HiAndTight

I don't agree. In a perfect world, there is an impact bat at SS available, a highly projectable prep arm available at 28, and another impact bat at 38. But it's an annoying cliche, but you never CAN have enough pitching. If you can grab three high ceiling arms, it's a lot easier to turn your team into a winner with great-great pitching up and down the system than it is with bats(as we've seen). Fast forward 18 months from now and we've got 3-4 of our arms actually paying off in the big league level and we've got 3 highly touted fresh minor league arms..it's a lot easier to trade pitching if you have an excess of it...which is nearly impossible to begin with, than hitting obviously. You think the O's would rather have Bundy or Machado? Just an extreme example? I'm sure most teams would take Bundy at this time even though they're probably just about 1-2 in other order in the updated top 100 rankings. Not that this is news to anyone, just why I hope they don't go out and specifically target position players and they DO stick firmly by their BPA MO. Baseball's obviously different than other sports. BPA is always relative in other sports. It shouldn't be in baseball in my opinion. You don't pass up on a Gallardo or Odorrizzi because you need impact bats and your system is lacking in them. That's how you end up with a bust as a 1st rounder.

Colby, apologies if you've been asked this before, but with the new cap allotment, do you think we're going to see a little three year lull before the talent in the draft is up to par with more HS kids going pro, or do you expect that the HS kids who may have expected to get these massive signing bonuses will realize those bonus dollar aren't coming in 3 years either? Do you see a much larger number of the amount of 1st round talent that goes unsigned, or that doesn't get drafted because of signability concerns? For example, Rick Porcello...if he were in this draft, any chance he'd sign? He wouldn't have had a chance to make that much more in 3 years than he did as a HS'er if his scenario were played out in this years draft. Is that player now just off the board thereby the sorta three year lull that I mentioned where less HS kids are signing, opting for college, and then more college talent starts emerging in 2015? Or will the difference be less noticeable? Again, apologies if you've already answered, but some of these threads have several hundred posts on them.

I've read some incredibly insightful reporting from the Journal Sentinel(and I swear if you're going to insult the paper, be more original than urinal sentinel) regarding the Packers, but when it comes to Brewers reporting, it's really truly terrible. With the Packers, you get these in depth analysis of every single player they drafted. They do their homework. You think when the Brewers draft a guy in the 17th round(about equal to the 7th) like Scooter Gennett, we get a whole workup of how he was really a potential 1st round talent like we did with Daltko from FSU, the LT we drafted who dropped because of his shoulder? No, you get a blurb that literally anyone on this message board could come on this board. Now most of this board is a bit over the top. The general readership of the MJS isn't going to care about Brooks Hall's line. They may know of or heard of a couple top picks and they'll forget about them until Rock mentions one on the broadcast. But if you're going to pay a team of writers to write about a Major League Baseball franchise that's the smallest market by far in all of the league, that draws just extraordinarily well...3 million, and we ended last year around probably 3.5 or so with the playoffs and we're on pass to surpass last years totals....you'd think the paper would put in enough friggin energy to at least give a cursory glimpse into what we have in the farm system. It's not hard. Look at who's starting. I'm not even asking them to do what they do for every one of the 30 undrafted Free Agents the Packers bring in where they get 3 scouts from the AFC or NFC and get their opinions and then evaluate them. I'm just asking the guy to pop in "Brewers top prospects 2012." I mean if this professional journalist REALLY wanted to put himself out there, he could pay for a BA subscription, or even just google "Jimmy Nelson scouting report," and along with his incredible peripherals(which I'm all but certain would suggest to Hunt that he'd be an execellent Quarterback because of his vision, but I digress) he would see that he throws 98 with the top slider in the system and a rapidly improving changeup and has the experts projecting him as a potential #2/3 workhorse type pitcher. And then he could see that he ranked about 7th or 8th on our pitching prospect list. Then he could take a look at the offensive prospects we have. I know, I know, I'm asking WAY too much of Mr. Hunt. It's not like he's a paid professional and expected to at least have a modicum of the information regarding the Brewers that most on here do. He's not stupid, just ignorant, and that's worse as a journalist IMO. In fact, that's the worst thing if you're a journalist.

I agree with the premise, but hasn't the shine on Billy Beane worn off a little? He rode three pitchers, and a couple MVP's to a great stretch, but what's he done since?

Wow. When you come into a season with as many potential stud pitchers in the minors, you seem to inevitably end up disappointed as a number of them will struggle, go on the DL, or have a long term injury.... This year it just seems like the guys we hoped would pitch well are pitching exceptionally well.....and a number of guys you didn't expect much from(not sure who thought Nelson would be hitting 98 and dominating this year) are breaking out.

Agreed. My hopes are for Taylor Green to hopefully be this kind of hitter, but so far the early returns don't look promising. I've been waiting for the first Taylor Green mention. I've thought for the last several years that Green has the potential to be a somewhat similar player to Loretta. A guy who can hit .300, carry a high OBP, play 1st, 2nd and 3rd(though not short). I don't think he'll ever hit for the average Loretta did in his prime, or the OBP, but will hit for a little more power. But I'm still hopeful that he can become a Loretta-esque player. And I agree, if you're building an all-time league with all time players and trying to build the best team possible, having a guy like Loretta may allow you to carry a guy like Tim Raines as well as another guy with big platoon splits the other way because he could do so much. If you really get down to it, he really isn't in THAT league, but if you start at say 1980 I would argue that he is.

Yost starting catcher wasn't in his mid 20's. Lucroy vs Damien Miller is a bit different. I don't quite get all the Kottaras love for a board that rightfully values sample sizes and defense so much. Kottaras really is still just awful defensively. After watching Lucroy wear down and really struggle the last two months of last season at the plate, and having him catch the 2nd most games in MLB (despite missing 2 weeks of the season), I want to see our backup more this year. If that's Kottaras love? Fine, call it that. But if he gets the platoon advantage, he is a solid weapon to have. I know he won't OPS 1.000 over the season, but I'd wager he could OPS .800 going forward. I would say that starting a guy who's a defensive blackhole like George Kottaras at one of the most important defensive positions if not thee most and a guy who's clearly a vastly inferior hitter to Lucroy should be getting 40 pct of the starts. The last thing I want to see from Lucroy in his prime is sitting on the bench 3 times a week.

If they do I think they keep themselves as a legit contender for the foreseeable future. Everything becomes a whole heckuva lot easier when you've got an MVP LF'er, a elite catcher(which it's a big early to call Lucroy, but it's certainly looking like it) a 1-2 punch with farm system chalk full of potential difference making pitchers. So I never really thought CC was going to sign here. The Yankee's always made it known he was going to be a Yankee. Prince was always a bad sign. Everyone agreed on that. But with Greinke, I think he's a unique guy, and his performances in NY may dissuade teams like the Sox and Yankees from going after him. The Cubs would seem to have little interest. The Rangers have Hamilton who I think they'll pay. The Angels only have so much to spend. We'll most certainly have to compete to sign him and I think on the FA market you're looking at 6 years and 140 million dollars or 5 years 120 with a 20 million dollar option or a 4.5 million dollar buyout would in this rare case be worth the long term risk.

It's 2012 and Profar is excelling in AA. He could easily be in AAA by the All star break, start next year in AA and be up next season. But even if he's NOT ready until 2014...so what? If we lose Greinke, guess what? We're not ready for anything until well after 2014 anyway. We'd be like the Cubs with Castro. Unless we locked him up like the Rays did Longoria, he'd be well ahead of our next potential window.

This is pretty much exactly what I would post almost word for word (so I suppose that means I think it is dead-on correct). The only thing I would add is that I think Profar might require more than just Greinke. It could be Greinke + K-Rod for Profar.... I agree. And I've mentioned those two players if they absolutely MUST trade Greinke. But to pry Machado from the O's, I'm thinking you might be looking at Hart and Greinke and perhaps paying some of the money. I think he's the top prospect in the minors right now with Profar second among position players. I'd guess that Bundy would be thee top prospect meaning the O's would probably want to have a small window to sign Greinke before they actually made the trade ensuring they'd have the pitching for the future. They've got a good young lineup, a LOT of #3/4 type pitchers, so if they could get Greinke and Bundy to front their rotation...it might be worth it for them. With Texas I think it MIGHT be most likely we get Andrus than Profar. Profar's the ideal player for the Brewers. A guy who carried a .400 OBP the second half of last year with a .390 OBP for the YEAR. Is a GG caliber defender, and has some very good power. So while I would actually prefer Profar, I think with the Rangers being so close the last two years to winning a WS, Grienke would easily make them the favorites to win it. So I agree Greinke+K-rod would get that done with us picking up maybe 5 million which is well worth it IMO. I also floated the idea of perhaps trying to go even bigger with Texas by trading for Profar and Martin Perez. That may take a Greinke+Axford type trade, and as much as I like Axford, that might be a better trade yet. Though Perez isn't throwing very well thus far in Round Rock, he's still a 21 year old power arm in AAA.

Well, I'm not opposed to that. Manny certainly has the ability to be a very good starter, and every year in the big leagues there are pitchers who have bounced around who perform very well after people have written them off. But he's not stretched out first of all, so you're going to need someone to eat up a lot of potential innings. You can't keep pitching one inning guys 2 innings when you have a short start. Our BP is going to totally fall apart. So we're STILL going to need someone capable of going multiple innings. Maybe this is a better idea. Manny starts the game, Thornburg comes in after 4 innings hopefully his first start if Manny can go 75 pitches and maybe Thornburg gives you 3 innings, less pressure, and you see what you've got after one or two of those starts. If Parra's pitching effectively and Thornburg's brilliant in short stints, you can't send them down in a year that you're potentially losing 3 of your starters. You'd get a look at two of your potential starters for next year(though as big a fan as I've always been of Manny, unless it's as a #5 with Greinke, Gallardo, Peralta, Thornburg and then Parra as your rotation, I'm not real confident in him over the long haul. By this time next year you should also have 3 more guys ready should the absolute NEED arise for AA guys to jump to the big leagues in Nelson, Jungman and Bradley. Not that it's ideal, but potentially.

With Estrada's injury looking pretty serious today, and IMO, it being unlikely he's going to make his next start, and with Peralta having a couple of pretty ugly starts back to back, AND with Doug Melvin saying just two nights ago with regard to Thornburg that a pitcher can "easily," go from AA to the big leagues, what are the chance that Thornburg jumps over Estrada and makes the next couple starts in Estrada's place? Now in fairness, Melvin ALSO stated that his preference was that a guy come along slowly and talked about how it CAN damage a player and how he prefers to have a guy make a stop at every level while he was talking about how you can, and again, he did use the word "easily," jump from AA to AAA. But I think if Estrada's injury is as bad as it looked to ME, and even if it wasn't, I think the Brewers just simply need a pitcher who can go multiple innings in Milwaukee up there in any event. I think you have to bring up Henderson in place of Cruz at the very least, and I think it'd be smart to at least bring up Thornburg and get him some innings...because if we have another short start, with the recent innings thrown by our pen, we definitely NEED some fresh arms. Thoughts?

I don't. All I need to know is there's a chance. Probably about the same chance Jim Carrey gets Lauren Holly in dumb and dumber(so you're telling me there's a chance!!). But at least he's not walking 6 batters an inning and actually had a clean inning. We know he was dominant in college. We know he threw in the mid 90's and had a nasty slider. That could develop into a good middle of the pen type pitcher. A Kameron Loe type pitcher. Probably not, but I'm excited at least that he's not just terrible in the low minors. As for Peralta, I think reports of his demise are a bit exaggerated. He faced a pretty damn good lineup, and we're talking about two outings that have skewed his season line. Still throws hard, was still getting ahead in the counts, and still getting GB's. Obviously Taylor Jungman's outing is more encouraging, but I'm not writing Peralta off.

First of all, you're right about the first part. A bit hypocritical. I should be clearer. I don't believe we're going to be rebuilding anytime soon because that, IMO would take all the momentum that the Brewers have built up, similar to the Indians of the 90's(though we've never been that good) with their attendance figures and ours would drop a great deal. And I don't think Mark A wants to or is willing to sit through 3-4 rebuilding seasons. I think the time to rebuild was when we had two years left with Prince, and that's when I was calling for us to rebuild and that's when it made the most sense. You had some very good prospects in the 5 we traded away, Lawrie would have made a great 3-4 with Braun, you'd have even more pitching than you have now.... So as much sense as it makes to rebuild, it doesn't seem like the Brewers have any interest in doing so. As for your salary commitments, I obviously expect the Mets to pay a significant amount of Santana's contract, I wouldn't bring back several of the players you cited, not that they'd be that expensive, and I think we'd have about 35-40 million more to fill out the roster. I think the Brewers payroll is going to be around 110 next season even if they don't bring back Greinke. My biggest fear is they spend their money on keeping wolf and giving Marcum a 5 year 70 million dollar deal or something equally ridiculous, or overpay for another pitcher who's clearly not worth the contract he's given. If we're going to max out, I'd rather do it for guys who are clearly worth the money they're given and then give the several guys capable of supplementing the roster a chance. Fiers, Maldonado, Schafer, Gindl, Gamel, Green, Thornburg(who if anyone caught the game last night Melvin said was capable of pitching in the big leagues right now, and you can "easily," go from AA to the Big Leagues..while then going on to talk about how he would prefer a stop at each level. In any event, he has plenty of time to make a stop in AAA before next season starts) as well as a number of other potential candidates. I also don't think you'd have any trouble moving Hart's contract. It's a one year 10 million dollar contract. Your wording there suggests it's a bad contract which I couldn't disagree with more.

Please explain why a young pitcher who's thrown 200 innings or there abouts and struck out 200 the last couple years and is 26 years old, locked up for the next 3 years wouldn't get you a guy who's likely to opt out after this year for a team that's rebuilding? It's a pet peeve of mine, but these absolute, matter of fact statements....I think the Mets would jump at Gallardo for Wright and I think the Brewers would turn that down.

Ok, scratch Wright and focus on Santana then. I think he's on his way to establishing himself as a elite pitcher again. Trade Hart for a top prospect. Gindl/Aoki man RF. We lose power, but again that third legit arm that will be around next year. And then throw in a guy like Jungman for Santana. Then just hope you can get enough offensively with Weeks bouncing back, Aram's normal summer resurgence, Braun, Lucroy, Gomez hitting well and a good CF platoon, a good RF platoon, though with less power and a 1-4 of Greinke/Gallard/Santana/Marcum. The Mets are not a contender, and they're in financial disarray...(though they're coming out of it, Santana has to be on the block).

Yes, I meant Jungman. I'd just eliminate Bradley, Thornburg and Hall from trade talks(I'm higher on Hall and he's low enough ranked it wouldn't matter). And for those who think the Mets are better than the Brewers, all I can do is laugh and try to remind you of a think called sample sizes. They're NOT better. For the comment about a team rebuilding, what exactly have the Brewers done to suggest they're rebuilding? Record payroll that's nearing 105 million? What? The Brewers are not and will not rebuild. I'd have had them rebuild the year they traded for Greinke and Marcum, but I'm so in love with Greinke, I'd was somewhat alright with giving away a Ryan Braun like player who can play 3rd base to get him as long as we held onto him. If we don't hold onto Greinke, that goes down as one of our worst off-seasons of all time.

I'm not. It's dishonest and biased. Bonds is clearly one of the greatest of all time. Each era has some black mark on it. He was in the top 20 IMO before he even started with the roids and would have ended up just below Willie Mays. That he went on such a historic tear while doing the same thing some speculate that up to 80 pct of the rest of the game was doing, it's hard to argue his place among the top 10 for me on a factual basis. But I don't like him either, so I won't sweat it.

Kinda a spinoff of the Baseball Reference ranking of best players of all time list. A little more goes into this for me because Ricky Henderson played the OF...which would normally make it impossible to crack, but as the best leadoff hitter of all time, I have to put him up there. I HAD to go with AL rules and play with the DH to get Ricky in there however otherwise you're leaving out Mays/Williams or Ruth. Just not plalusible. OF- Ricky Henderson/Willis Mays/Ted Williams IN-1B-Gehrig, 2B-Hornsby, SS-Arod(I know he's not "popular," but you cannot deny how great he's been. 7 seasons in which he challenged for 10 WAR), 2B, Roger Hornsby, 3B Mike Schmidt. C-Yogi Berra DH-Ruth Italics mean hit left handed.... 1-Ricky Henderson LF Most runs scored, by FAR most stolen bases, and a OBP of .404, and played very good defense. 2-Ted Williams Greatest hitter of all time IMO. If not for some jerk named Hitler I think he finishes with 4200 hits and 750 HR's. 3-Rogers Hornsby 2B Hit .402/.474/.690 with an OPS of 1.164 over FIVE SEASONS. Seriously, that's 5 YEARS with 615 RBI's and 598 runs scored and 42 and 39 HR's in there. 4-Babe Ruth DH C'mon, nuff said. 5-Lou Gehrig 1B The iron Horse, the greatest 1B of all time, never missed a game and put up video game like numbers. Underrated IMO only because he played with Ruth. 6-Willie Mays CF 660 HR's, one of the best defensive OF'ers ever as well. 7-Arod Could easily end up breaking the all time HR record, and for an 11 year stretch hit .308/.392/.598 with a .977 OPS while playing very good defense at Short and won 3 MVP's in that stretch, runner up twice and a 3rd place finish once. Also hit 513 HR's in that stretch, and stole 46 bases in one season. Find a SS that can contend with that.. 8-Mike Schmidt The greatest SS of all time IMO(unless you compare him to Arod, as much as I dislike him, Arod does beat him in total WAR, counting numbers and rate numbers). But 10 GG, 15 ASG's and just a great all around player. 9-Yogi Bera 10 World Series Wins. 7 years in a row in which he finished top 3 in MVP voting, and was a very good defensive catcher. Rotation Cy Young-Most may go with Walter Johnson, I'll go with Young. Walter Johnson Bob Gibson Satchel Paige(I don't care that most of it was in the negro leagues, he was a good pitcher as a 46 year old in the big leagues. He gets a spot for me). Greg Maddux-Normally I don't like the soft tossers, so I'd have gone with Randy Johnson, but Maddux is the exception to my rule(though if the first two played today they'd both be very soft tossers). CL-Mo Eckersley Fingers Wilhelm-First great "reliever." Randy Johnson-Loogy(I know he wasn't a reliever, but imagine him coming in vs lefties...he was scary). Sutter Gossage I'm sure there will be scores of those who disagree with Ricky Henderson being among this group, especially with all the power, but a guy like him who got on base like he did, turned it into a double like he did, turned it into a double consistently or even a triple, leads the league in runs and SB's all time. I'm thinking LINEUP. Not GOAT. Otherwise, Speaker, Aaron, Cobb would get the nod. So I'll be prepared to be alone in that one. Thoughts?

Are you really suggesting that talking walks is more a result of your stance than your ability to take pitches outside the zone and have a good eye at the plate? And it has nothing to do with how he starts his stance. It's about where he is when he's ready to make contact with the ball. Otherwise wouldn't everyone come out and get into some type of yoga stance? I mean, I don't think I've ever heard a more ridiculous idea for dismissing a players ability to draw walks, especially one of the greatest in the history of the games at doing so. I'm not dismissing his ability to take walks. I'm explaining some of what made him exceptional at it. You ask pitchers that faced him and they'll say how hard it was to get a strike called on him. He was such a threat on the bases, that a walk was equivalent to a double. He certainly knew this and made an art out of taking walks. He was a very good hitter too, of course, but not an all time great when actually swinging the bat. I think as a all time offensive player, he certainly ranks up there with the all time greats. Just pure hitting ability is a little different skill set though. Please do not do this. Please do not make a counter argument to mine by saying, "well if you asked the pitchers, they'd say." Basically just saying what you're saying and assuming because you believe it, that pitchers must also believe it. And no, his pure hitting, ie, swinging the bat and getting base hits wasn't elite. But would you rather have him or Ichiro?

Yeah, we're not talking Gomez good because he has a arm that would easily-easily play in RF, but he's got a very good arm all the same.

Do you mean Morgan's arm isn't that bad? Because Aoki's arm blows Morgan's out of the water and shouldn't even be compared to Damon. I assume that was a typo.

And what "metric," are you using to declare Aoki an inferior CF'er? You can't cite Morgan's defensive metrics when arguing who's better between he and Aoki as Aoki has 6 weeks in the big leagues. I'd rather have Aoki out there in every respect. And Morgan is a good OF'er. But again, this is another example where people just go to a website(IMO) type in a name, look at some numbers and make a decision over another player who hasn't even accumulated these stats yet.

I agree. And when you consider what we normally spend on a rotation. Heck, what we're spending this year, that staff wouldn't cost much more than what we're already paying. You take Greinke out of that however, Thornburg god forbid gets TJ surgery, and someone doesn't quite pan out and you have a very average rotation. Even if that happens WITH Greinke we still have a very good rotation with the hopes for a GREAT one. Only time will tell I suppose.

I realize I probably sound like a political fanatic babbling on a message board in which nobody on the board can actually do anything about it, so I have probably gone WAY overboard in my Greinke demands, I just think it would be Molitor-esque in the damage it would cause the Brewers. ESPECIALLY if the Brewers have a 80-85 win season this year. Couple that with the loss of any hope for the near future and I think 2.5 would be a great draw next year. At least with Greinke you have the excitement that you have some guys coming up like Gennett, your guys bouncing back(if they don't this year like Weeks) and then all the pitching that even the average Brewers fan knows about.