Gopher74

I don't think Teagarden has near that type of value.

Such as? Who are the players that people have this love for? DLR was a guy with a fantastic arm, and a lefty to boot who's still relatively young. It's not exactly a crazy idea to entertain the idea of bringing him back, nor does it mean that we're trying to "relive" the 90's. And by the way, we're not suggesting that we waive Gallardo for him. We're talking about Seth McClung.

Because he came off a career year in St. Louis and dominated the Brewers every time he faced them for years. And what do we get in return? A mediocre year for big time money. He wasn't coming off a career year. He was better in 04 and 05 and you could argue that he was better in 03 as well. And honestly, we haven't paid "big money" for him just yet either. We're paying him about 15 over the first two years when his no-trade is in place, and then when he has just a limited no-trade, he gets his bump in pay. All the same, this doesn't mean that he's really just Claudio Vargas with a different number.

AL WEST 1. Mariners 2. Angels 3. Rangers 4. A's AL CENTRAL 1. Indians 2. Tigers 3. White Sox 4. Royals 5. Twins This is the best division in my opinion. Each team will get 80 wins AL EAST 1. Red Sox 2. Blue Jays 3. Yankees 4. Rays 5. Orioles I don't think it's that impossible that the Blue Jays actually win this division this year. I think that the Jays finish in 2nd, but I could see the Sox and Yanks flipping as both have questions about their rotation. So much will depend on the young arms in both situation. How much do you think the Sox wish they'd have given up what the Twins asked for now? Throw Santana into that rotation, and I believe they're by far the best team in the game. AL WILD CARD: Tigers AL CY YOUNG:CC Sabathia AL MVP: Alex Rodriquez NL WEST 1. Dimondbacks 2. Dodgers 3. Rockies 4. Padres 5. Giants I know many don't believe the D-backs were as good as their record last year. I agree, however I think that Randy Johnson will be back this year as their number three behind Webb and Haren, and that's a helluva 1-2-3. They also have Davis and Owings at the back of that rotation which will be solid, a very good BP even without Valverde, and I really like that young lineup. Upton isn't ready to be a superstar just yet, but I think he'll be good, Drew's going to have a big year, Jackson, ext..I think their offense will rank in the middle to bottom half of the NL(8-10) but I really like them in a short series, and I think that they'll have enough to get to one. NL CENTRAL 1. Brewers 2. Cubs 3. Reds 4. Cards 5. Pirates 6. Astros I just hate the Cubs. NL EAST 1. Mets 2. Braves 3. Phillies 4. Marlins 5. Nats The Braves have a really underappreciated team in my opinion. I still think John Smotlz is the best big game pitcher of my generation, Hudson's very solid. They need to solidify the backend, but who doesn't. The thing is, that offense is really good. Escobar could be a stud at Short, I like Kelly Johnson and his OB, Chipper's a stud, McCann should bounce back, Tex is a big time player and should be better in his second year in the AL. Frankly, I think that they win this division again, but with Pedro coming back, and Maine, Perez to back up this guy they picked up from Minnesota with their lineup, the Mets are the safer bet. NL WILDCARD: Braves NL CY YOUNG: Johan Santana NL MVP: Mark Texiera NL Playoff's- Wild Card Round Brewers vs Mets-Mets in 5 D-backs vs Braves-D-backs in 6 NLCS D-backs over Mets in 6 AL Wild Card Round Mariners vs Red Sox-Sox win 4-2 Indians vs Blue Jays-Indians win in 7 ALCS Sox vs Indians-Indians win in 7 AL CHAMPION: Indians NL CHAMPION: D-backs WORLD SERIES CHAMPION: Indians

Agreed. I didn't like the signing, and I don't like him at 42 over 4, but I'm glad that we structured it like we did, and really believe the Mets will be a team that's going to come calling about Suppan next year. A team that wants a reliable guy after losing Pedro and possibly Perez this off-season, and having that solid ace at the top of their rotation. A team in a pitchers park, with money, and a great offensive lineup that can get Suppan 15-17 wins with an ERA around 4.25-4.50. That said, people use the fact that he is overpaid right now, and take that a step too far by saying he shouldn't be in the rotation. He's a solid pitcher who's very good in the second half of the year. You've got Sheets who's an ace, Gallardo who can be your number 2 this year, and Villy and Parra who can both be much better than the average 4 and 5, and all you really want out of that other spot is a reliable guy who's going to keep you in the game more often than not. That's what Suppan does. Not sure why there is so animosity with regard to Suppan.

Yes, and again, three times last year Suppan gave up more than 4 ER's, so I don't know how you can possibly "count" on him to give up 5 ER's. And who exactly would take Suppan's spot in the rotation right now? Naverson? Maybe Jackson? I don't get it.

That's a pretty poor way of judging consistency. As the poster said, Bush was far more likely to have that big blowup than Suppan was. Suppan gave up 9 to Minnesota, and then twice other times he gave up 5 runs, but that was it. 3 times last year he gave up more than 4 runs. I like Dave Bush a great deal, I just don't see how you can possibly say that Dave Bush is better, or has performed better unless you just chalk up luck to the large discrepancy in their numbers the over the last 4-5 years(or all of Bush's career).

I don't see how the A's are anywhere near .500 this year when they're a worse team than last year. As for the M's, they've vastly improved this year, and they were in it all year last year. I think they're a .500 team at absolutely worse. I think that this is the M's division without Escobar.

I doubt anyone. I think we all have better sources of Brewers insight than X-box.

The thing is that Bill wasn't just throwing those numbers out there. He was reporting it as told to him by Ted Simmons. Untill some other information comes out, I am sorry, but I am going to go with that information over your assumption. Yea, I'd have to agree. What Ted Simmons has to say on the subject means more than what someone who's seen him play an IF position and doesn't believe that what he did there means he could reach those numbers. That's far from an exact science. I think there's some value in Blazers analysis, but I don't think that it's all that important as related to the catching position.

It also doesn't scream that he's stalled. And he is a catcher. You can't say, "if he wasn't a catcher, he wouldn't look as good". He is a catcher. That's the entire point. Offensive expectations out of that spot are less than other spots, and Salome is more than meeting those expectations. And if he can hit the ball hard at 5'7 in A ball, he can do it in AA, AAA, or the big leagues. He's not going to lose power because he's short.

I think it's absolutely laughable to say that Soto is above Martin or Mauer, so whatever link said that is ridiculous in my opinion. Soto has a ton to prove, namely that he can either maintain a .474 BABIP, or that he can be a vasty superior player to what he's been his entire career up till this point. Yea, he maybe solid, but almost nothing suggests he's going to be anywhere even approaching the catcher that Martin is, or Mauer is.

Yea, and I'm really excited about the prospect of Carbbe coming back to the Brewers. He'll likely end up in SD after the Brewers receives a bag of balls for him, but I just don't get why we wouldn't want him back. He could step right into Counsells spot next year, and you save 3 million dollars.

YES WE DID!!! Not sure why, I just felt the need to keep pace with you by yelling for no apparent reason. However, to correct that absolutely ridiculous statement that we didn't make any moves. 1-Cameron Saying that he won't put up better numbers than Mench or Jenkins did last year is to not pay any attention whatsoever. Their collective OBP in a platoon was what? Maybe .310(.319/.305).....315? Cameron playing in pitchers parks all of his career had put up .345 or so OB's. That's an upgrade. He'll likely hit for at least as much power, and is a GG'er. Now, as for your "we move an OF'er to the IF and an IF to OF, I'm sorry, and I'm trying not to step over the line here, but are you kidding me? Yes, and we "brought up a minor leaguer last year to play 3rd base". If only we could make every situation so simple. We moved an OF'er(Hall) who has been an IF'er every-single-year of his career back to 3rd base in what will be a monumental upgrade defensively if he's only slightly below average. That's not a push in any reasonable reality imaginable. Then we take the worst defensive player in baseball and move him to the least important position in all of baseball. This mind you is a player that some feel is more suited to play CF because of his athletic ability. Great speed, great arm, we'll see how he does, but he can't cost us 1/10th as much as he did at 3rd. Finally, you get a 3 time GG'er, and 3 time GG runner up in CF. What was our biggest problem last year? Defense. We made giant upgrades there, and that's a "push"? The Brewers pitching was better than the Cubs pitching when you take out defensive factors, so to call that no improvement is just flat out silly. 2nd-Gange Question mark, sure. Likely won't be quite as good as Cordero, but he's also been very good every single time he's been a closer in his career, and he's two years removed from surgery. We'll see. 3rd-David Riske Just look at his numbers before you say he wasn't a move. 4th-Salomon Torres The guy was fantastic from 04-06. He was a little bit banged up last year with his shoulder, appears to be healed. Could be a huge upgrade. 5th-Mota Really looks good in Spring. Again, could be. Hell, you can argue that he won't be, but with relievers when the goal is to essentially hope that they bounce back, we've got a lot of good arms to do so with. 6th-Kendall .270/.370 with ChC last year(approx). He can move. He's a better defender. That means he's better than Johnny Estrada. Argue how much better all you want, but don't say with a straight face that he's not better. Projects to have a OBP around .345. Explain how that's not superior to the .295 that Estrada had last year? 7-Braun for a full year. 8-Gallardo from Mid-April on 9-Villanueva 10-Parra These are all moves that we made that should suggest we're going to be better than last year. Some in major ways such as number 1, and others possibly in less impactful ways. But what I find to be the most ridiculous is this suggestion that we were only going to improve if we went out and spent 150 million dollars on 2 players. We're an incredibly young team. I could also throw in a healthy Rickie Weeks to that list. As for the pitchers comment, I'd rather not even get into that one. I'm not sure what is so appealing about the Jon Lieber's, Rich Hill's, Ted Lilly's of the worlds over the Villy's, Parra's, and Gallardo's, but whatever. To each their own I guess. I'm just not counting on several pitchers to exceed expectations again this year.

Pitt has a pretty decent rotation. I don't see them going after him. Duke's in a battle right now to win a spot, and while you can argue over how good he is, I doubt they'd want to bring in a guy like Vargas to start over him when they have a number of good young starters to go behind Gorzalanny, Snell, and Maholm.

I can agree with that...his arm is bad. Not Pierre/Gonzo bad, but bad, and his range isn't what it used to be, but it's better than it used to be. I do think though that he's a better option than Gross. I trust Lofton more in PH'ing situations, and despite the fact that Gross has at times carried a decent OBP, but he didn't last year, and he's not anywhere near as reliable as Gross. Again, he's what we really, really hope that Gwynn can be the first 25 games as a starter, and what we hope he can be as a bench player.

He made 1.1 million dollars.

I'd hope you wouldn't mind picking up the top catching prospect in baseball. He's a stud. I'd love to have him, just not for Hart, Hardy, Weeks or whoever else we'd have to give up. If Carlos Lee had another year when we dealt him, we might have been able to get Salt, but not for much short of that.

Exactly, these decisions aren't made in a vacuum and they're not made on message boards. If his shoulder feels just fine and he experiences no discomfort, there's no reason to worry about it. Some pitchers have issues early in their career, and then don't have them later on. Some will always have it no matter how little they pitch. Of course you don't throw him 300 innings if his arm feels good, but you can go 170 and maybe even past it depending on the situation. And yes, the only real issue I have with Yost for the most part is how he handled the pen last year. I love how he handles young players pretty much across the board. He's always done a great job with the young guys in the big leagues, and the young arms.

Actually, Parra has had 3 consecutive years of shoulder problems (2004-2006): Great. That doesn't mean that he's "all but had his shoulder replaced". That's still a grossly exaggerated statement. So let me get this straight: You want to put Parra, who has a documented history of shoulder problems, at a much higher workload than he's ever seen before? Even though he wasn't 100% healthy for all of 2007? Are you talking about his thumb? I don't see how that's even relevant. Otherwise, not sure what you mean by "wasn't 100 pct healthy for all of 2007". He was. His arm was fine the entire year. Second, I don't know that I said I "wanted" anything. I stated that he'd likely have thrown 150 last year as he was at 133 when he went down after being moved into the starting rotation and didn't experience any shoulder or elbow issues. I don't consider going to 170 to be "a much higher workload". This also has little to do with my wants or wishes. It's not that Parra missed one year; it's that he essentially missed large chunks of three seasons because of shoulder issues. Yes, I'm well versed on his shoulder issues. I also think that's been covered ad nauseum on this thread. We all get it. He's had a history of shoulder injuries, but we either put in him the rotation, or we keep him down in AAA if you don't want to go over 150 for us this year. I'd rather go with someone who can go 6 or 7 innings throughout the year. If Parra does make it through 170 IP this year without issue, then by all means take the kid gloves off - he'll be able to handle 200+ in 2009. But I just do not see the reason for the Brewers to push Parra too hard this season without a close watch on IP and pitch counts. " Well, that's different than what you said earlier, but you and I clearly have differing definitions of "too hard". I think I've said that he should be able to go 170. I honestly don't know what you're arguing about if this is the case. My entire argument was based on the premise that he COULD pitch 170 innings. That's what you argued. Now you're saying that's what he should pitch? "Win now" does not mean "sacrifice the future to do so." Obviously. Again, who ever suggested that it did. You're not exactly informing us of anything in this lesson. I fully understand that Parra's been hurt, and I get that you're not suppose to sacrifice the future. I guess I don't agree that the Brewers future will fall apart if we throw Parra for 170 innings this year. As for the rest, alright. I don't know what makes you think that they'd all the sudden limit Parra to 4 or 5 innings a start in AAA when they'd be trying to keep him ready for Milwaukee. I don't know how anyone could think it a wise idea to have a guy go from starting for 4 innings to starting in the big leagues asking him to go 7, or in the playoffs. Frankly, I'd rather set him down for 15 days, and give him a break than waste 45 innings in the minors if he's really throwing the ball that well. But again, I don't know what the point of this entire argument is when from my very first post I've argued that he could and should go 170, and now you've stated the same thing.

Nasty change, not curve. Hoffman's change is his best pitch, not his curve. I don't even think he throws a curve much. All the same, I need more than one AB in order to call someone clutch, or the guy I want up in a big spot.

Ooh...way, that one still has to be very uncomfortable for Sabean.

I highly doubt he would have gone 150 last year even if he didn't have the freak thumb injury. I think DM is a little wiser than to let someone with a long, long injury-filled past pitch the most innings of his career after not even throwing 100 for the past several seasons... due to injury, no less. Well, he was at 133 when he hurt his thumb late in August. You don't think that he could have gotten 3 more starts that year? I don't agree at all. No, but IMO it applies even more strictly when you're dealing with a pitcher whose shoulder has all but been completely replaced due to injury. I'm honestly surprised he even went 132 last season given his past; I probably would have limited him to closer to 125 At some point he has to pitch a reasonable amount of innings. You're not saying he's not going to be a regular starter until he's 27 or 28 years old. so he'll maybe have 2-3 years in his prime? You're also assuming that he doesn't get injured, or that the extra 20-30 innings are the final straw. And finally, all but had his shoulder replaced? C'mon, I've had a cadaver ligament put in my shoulder. Manny Parra did NOT all but have his shoulder replaced. That's a grossly exaggerated statement. The concern is if we let him go Kerry Wood/Mark Prior and up his innings and pitch counts indiscriminately, we most likely have someone who will never be able to pitch again because he'll have blown apart his arm. I don't believe anyone but one poster suggested doing anything like this. Wood and Prior threw 120 pitches to 130 on several occasions and pitched well over 200 innings. We're talking about 170 with pitch counts. Those two don't even belong in this conversation. Nobody's suggesting that we abuse him to that degree. There's a huge difference between what you're suggesting and what those two did. I've explained elsewhere how the Brewers could keep Parra at under 170, so I'll spare the details here, but basically it will involve him going back to AAA after Yo comes back and being on very strict innings limits and pitch counts. Drwood's made a good point. With a pitcher who has had injury issues, I don't want to waste his innings in the minors. Not when you're talking about an inning a week difference. And finally, as I've argued, you can't use the 30 inning a year rule as a absolute, otherwise if a pitcher misses an entire year, then they're going to need about 5 years to get up to a normal Inning count. What, start him out at 30 innings, then go to 60, then 90...obviously that's not realistic, but I'd argue that if a pitcher was healthy all year, and then did something like break a thumb on a bunt, you can reasonably assume that he can go from the 30(Which I've always heard was 40, but let's say that the number thrown around on this board is correct) to the 45 or so that would take Parra to 170.

Think the Giants will regret the "Wayne Franklin for Carlos Villanueva" deal when we face them in the 4th game of the season?

I doubt it. He'd of thrown 150 last year at least if not for a fluke thumb injury, so it's not like his arm couldn't handle it last year. I highly doubt he only throws 150 unless he's not effective this season, in which case, he'd be sent to AAA, and still throw that many. The 30 inning a year rule doesn't apply as strictly when a pitcher has a season in which he gets injured, and especially not when he gets injured with something unrelated to throwing. I mean, he went from 86 to 132 last year.