Boomer5

Thank God I didn't order Extra Innings this year. This is completely out of hand.

I am hoping they will get it. They are seeing the kind of excitement the Cubs are getting with their kids coming up. Of course it took years of last place finishes and smart drafting to get there. The Cubs are also unique because their brain dead fans will show to capacity despite a half decade of last place finishes AND an ownership group that openly hates its fans. The most recent draft and Lara does show the team willing to go after the high ceiling types. The Yo trade does show we are finally willing to trade for not major league ready assets and build the right way. So there is hope they are finally getting it.

The issue wasnt the Grienke/Marcum trades. Flags fly forever and there is something to be said about going for it. The problem I have is the Herb Kohl method of staying mediocre for so long that we never could draft like the Cubs and Astros (minus last years draft debacle), which purposely decided to be horrible for years. Imagine if we could have drafted Rodon last year. Or just signed him when we had the chance in the first place. Then factor in the completely horrendous ability to scout amateur talent, not being realistic on the talent on the major league roster, then have one of the worst hitting approaches I have ever seen, and you have the recipe for the product today. With Braun's contract and "thumb" problem, we will be saddled with his black hole for years much like what happened with Soriano. The best bet is go the Cubs route of being terrible for 4+ years, and load up with real scouts/front office, and a development program.

With starting pitchers, it will only take 3-5 good starts to put him back in the asset category. You start him until that happens. Who is he blocking that would really matter for the 2015 season?

Do the Brewers management have the stomach for an Astros style (less the disastrous 2014 draft) rebuild? Most of the team is below replacement level, so by definition it shouldn't be tough to get to decent and build around Luc (who will be fine),Nelson and Peralta

Not at all. However, if you're looking to rebuild, he has good value to teams and is a good chip to trade. Yes. Garza and his relatively modest contract can be a decent asset to build up the farm system. Few on the Brewers fall into that category.

If Garza can string together 3-5 good starts, they need to actively shop him for young assets. I agree he can have some trade value if he turns it around.

Not much to get excited about here, which is pretty obvious. The good: Nelson, Peralta, Segura Nelson's curve is darn near Sheets like. Wily is a solid #2/3 type. Jean looks to be back. Luc has been terrible but I am confident he will be back to normal soon enough. Lind can hit. So ends the guys I'd want to keep around for next year. More will be back but really who cares? The bad: Braun, ARam, Braun, Lohse, Braun, Garza, Braun, and Braun. I do expect Luc to bounce back, but everyone else slumping I have a feeling they will stay bad, not historically bad, but they wont be of much value going forward. I have a very bad feeling that Carlos will just be hurt too much to realize the value we need to improve as a team or be a high end trade asset. This is a really sorry bunch overall. Braun is now a singles hitter and yes, PED's were the reason he earned that contract in the first place. He is a fraud. Please understand I was about his biggest fan early on when he and Prince were the franchise. I dont think its too early to look at the number 1 pick in 2016 with this bunch. I am not nearly as much of a RR hater as many here. Yes he makes goofy decisions, but all managers do over the course of a full season. I am much more focused on Doug and the player evaluation and development problems. Our problems start with the horrendous drafts year after year. Perhaps things are changing after going after high ceiling guys in 2014??

I agree completely. This is tough team to get excited about. It's essentially the same team that finished last half of 2014 in disastrous fashion. The good players are just good. The old players are looking very old. This is the result of the horrendous drafts. We produce guys like Scooter and Khrush, who are just above replacement types, while the Cardinals have a factory of plus plus talented guys year after year. Throw in the dramatic decline of Braun and you do not have a recipe of success. The good news is Luc, Peralta and what I hope is Nelson. I will be spitting blood when I see Rodon pitching for the White Sox this year. What a mismanaged player development program.

No way. The guy is a nightmare even if the Angels were willing to pay $24M of the $25M owed to him. He is a multiple time loser and has no business being on the Brewers. He is ripping apart the clubhouse apparently and thats the last thing we need compared to the very slight chance he becomes a 30 HR guy again.

I sure hope you are right. The cupboard is really bare in terms of impact bats if you aren't. Throw in that crippling contract, and this will be a disaster if he isn't the player you think he is.

Absolutely. Look at his contract starting in 2016. 2016: $20M 2017: $20M 2018: $20M 2019: $19M 2020: $17M 2021: $15M or $4M buyout

We will see. This is very intelligent board, and many of you seem to think PEDs werent that big a deal to the Braun we all loved. I can't possibly imagine that being true for many reasons, but the good news is the truth will be discovered on the field. My point isn't to bash Braun, its to point out the Brewers entire plan is based on Braun returning to super star status, and the holes in that plan. If Im right, what is plan B?

The last few years it was blamed on the thumb injury. Basically he said he had to start his swing earlier blah blah blah and caused him to swing at bad pitches. Whether that is true I don't know....Maybe he is so screwed up after two years of swinging at garbage. And PEDs can effect it in the sense that you can swing the bat faster. You can wait longer and get to balls faster. Of course I don't think you can go from so great to so bad like Braun has with just cutting out PEDs...though I am no expert. None of us truly know what Braun 2.0 will yield. I have my suspicions, others have theirs. I do go back to the thumb injury. While Im sure it was a real injury, I cant recall players losing so much production for such a long time due exclusively to the thumb. i get that its critical and i get that its exposed to potential injury. What I don't get is why it hasn't been every bit as prevalent an injury as say the tommy john, hamstring, tired arm, etc. Can anyone name a circumstance like this? An elite player at the prime of his career falling apart due to a thumb injury? I would think there is someone but nothing comes to mind.

You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012. Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year. No, he's saying that you are sure he's a "750 guy at best," and I, like TLB assume you mean ".750 OPS" when you say "750 guy at best." Last year (sore thumb and all) he hit for a .777 OPS, so it's hard to believe that he is a ".750 OPS guy at best." You then came back with a bit of a snarky comment using his home run totals to justify lack of production, and then shifted back to an OPS reference in your "900-950 ways" comment. I personally don't know what to expect from Braun. He was injured last year, so that probably had some negative effect. Personally, I think it'll be tough to be a .950 OPS guy, as very few people ever hit that mark, and he is on the other side of 30. However, I hope that he can be a mid-to-high .800 OPS guy again. Time will tell. You are banking everything on thumb excuse. I suppose its possible. I did just look it up, and he did hit 777. If you honestly think that is so much better than 750, then sheesh, what can I say? At his pay, he MUST be a 900 guy for the Brewers plan to work. I also looked up his splits because my comments were based on what I remember of him last year, not the actual stats. Turns out he had a tremendous April then that was that. Was it the thumb? I really doubt it but its certainly conceivable. Can you name a player losing so much production for the bulk of the season due to a thumb injury? Wasnt that also his excuse for the lack of pre suspension 2013? Then how did he mash in April 2014? The Brewers have everything tied into him being a super star, 750 (or 777 if that makes you feel better about him) wont get it done.

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season? You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012. Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year. Look I get it, he is still a fan favorite or a villain. Personally, there is way too much money for players to not be in something. I would guess its a big percentage and not limited to Braun. I am not buying the thumb issue. I know its critical to hitting and I know the thumb is always exposed in baseball. But in all the years I have watched and played baseball (my first favorite player was Jim Slaton), I cant recall a thumb injury knocking out the bulk of a season. Im sure there must have been some, but nothing comes to mind. As the church lady would suggest, the excuse seems way too convenient. I am just going on what I see on the field, not my opinion of him the man. You see a 950 star, and I don't. The good news is we will see the truth on the field.

I haven't signed up for direct tv baseball package either because of the Brewers. My main concern is that 2008-2011 was built around two 6-8 oWAR players in Braun and Prince. Where are those guys going to come from? Gomez and Luc? Both very good players but peak Braun and Prince; I dont think so. Segura looks great so far and Davis might have that in him? Lind is hot but I think we sadly know that he wont play 150 games. ARam looks horrible but traditionally he has been a very slow starter. Like you, I am very concerned for this offense. My opinion of Braun stays the same. The man is a 750 guy at best, not a 950 guy. I have seen plenty of him to make that comment. He is a PED guy and save your words trying to convince me otherwise. Maybe he is hoping for the next gen of stanozolol. I dont know. I would move him to first since we are stuck with him due to that contract, and his body is now made of cheap glass. I am less concerned for the pitching staff. I do think we may be on the verge of an excellent 1-2 in Wily and Nelson. Lohse will figure it out. Garza is mediocre as he has always been, but not horrible. Plus if we ever had a must win game, the other team would just bunt him to death, which makes him pretty much useless. Fiers is a question mark but what team doesn't have those? The bullpen might just be OK, but its too early to tell. The "names" out there suggest this is a decent group, and the team hasn't played enough competitive games to get the 789 formula down yet.

I can't see anyone trading for Braun, but if he can get some sort of mini hot streak and some desperate team is willing, Id put the trigger yesterday. I want that contract relative to what I assume is his ongoing performance off the team.

I can't disagree that Fielder would have brought back a game changing package of prospects in theory. Had they not made the move for Grienke and Marcum they would have traded Fielder and we would have had all of those players now. But...that's not the teams DNA back then. They were and likely are a Herb Kohl style of team. You can see it in the trades they made those days and the players they drafted. High floor, low ceiling types. Maybe a tanking type season, like this can turn out to become, will be the driver that will force that change. We already see some transition in the way they now draft, and the Rangers trade for young prospects all represent a departure. Brining back Aram to me was more about a complete lack of 3B options rather than a go for it mentality. I can see a big Gomez trade in July if this team isnt in the hunt.

Molitor Yount Cooper Prince Reluctantly, I put Molitor on the list, but I still hold a grudge, a grudge that only .0000009 % of Brewers fans agree with. I am in the minority on Molitor and his reasons for leaving... Yount is a given. I loved Gantner and Gorman, but don't feel they belong on this list. If only we could have held onto Prince, but I'm still including him as one of my choices. Sheets, had he been able to stay healthy is an obvious choice, and I want to include him, but just can't. I was a huge Cooper fan back in the day, he always seemed so clutch. I want to put Braun on this list really badly, but just can't do it. I still love the guy as a player, and if he comes back and even resembles his pre-PED self, he will be on this list at #2 in my eyes. For now, I can't add him. I don't think Rollie was here long enough to be in the top 4 ever... I agree completely. Prince has to round out the top 4 with the top 3 being obvious. The only other guy Id even consider over Prince is Teddy but his career wasn't long enough. Braun is just sad. Should have been right up there with Young and Mollie if not the best Brewer ever.......Sad Trombone.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lawribr01.shtml Let's call him what he was in 2011: A PED guy and move on. You can call it what you want, but the guy is still young, and giving him a label, positive or negative, is just too early in his career................in my opinion. Throwing out 2011, he has about 1200 ABs to show what he is, a light hitting 3B. I guess given the lack of quality 3B, he has some value, but I don't lose sleep he is gone. What I do agree with is I think the package for him at the time of the trade was really low. I think I read quite a few teams had no idea he was even on the market?

I agree. This team has a Herb Kohl lead feel to it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lawribr01.shtml Let's call him what he was in 2011: A PED guy and move on.

Well Im not sure adding Cain, Escobar, Jake O, and Lawrie would matter all that much, and you'd take away 2011. The issue is Braun and Segura not being who we thought/hoped they were for various reasons. No team will win when their franchise player and prized young shortstop dont perform to anywhere near expected levels. Throw in a mediocre or underperforming starting rotation and a bullpen that is inconsistent and you have 70-75 win team.

Segura is a very interesting asset. I bounce between him being potentially the next great young offense/defense SS and being almost completely worthless. I wonder how other teams view him? This trade "rumor" from the Padres seems like a lot of value, especially Despaigne, for a guy that can barely get the ball out of the infield.