Yea that's fair too. Overall I think that would simply also show how advantageous it is to have good starting pitching as it pertains just to making the playoffs. Then once you're there everyone has good pitching so anything can happen. And of course I totally agree it's an advantage we'd all take if we could get it. But of those teams I think one could argue 11 Cards Ace would've been what an old Carpenter or maybe Wainwright, IDK how good either were at the time to be 'ace' level. Bumgarner, of course counts in those years. Bost was Lester/Bucholz. Again good Ps but not like true 'ace'. Cubs had old Lester, Arrietta, Hendrick. Arrietta for that like 1.5 year stretch was ridiculous that's for sure. But they beat true Ace Kluber I think twice. I know they beat true Ace Kershaw to make the WS. Verlander rebounded in 2017 to be Ace like again so yea that works. Sale of course Ace as well. I'm sure some of this has me just using a tighter definition of the word "ace" than most but what you point to me also shows good pitching staffs all the way through are key. not necessarily "needing" the true Ace though in Kershaw, Max, prime Bum, Stras, etc. Of course I'd want the true Ace but just saying it shows it can be done with depth and several good 2nd or 3rd tier guys as well even without true ace. Long story short I guess of what I'm getting at is: Definitely an advantage to have a guy like that but no guarantees, and there is certainly other ways to do it. That said, I for sure know I'd like one more workhorse type in the line of what Woodruff is trending towards right now. Note that I'm not saying MKE even has that now since the Pen is not what it was last year. But what they put together in a creative way would've had them toe to toe with anyone, just like they did.