HiAndTight

I love this analogy. Still, when you have teams like Appalachian State beating big time D-1 programs, I think you just kinda deal with it. Success means different things to different people. You don't really eliminate D-1 BB because UW-Milwaukee will never win a Title(well...probably won't win a title). Kent State's an up and coming program. They wanna win their division in their conference. And I do kinda like the idea of moving up a league or down a league, but College athletics are too up and down. Guys are there for 3-4 years, so you can move up with your best team and then graduate all those guys. But in theory, I like that idea. Punish the tankers in pro-sports. But realistically, Soccer's the only sport big enough world wide to be able to do that IMO.

I kinda feel like the NFC North was a little like that for a while after Favre left. The Bears would have a big season, but they were never really a great team. It is amazing to watch New England though. I really do think they're just smarter than every other team. They had two backup QB's to Brady who are very good starters in the NFL right now at the same times. They don't NEED great players, Belichek just gets the most out of everyone. His arrogance is obnoxious, their conformity is irksome, but damn....he's made Brady's career IMO more than the other way around.

I really don't think it's a matter of him being capable. Like I said, that throw he made to Kumerow during the family night...it's just a practice, I get that, but it shows he's capable. That was 25 yards downfield and from the opposite hash and he put it exactly where he needed to, probably threw it 45-50 yards. But I also am just seeing him miss too many of these throws. Anyway, I do think the biggest area of this team that needs to be "fixed," in order to a legitimate contender is for Rodgers to get back to the level of play we've been accustomed to. I get that if you play good defense, get turnovers and then don't turn the ball over, teams have won titles like that, but I don't think this team can. We don't need 2011 Arod, but we need him to make the big play more consistently. That's kinda his thing, or it has been in the past. I don't want to see him throwing it up for grabs all the time, ala Favre, but maybe once in a while? You have big, physical athletes. Throw the ball up and let them go and get it. That throw he made AFTER the MVS throw where he didn't leave him enough, he threw the ball up to Graham in a crowded area. I thought he was going for it there, but found out later in that week that the Beers didn't get a couple guys off the field, so it was basically a free play. But it is an example of why he should throw it up. Of course there was the Eagles game when Graham decided to go up with one hand instead of two, but still. I'm not trying to pile on Rodgers here. That throw he made to Tonyan, rolling to his right and putting it right on Tonyan(Great catch as well), the throw he made to Graham when he was going up the field was great and then he threw one that looked like Byung-Hyun Kim with that low side-armed throw right before he got lit up by two defenders. So he's playing well...he just needs to hit those shots downfield. It used to be he'd hit an inordinate pct of them....that'd make all the difference for the Packers.

I think you're 100 pct spot on. I just think maybe because Aikman killed the Packers so badly, Packers fans still have ill wills? I think when you're calling a game at any level and you're a well known former member of that team, you tend to over compensate and I think Aikman does that. And him saying, "I hate to say it," is just him saying, 'I know fans think these calls are soft, but this is just how the game is now.' I just can't imagine how much he wishes those rules were in place when he played. He and Steve Young were two really greats had their careers cut shot and who took brutal beatings at the position. Hits that were as bad as the Mason Rudolph hit or the Burflict hit.

I saw his first snap. I was pretty surprised to see him to be honest. I want to say it was maybe the 3rd quarter that he got on the field on defense? He shot the gap and then reached out with his right arm and made a tackle. He got to the hole pretty quickly and made a pretty solid tackle. Other than that, there wasn't really much to see. Just seeing him reach back and make that play with that arm though should suggest the injury is pretty much healed.

What are you implying? HE'S IMPLYING THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE WHEN A BLACK ATHLETE CELEBRATES VS WHEN A WHITE ATHLETE CELEBRATES! THAT THE DIFFERENCE MAY BE RACIAL. Why do we whisper about this and play games by asking these questions? It's a fair question. There's implicit bias that sometimes we don't even know is there. I think it's obvious what he was implying and I am fairly certain you did as well and I think it's a fair question.

Hey man, nobody's forcing you. I feel like I just found one of those guys who was constantly tapping me on my shoulder for standing too much during Packers games. You did. The only part of this dumb thread that has any merit by pure coincidence is the bye-bye wave as it definitely would have been a taunting flag if seen by the official. You've got a point on that. If you get a 15 yarder it's not the end of the world, but it's not smart. But Jones was asked about it after the game and he said he didn't even remember it. I just liked that they were playing free and playing confident.

Oh...yeah, that's just awful. I saw a player....I think it was Nebraska vs OSU last weekend. The "Cornhusker," tackled someone for a loss on a jet sweep play maybe? And he was out there flexing down by 30 acting like he had just forced a fumble in a tie game.

Gifford looked really good. He was one of the bigs I was hoping the Bucks might pick up in the draft...prior to trading away that pick. But good to see a productive night from Bender, Robin Lopez shooting the 3. Other than that, I'd be curious what those who watched the game more closely thought.

Hey man, nobody's forcing you. I feel like I just found one of those guys who was constantly tapping me on my shoulder for standing too much during Packers games. I don't know if you ever played Football, but you can't play it with all the emotion of a Golfer. One of the things that's turned this defense around is their swagger. I saw Jones waving at Byron Jones, a cocky, elite Corner and I thought it was awesome. Finally this team has gotten the type of mentality they've just TALKED about having for years. Alexander, the Smiths, Jones, Rodgers...these guys have that arrogance/swagger. The best teams have it. Even the Pats. The Packers have lacked that emotional edge for years. Also...how are the Packers being poor "role models," by celebrating AS A TEAM after getting a big turnover? They go down by the fans and they have a celebration. With all due respect, who the hell are you to call this classless or to question their character? You questioning THEIR character for showing EMOTION while playing an EMOTIONAL game makes me question yours. Now I did think they were overdoing it a few weeks ago, but that's just because they got so many turnovers. Not because I was too uptight to watch a bunch of kids celebrate a big play. I find it pretty galling when people get upset because 20 year old athletes who are PAID to play a game for our ENTERTAINMENT actually do something crazy like celebrate. Don't get me wrong, I also like when Barry would just turn and hand the ball to the ref....but it didn't make him a better or more impact player than Deion who's go high stepping down the sideline. I think I'd just advise you following the SF Giants(or whoever else MadBum signs with next year) and the Cardinals. Or maybe just follow the Dolphins. They sure as hell don't do much celebrating!

I find this idea that Rodgers is somehow bullying LaFleur absolutely laughable. Just because he's a laid back young coach during the press conferences doesn't mean he's not fiery as hell during the games. He came up screaming at Rodgers two weeks ago, the ONE time I've seen any type of negative interaction between them.

I don't know if Rodgers has actually declined physically or if he's just playing a different style. There was one play when he had a clean pocket and he bailed out. Bulaga was running Lawrence out of the play and Rodgers had I think it was MVS open on a post and he bailed out and scrambled. It was late in the 3rd IIRC. It's so obvious that Rodgers hasn't lost any arm talent and he's still plenty mobile. That back shoulder throw he made on family night to Kumerow shows what he can do. I just don't think he trusts the WR'ers. Tonyan SHOULD be a matchup nightmare but it just feels like Rodgers is locking in on guys. And that's not something he's done in his career. I think it's a combination of him not wanting to take a hit and miss several weeks AND him not having this offense down like he has in the past where he just knows where guys will be. It's gonna take a full year for him to get this offense down, but he should have it down enough by the last half of the season to be able to start getting back to the type of offense we have come to expect. I'm definitely a Rodgers over Favre guy, and I think there were teams that Favre had that would have been much better with Rodgers, but if Favre had this group of skill players, I think they'd be producing at a higher level. Rodgers is not the type of QB who just "makes it work," with skill players unless he absolutely has to. Like at the end of the Cards Wild Card game a few years ago. Maybe I'm wrong and Rodgers has regressed...he's clearly not putting enough under some of those deep balls. He's got this NBA sized WR'ing Core. He has to start trusting them. Of course, as soon Tonyan does make a big play, he's out the rest of the game. They need to scrap the "get the ball to Graham," emphasis and the Lewis screen game and try and get Tonyan more involved, try to get MVS more involved early on. And definitely start working Shepard more. That guy has just an innate feel for setting up that double move or for getting open.

The next 5 games of the schedule aren't as tough as the first 5 games. Carolina, Detroit and Oakland are middle of the pack teams. SD is talented, and the Chiefs are obviously very good. I think that's highly debatable, and unknown honestly. Philadelphia could very well be the best team the Packers have played. The Raiders just beat the Bears, though the Vikings pounded them, but at this point it's hard to say the Vikings/Bears aren't middle of the pack. Detroit gave KC a fight and beat Philly. I'm not seeing a real definitive distinction between CAR, DET, OAK and the Bears and Vikings other than last season. You're right, I shouldn't have said it was definitively tougher. I believe it was however. KC is a juggernaut...like the 2011 Packers. But none of those other teams scare you. The Bears...that's a scary team. This may be the most talented defense they've ever had. I realize that's a big statement for a Bears team, but they've got the best defense anyone's had in a decade at least IMO. People focus on Mack and Jackson, but they've Hicks who I'd say is close to Clark in terms of impact, Goldman, Robertson-Harris. And Haha has been a perfect signing for them. With that pass rush, and those swarming LB'ers? I've love Trevathan, much less Smith, a LB'er with CB speed. The Lions are a division rival...and it looks like a Pats coordinator is finally working, but they don't have a ton of talent. They'll be tough to run the ball against, but we should win that game. Carolina is a average team, the Raiders are not a very good team. So it's really two games on the road vs VERY talented teams and 3 games vs teams who we could lose to, but we really shouldn't. Other than Denver, I think the 4 other teams we've played are better than those three teams. But we could certainly lose. Again, I expected a 4-5 type start to the season. Now it looks like it should pretty safely be 7-3.

That's really becoming my main concern. I think people are pre-disposed to just assuming we don't have talent at the WR'er/TE positions if we don't get production out of them, but we've seen what MVS is capable of, we've seen Tonyan's pure athletic ability and we've seen how sure handed Allison is. I'm also finally getting on the Shepard bangwagon. The way he can turn Corners around like he did when he ran that corner route in the pre-season and that out and up in the game today....he's obviously an elite route runner and I think he's got good hands. The problem as far as I can tell is Rodgers...I guess conservative nature. It's like he's going to make CERTAIN that the defense has zero chance to get their hands on the ball and he seems to be more cognizant of playing it safe as opposed to his MVP years when he just let it rip. He's overthrown guys the last two years now. Maybe he got used to older Jordy, Jones, Allison and the like, but he needs to put a little more air under the ball and let MVS go get it. That throw vs the Bears was great, but it should have been a TD. There was a throw where Allison got behind the D today and Rodgers missed him by several yards. And the most frustrating thing is you can see him make some of those throws if we're losing...but we're not putting teams away like we should.

The next 5 games of the schedule aren't as tough as the first 5 games. Carolina, Detroit and Oakland are middle of the pack teams. SD is talented, and the Chiefs are obviously very good.

Yeah, they're good, I do think that. I'd just like to see them finish a game. It's frustrating to watch. Definitely sloppy. Losing Savage is brutal. But when you get a 31-3 lead, teams tend to relax a little and it's not hard to make the game look much closer than it actually is/was. I thought that hands to the face on the Redmond INT was a bad call. He came up to the face and unlike earlier when Smith had both hands around his neck, he came off right away. But...we also got lucky with the King non-call. But this team is a long way away from where they need to be. They just haven't been able to finish teams when they should this year, but all 4 of the wins felt pretty in the 4th quarter. And Tramon Williams had an incredible game. Amazing what he's doing at...what, 37 years old?

Yep. I said before the season I'd be happy if they had 4 wins after the KC game given how tough the schedule was to start the season. Also...Jenkins is an absolute ANIMAL. I wasn't real thrilled to see the Packers take a center 44th overall, but he's just a mauler. So-so-so much better than Taylor. Able to get to the second level and make holes for Jones. Bulaga just almost completely shut down Lawrence today, one of the best DE's in the league. I hate the cliche, but next week is a "trap game." The Lions have played well and it's always tough at home. But Bears lose, we beat the Cowboys, pretty big for tie breakers and what not.

Are you serious? No, he's fine, it was a bad choice of words. Was pretty pissed about him committing that penalty in that situation trying to close the game out and committed an IGT overreaction. I figured. I actually think he should be playing more. He's among(or was) the league leaders in pressures per snap...but he's played so few. Honestly, my only complaint...Rodgers just doesn't seem to give his receivers a chance. There were a few plays where he just missed guys. Allison had a guy beat when they got a DPI that could have been a TD. He missed Allison again when he was running a post... He just requires far too much trust before he gives them a chance. Tonyan making that big catch and then going down with an injury was pretty disappointing. Still waiting for him to break out. I think people who want to see us add a WR'er or TE are going to be disappointed. It takes Rodgers about 2 years to start trusting guys. He's not going to do it in a new offense in the the middle of the season.

Of course you do. Yeah, I think you need to just kinda laugh these IGT's off. 4-1 with a brutal schedule to start the season and it really feels like we're just a garbage team. We beat the Cowboys pretty easily on the road. They got a lot of empty yards and a couple of late scores...and the offense is still very clearly a work in progress. It's really just that simple. But if you're not just rolling over teams, these threads are just toxic.

Are you serious?

Yes, one man basically turned Oregon into a mid-tier school to a legit title contender, Phil Knight. But it goes even deeper than that. There's a lot of money behind schools like Arkansas and the like. I could see Jerry Jones starting a marketing company and throwing a few million at them every year or how about Texas and Texas A&M? Those are maybe the two wealthiest schools in College Athletics. At least since the Okie State guy stopped giving hundreds of millions to them. T. Boone Pickett or something like that? Sounds like a General from the Civil War type name. But yeah, you're going to be left with scraps at a school like Wisconsin. And Wisconsin is NEVER going to allow the type of money to be spent on athletics that other schools do, even if you have boosters begging to pay.

Oh, you're talking about under the table money? Honestly, I don't think it's as big as some people are suggesting. I think it's more schools that have money, but aren't having much success. The Ole Miss types schools more than Alabama. And even then it's only the truly elite players and still, then the money is usually going to a shady uncle or something, not actually to the players. But yes, I think there is a lot of that happening in CFB. But that doesn't fundamentally change the game like openly paying players and basically taking away their amateur status does. But that's a totally different topic. Paying guys under the table vs just opening it up for bidding? The Badgers will not be able to hang with Nebraska if you can start paying players. The ONLY way this works if is you limit how much money you can get. They get a Football deal and then each individual conf. gets the same amount of money and then each player gets the same amount of money. But even then, you'll be cutting those 120 man off-season rosters down to 75 man rosters and there are going to be so many unintended consequences.

And it's Football. I assume quite a few people here played Football at some level. It's a physical sport. Just just turn the speed up by a factor of 10 and put giant 340 pound tackles that Clay's constantly gotta bang into and yeah, guys will get hurt! What bothers me more are the constant soft tissue injuries as some of those can be avoided by preparation...but even then, once you really pull one, they can haunt you. I remember I was playing intramural football(flag). Just screwing around, had some guys on my team playing. I pulled my Hammy and I felt like I'd gotten shot. 21, first time it ever happened. I had about 6 hours of therapy a day on it. Rested it, didn't start trying to work out again for 6 whole weeks. Wanted to make sure it was completely healthy. And....almost immediately into my first workout back, after going to the trainer for 60 minutes before hand to get it lose and I still pulled it again. The whole back of my leg was just black and blue from the knee up to the hip. Brutal injury. But once that started, I did Yoga and things like that. Jonathan Taylor seems like a guy who really understands at a young age how to take care of his body. I think some of these soft tissue injuries can just be immaturity if you have a hammy one week, a groin the next, the other hammy the next. You have to take care of your body better. Clay's issues were mainly hamstring...same one from his rookie year that kept coming back, he had that broken hand and then at the end of one year he hurt his shoulder on a cheap shot, but I don't think it cost him a game. That's a Warrior to me. Now a broken jaw? LOL..that's not his fault. It's not him just not "toughing it out," it's a broken jaw. A RIDIUCOUSLY large human being hit him with a ton of force and literally broke his face. I know most people on here understand this, but there are always a few fans who seem to get just to angry AT players who get injured. Like..they're the ones laying on the field after having gotten blindsided by Lane Johnson or whoever it may be.

I'd say given the injury situation, this is probably fair. No Adams. Some other huge pieces are questionable. If Bulaga can't go the whole game, Lawrence is going to terrorize the Packers backfield. I'm more interested in HOW the Packers play than if they get the W or not to be honest. Can they stop the run when they KNOW they're facing a great back and a very solid line(I say solid because without Smith it's no longer great). This is a game where they need a guy like Gary to step up. The Smith's have been exactly what we wanted. They didn't get paid to be a Mack type player or a Clowney type player, they got paid to be good, reliable players. But they're not beating the tackles in 2 seconds and just blowing by them. Gary at least has that ability. Dak's hard to bring down, so you need some free shots at him. Also....Kevin King, just get on some PED's dude. I don't care if you're suspended 4 games next year as long as I don't have to read about a new injury every week. So frustrating to watch such a talented player always dealing with these nagging injuries. I feel bad for the guy. I'm gonna guess the Packers end up losing 30-24. MVS will make some plays, but if they shadow him with Byron Jones, that's gonna be tough on him(though they play so much zone, I doubt they do). Otherwise, we need Kumerow, Tonyan to get going. Maybe this will force Rodgers to look to Tonyan 1st. I've seen several plays this year where it appeared from my view(behind a TV) that he had Tonyan and was locked in on Adams or someone else and missed him. If you can get Tonyan going, that could change your entire offense. So win or lose, I want to see Rodgers distributing the ball, getting some chunk plays and I want to see how we can run the ball with that Cowboys LB'ing core that might be the best in the league. At least in terms of stack LB'ers and coverage backers(which may not bode well for Tonyan with that freak LVE covering him). Man...that Adams injury really hurts though. Glad they're not rushing him back....but that's a killer.

I guess I'm surprised by this feeling. I've gone to both Packer and Badger games for years, and I've long felt that the atmosphere at Packer games is actually better. Maybe that has changed some over the past few seasons where they haven't lived up to expectations, though. I think there are noticably more visiting fans that make the trip and find tickets. I do wonder if they'll end up cracking down on perpetual sellers at some point. It seems very unfair to have a hundred-some thousand people waiting for tickets, while some guy sells his grandfathers old tickets that he inherited every year with no intention of going himself. Meh, maybe just differences of opinion or particular experiances I remember watching the Packers play Philly in like...I don't know, maybe it was 2010 when they lost to them at home and it was a must win game(almost) to get into the playoffs and they lost a close game and I remember thinking how quiet the crowd was then given some of the situations. I usually didn't really go to many of the Kent State type games, but when we played Michigan or Ohio State and the game was competitive, Camp Randall was rocking. Heck, even in the lower profile games it was nuts. But Camp Randall also wasn't built to try and make it louder. The Packers literally did that when they completed all their renovations closing both sides of the field. But I've been to most Packers playoff home games in the past 20+ years and it just never gets to that ridiculous level of loud it gets to in Seattle or KC or even Chicago.