Crewin06

Whatever Peavey. We are not going to agree. We keep going around in circles. I thought we were talking about Brewers Prospects and prospects in general making it to the majors. Not the scouting department. Villanueva is a Brewers prospect that has made it to the majors. Another thing to note is that Fielder, Weeks, and Braun are all top 10 picks. The Brewers won't get as good of talent in the middle rounds. Now they could find someone as good. However the probability is not as high. As for Vargas's 3 year stretch. I put it down. I just didn't label it. Isn't the last year and a half more important though. Whatever. I've conceded that Buehrle is the better pitcher. And it's nice that Buehrle would upgrade the bullpen. I just don't think it is needed. Especially with a 6 game lead, Brewers winning 8 out of 10 of Vargas's starts and Gallardo coming up at the end of the season to solidify the bullpen. Either way I made my argument I am not going to continue this. It's wasted alot of my time and it seems like we are rehashing things said 5-10 posts ago. I would be all for making trades to make this team better for now and in the future, however it seems like you just want to make trades to make this team different. We'll see what happens at the deadline. Go Brewers.

Because hitters usually move quicker than pitchers. And why do you keep leaving out Villanueva. He didn't pitch an inning above low Rookie ball before he got to the Brewers. He is a brewers prospect. In the next 3 years you will probably see Yo, Inman, Parra, Dillard and Thatcher all be on the big league roster compared to zero for the hitters. Big deal. So the Hitters arrived before the pitchers. Laugh at Dillard all you want but he has succeded at every level. Maybe he won't be able to make the jump. However I wouldn't count him out and he will get plenty of chances to prove himself. Actually if you looked at it. The platoon of Jenkins and Mench is outproducing Dunn in 2007 and It is damn close for the three year split. I will admit though Dunn would be a better option. But not that big of one to justify parting with anything of substance. I don't really care anymore. Like both of us have said we have differing philosphies on the way the brewers should develop this team. Buehrle had a 5.00 ERA last season and his 3 seasons leading up to 2007 is a 4.00. While Vargas had a 4.9 ERA last season and a 5.11 ERA. Buehrle is doing it in the A.L while Vargas did it in the N.L. Their stats over the last year and a half are very similar but since Buehrle did it in the tougher league, I will admit he is the better pitcher. But that does not justify trading one of the best prospects in all of minor league baseball for 2 months of him. Maybe it does upgrade the pen by replacing the weakest link but in the post season the weakest link rarely gets to pitch and the 5th starter usually moves to the bullpen anyways. If you want to trade lesser prospects to try to upgrade the bullpen or rotation, I am all for it. However you don't trade 2 of the best prospects in all of baseball for marginal upgrades. Really if what you care about is the future of this franchise in left field (that is why you brought up the age, right) You really think the Brewers would be able to sign Dunn in 1.5 years to a long-term contract and still keep around Fielder, Hardy, Weeks, Sheets, Hall and the rest of the group? Lets just agree to disagree

Well, since 1993 in terms of position players, you have: Mark Loretta, Geoff Jenkins, Bill Hall, Ron Belliard, Corey Hart, Prince Fielder, JJ Hardy, Rickie Weeks, Tony Gwynn, Ryan Braun. In terms of pitchers, you have: Ben Sheets. Ouch. Way to take half of my quote, anyways good point So before you had the Prince, Hardy, Weeks, Gwynn, Braun, Hart Barrage of the past 2+ Years the tally looks closer to Lorretta, Jenkins, Hall and Belliard compared to Sheets Wow that is a huge Gap in talent. I think the pitchers actually win the all-star game appearances. Can we agree that the Brewers were not good at drafting and getting up prospects during the 90's and early 2000's So the Melvin Era pitchers have Villanueva (he was our prospect) , 3 homegrown pitchers in AAA that could contribute to most staffs right now in Gallardo, Dillard, and Thatcher. The gap closes considerably in the Arms vs. bats race. Even after those 3 graduate to the majors which they probably will either this year or next our next closest prospects that will make a big impact in the big leagues are probably 2 pitchers Inman and Parra. So lets just agree that the prospect bats arrived before the prospect arms. Yeah it hasn't evened out yet but over the next 3 years I think it will be remarkably close to 1 to 1. How about recently? Mike Jones, Manny Parra, Ben Hendrickson, Dana Eveland were all highly touted pitching prospects under this administration. Things haven't exactly worked out well in those aspects. And that doesn't even mention Mark Rogers, who's career never really got off the ground to the point where he was very highly touted to this point. What highly touted position players have flamed out? Dave Krynzel. Well Manny Parra is all of 24 and still in the system and pitching well. He'll probably make it to the show. Dana Eveland is all of 24? this year. And he did his job. He was a main part of a trade to aquire a starting pitcher and a starting catcher. Hendrickson was a headcase and never had the pure stuff of Inman or Gallardo and Mike Jones got injured. Lets also note that none of those 4 ever showed the complete dominance of all levels of minor league ball with the ERA, WHIP, K's, and everything else that Gallardo and Inman have at the ages they did it at. They were pitching prospects but not THE PITCHING PROSPECT in all of minor league baseball like Gallardo and Inman are. I guess your right. This is where the conversation starts and ends. I like production speaking you like the name recognition. In Vargas's starts this year the Brewers are 8-2 and Vargas has a 3.6 ERA. Would Buehrle be an upgrade? probably. But what would he really improve? He would probably give us a slightly better chance of winning going forward but How much of a better chance and it is our 5th starter. Would I like to add Buehrle. Sure. But not at the cost of the best A+ pitcher in all of baseball and probably pretty soon the best AA pitcher in all of baseball. Inman is on the fast track. He will probably be in a position to be a major contributor during the '08 postseason and beyond. I don't want to give that up for 2 months of Buehrle. As for Dunn. Yes he is probably a better option than Jenkins/Mench. But how much are the Brewers actually gaining to give up a starting pitcher, the best AAA prospect pitcher in all of baseball and another outfielder? 2007 Jenkins vs. Righties .309 /.384/.577/.961 2007 Dunn vs. Righties .321/.372/.581/.953 2007 Mench vs. Lefties .311/.317/.459/.776 2007 Dunn vs. Lefties .250/.321/.447/.768 2007 might not be a fair comparison so lets look at the 3 year splits from 04-06 to get a better understanding. '04-'06 - 3 year split Jenkins vs Righties .297/.366/.511/.877 '04-'06 - 3 year split Dunn vs. Righties .253/.390/.560/.950 '04-'06 - 3 year split Mench vs. Lefties .307/.379/.590/.969 '04-'06 - 3 year split Dunn vs. Lefties .241/.359/.477/.836 Plus I would consider .75 Jenkins/.25 Mench to be a better fielder than 100% Dunn. Now I am not stupid enough to think just because the splits are better that Jenkins/Mench is a better Left Field option than Dunn. However I don't really think that Dunn would be that much of an upgrade to that position to justify trading a decent starting pitcher, the best AAA pitching prospect in all of baseball, and another outfielder plus add salary to get a minimal upgrade at the position. Especially considering that we would be trading Gallardo to Cincinatti where he would be able to haunt us for the next 10 + seasons. It is just not a smart baseball decision for a small market franchise. So I guess you are right. This little difference in philosophies is probably where the conversation should begin and end.

Villanueva came to this franchise as a 20 year old without ever even playing in A- ball. I think he is pretty much home grown. As for no pitchers making it to the majors recently. Fine but the brewers haven't produced a lot of position players either before the Hardy, Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Hart barage the last couple of years. So it pretty much boils down to the brewers not being to good at drafting and developing players during the 1990's. And just because we sucked at drafting and developing players in the past doesn't mean we are going to continue to be aweful at it. Again the brewers had pitching prospects before, but they have never had these type of pitching prospects (Inman and YO). I would rather stick with them and try to develop them than trade them away for instant satisfaction that won't really create that much of an upgrade.

I Couldn't agree with you more. But I don't think 8th is that good of a spot for him. He would never see a strike and still have a hard time walking. # 7 I think is his perfect spot.

If it is Inman straight up for Buerhle it is better but I still wouldn't do it. We have 3 top notch starting pitchers (Sheets, Cappy, Suppan) with 2 more starting pitchers that could be top notch by the end of the season (Vargas, Bush) with two more that would be starters on most staffs (Gallardo and Villanueva) There isn't really a big need for another starting pitcher right now. Maybe that will change come the deadline but I don't think it will. You're acting as if the Brewers have never had any pitchers who tore up the minors or lower minors either flame out or blow out their arms between there and MLB. For the record, how many home-grown pitchers have the Brewers brought through the minors to have success in MLB in the last 10 years? The answer might surprise you. You're also right that Milwaukee hasn't really produced a lot of pitching in the past and there has been some burnouts but before Hall, Fielder, Hart, Hardy, Weeks and Braun came to the majors Milwaukee hadn't produced to many hitters either. So what do you do stop drafting? No you keep on plugging away. Villanueva made the majors and has done well. Yo could probably be starting in the majors this year. Just because other pitchers have burned out doesn't mean these two will. And again, trading one or two prospects is NOT mortgaging the farm. When you also realize that you're potentially adding an additional 1st round pick and sandwich pick back into the fold in 2008, I think it makes it even less like mortgaging anything. And it should be worth pointing out that Salome did not have a great year at West Virginia in 06. I agree we can afford to deal some prospects. And it isn't mortgaging the farm. However small market teams shouldn't deal top 20 prospects in all of minor league baseball for a 2 month rental and they definitely shouldn't deal 2 of their best 3 prospects for 2 two month rentals that don't really even fill a postional needs. As for the two picks you are right. It could be a first rounder and a supplemental. But it could also just be a supplemental or a supplemental and a second or third rounder. Either way whoever they draft probably won't have the ceiling that Inman or Gallardo have. Now they could, Dr. Z has been very good in the scouting department over the past couple years at unearthing 2-5th round picks. But it is unlikely. Personally as of right now I don't really think they need to make a trade. The Brewers are stocked pretty well right now and look to be the clear cut favorite to win the division. After they make the playoffs it is a crapshoot in my opinion. If they do make a trade I would like to see them deal players like Zach Jackson, Charlie Fermaint, Lorenzo Cain, or the Hurricane. Players that the Brewers have a surplus of their types in the minors and don't have the rediculous potential that Yo or Inman have.

That's more than fine. Actually that was my point. Buehrle is a year removed from a 5.00 ERA and Dye isn't playing that well right now. Both are free agents after this year and yes we will get draft pick compensation for both, but that process might force us to retain Dye for a figure well and above what we would want to pay him (see Grafinino) You act as though this year is the only year you want the brewers to be good. Right now the brewers are built for a decade of dominance in the central and you want to trade the best pitcher in all of A+ ball (Inman) and our 3rd best prospect (Salome) in a pretty good system for a couple of stop gaps at positions we don't need. Plus the new playoff system in baseball creates a crapshoot. Rarely does the best team in all of baseball win. The Brewers just need to get hot at the right time and ride it to the championship. Like pogokat said I don't think the upgrade really justifies mortgaging the farm.

I would love to play Brian but I am going to that game. The following week I would be up for it.

Lets see if this little fact changes any proposals Both are free agents after the year. The most I would give up for Buehrle is Vargas and maybe Zach Jackson. For Jermaine Dye a 33 year old corner outfielder with a .742 OPS this season I would give up Gabe Gross. So for both I would give up Vargas, Jackson and Gabe Gross.

So does anyone feel sorry for Gilbert at all? I think she should be locked up too or at least lose her job. She has two kids with him. She files two restraining orders THEN marries him. Then files anoter restraining order. Hey I ain't sayin she's a gold digger, but she ain't messin with no broke (expletive)

I think mine was also Major League. It was definitely the first one where their was swearing in the captions. "These guys are sh*tty"

I'd be up for some sheepshead in Waukesha. Great game. Love Doublers (only can double once though and you keep playing doublers then until they are used up) also like cracks- if someone picks before you can pick and you think you can win you crack and the hand doubles Crackbacks - after the crack if the partner of the picker thinks they can still make it they crackback and the hand doubles again. Pots- If nobody calls hence becoming a doubler everybody puts in the base amount (we play for quarters), everybody also donates to the pot for a bump or if it is empty. Then if you have a hand you feel confident on before you pick up the blind you can call how many pots you want or stacks (we usually play with 5 players so one pot is $1.25). If you win the hand you get to walk away with how many pots you called. If you lose the hand you need to donate to the pot how many pots you called. Big Blitzers and little blitzers- Not as big of a fan. But I played with these also where if you have the two black queens (big blitzers) or the two red queens ( little blitzers) you show them and the hand doubles. Overall a great game with any rules. It would be fun to get together some time and mix the two.

Actually the brewers would also need to convince Burrell to waive his no trade clause. I love the idea but right now I think Jenkins is really a better option at half the cost.

Will those two follow the path of Braun and see AA action in the second half of this season. Actually both of those guys are putting up numbers that are superior to Braun's last season in Brevard.

Just a fun topic. Nothing serious. But what do you guys think it would take to get Ken Griffey Jr. from the Reds. He is having a great resurgent season and is owed 12.5 million this year and next with a lot of it deferred. A lot of people talk about how the brewers need a right fielder, (although I think we already have one in Hart) The reason I bring him up is because he was my favorite player as a kid, he is nearing the end of his career without having won a ring and the Reds look like they are out of it again and it is only the middle of May, plus he is great friends with Prince Fielder. Now I know that it would probably never happen being inter division and all but what if Prince and Griffey talked and Griffey somehow coerced Cincinatti Management into trading him to the Brewers. Would a package of Gross, Jackson, and another prospect get it done. What would you give up for him and how sweet would a lineup of Weeks Hardy Prince Hall Griffey Braun Jenkins/Hart Estrada look come October. Just a name to throw out there.

While I agree with you to some extent. It would be really tough for me as a fan to see us go into New York (winning 9 of previous 10) with the top of our rotation vs. the bottom of their rotation and get swept. While Sheets doesn't need to "prove" he is a good pitcher. This is a game the brewers should win and playing on the big stage in New York. This game/series will probably get alot more national media attention than anyother game/series for the rest of the year. It would be nice to live up to the national perception that is being formed of the Brewers. With that said perception isn't always reality and in the grand scheme of things you are right one game in the middle of May doesn't really mean to much.

hege53190@yahoo.com Thanks

This is the type of pitcher that in the past would post a line like 8 IP, 4 hits, 1 BB, 1 ER, 10 K's with the win. And then never be heard from again. Lets just hope these are not the same old brewers.

Exactly. I want a decade of Dominance. Not 1992 and 15 years of rebuilding. At what Position do the Brewers need a significant upgrade? That is my question. The only 3, I see are 3rd Base and we have Braun Maybe long relief but Dessens is not getting much work anyway and maybe another lefty out of the pen (but you will not find that) Personally I think we have better upgrades at AAA (with Braun, Gallardo, Jackson) than what will be available on the open Market at the trade deadline. Back to the original point of the thread move Captain Lou up around July 1 if he is still doing well. Also Move Parra and Thatcher up at that time as well. AAA is a way to stash players that will help in case of injury or help for the future. I don't think Rottino really has a chance of either at the catching position so move up the people that do.

1.) Tony Gwynn Jr.- An intriguing prospect to me. Can he repeat and improve on his performance of last year. And if he does, does he ever get a shot in milwaukee with the Outfielders they already have there. 2.) Cole Gillespie- Fast Climbers are fun to track. I could see Gillespie Jumping multiple levels this season. It will be fun to watch his progression as he moves through the Minor League Ranks. 3.) R.J. Seidel- Always will cheer for the homestate guys. Edit I didn't see the part in the original saying to leave Braun, Gallardo and Inman off. Those are the three guys that really interest me other than the top 3. The lower level guys are just to far away from breaking into the big leagues to invest much time tracking no matter their production unless their a super top prospect. One minute they seem like the next Prince Fielder or Ben Sheets, the next minute they are Brad Nelson, Dave Krynzel or Mark Rogers.

I don't really consider Torri Hunter a super star. Sure he is a nice player and an upgrade, but I don't think I would give up on the prospects I mentioned for a rent a player of Torri Hunter's ability. Not to mention add the excess salary. Also I find it hard to see the Twins falling off that far to be in a position that they would want to trade him. The twins were 1 game off the pace for best record in Baseball last year. The Braves however are a different story. I don't really pay much attention to them but it doesn't really seem like they added a whole lot or are getting players back from injury that they would get them to the playoffs. Or maybe I am just reading all the signs wrong but normally if you have a player that you want back and is going to be a free agent after this season that is a top 5 CFer in the league don't you think they would start into contract negotiations? I understand that the Braves were just sold. However With the way the market has went this off-season the last thing I would ever want as a GM if I wanted to re-sign somebody is for that player to hit the open market. Oh well it is a fantasy trade that will never happen. Its just fun to think about this stuff out loud once in a while.

I don't think people get the point of the trade I made. If you don't here is the point. Right now Villanueva/Jackson and Mench/Gross could probably start on Various teams throughout league. Right now the Brewers have a surplus of 3rd starters in the outfield and 5/6th starting pitchers. If the team is relatively healthy at the deadline why not trade some of these extra pieces for one sure fire superstar. With Villanueva/Jackson gone the brewers still have the one that doesn't get traded and Gallardo in the minors for pitchers. They still have a surplus of outfielders in the Majors. And they still have a pretty good minor league system. The reason we wouldn't sign Andruw Jones after the season is because he will likely command over 18 million a year for 6 to 7 years on the open market. A figure that the Brewers can not afford. To think otherwise is just rediculous. As to the person that thinks we should add more. I would tell him that that deal is probably overpaying for a half year of service. Young pitching is a top commodity. Especially young pitching that could do a decent job if given a starting spot. To throw in an Outfielder that could at least be the 4th outfielder on a lot of teams and another mid-level prospect likely to play in the majors someday is alot for a 3 month rental and 2 prospects that haven't played a day of minor league ball. The more I think about this trade the more I see Melvin planning it right now.

I don't think Jones would sign a deal with us. The whole point of the trade was to make a push this year. In the second half. If the Brewers are doing well. Then Cash in with the first round picks when the season is over. As for the Power Void left by Carlos. Bill Hall just hit more home runs and had more extra base hits last year than Carlos Lee ever hit before last year. And in my best guestimation will ever hit again.

I was thinking of it more along the lines if Koskie isn't able to go. With that Scenario, Hall would be the starter at third for the full year. Making the move to Centerfield next year. I think Billy would make the Sacrafice to be on the best team possible. If Koskie is Healthy and playing 3rd base well. Its even better for the Brewers. Can you imagine an outfield of Jones, Hall, Hart and a bench of Jenkins, Mench/Gross. That is one of the if not THE best outfields in the majors. I don't know salary part for Jones definitely but on Cott's page which seems pretty accurate for the Brewers it says that Jones is due 13.5 million for 2007. Half would be just under 7 million. Yeah it's alot of money but I think Mark A. would pull the trigger if the situation presented itself. As for the prospect info. I just don't see where any of these guys fit into the Brewers plans over the next 2 years. I mean Where exactly does Villanueva AND Zach Jackson fit in. Where do Mench AND Gross really fit in. This can all change with injuries. But right now the starting rotation looks pretty stocked for the next 2 years and somehow Yovanni Gallardo is going to get in there. Wouldn't some of these guys be better used to aquire a super stud for a playoff push and give Jack Z (I believe that is his name) a couple more chips to get premiere prospects. He has done a rediculous job aquiring talent in the draft over the past couple years. Why not reload hard at the end of the season again. My lineup for the Playoff Push assuming a Villanueva, Fermaint, Mench Trade and a Koskie Injury would be 1.) Weeks - 2B 2.) Estrada - C 3.) Jones - CF 4.) Prince - 1B 5.) Hall - 3B 6.) Jenkins - LF 7.) Hart - RF 8.) Hardy - SS Bench Gross Miller Braun Counsell Graffinino Our Pitching would still be the same and we would have Gallardo, Jackson, Dillard and Hammond waiting in the wings at AAA. Plus the Brewers would get at least one sandwich pick and the team likely to look at Jones will be the top team in the league so the Brewers would likely get another 1st round pick. If Koskie is playing and playing well at 3rd you can see how much more potent that makes our offense both offensively and defensively with Jones, Hall and Hart/Jenkins patrolling the outfield.

I seriously don't think the Brewers need a huge boost for the outfield at the begining of the year. I think they need to start using some of their tier 2 prospects to get the bat at the deadline. I posted it on the General board earlier in the middle of a long thread and I will post it again here. If Atlanta is struggling at the deadline and looking like they won't be able to sign Andrew Jones and our pitching is healthy I could see a trade looking something like Carlos Villanueva/Zach Jackson Mench/Gross and Gwynn/Fermaint/Perez/Irrabarren For Andrew Jones Then at the end of the season offer Jones arbitration and try to offer him a reasonable contract. If he accepts GREAT. If he doesn't take the two draft picks and continue the minors pipeline. But at playoff time could you imagine Weeks leading off and Jones, Fielder, and Billy Hall anchoring the middle of the lineup. It gets me excited right now just thinking about it.