nice 1-2. 3-Jed Bradley-Lefty who was hitting 97 last year. Little concerned he's only throwing 89-90 this year. If he can sit at 92-93 with his other pitches, he could be a #2. 4-Taylor Jungman-Reliable workhorse. Again, if he can work a tick or two higher, could have #2 upside. Expect last 3 to be more 3's, but could be a higher ceiling. 5-Wily Peralta-What the hell? Hope he's healthy. A guy who can throw 98 in the 7th, get GB's and put up the numbers he did last year could be a Tim Hudson type pitcher. But right now he's getting hit like Suppan did. Not sure what the deal is. I fear on July's he could be about 10 spots lower due to injury. 6-Scooter Gennett-Just keeps on chugging and the skeptics have less and less to try and use to diminish him. Everyone knew he wasn't a 16th round talent. Few expected this. 7-Jorge Lopez-Ace upside. 8-Brooks Hall-One of my favorites. Reminds me of Odorizzi. 9-Orlando Arcia-Just 17, so ACL surgery doesn't really concern me. 10-Caleb Gindl-Hitting .200. We all know he's got a lot more than that in him. I believe he can be a .265/.355 hitter with a cannon for an arm in RF. 11-Logan Schafer-Poor mans Steve Finley....though maybe not THAT poor. Will never hit 30 HR's, probably won't hit 30....but could hit 15 with a .285/.340/.400 slash line and play good defense. 12-Nick Bucci-Both he and Scarpetta are still huge questions. Scarpetta moreso as he's got that 94-95 MPH fastball and that big curve. 13-Cody Scarpetta- 14-Cody Garfield-Could be another fantastic catcher. 15-D'vontey Richardson-Huge upside. 16-Yadiel Rivera-Again, has very good upside at shortstop. Not sure if he sticks though. 17-Hunter Morris 18-Kentrail Davis-Though this is the one I can see making the biggest jump in the near future. Still has great tools and all the bat speed needed. 19-Drew Gagnon-Probably about 7-8 spots too low. 20-Shawn Zarraga(though...if he's not a C anymore, not sure where he is) 21-Alan Williams-could also shoot up quickly. Guy like him are going to be huge for us IF we sign Greinke. Could move very quickly as a dominant loogy, or even a 7th inning guy. 22-Mark Rogers-Not ready to give up juuust yet. 23-Rob Wooten-Future is almost certainly as a 4th or 5th guy out of the pen, and probably at best a SU man. Almost definitely makes the big league club, but just doesn't have the arm to dominate. 24-Eric Arnett-No problem bringing him back as he shows signs of life and as a future 1st, I do put some stock into that. If he had the potential to be a 1st rounder a couple years ago, there's still talent there. We'll see how he progresses. 25-Carlos Sosa-Big arm, could be a future closer. 26-Lee Haydel-Not a clue where he fits in, but he's hitting well in AA and has blazing speed. Could easily be a very good utility OF'er. I'd do this 10 times and it'd be slightly different 10 times. Edit-Mike Fiers at #10. And Heckathorn at 14. Forgot about him. My list is most definitely skewed towards guys with upside.

Lex Luthor would be on Superman's bandwagon if Superman could turn around this team this year!! Seriously though, my opinion of RR is improving. He's used his BP as I believe he should. He or whoever made it, made the right call in bringing up Fiers(I don't think he's got a clue about our prospects which I find unacceptable and common among most managers) was the right call. But he's had the guts to do what he can to keep us from completely falling apart. Going with Hart at 1st and Aoki in RF which I think is the lineup the rest of the year is a HUGE boost to a very bad offense thus far and could be part of a big step in the right direction. Truth is though...there just isn't much he can do. I think we have had 7 suicides this year out of 8 attempts. Never loved the suicide, but in most of the games it's came in, it's either added a run, or it's been when we've been down by 1 and has been in BIG spots. We haven't been bunting with the #2 hitter as much, though from Morgan and RR we found that was often the result of the player trying to bunt for a base hit than the manager calling for a sac early in in the game. I think he's learning from his mistakes and might be doing a better job THIS year than last year. And there is a very good chance he losses 25 more games as a result. Though with that said, he strikes me as the type who could be a VERY good coach for younger guys in a rebuilding process. He hasn't shown that in a "win now," type mentality, but I think he's gotten better at handling the young guys, and there would be an entirely different thought process if we rebuilt. He just seems to have a very good demeanor to deal with that and deal with young guys DESPITE what i would agree has not been a great track record under the current circumstances. That's me taking a leap of faith based on what type of guy he SEEMS to be. It's depressing though...our manager has gotten better and we could end up as a 70 win team rather than a 96 win team...

Here's the deal. The Rangers have made the World Series the last 2 years and fallen just short. Hamilton will be a FA, and will likely get big bucks elsewhere. Feliz is hurt, so why wouldn't they look to strengthen their pitching staff? I'm sure they'd explore Greinke, as well they should. I agree on all acounts. Which is why we're focused on the Rangers as a landing point for Greinke. I'm simply stating I don't believe the Rangers will make Profar available. If the Angels were in the same situation, I don't think they'd make Trout available, and Profar is in that same league. I think a guy like Mike Olt, Martin Perez and a third prsopect is very possible. I'm just saying I think to get Profar...who I don't even think is available, would be an incredibly great haul for the Brewers. I do think the Rangers re-sign Hamilton as they've got BIG money coming into that franchise as they're one of about 8 teams drawing better than us and have a fresh 3 billion dollar TV deal and are primed to be a team that can push their payroll into the 160 or so area in the near future IMO. I LIKE IT!!! Hey, he's proven he can get big league hitters out, he's got experience, and trading for prospects is nothing more than a "coin flip," even the best ones! So we've come to an agreement...since we need guys who've PROVEN they can play at the big league level instead of operating logically like a smart small market team should and "flipping coins," on unproven players given all those who haven't panned out in the past, it's Helton, Giambi and Jamie Moyer. You just solved our WHOLE problem. PLUS...the Brewers will probably save some money as these guys will likely take less money as they go on Social Security and Medicare. That's a nice savings there. But hey, at least they're proven.

Please make a list of all the guys as highly rated who've been busts? Ignoring the fact that EVEN if he was a relative "bust," at the plate, he'd still likely carry and OBP over .300 and be a stellar defender at short, one of the best in the game. And yes, I'm "aroused," over Profar. Another insightful and mature comment. And before you state you don't want to start a "personal war," over something, don't jump into the conversation and act like a clown, THEN profess to take the high road...which you most certainly have not done. Tell ya what, before you start spouting cliches and insults, educate yourself on Profar and the rarity of what he's doing having just turned 19 in Feb in AA and then get back to me. But please do tell, if you don't want to "flip the coin," which again is ridiculous as it suggests it's even money that Profar will in fact be an impact player at the big league level, once again stating your ignorance of his ability, what do you want? Obviously not any prospects who are young and cost controlled for 6 years and project to be superstars as they're all "flips of the coin," right?

I think you are under valuing Greinke by a lot. The Brewers would definitely get Profar for Greinke without adding a B type prospect. Just look at what the Rangers gave up to get Lee for one season and no the idea of getting draft picks wasn't really on the Rangers minds when they traded for Lee. I could see the Brewers getting the same type of players that the Mariners got back in return for trading Lee. I believe Ryan is going to be very aggressive this year and get someone that will be the #2 behind Darvish and there will be no other pitcher that is going to be on the market that is going to fit that bill. Garza comes to mind but the Cubs seem to have this fascination that they are going to get two A type prospects in return for Garza and I believe the Cubs are going to ask for Perez and Profar for Garza and I see the Rangers turning that down and going with Greinke if the Brewers accept Profar and a B type prospect for Greinkie. I don't think you can fairly say this. It was always part of the equation. Part of the package that you had to give up for buying expensive rentals at the deadline was the knowledge that you were also trading Type A compensation (1st or 2nd + sandwich pick) to the buying team. I don't think there was ever a trade where this came into play where it was just ignored. Now a rental is strictly a rental. If you aren't likely to be able to re-sign them, you get nothing for them other than what they give you during the couple months that they're there. No comp if they weren't with you all year. And I think that definitely would be a consideration to a buying team when trading for Greinke. Of course, if you can get multiple desperate teams involved, that's another way to drive up the value. Agreed. I don't think the Brewers make the trade for CC if they're not getting comp picks back. Of course it was just their luck that Mike Trout, a guy they likely would have picked went to the Angels because Tex rated as a higher prospect than CC(#1 vs #2 which still hurts as I dream of a Lucroy/Trout/Braun/Lawrie middle of the order. And it's POSSIBLE the Rangers want that WS so bad they may look at it and just not care. Doubt it, but I'm as certain as one can be without actually knowing for certain that the Rangers took into consideration the comp picks. Otherwise, Seattle didn't get a very good haul IMO. And despite the fact that I think the Rangers are the favorites right now, how often do the favorites win it? Imagine them running into the Rays with a Matt Moore who's pitching great as your #3 behind Price a legit ace and Shields a great pitcher and an ace with Hellickson as your #4? You confident enough in the front of your rotation? So maybe they look at it and say, "hey, we might have to give away a budding superstar to give us the best chance to win this year, and we can certainly afford to re-sign Andrus who's very good, so lets go for it." Give them Greinke and good God that team would be hard to beat. Better yet, give them Hart and Greinke and take back Profar and Martin Perez AND a Mike Olt and that could net us three potentially ELITE prospects(plus the pick we'd get in the top 5-10 pick we'd likely have as we'd probably lose close to 100 games without those two) and you'd have a trade that could jump the farm system 15+ spots from this pre-season combined with some breakout performances into the top 5-8. Use next year to save money, build up a bit of a war chest...or hell, sign Greinke as a FA and you'd only lose Hart, but you'd have gained a ton of talent. I don't believe it will happen though...but I can dream...or make the trade on my 360...if I cleaned the dust off and played it anymore.

Yeah, but a punchers fracture isn't usually caused by something falling ON the top of it, it's caused by your hand being in a fist and something hitting it flush. Now what sounds more likely, something hit his hand, or his hand hit something? I'd have liked to use that story when I was 19 in a bar fight. "No officer, I didn't punch him, he hit me with his head in my hand...THAT'S why it's broken!" I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten a disorderly conduct!

Didn't see your post...but obviously I agree. I think we need to sit Braun now for the sake of his health. This is ridiculous. I said yestserday that Braun should be sitting just because he clearly isn't healthy. There was a double hit over his head that Braun catches 9 times out of 10. Now I'm not saying that he's a good defender, but despite him not always getting a good read on the ball or mis-playing it, when he does get a beat on it, he can cover some ground. This ball bounced about a step and a half away from him before the track(or just on it, can't quite recall) and I thought watching Braun it was gone just the way he was jogging after it. Either after 5 years Braun has gotten lazy, or that achillies and or hamstring injury is sure hampering him right now. If it's the prior...I wouldn't mess with it. It'd be like Gallardo having a sore elbow. THAT SAID, I'm not as worried as I probably should be. Aram's hitting well, Aoki looks like Ichiro(please refrain, I'm using hyperbole, but he looks like a very good hitter) and Hart is hitting well. If Morgan can come around, Gomez is in a funk(otherwise known as his entire career, but if he can get back to TAKING that 1st pitch slider that you know is coming and that he did for 6 weeks) and Weeks can finally turn it around our offense could be alright. I keep dogging on Kottaras, and he's AWFUL defensively, but I just looked going into tonights game and his OBP was like .460 or something outrageous. If he can just go .220/.360/.420 I'll be happy. I'm also confident that Fiers will come through and pitch well. Not great, but 6 2/3 4 ER's type well...well enough that he can help get our rotation stabilized. Nothing's really changed from last years rotation to this years. They're actually looking good. Edit-Good god I just went back and counted the "If's," in my optimistic outlook. Ok, start calling teams. Greinke, Hart, Marcum, Wolf, Morgan....short of a 8-2 run which we need with these guys OUT or banged up...we're going to be a seller. And good GOD I hope I'm wrong about Profar and those I've debated with are right and he can be had for Greinke.

Epic. Am I the only one who thinks they'll find out this is a completely ridiculous story and that he punched something? He's going on the DL as having a fractured hand, or otherwised known as a "boxer's break." Yeah...sounds like he was "reaching under his bed for a sock and a suitcase(filled with what, bricks? He's a big leaguer, how heavy is his suitcase? Even if it was filled with clothes?) fell on his hands. C'mon. The only reason I'd believe him is because he's so calm and cool, but I think this was a domestic dispute and the wall was the suitcase(argument, not making any accusations, nor would I think less of him if he got into an argument and punched a wall out of frustration) or it happened after a bad AB, the most likely scenario. He was a little upset with himself a couple times in recent games when he made an out. Doesn't change my opinion of him, but it's either the nail in the coffin, or like the Packers in 2010, it's going to make our resurgence all the sweeter. (For the record, not exactly holding my breath for the second option.....)

First of all, there are a lot of people who don't believe Castro can stay at SS. Big gap from being a GG caliber defender. Second, you want to talk about how a guy hitting .298 at age 19 in AA isn't "even," hitting .300, Castro at 19 hit .288/.347/.397 and a .744 OPS, roughly .120 points lower than what Profar is doing right now. Not sure what it takes to get your "jaw to drop," but what he's doing at AA at age 19 combined with his defense is as close to "jaw dropping," as anyone in the minors right now short of..again, the one guy rated ahead of him, Dylan Bundy. And it's funny you mention Castro. Profar's an inch shorter, but 25 pounds lighter, but he doesn't have the frame to add power...yet he's slugging .497 right now. Again, that's 100 points higher than Castro...who by the way didn't start the year at AA. He started at HiA at 19. Profar was there at 18 and again, his numbers blew Castro's out of the water. So who will be better? I don't know. I asked to name a SIMILAR player however. Castro isn't. But hey, if we're going by who's "proven," at the MLB level, then doesn't the whole prospect thing become moot? We could be looking for a package like Todd Helton, maybe Giambi and perhaps a third...if being "proven," at the MLB level is so important. And you can defend the HOF comment all you want, it's pretty obvious it was based on nothing I said. I mean, it's cute you're trying to defend it, but you brought up HOF to be condescending. There's a 20 year career and a long way from being an elite prospect and "as close" to can't miss as you can get and HOF, so the only reason for that comment was to be a....I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Most people, including yourself have talked about how important the jump to AA is. And here's a SS who's GG caliber slugging .860 at AA after having JUST turned 19 as doesn't turn 20 until next Feb. I'm sure there are 22/23 year olds putting up more impressive numbers in AA and AAA. There's a reason they're rated well below them.

I believe the Rangers will and because they already have a great SS in Andrus. Andrus and Castro right now are the best SS's in the majors. I don't care how good or how great Profar maybe he could be a bust once he hits the majors if he ever does (injuries can and may happen). If you already have someone that is great in Andrus why not deal for something that can help you now? The Rangers will not lose much sleep over losing Profar it is all nice that he is a highly ranked prospect but he can become a bust as much as he can become a superstar. Baseball is weird like that and Smoak was ranked as high as Profar was at one time even Gamel was ranked almost as high as Profar is currently ranked. That doesn't mean they are the same though I understand the talent is different between Profar and those two players. The Brewers getting Profar and a B level prospect is very much fair in asking for a return of Greinke. To me Nelson isn't even a B level prospect he is a B-/C+ level prospect. The player I mentioned earlier is more along the lines of a B-/C+ level prospect who is very similar to Taylor Green prospect wise probably more along the lines of a C+ level prospect with a ceiling that he could reach of your typical B level prospect. At no time was Gamel EVER ranked anywhere nearly as high as Profar is who has overtaken Machado by most experts opinions and is currently the #2 prospect. Neither was Smoak, though he was highly rated. I think I would place Nelson as a solid B prospect at this time. That he's throwing in the mid 90's, has a plus slider and is refining his change, and that all of that matches up with his outstanding numbers elevate him from B-/C+ level. I believe since the start of the season his value has to have risen.

My guess is they'll move Andrus for him in a year or two when he gets closer to Free Agency, during which time Profar will probably be the top prospect in baseball. I can't see them moving Kinsler when they have Beltre playing and playing well there, and I would guess Andrus has enough value at SS that they wouldn't waste it by playing him at 2B. But hey, I hope to god we can solve that problem for them. They'd certainly be fine just re-signing Andrus and having Kinsler stay put as well as Beltre and look for a 1B. I just don't think they'll put Profar on the market unless they're offered the moon. And Greinke is a great starter, but he's not the "moon," for 4 months.

Ok then, so lets stop using prospect rankings, lets stop using scouting reports, lets stopping citing a players age in his respective league. And lets speculate as to whether guys have ever seen a player play(because even if they did watch him play, they certainly couldn't have spoken to a number of scouts). Profar dominated HiA, a pitchers league at age 18 by hitting .300/.390. If we had a guy like him in our system, the #2 or at absolute worst, the #3 prospect in the game, I'm sure we'd be signing the same tune. I'm just curious if people can tell me how many times prospects rated as highly as Profar who lacks any doubt about his ability to stay at his current position have been traded for half a season of a pitcher, much less in addition to ANOTHER very good prospect? Bowden thinks the Brewers can get two highly rated prospect and a third lower rated one. I think that's entirely possible. And I wouldn't settle for less. Other teams may not get the two prospects back, but the Brewers will, so obviously they have to account for that in their decision making. But again, when we traded LaPorta, he was a good prospect without a true position playing in the OF, and then a relief pitcher, a good young CF'er who wasn't ranked anywhere near the top 100, and Zach Jackson, a nobody. And in return, we assumed we'd get a 1st rounder and a 1st round supplemental pick back. The asinine HOF comment though was spot on. Truly furthered the conversation...... Edit-By the way, I just took a look at his updated stats. REALLY Rock? Were you just waiting for his average to drop a tick below .300 in AA as a 19 year old so you could come on here and say, "he's not even a .300 hitter?" No, he's a .298/.363 hitter at 19 years old in a pitchers league, and for a guy who doesn't "project to hit many HR's," he's hit 12 last year at age 18, and is sluggling .500 this year(.497 so I don't hear how he's "not even slugging .500). I'd also like to know how YOU know that his frame doesn't "look," like he can add power to it? He's 5'11 165 and he's already shown power. But more to the point, he doesn't need to hit 30 HR's. 15-20 is just fine.

I think you are under valuing Greinke by a lot. The Brewers would definitely get Profar for Greinke without adding a B type prospect. Just look at what the Rangers gave up to get Lee for one season and no the idea of getting draft picks wasn't really on the Rangers minds when they traded for Lee. I could see the Brewers getting the same type of players that the Mariners got back in return for trading Lee. I believe Ryan is going to be very aggressive this year and get someone that will be the #2 behind Darvish and there will be no other pitcher that is going to be on the market that is going to fit that bill. Garza comes to mind but the Cubs seem to have this fascination that they are going to get two A type prospects in return for Garza and I believe the Cubs are going to ask for Perez and Profar for Garza and I see the Rangers turning that down and going with Greinke if the Brewers accept Profar and a B type prospect for Greinkie. And I think you're vastly underrating Profar. Again, I've repeated myself time and time again, but name ONE other current big league SS who projects to be similar to Profar? A guy who has a cannon for an arm, great range=GG caliber defender, great knowledge of the zone who projects to be a .300+ hitter and carry an OBP near .400.... And yet you REALLY think that the Rangers will not only give HIM up, but ALSO give us a Jimmy Nelson type prospect? If that's truly the case, than Greinke will be pitching in Arrlington. Profar right now is dominating at 19 years old at AA ball. Law in his updated prospect rating has Profar #2 behind only Dylan Bundy(which I think everyone knows what he's doing in the minors right now as a 19 year old prep arm with a 0 ERA and a .223 Whip and 40 K's in 30 IP). Nobody is underestimating Greinke. If people had read ANYTHING I'd written about him, I think he's one of the best pitchers in the game and could just as easily turn any number of teams into WS contenders. He's the most valuable piece on the trade market and could easily turn out to be like Sabathia was for us in '08. That doesn't mean the Rangers are going to give up a once in a generation type pitcher PLUS a very good pitching prospect in return for 4 months of him. Profar himself has more value than the package we gave up for Sabathia a few years ago. I'd also seriously like to know how you know that the Rangers thought of getting draft picks in return wasn't on their minds when they traded for Lee? I think that's ridiculous. How two first round picks wouldn't come into play is beyond me. But on that, Justin Smoak wasn't the prospect that Profar is, Beavan wasn't a top 100 prospect either. After that they got a guy that the Rangers almost snuck into the deal and the M's wanted to ship out ASAP, and a 4th prospect who was just a guy. Nobody special in Lawson. And obviously they took into consideration they were going to get two picks in return for him. Again, if they didn't, their GM should have been fired as that's just plain ridiculous. It's like suggesting the Brewers didn't take into consideration they'd get two prsopects back for Sabathia. Both teams took that into consideration under the old rules unless they were just plain stupid. And as the Rangers and they're player development have shown, they're most certainly not. The Brewers could probably get a package back for Greinke like the Rangers did, but I doubt they're going to get a guy who's as close to a can't miss future superstar at SS as you can get who's just 19 years old. If they can...like I said, Greinke will be taking his talents to Arrlington. And as Bowden suggested...that doesn't mean we can't re-sign him in the off-season. But there have been about 3-4 people who've told me I don't understand Greinke's trade value and cited trades in which the return was whatever player they were giving up, PLUS two first round picks. Is it just POSSIBLE some people don't understand the value of Profar? I hope you can come back here and tell me how wrong I was about this one. I just find it highly unlikely.

WOW....knee jerk much? Peralta's struggled in three starts. Jungman's struggled in one and at this point of the season, his ERA after allowing 9 ER's..in how many innings pitched is still 4.02. And we all know that if you have 7-8 high ceiling arms, not ONLY are they all going to struggle at times, but some of them will never do anything in the big leagues. And when a guy throws in the upper 90's and can sit in the low to mid 90's, get GB's and get K's, it can sometimes be just a mechanical adjustment. It can also be an injury. Serious, minor...I don't know. But I find it ridiculous to throw up your arms after getting two bad starts and say, "well, there goes our future through the farm!" Peralta's 22 years old. Jungman is 22 years old. Peralta's concern is obviously more pressing, but still...

If the Brewers could get Profar in a trade for Greinke that would be a real steal. And if they would, I'd be thrilled with that. But I think the B prospect would have to come from us, not them. The Phillies could be interesting though. Dominick Brown+Trevor May. Brown is a fallen prospect for the Phillies, but still extremely talented. May is a top 70 prospect coming into the year, and is striking out about 1 per inning in AA at 22 years old in AA. Struck out 208 in 158 innings last year and has 550 in 430 innings pitched in his minor league career, can throw in the mid 90's (not sure what he tops out at, though probably wouldn't be hard to find) and is extremely durable thus far. Brown is a former top 5 prospect. He's fallen again...quite a bit, not putting up great numbers in AAA. I don't know, it's difficult. The more you read about Profar, the more you see he's truly a once in a generation type player. Machado doesn't seem to be as talented(though...still elite), but if I'm the O's, why the hell would I trade the #3 ranked current prospect when I have the #1 in Bundy(Profar being #2) and a very nice core to build around in Weiters one of the top catchers in the game, Adam Jones, Markakis, several very good young pitchers. Perhaps not aces other than Bundy who has had the best start for a prep player I've ever seen(as in followed as it happened). They'd be crazy to give up a potential superstar SS for a short term starting pitcher. Better off signing him in the off-season.