Boomer5

Id like to see Jungmann get an extended trial here. I am definitely not sold on him being anything other than a 4/5 at all. But I don't think keeping him at Colorado will help him develop, and if anything turn him into a nibbler. He just had a nice start (finally), so its time to keep the momentum and move him up. At 16-30, we arent risking a flame out here, and worst case, we will know to move on. Best case, he shows he belongs.

The one that hurt the most, and it wasnt so much a miss, as just never was what we had hoped was BJ Surhoff. A really likable guy, hard worker, good person. One of my favorite Brewers. Had all the tools but it never really happened. Then look at the 85 draft.

Exactly! Throw in trades of Lind. Ramirez, Lohse, K-Rod, Parra, Garza and you've got yourself more prospects, too It sounds extreme to trade all of those players. But, the Brewers are 16-30 with those guys. After an OK start, CC is now 9-12, so it wasnt really the manager. How much worse can they be without them? The Brewers could wind up with 6-8 new top 100 players after the trades of Braun and Gomez et al, draft a guy like Aiken, and would have the top pick in the draft next season. And would have a clean slate on payroll. The Brewers dont really do things on that big a scale, so its unlikely. Dare to dream though.

Gomez absolutely should be traded. He will bring in a massive haul and wont be with the Brewers in 2017. His style of play makes him a bad bet by then anyhow. His value is super high now. Segura doesn't have enough trade value to be interesting. Id rather keep him and focus on hiring a real hitting instructor to turn his former talent into results. I am torn on Lucroy. One one hand, he can probably net us ANY prospect in the game, and he is already transitioning away from full time catcher. On the other, he is about all we have left. Braun is the guy that can bring us a game changing prospect haul and put us in a great payroll situation with a trade. His performance has been darn near impossible the last 28 days, and we need to capitalize on that. Trading Gomez and Braun would move us from one of the worst farm systems in the game to one of the best with two moves. We could do what the Cubs and Astros did in 4 years with two trades in a weekend.

Braun's image and face of the franchise is gone and his next oblique strain is right around the corner. But...the man has been destroying the baseball. His trade value is really high right now. With so many holes to fill and having a 1.100 OPS guy in May with so many teams looking for offense, a Braun trade can clear up 9 digits of obligations and set the farm system up for a decade. The Mets seem like the most logical destination, with the Dodgers also a possibility though the Brewers would need to take back a OF under a bad contract. Im sure most every team could be in the mix, depending on his no trade list. Its not unreasonable to think they can get 4 of any teams top 10 prospects, of which one would be top 10, and 2 more in the top 50 or so.

I posted in the rumors thread that LA needs to be the target team. They desperately needs starting pitching, and Braun would fit beautifully into their needs as a California kid and for them a manageable contract. Seeing what the Cubs did with Oakland, a Lohse, Garza, Braun deal could set the Brewers up for a decade.

This is the team DM needs to target. LA gets the vets to get them over the top, Milwaukee sets themselves up for the future. The can absorb big contracts and need offense and starting pitching in both cases due to injuries. Now it looks like Kershaw might have something wrong. They have shown an appetite for a super deal before with Boston. The Cubs set the standard for two good to decent starting pitchers for one super elite prospect. Lohse, Garza, and Braun (California kid and his contract wont scare LA) for.......Seager? Holmes? Urias? ++

That is one key point that has seemed to escape many teams; cost of building a quality minor league system vs not. With the rising cost of the major league roster; for the cost of one reliever *cough Broxton cough*, you can build a world class coaching and scouting department. Other than the crazy international player costs, for the most part the draft is all about DD and approach. That doesn't cost a whole lot more that the status quo and the returns are massive. I hate to keep bringing up the Cardinals, but if Im Mark A, Id want some serious answers as to how they succeed in the draft picking so late, when we keep taking guys like Arnett and Bradley, et al.

If the medicals check out, Aiken has the be the pick. A top of the rotation lefty and if nothing else, he will carry a big stick as a trade chip as he will be viewed as better than his Brewer's draft status if he can throw at all down the road.

Unless Garza really puts it together in a big way, he should be packaged with Lohse to a rotation starved team on the verge of the play offs. If Im DM, I use the Cubs template last year of Samardzija and Hammels for Russell. Obviously we wouldn't get a guy as good as Russell for that package but two quality 3/4's for the stretch run should bring a really nice prospect back.

I do think they have a future of sorts but that AAA experience isnt helping. Bradley's 9.87 and Jungmann's 7.68 ERA's hardly give me much comfort. I agree the Brewers need to look for a new home when their deal expires.

Certainly nobody in the Brewers organization "picked" Colorado Springs, though they've put on a good game face and been very professional and cordial with the Sky Sox front office. It was the last chair standing in the game of affiliation shuffle musical chairs. If anything, the Brewers should have been more proactive regarding other sites earlier, such as Albuquerque (where the Rockies ended up), though that's no picnic location, either. Simply put, if the Brewers had fielded even fairly competitive AAA clubs in Nashville in recent years, they'd be enjoying the new ballpark in a great stat-evaluating friendly environment in the Music City. I am quite ignorant of the affiliate selection process. This seems like a very difficult venue to develop and evaluate talent, almost to the point of being worthless. Wont pitchers alter their approach? Id think pitching would almost have to skip AAA all together. I was never a fan of the 2011 draft but even I feel bad for Bradley and Jungmann.

I have no idea who or how picked Colorado for our AAA organization. I hated when we had Denver years back, as I cant imagine how you can project performance to the majors playing there. I can see players, especially pitching, skipping AAA. I would assume this has been discussed, but Id like to hear the boards thoughts.

This is a very reasonable list. Very rarely do teams trade that many players in season so our return will be just OK, and a massive package for Gomez or Luc also seems unlikely because they arent playing at their peak now and those deals are tough to put together. It is terrible to say, but we need a rash of injuries if we want much of anything for that list though.

PEDs are definitely not out of the game, we agree. Too much money is at stake on the supply and demand side for it to be gone. If your argument is that players use PEDs so we should forgive Braun, then perhaps that is just the way of the game and as they say, it is what it is. I suppose I can accept that, though I am a bit of a purist. But let's not pretend he wasn't a liar and that his "thumb" was the reason for him going from superstar to Just A Guy. Back on topic, the point of the contract was his 5-6 WAR level AND his likability and marketability (merchandise sales in the ROI). Since both are gone, PEDs or No PEDs, that makes this the worst contract in Brewers history. Melvin usually does pretty well in trades, but yes, including Cruz was an eye opener. We were already giving up the best player in the trade in Lee, why did we need to include a sweetener? Kevin Mensch? Nix? A closer? Yikes what a horrible trade. I mean seriously, who trades an asset for Kevin Mensch? That was 2006, and he has seemed to learn since though.

You've just listed one (and there are rumors of Suppan actually) of the most likely PED users ever, actually. How do you think Hammonds got the contract? Some think that Suppan was the way he was throwing at the end with the Cards as well. Also, Coors Field helped Hammonds. You are probably right. I was half kidding about possible PED use only because both were completely awful in Milwaukee. I never heard Hammonds name connected to PEDs, but I wouldnt be surprised. He was a Dean Taylor signing and few knew major league talent worse than that man. I would never sign a guy who was rumored to be a PED guy. A guy who "revived" his career playing in Coors should have been a major red flag. Not to Dean Taylor though. Any vet that magically develops career level performance has to be under suspicion. And any Cardinal, always. I am very intrigued by Nelson Cruz' year. Never an elite player moving up the system, had his first 40 HR season at 33 (?), and is now mashing. To me, that is just a better supply, not that he found his stroke in his mid 30's. Playing in Seattle, of course. Totally OT but the Mets did sign a Rockie and gave up a #1 to do it.

I am a bit more cynical than you when it comes to PED guys. Once a PED guy, always a PED guy. As hard as MLB looks at testing, the guys who sell the stuff work 10x harder at masking agents and new product. The players are hooked because there is quite literally 9 digits to be made. Follow the money, as they say. So, no, I am not buying he was totally clean in 2012. The thumb, while a real injury, was way too timely and convenient an excuse for a year plus long performance drop. Overly skeptical? Maybe. I just have never heard of a thumb injury taking out a player for a year plus. Braun is still a real baseball player with baseball talent. He has value above replacement, just not to the tune of contract. As someone already mentioned, Braun jerseys/gear are no longer part of the ROI of the contract which I am sure the Brewers figured into their cash flow when organizing such a deal. He is NOT a 5-6 war player and most certainly he will never be. The contract was awarded to him for his 5-6 war talent AND off the field charisma/marketable super star. Since he is neither, and his deal will cause the Brewers to limit their payroll going forward, that is why the contract will certainly end up being the worst in Brewers history, even if he bounces back to being a decent fringe all star caliber player. Honorable mentions have to be Suppan and Hammonds. I'm positive they never took PEDS, at least when they were Brewers. PEZ maybe, but not PEDS.

I agree with any Cardinal. They guy was so obviously a PED guy but he cashed in and never failed a drug test, so he passes. Cruz to me just has a better supplier and better masking agent. Proof? None, but once a liar, always a liar. Braun WAS indeed different. Unlike Pooholes (13th round pick) and Cruz, Braun was an elite player his whole baseball life. The guy has always mashed. Maybe his natural talents will allow him to still be good while playing clean. I can maybe buy that. I can't see him ever being the guy people look up to again though.

I am hoping this was a RR culture that can be fixed in AAA. I just noticed the Brewers are 3rd in the league in strike outs, 26th in walks. Thats some plate approach.

"Face of the franchise stuff" - Like a cocaine user (Molitor)? "Those days are over" - Like when Yount fell off a cliff at age 33 - sometimes that is a risk of taking on a franchise player contract. We're at the crossroads for 2015 with Braun. Either he's healthy on his way to being a .900 guy for a few more years, he's a .780 "overpaid former star," or he's a .700 washed-up roid user. Time will tell, but I'll live with the middle option and hope for the return of the .900 guy (the .990 guy will never be back). You are right, 2015 is a big year for Braun. I do not and will never buy into the thumb issue being the sole reason for the fall off. I know that isn't popular, but the man is a habitual liar and PEDS are taken for a reason. So I must admit my projections for Braun going forward are based on 2013 to today. I am fully discounting anything he did prior to that. Molitor had issues early in his career and of course he left us. Had this been in the era of social media, he would have been viewed as a significantly different player. OT but its amazing how baseball coverage has changed from the days of waiting to pick up the paper to see how the league performed. What a difference! Yount was with us since he was 18, and was a MVP and gold glove guy at SS and CF. Braun was the better hitter by far. Yount the better face of the franchise guy IMHO. Id love to see the sales data of 8 jerseys pre and post 2013.

Are you saying he isn't "Yount/Molitor" because of the off-the-field stuff? If one assumes that he is at least somewhat back to his old self, Yount and Molitor both put up about 65 Fangraphs WAR over their career. Braun has 33 and he's just turned 31. Seems reasonable that he could be ticketed for about 60-65 wins over his career. If Braun averages 4 WAR/year the rest of his career (let's say he has 2 more years with 6-7 WAR and is otherwise a 3 WAR guy through his 30s) then he's going to almost hit 70 if he plays until he's 40. I am referring to marketability, face of the franchise stuff. That is over for Braun. I would never disagree that the Braun pre 2013 was fantastic and absolutely the best player in Franchise history. Those days are over. You can't project those stats going forward because he isn't that guy anymore. Can he be a good hitter and passable RF? Possibly. Will he be the guy that you can build a team and fanbase around? No.

It would also improve if he could hit for an OPS over .700, which he hasn't done since his hot first half of his rookie year. If he is a "hot commodity" now, it is because other teams see the team control and the potential. If we hold onto him for another year or two, and he proves himself to be a mid-.600 OPS guy with limited team control remaining, I don't think we'd get much in trade. Even if he hits better, once the team control goes away, we probably wouldn't get more than we could get today. With Sardinas, Gomez, Herrera and eventually Arcia all waiting in the wings, I think we're taking a big chance if we do not trade Segura by this offseason. Assuming, of course that the market for him is as hot as it is rumored. In regards to Gennett, this is sad, but not totally surprising as he was never considered that great a prospect. I hope he can figure it out, as he should be a nice guy to have around while he's young and inexpensive during the probable "lean years" ahead, and he's certainly an easy guy to root for. Scooter is not the only young player who's struggled mightily this season. Who would have thought Christian Yelich would be hitting .178/.268/.233 in Miami? I thought he was headed to stardom and I know I wasn't alone. You often really don't know about a guy until they've been through adversity. It's a lot different struggling at the major league level than it is in the minors. Brewers were patient with Scooter to a degree and said the right things, but players know they if they aren't producing they will find themselves benched/sent down and they add pressure internally. Time for him to clear his head and just go play. His talent is still there. He was a 828 OPS guy first half, 621 OPS second half. I think he has been the Brewers "clock about to strike midnight" radar for awhile. He is an easy guy to cheer for, so lets hope he gets it back.

He absolutely is a 1-2 WAR player right now. That is what he has been since 2013 and two micro streaks hardly change that. Assuming he wasn't suspended/hurt in 2013, he was about a 4-5 WAR guy if he plays the whole season. He produced a 1.6 WAR in 62 games. 2014 is the contention point. Was he hurt? That's what we hope. With all of that he was a 1-2 WAR guy last year, no doubt. However, from the beginning of his career until the point he was suspended in 2013 he was a 5+ WAR guy. In 2014 he claims he was hurt for a great deal of it and trailed off. I wouldn't be surprised if he went back to matching what he was for the first 6ish years of his career with a little bit of a downward adjustment for being off the juice and just being a little bit older. If you are right, then teams should be falling over themselves to land him. As to the thread title, he wasn't signed because he could hit, he was signed because he was Yount/Molitor. He isn't and will never be, therefore he needs to go IF a team wants him. As to his current value, If you see a 5-6 WAR guy, lets hope other teams do too.

I was obviously being sarcastic with the Love comment. Should have used blue. I only threw Heyward in there because the Braves were mentioned in another thread as a turn around story even better than the Astros/Cubs. I know Braun and Heyward aren't identical due to contract and defense. But they are both RF's, once thought of as big impact guys, with Brauns once upon a time elite status making up the difference of contract and lack of D compared to Heyward. From what I read Miller was a bit stubborn and didnt buy into the Cardinal way, so he was the guy to go in the trade. There must be another guy like that on a team thats hold out hope that Brauns issues werent PEDS but rather the thumb storyline.

He absolutely is a 1-2 WAR player right now. That is what he has been since 2013 and two micro streaks hardly change that.