tmwiese55

That's where I had the big "If" in what I said. We're a few weeks away and he's still out there so must not have an offer like that. But we have no idea what's out there for him, and again look around the league at winning teams and see who needs a top dog. I wouldn't call it a backup either, more like a split job and then whoever does better will get more and more PT. Maybe he's waiting to see if a starting C gets hurt on a winning team in spring training. I don't know what's holding him up. I'm just saying if he's not getting anything in the market, but two weeks from now he kinda just has to take what he can get. Beggars can't be choosers essentially. Sure I'd agree that you'd think someone will offer better, but time is running out.

It would be Lucroy vs Vogt though, not vs Pina. I'd be really surprised if Lucroy wasn't better than Vogt this year, shocked even (barring injury of course). Issue of course is that I'm sure Luc wants somewhere to be a starter but I looked around the league and there aren't really much better winning situations to be in that need a C than MKE. If he can't get a 2-3 year deal and/or guaranteed starter PT from someone then here on a 1 year show me deal really might be his best bet. Walker has a lot more variables involved due to Perez, Sogard, Villar already being here. So less 'need' so to speak and risk of losing useful players. If the Sogard deal wasn't guaranteed it would make a lot more sense, just cut Sogard and go with him.

Warning Track Power makes some good points there. I generally agree but of course we don't really know the asking price they're dealing with on Walker/Lucroy. But one year 'show me' type deals might not be the worst thing for either of them and obviously there is no real risk for MKE on deals like that

Walker would also provide 1B insurance. If the Braun to 1st stuff works out, if you have Walker you could move both of the current 1Bs and have Walker as the fill in for Braun. I know Thames is likely better and all but it reduces Ks, more roster flex, likely better D than Thames. Not saying I advocate it, just that it could be something they do.

Still, it's 3 proven MLB players all controlled for several more years for two guys who still have a large shot at doing nothing in MLB. I don't recall ever seeing a trade of this nature. Any prospect that would be worth that value or is that big of a lock to be star such as a Harper/Trout/Strasburg etc would never be traded no matter what you gave up. That said, just because somethings never been done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be, maybe that could be the moneyball or creative thinking that works out, who knows. Not about to say I'm right (in spite of how many on here are adamant that they know it all or are experts about trade values, no one really knows), just that I'd be really surprised if those were the trade values out there in the real world just because we've never seen something like this happen before (not based off my expert internet prospect evaluation or anything like that).

Time to share some info/ insight. 1) Yan Gomes & Roberto Perez have multi year contracts in place to catch for Cleveland. As a small market team it is not in their nature to just bench/ release chunks of salary. They will explore ways to maximize the assets which includes exploring trades & increasing a player's position flexibility. 2) Cleveland values the D behind the plate more than the offensive the player could bring at that spot. Offense is seen as a bonus. 3) Mejia has not even played a game at AAA yet. While his bat is believed to be ready, his D can use more work/ seasoning especially as Cleveland is a heavy favorite to win its division/ make the post-season. In a rebuilding spot (like Miami if JT Realmuto was gone), he could easily break camp or be a June call up. 4) Comparing/ Contrasting the numbers of the Age 22 season is inaccurate. Mejia turned 22 in October 2017 so he played AA at age 21 & made his MLB debut already. Additionally the Southern League (Huntsville) is more of an offensive league then the Eastern League (Akron). 5) Salome got rated as a top 100 prospect 1 time (Baseball Prospectus #79 before start of the 2009 season). 2018 is the 2nd year Mejia is being rated inside the top 50 by multiple sources. Someone (other than fans like us) must feel Mejia has a great likelihood to succeed in the majors. Thanks for the info on the Indians, like I said I didn't really know the story. And for Salome, it was just an example right in front of all of us how easily prospects flop, not some kind of direct comparison of the two. Just think how highly we and the league would have valued him at that point and then he did nothing. So, your knowledgeable info on the Indians situation and Mejia leads my crackpot opinion to be that he might be being a touch overvalued in this discussion on here. While a great prospect, at age 22 he's not beating down the doors of MLB yet. Not saying he's not good or won't be, but those superstar types like he's being portrayed here tend to be up or forcing teams hands about this age while he sounds at least a year or two off. That combined with you saying his D isn't up to par is a bit of a flag for a C prospect, as I mentioned in a different post if a good hitting C can't hack it at C, often when he switches positions he's just another guy offensively, the O isn't as large of an advantage at other spots. That's my two cents expert internet jabroni opinion/assessment and I'm not saying I'm right or want to get in any debate on it. And of course I'd gladly take him back here in a trade that makes sense, but giving up 3 proven MLB players..

One thing on the other side that popped in my head after TJ7 that I didn't really think about before now and I don't recall seeing mentioned is that Thames/Jesus weren't used in a strict platoon until very late. So, the obvious outlier of April isn't going to happen again, but some of that loss could be made up for by using a stricter platoon to maximize their strengths. That said, as TJ just pointed out of course Braun should be much better than Jesus

Generally agree with your logic and points. Just feels like a good time to reiterate how massively skewed those numbers because of Thames' April.

They are if they strike out 50% of the time and was a backup OF bouncing between MLB and AAA for years now. Kinda the definition of "backup OF or AAAA player" to me. Every fan wanted him benched or demoted last year but no we expect to get something legit for him, doesn't add up to me. I suppose he could probably be a platoon starter vs lefites for a bad team but if you're trying to win it you're not relying on him as a near full time starter. So, backup OF or AAAA guy seems ok to me. Or like someone else just said, for a team basically tanking no harm in throwing him out there and trying to catch lightning in a bottle, basically what we tried to do, and he failed.

I'm in the camp that Broxton has next to no value. I mean, we benched him and sent him down last year and played rookies over him. Now he's like our 5th or 6th OF giving no leverage. He's not young anymore. He's had his shot and proved he can't hack it. Sure, he could still magically put together a Gomez like year or two, but no one is trading anything of value for him at this point. He's a 4th OF or AAAA guy as of now.

The more i think about this the more I'm ok with going into the year with all the hitters. Of course, that's assuming Braun is passable Prince Fielder level at 1B. If that's the case there should be plenty of flexibility to get enough ABs for everyone. Especially with what we've seen from Counsell so far in his propensity of playing matchups and keeping everyone playing no matter who they are. If we're going to be doing that to keep Nick Franklin and Broxton etc fresh, I guess I'm happy we have much better players we're doing it with this year. Someone pointed out the Cubs ABs above and others have for MKE too. Think how many ABs went to the Broxtons, Perez's, Kirk types the last few years. Now those are covered by a legit good hitters. Injuries will happen, maybe someone goes in a major funk, a trade happens later. Usually these things find a way to sort themselves out. If we're being lowballed on Santana I'm fine going this route.

At age 22 in AA former Brewers great Angel Solome hit 360/415 with 13 HRs. Better than what Mejia did. As good of a prospect as he is, he's still a prospect. C prospects especially seem to flame out more than anyone as it's so hard to maintain that hitting while playing C. Then if they move from C they're not really anything special as a hitter. I wonder why Mejia isn't supposed to be their starter this year if he's this good? I don't know maybe he is, I'm not an expert on the Indians but at his age and supposed pedigree he should be up this year.

FYI on Hamel's 2019 option I just noticed. Based on that criteria it's not going to be guaranteed, so I assume it's gonna just be a team option and 6 mil buyout. 2019 Option includes $6 million buyout 2019 option guaranteed if Hamels 1) has 400 IP in 2017-18, including 200 IP in 2018, and 2) is not on the disabled list with a shoulder or elbow injury at the end of the 2018 season

Yea certainly beats trotting out Shane Peterson, Nick Franklin, Ramon Flores, elian Herrera and Alex Presley. Guys are gonna hurt, I think it will take care of itself over the year.

After seeing that list of players Cole Hamels name popped in my head. He didn't have a great year last year, but was solid the year before. If TX is out of contention and Hamels is doing fine he could be the Verlander type acquisition if we're in need of a starter. Then again, if that's the case he'd probably be a target by all contenders. I don't know on his no-trade as it just says 'limited' but he's only signed this year and next so not a massive risk.

Generally agree. But he's 34 and is at risk of straining a muscle any time he moves, and hasn't had to play IF in over 10 years. It should be fine and they must have some confidence in it or they wouldn't have gotten this far, but that is still the key to all of it. Albeit one that is likely going to be work out.

Really the key to all of this working is Braun at least being passable on D at 1B. If not, they have a dilemma. Being that the other 1B are Thames/Jesus, he doesn't have to be very good on D to be in their ballpark since those two are very average to poor imo. So it shouldn't too hard, but you never know. Hope he looks adequate/good in Spring Training or everyone knows they'll be fairly desperate to move Santana.

I would phrase the Braun viewpoint not so much as that he 'should' be getting the fewest PT but more that it's likely he'll get the least due to his injury history. If fully healthy he's the best hitter and should play as much as he can. If he has anything lingering, pop in DL and get recovered since we have depth this year.

And no one has proof the Cubs didn't want arrieta just that they like darvish and a draft pick more which everyone would agree with For sure. We have no idea either way. The whole point is don't believe (or at least take with a grain of salt) whatever info is pushed out in the media. None of this stuff is 100% factual either way. For an example right in front of us take the Darvish thing with MKE. All these linked things to him, intentionally put out there by someone. Then after the signing MKE is saying it was all exaggerated. who knows what to believe, some info gets pushed out with an agenda behind it that could be partially BS. Or it could be legit. Who knows. Whole point was that just because one reporter said it, doesn't mean it's true.

If we ever have a 1 or 2 to go with the 3/4 that you are assuming Cobb to be, that player will very likely come up on a rookie contract/pre-arby contract. There are very few pitchers that I see that we could trade for that would come at a high salary cost. And if we aren't getting one now, we never are getting an Arrieta or even better "1 or 2" type in free agency. This is a good point. I've thought a similar thing as everyone has argued about TOR over and over. We really can't acquire this true Ace person in any reasonable way and keep long term. So we're kind of left filling out a deep rotation with good but not great Ps. Teams like that can still win.

In this market you'd have to think 4 years is the most he's getting. Of course I'm no expert but sure seems that way, we'll see. Maybe the 4th as a player option for him in case he's done well and wants to try and cash in again?

That kind of stuff happens all the time. Plus we don't really know where the 'leak' came from. It could be Boras saying it and the reporter repeating it for whatever reasons, usually to stay in favor of the agent. so could be just the reporters doing favors, again this happens all time. Long story short, don't put too much stock in info that is intentionally put out there by someone, take it for what it is

Umm, to try and stay on his good side as he controls a couple very important FAs in the next few years for them. Didn't think that was too hard to grasp. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'd have taken him back but not at the price/years, with how little it was ever talked about you have to think they were miles apart on years and money.

Or it could be the Cubs doing Arrieta/Boras a favor by saying that publicly.

At this point I'm going to make the assumption taht we get one of the 3 remaining FA pitchers and I actually think it will be at a price tag that we're generally comfortable with. Feel like there just isn't enough teams chasing them and at some point they're just going to have to take the best they can get and one will end up with us. We'll see in the next few days. One thing I think missed in this whole Cubs talk is that they're clearly the 3rd best team on paper in the NL. They're a clear step below WAS and LAD yet we're having a discussion about them as a possibly historically great team. I mean, what about Washington.