don1481

Speaking of former number 1s, and I know this has been asked elsewhere but... any word on Rogers? Did he throw on the 7th as planned?

I don't know, Pogo... the guy's only got a career .772 OPS. And he's 24. Was last year a fluke for him? But I could see us trading Capellan for him... although the question then becomes: Do you move Braun to LF long-term and put Encarnacion in the long-term plans at the hot corner? I'm against that largely because we *can* find a LF with upside for the future and Braun's offense could put him in the top tier of 3B, far above Encarnacion.

Ok. I'll give on that. Maybe, maybe not. But it is a reasonable starting point. Both teams trading from strengths/depth to fill holes. Same could be said about Yo by other teams' fanshttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Which I do agree with - and have agreed with in other spots - but it seems like the general consensus among all the people in the "know" (i.e. Jim Powell, Haudricourt, etc) that Yo will be up this year at some point. Which makes someone expendable. And if we're going to get something in return for our investment, Vargas is most likely to bring the most back at the present moment. Of course, this is subject to change as the season progresses. I disagree. Some team - as the season progresses - is going to need another OF, and our asking price is MR help. And I think DM would get that. Yes - all those are valid MR options. I don't recall whether it was here or in the chat yesterday that I brought up Sarfate and Capellan as reasonable "plugs" to any MR hole. That's a pretty bold claim, Pogo. Here's what actually happened: I was going through the rumors that are linked to SI.com yesterday and I saw "Milledge trade bait for SP help." And I thought to myself "hmm... we could fill LF for years with him. The Mets need a SP. We have a SP that's really not in our long-term plans. Why not?" So I threw this idea out. But what he HAS done in AAA is continue the pattern of dominance he's had throughout his minor league career. Which at least gives us an idea as to what he brings to the table. Not true. We still have: Yo Villanueva Jackson In case starters get hurt. Seriously, though, if we have 4 starting pitchers go down, we might as well just call ourselves the April '07 Yankees and hope to heck our O carries us until we get some of our SPs back. In all, this idea was floated as a way to solve three needs: 1. Long-term solution for LF 2. Open up a spot in the rotation for Yo without weakening the team 3. Free up money through subsequent moves to keep the core of the team. The issues that you guys have brought up are: 1. Vargas alone might not get Milledge 2. Milledge may be overrated 3. Yo might not perform "up to expectations" 4. The subsequent trades might not land what I'm hoping they'd land 5. Vargas is pitching well right now. Why trade him? 6. We'll then be down to 2 "backup" Starting Pitchers (Villy and Jackson) in case something happens to our rotation

Pogo, if he was making 6 IP/start that's one thing. He's not even making 5 IP/start. 7 starts, 34 IP... roughly 80 pitches/start. At any costs? Did I say the guy was a bum; let's junk him? No. I'm saying this is a deal that gives us a chance to find a long-term solution to a hole that will surface after this season. And once again, dollars come into play here. We're still subject to a budget. We have to be realistic long-term here. Vargas will probably make $5 M next year in arby. That's far too much for us to keep him around. And getting rid of Vargas allows us to then trade Mench for, oh, middle relief help. We've then dumped $9 million through those two trades. Salary dump? No. Not when you're trading wisely to fill in other holes from your surplus. So your rotation after this is: Sheets Capuano Suppan Bush Yo Pen: Villy Dessens (sigh) Shouse Wise MR Help (from Mench trade) Turnbow Cordero Outrighted: Spurling. Sure, but if something like a Milledge IS available NOW, I say go for it. The long-term implications - namely, sustaining this success - are worth it. EDIT: I'm going to revise the trade to be Vargas for Milledge, straight-up.

Are we? Here's the issue: Vargas is already making 2.5 M this year. Next year, expect that to go around 5 M. 5 M that could be much better-spent. Even withouth Jenkins' contract on teh books, we need more room to keep key people. Vargas is not key. False. Vargas is only going a little over 5 IP/start this season. Putting someone else who can go a little longer into games would lighten the load on the pen. Al, a rotation of Sheets Capuano Suppan Bush Yo outweighs significantly a rotation of Sheets Capuano Suppan Bush Vargas You are losing nothing in your pen from this trade, as no ML talent is traded outside of Vargas. You can *then* flip Mench for, oh, MR help, allowing us to break in Milledge slowly in a platoon with Jenkins. AND the combined savings of bringing in Milledge? ~8M for Jenkins ~4M for Mench ~5M for Vargas That's $17 M saved, folks, for use towards keeping our "key" people. AND we have a potential answer in LF long-term. We may be winners nowadays but we still have to think long-term budget implications.

If you're talking about: 1. Sheets 2. Cappy 3. Suppan 4. Bush 5. Gallardo 6. Villanueva 7. Inman 8. Parra and so forth, I'm completely in agreement. Vargas can go. Already arby-eligible and far too inconsistent compared to 1-6 on that list. IF we can get a long-term solution for one of our long-term holes by trading him, I'd say do so.

We should have destroyed the Nats this series. 3-1 today? Not good enough!

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/roll.gif And that is the truth!

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Erin Andrews for Don's Wife 2008 campaign has officially been kicked offhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

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Really?? IMO Nix, if he doesn't make it back up to MIL after his rehab stint, should be outrighted off of the 40. The only one of that group that I'd be ok with in even a part-time starting role would be TGJ. I don't think, even if we have injuries this year, that we'll be nearly as desperate as needing Winkelsas or some other guy capable of receiving a daily Order of the Clubbed Seal on the big league roster. Because of the worries we've had in the past? If we are serious about winning and being able to sustain it, we need to shore up our OF long-term. As I've said, TGJ, Rottino, and Nix are not the answer for LF. And I don't really think Gross is, either. If it requires us trading away Doug Davis the Second (Vargas) plus a SP prospect that has already been passed by Yo and will probably be passed by others soon, so be it.

Vargas is already in the middle of his arby time. Bush hasn't hit arby yet. That's a BIG factor in this. Like whom? Mench and his OPS that is dropping faster than an anvil headed towards a cartoon's head? Gross, who, in all honesty, is a good #4/platoon OF? Gwynn, who is probably at least another full season away from being close to a starter? If anything, Melvin's shown better luck at getting nuggets and then flipping them. Where did Gallardo get into this discussion? Trading him would be stupid - especially in a trade for Milledge. Jenkins, possibly, but Mench should be gone. Either way - we'd need at LEAST someone to fill in Mench's role in the platoon, which would be Milledge... and someone to take over full-time in '09... which, again, would be Milledge.

I agree with Bush and Villanueva... however, Vargas makes much more sense. Agreed, but if we're in a situation like we are for next year (Jenkins should not be around, Mench is not a full time player, so who do we play in LF?) we should be able to trade from a position where we do have a bit of depth to fill a "need." And yes - Milledge is a sizable upgrade over Gabe Gross/TGJ right now.

As the article I linked to above said: I'm sure he knows that we'd not give up Sheets or Capuano for Milledge... but he DOES want a starter that can help with his rotation. Vargas would be the "now" guy and ZachJack would be the "later." I'm guessing that the Mets'll take anyone who's producing - remember, they're not the Yankees... they actually care about productive talenthttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

That's easy. He allows us to trade Shrek this year and we decline Jenkins' 08 option, allowing him to play LF full-time starting then. And we can then take those millions that were gonna gonna go to Jenkins and pay them towards, oh, Ben Sheets or CoCo, for example...

Let's revisit Lastings Milledge: Mets GM Omar Minaya is hoping to add a starter before the trading deadline Vargas + ZachJack for Milledge + low-level prospect...?

The way Houston's big league team is hitting, I suspect Chuckie's message may have have already found itself back in Phil's clubhouse.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/roll.gif Fourthed! I almost fell out of my chair at work laughing so hard!

Ben Sheets will homer in this series.

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Casey, I get the Whole "shadowed" thing - I came here Through the other link Based on how this thread Has progressed... maybe this move Was to wrong forum...? It's not so much an Issues thread now as a spoof Of the Haiku threadhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Why was this thread moved? It won't get nearly the views It got on O-T While the game thread Is nice and all, this thread will Be memorable It is better since The haikus here came out of Someone's complaints Its taken on a Life of its own and became A quite funny thread

CC, you are right I am calling you on it Six-syllable line! Is the offender Therefore declared the loser Of haiku post night?http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif