TigerUppercut

Sorry to get off topic, but what do any sports talkers bring to the table, particularly Michaels? His sources are frequently way off based, his knowledge on all sports is highly questionable, and he doesn't even bother showing up to most of the events locally. Guy is a big time Fraud.

Would a guy who's averaged a WAR of 1.4 for his career at DH/1st base, coming off a down year, with one year left ($8M) plus an option ($13.5M) on his contract command two top 100-150ish prospect types? I'm not so sure. I could see one, a fringe prospect, and a smaller salary takeback.

His current velocity is where Gallardo's used to be. Ground ball rate scares me a bit, but he managed just fine at Wrigley. Funny, I got a call from my ticket rep 15 minutes after the deal became public and this was enough to get me off the fence. It's not organization building but Brewer fans have shown they don't want to wait per the declining ticket sales. Somewhere, both Monty and TheCrew's head just exploded.

5 years of team control left for TT but the list of 6'00" and under starters that don't break down in that time is very, very short. TT showed us something last year for sure, but in the grand scheme of things, how much better was he than Fiers the year before? Seems like fools gold to me. Sell.

I'd rather see them pull something off for Porcello, although I believe he's a Boras client and I'm unsure of what his contract looks like. He seems like he might have some helium in him. Trending in the right direction with the K rate and still only 24.

I wonder what a guy like Phil Hughes will get on the market. He's still young at 28 and the FB velocity is still solid and actually improved this year over the previous two. Getting a guy out of the NY spotlight has turned around other guy's careers, think I'd be OK with a 2 year flyer if the price was reasonable.

Not to take this thread even more off topic but the Brewers are not missing Hardy, Parra, Gamel, LaPorta, Lucroy, or Hart type of prospects the Brewers actual have plenty of those type of prospects in the minors. The type of prospects that the Brewers are missing are the Weeks, Gallardo, Braun, and Fielder types. The Brewers have the B and C type prospects Hart, Hardy, Gamel, etc. but they are missing any type of A type prospects Braun and Fielder. Wrong. All that you list there, with the exception of Lucroy, were top 100 BA prospects at one time or another. Hardy, Gamel, and LaPorta were top 20-30 if I'm not mistaken. That means they all were A, A- prospects at worst. Obviously, some are going to flame out. But the fact that they are in OUR organization should give us a leg up on determining which ones will and which ones don't. DM, on numerous occasions, said Gamel was "untouchable." That should tell you all you need to know about DM's understanding of prospects.

You keep missing the point that TheCrew is making. You're looking at next season and season's past. He's looking at next season AND 3,4,5,10 years from now. He's talking about organization and championship building, you're concerned about what helps us win games next year. Yes, in the some cases, the Brewers have done a decent job of putting pieces together for the long term. Problem is, there just aren't enough of them for long term, sustained success. By and large, while you may have surprises as you point out, the scouts don't miss on most of these guys' long term potential. The bottom line is the Brewers have failed and failed big in the past 5-6 drafts and in their signings in the Dominican. In this market, it's not enough to have a Peralta here and a Segura there. Every 3-5 years, we need a pipeline full of guys like Hart, Weeks, Hardy, Braun, Fielder, Yo, Parra, Gamel, LaPorta, LuCroy to sustain. The lack of prospects has led to DM and MA's patchwork approach, one that is using future resources now in a resource strapped market. To finish the point, 5 years from now when the Brewers very well may be looking at 7 years from their last post-season berth, you will only have to reference TheCrew's posts to find your answer as to why.

Liriano was 28 when granted free agency.

Not to be a smart aleck, but I called it in real time on my couch. Just amplifies the need for expanded replay. This game should be over.

Yep, and because its the Cards, didn't even have to tag him to ensure the out. Gosh, golly they're great.

"Saved" money is only valuable under the huge assumption that it's going to eventually be tangibly spent on the baseball team in some form. Beyond spending it this year (assuming Ramirez gets traded), there's no way to prove the money saved "enabled" us to make any future moves. Because of that, my outlook is and always has been spend it now because we have no way of knowing if it gets spent beyond what would have been done in the future. Really? Money doesn't have value? I think you're looking at things from the perspective of a fan. I look at things from the perspective of a business owner. I would argue strongly that money is valuable without some weird caveat that it needs to be spent in a specific fashion. As a business owner, I always like having excess cash in reserve, as you never know what the future holds. I will be a Brewer fan beyond next year, so I want the team to be run with a sustainable business model. Maybe they use that $20MM to pay down debt, moving forward the date at which there will no longer be a huge debt payment, giving the team more free cash in the future to spend on the team. Maybe they keep it stored away so that when they actually have a decent chance at the playoffs, they can take on a big salary mid-season. Maybe they use it to upgrade a facility that will either improve future cash flows or player development. Maybe they use it to bring on better scouting and development personnel. Maybe there are about a zillion things they can do if they have some cash to spend that they can't do when every spare cent goes to the MLB roster. As someone that owns a successful business in the greater Milwaukee area, lots of maybe's in there. Maybe's equate to pond water in the business world. Maybe MA puts the money in his pocket and sells the team next year at a $300M+ profit. Seems like a pretty smart business move to me...maybe.

"Saved" money is only valuable under the huge assumption that it's going to eventually be tangibly spent on the baseball team in some form. Beyond spending it this year (assuming Ramirez gets traded), there's no way to prove the money saved "enabled" us to make any future moves. Because of that, my outlook is and always has been spend it now because we have no way of knowing if it gets spent beyond what would have been done in the future.

This is a leap of faith and also appears to be a case of "small market mentality" to the extreme. Gindl really hasn't proven anything and Aoki has been a solid contributor for 2 full years. Is the 1/3 the cost argument really relevant when we're talking about the $1.5M Aoki will get? That's nothing. What does the saved $1M prevent us from doing? At that minimal cost, it should be about winning games and not stockpiling peanuts.

No need to keep him either when you can get a little something in trade and save $1.5M using Schafer and Gindl as your 4/5 outfielders, with Gamel and Halton also as options for corner spots. Do people really still believe Schafer is a major league caliber ballplayer? He brings little, if anything, to the table at the dish and many here consistently overrate his defense. I don't get it. AAAA material to me.

I believe Bundy is coming off of TJ surgery, but I'd be willing to package Aoki and Yo to roll the dice on him. That's the type of upside trade that scares the hell out of Melvin, though. Boom or bust.

Fair, but what type of reaction do you expect a manager who's had 9 losing seasons in the 10 he's managed (coming into the year) to get making those type of proclamations about a team that's lost for 22 consecutive seasons? At that point, you take an "l'll believe it when I see it" approach.

Those numbers, while pitching at Miller Park, are spectacular. If we see anything approaching those type of numbers (doubtful) next year, the Brewers will be at minimum contending all through September.

And here's the thing. Very few question whether or not Attanasio is a smart, savvy, think outside of the box business guy that has long term vision. You look at the Cubs, and you see an organization that while down now, are clearly building what many of us think could be a monster. All of this with a smart, savvy, think outside of the box, long term vision President and equally adept GM. Organizations with vast resources are turning their operations over to these types understanding that paying for guys on the downside of their careers isn't the way baseball works efficiently and effectively anymore (See NYY and LAA). So as fans, we continually ask ourselves, is Melvin that smart, savvy, think outside the box, long term guy to captain the ship. Yes, maybe, no and no for me. That's definitely giving him a large benefit of the doubt, and anything less than Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes warrants at least serious thought as to organizational direction and probable change. Does Mark see it this way and, why not, if he doesn't? What's blinding him on the baseball side that isn't in the business world? It's a question worth asking, IMO.

+1. At least Nelson and Thornburg have shown the ability to make adjustments to the strike zone over time while striking people out. For whatever reason, it seems this regime has Hellweg rated higher. The same Johnny Hellweg who's never been able to find the strike zone at any level. It's almost as if they want to take the Greinke trade and put it on the mantle as "evidence" of how smart and capable they are. It takes me back to what I've heard from scouts at TRat games. These guys not only don't know how to develop pitching talent, they don't even know how to properly identify it when they have it. How is that supposed to make you feel as a Crew fan when multiple scouts from different organizations say the same thing? Yeesh.

I don't want Burgos anywhere near the big league rotation....ever. He's just not a big league pitcher.

Their pitching and defense better pay off because by any measure, Cutch aside, their offense is offensive. As far as the rotation goes, it's funny how their strategy really hasn't differed much from the way the much maligned Doug Melvin has gone about building a rotation. Lots of patching going on there with a sprinkle of youth from within. I will give their youth a big edge over anything Melvin has come up with in his tenure but that should be the case when you pick in the top 5 for 20 years straight. Eventually you'll get it right.

But yet they view Gorzo, a multi-time failed starter as starting material. Just once, I'd love for Melvin and Roenicke to go toe to toe with some of the posters on here with that type of "logic".

Pitch couts, piggy backing, inning limits, etc, etc, etc. It really is tiring, particularly when there is no hard evidence to suggest any of it helps/hurts longevity. When are people going to simply realize there are genetic freaks like the Verlanders, Maddux's, Felix, CC and then there is everybody else? This has been the case throughout the history of baseball and based on that, I don't expect it to change anytime soon. Pitchers, for the most part, are always going to be fragile. Let's just embrace that fact and stop worrying about guys going 160 pitches in an outing 8 years ago.

What has Burgos done to make anyone think he's a major league caliber pitcher? The scouting reports weren't glowing coming up and he really doesn't pass the eye test for me. Looks like a AAAA arm capable of a spot start if absolute need be, but someone that will get shelled if forced into consistent duty. The stuff seems to back that up as we've seen way too many guys with his profile over the years.