paul253

The idea of putting a roster together for the sake of better attendance is what got us into this mess to begin with. I don't know what pains me more: the fact that Mark thinks so little of the average fan that he feels they'll turn and run at the first sight of a rebuild or the fact that so many average fans WILL run. At this point there is zero reason to keep Gomez Lucroy and Segura. Zero. But I'll be surprised if even one of them is moved.....shocked if more than one. And it's almost entirely because they don't want to make it look like they are rebuilding even though that is exactly what they need to do. This long, slow decline is made all that more painful by the refusal, for whatever reason, to accept the state of the franchise and take necessary steps to correct it.

You're right we don't have a hole now. We still have an entire half season before Ramirez retires. That's assuming he's not traded first. Plenty of time. Seriously though, I like Rogers but he's been brutal at third base. I think he needs to stay at first or go to the outfield. Perez has been good in his short time in Milwaukee but his career numbers are awful. .230/.254/.305. He's got no power at all and is probably best served as a utility player, not a full time third baseman. Dominguez hasn't been a whole lot better .233/.275/.374 over 1200+ major league at bats. I'm don't have much faith in any of these guys. As far as who we'd get for Sardinas or Rivera. Well remember the team trading with us would probably have a logjam at their position or a player already blocking the prospect. I doubt we'd get much for Rivera but Sardinas has to have some value. He's only 22 and is major league ready. It's not like I'm expecting a top ten prospect back. Just someone of similar value. I think SS is a very valued position so that might increase the return a bit as well. But either way without making a move what are you gonna do with all these guys? You only need so many middle infielders and utility players.

I get that but the hole is now and the solution is....well there is no solution. Right now Milwaukee has three players who are probably major league ready at SS (segura Sardinas and Arica) and a fourth who could at the very least play major league caliber defense (Rivera). Meanwhile third base is so barren they've had to take chances on guys that were designated for assignment because their play was so bad. It'd be a matter of trading one of your three minor league shortstops. You still have plenty of coverage in case the move doesn't pan out. And if the prospect you trade for doesn't cut it then you're in the same position you are now.

I'm not saying you're wrong but if that is true that is pathetic. You won't trade a prospect for a prospect because you're afraid to look bad if you end up losing the trade? If you're that thin skinned you should be in no position to make trades to begin with.

Why don't we see more prospect for prospect deals? A team like Milwaukee would be on perfect position to do that. We are loaded at SS but have nothing at 1B and 3B. Meanwhile we aren't really in position to be trading for an established player. So why not move a guy like Rivera, Sardinas or even Gatewood for a prospect at first or third base?

Just because Melvin says it, doesn't mean it's true. He could sit on them and find no offers in the off-season. There's a certain risk/reward for sitting on your assets too long as well. Melvin has pretty much limited himself to one offseason to get a good offer for Gomez due to his refusal to make him available before then. So like RoCo said he's taking a big risk by just assuming he'll get more in the offseason, especially when teams know it's pretty much a now or never to move him. Sure you can move him at the deadline next year but his value will be even more diminished. Beside, I think his logic behind that argument is flawed. Melvin says that more teams would be interested in the offseason because during the season only teams in the playoff hunt would make a move. While that may be true it ignores the fact that there are plenty of teams who, even during the offseason, aren't looking to add someone like Gomez, who is going to cost a few good prospects. I think there probably may be a few more teams open to it in the offseason but I'm not sure that is enough to outweigh the fact that teams who trade for him during the season get him for the rest of that season plus another full season.

This year has been absolutely miserable for the Brewers. Literally everything that could wrong has, and I am not just talking about on the field. It's seasons like this that just get me irritated as you know what at Melvin. Gomez should have already been traded. So should Lohse. Melvin, as usual, has missed the opportunity to trade these guys when their value was highest. Now Lohse is untradable and Gomez's value has plummeted because he can't stay healthy. Additionally, Garza should not have been signed. He's going to turn into the next Suppan/Lohse. We claim he's available now, mainly because nobody wants him, but we all know darn well if he was pitching well Melvin wouldn't trade him because he still has two years left on his contract. Then you have Lucroy. At first I was thinking we should trade him but would be ok with it if we didn't. Now, as others have pointed out, it's clear that keeping him is pointless. You're not going to extend him, and if do you'll probably end up regretting it. We're clearly not going to be a winning team during the remainder of his contract. So what is the point of hanging to him? Melvin should be actively shopping him, not trying to play it cool with his usual "well I'm not motivated to trade him". He sure as heck ought to be motivated to move him. Finally, Segura. It's not necessary to move him now but if not now definitely in the offseason. We have 3 major league ready shortstops and gaping holes at first base, third base and starting pitcher. Common sense would suggest you trade from a position of strength to try to improve a position of weakness. If you don't move Segura then move Sardinas. You probably won't get as much but you'd clear the logjam a bit and probably buy another year before you have to make a trade. Ultimately if at least 2 of Segura, Lucroy and Gomez are not traded before next season then I think Melvin will have missed yet another opportunity to improve the long term outlook of the franchise. I doubt he's back next season anyway but I'll just say right now if he is I will have lost even more faith in this franchise then I already have.

Next year's draft is going to be huge. We HAVE TO get a #1 potential arm next year. And that means doing what you need to to guarantee a top 5 pick. If we can do that, as well as maximize the trade value of Gomez, Lucroy and Segura, then 2018 or 2019 could be the year things start to get real good. The potential to turn this around relatively soon is there.....but only if we don't miss out on the opportunities like we have all too often in the past by hanging onto guys too long.

I don't expect to see much optimism, but the complaining on how we aren't going to do this or that because Melvin is dumb or because we never do anything etc. etc. etc. seems endless. Melvin has a long track record of hanging on to players too long. Not trading them when their value is at its peak and instead believing that their value will stay that high until the final year of their contract. That's what is going to happen with Lucroy and maybe even Gomez. Couple that with Mark A.'s belief that short term attendance is more important than long term success and that is where the pessimism comes from. You can be as optimistic as you want but believing Doug and Mark are going all of sudden start doing things they've never done before seems more foolish than optimistic. If Melvin had made even one good "for the future" trade perhaps I'd have a sliver of hope. But even the Greinke trade, perhaps the only trade that even really fits that category, hasn't seemed to work out all that well as both Hellweg and Pena have seemed to reach their ceilings and Segura appears to be an average ML shortstop at best.

The Brewers have been jerking Thornburg around his entire major league career. No reason to stop now I guess.

This almost seems too ideal a fit to happen. If I were Melvin I'd call the Mets GM and say "Gomez and Segura are available. Gimme a call when you're ready to talk". Definitely have to walk away with either Syndergaard or Matz. I'd like Molina as well. I'm not high on Cecchini as he is just a .257 career minor league hitter with no power at all. Conforto is a guy I'd take as well.

In no particular order: 1) Mark Rogers 2) Mike Jones 3) Dana Eveland 4) Angel Salome 5) Lou Palmisano 6) Brad Nelson 7) Logan Schafer 8) David Krynzel 9) Nick Neugebauer 10) Ben Hendrickson

Right now Holmes for the two would be laughable...but July maybe it is less crazy. I think you are overvaluing Holmes right now. I understand he has a lot of upside but you're talking two established Major League pitchers for an A ball prospect. I wasn't even suggesting Holmes for Lohse AND Garza, I was suggesting him for Lohse OR Garza. Again, I understand he has a lot of upside but he's years away from contributing. A lot could go wrong over that time.

What about Lohse or Garza straight up for Holmes? Holmes obviously has a lot of upside but is still years away from making any sort of contribution. The Dodgers can afford to do away with one prospect to get a starter who can help them now. Holmes was the guy I really wanted in the draft last season.

Sabathia trade: I would have done it. The farm system was loaded at the time. And the future was finally, finally starting to look brighter. A playoff birth that season with the core still young and under control gave a lot of us a lot of hope. It's really a shame that Sheets and Gallardo both got hurt that season. It could have been a special year. Marcum trade: Wasn't big on moving Lawrie but you needed pitching. He was signed for two years and at the time it looked like you could always flip him after the season if you wanted. Would have done it. Greinke: They already acquired Marcum so why not. I loved the trade at the time. Like Marcum he had two years left. I think the 2011 team was the best team since at least '92. That was a fun year. Lohse: Absolutely not. It reeked of panic. You lost a first round pick. I know Mark doesn't care about that but maybe if they had actually been drafting quality players in the first round he'd have had a different opinion. His first picks up until that time included Laporta, who was traded, Lawrie, who was traded, Covey, who didn't sign, and Jungmann and Bradley, which had been a major disaster. Only Braun and Coulter were quality picks up until that time and the Coulter pick was way too early to know if it was any good. He didn't value the first round pick like he should have. And plus, while Lohse was an above average pitcher he was certainly not the kind of player that would put you over the top. I'll add another few moves: Ramirez: Wouldn't have done it. Like Lohse I think it was a panic move. They had just lost Fielder and were desperate for power. I think they'd have been better off resigning Hairston or, and I know hindsight is 20/20, but giving Taylor Green a shot. He was the Minor Year POY the year before after hitting .336/.413/.583 with 22 home runs in Nashville. Matt Garza: Wouldn't have done it. I didn't see what problem it solved at the time. Another pitcher past his prime who may get you some more wins but isn't going to get you to the playoffs because the rest of the team just isn't good enough. I really, really wanted Tyler Thornburg to get a shot at the rotation but this move pretty much killed that idea.

I don't listen to much talk radio....I find a lot of the callers to be completely out of touch...but I think the consensus here is to do a moderate reload so we don't have to do a complete rebuild. I think Melvin has missed a lot of opportunities to trade guys at their peak and I don't want to see him do that yet again. I think he should have traded Gomez this past offseason but I definitely think he should be traded now (this season I mean). Let a team make a run with him and keep him another year. You should be able to get two good prospects for him. I think he should trade Segura because, quite honestly, we don't need him. But if you wait too long, until you have a major logjam at SS, teams are going to use that against you. I think you can get could two (not as) good prospects for him as well. Same with Lucroy. You can get quality prospects for him. Make trades that will benefit your team beginning in 2017 when some of your own prospects are going to start making their way up here. Yeah you give up on this year and next year but it's not going to be an 8 year process like it was back when we started drafting guys like Weeks, Fielder and Braun.

This franchise cannot and should not so easily dismiss an opportunity, albeit a short term one, that exists for 2016 What opportunity? The opportunity to sneak into the playoffs one last time before we fall into an 8 year rebuild project because we have no talent left anywhere in the system? That's not what the let's blow it up crowd wants. The let's blow it up crowd wants to start the rebuild now while we still have players that actually have some trade value. You mention that other entire core other than Ramirez and Lohse are back next year. I wonder though is that really a good thing? This team just a year older? Who is going to play third base? It's not like Ramirez is blocking any top prospects from playing right now. Who is going to replace Lohse? Thornburg? Jungmann? I'm fine with that but those aren't replacements that are going to get us over the top. So we take that money from the contract savings and spend it yet another old, veteran #3-#4 starter and a third basemen? Is that really what you want? Is that what you think is best for the organization? In my opinion it is imperative that we get at least 2 good high ceiling prospects for Gomez this year. You're not going to re-sign him. We're not winning with him. There is no reason to keep him. There is also no reason to hang onto Segura after this season. Assuming he keeps up his decent year, his value is probably as high as it's ever going to be. We already have a young SS to replace him (Sardinas) and we also have two others, including what should be a top 50 prospect in Arcia, that should be ready soon after. Do what they should be doing and recycle the talent. See if you can get some young pitching for him. Or a young third baseman. Lucroy is the one guy I think we should trade but would be ok hanging onto for now. We have no real in house replacements and his contract is still pretty team friendly. But make it known that he can be had for the right price. He might get you more than Gomez. I honestly think by trading those three you can walk away with at least 5 top 100 prospects and probably some more pieces. Couple that with the 15th pick this year and possibly a top 10 pick next year. That is what this organization needs. Not one last shot at a playoff berth with an over the hill team.

So they're looking to trade Lohse and Garza, but no one will give them anything for them. There is a slight chance they'll deal Gomez, probably won't deal Segura and won't even listen to an offer when someone calls desperate for Lucroy. Yeah, the future looks really bright. My thoughts exactly. You're aware of how negotiation works aren't you? I get this idea that some people think GM's are always trying to use code words and secret spy tactics to fool people into giving up more then they want. Sometimes they actually do mean what they say. Like Monty said "unavailable" seems pretty definitive. If I am a GM and I call another GM about a player only to be told he's not available, I'm going to look somewhere else, not increase my offer. My biggest fear about this team is that they aren't taking this awful start seriously enough. Yeah it's cool to trade Lohse or Garza or KRod but you're not going to get anything for them. You're talking a low ceiling prospect or some savings in money. Certainly nothing that's going to help turn the ship around. The Brewers have 3 pieces that could get something decent in return. Lucroy, Gomez and Segura. If they trade one of them I'll be surprised. Two I'll be shocked. I don't see what the problem is. Clearly they aren't going to win with them so why hold onto them and let their value decrease?

he Mets have no need for a CF...care to elaborate why you think they do? Lagares is signed to a 5/$25mil contract and is possibly the best CFer defensively in the game. He was a 5.5 WAR player last year. They have no place to add a CFer. I'm just looking at offense. His offense is terrible.....always has been. An career OBP of .300, including .291 this season. A career OPS of .661, including .616 this season. 9 career home runs in about 1000 plate appearances. Cuddyer is also having a terrible season offensively, as are the Mets as a whole. The team is 10th in the NL in scoring, 10th in HR's, 12th in OBP, 13th in OPS. Pitching is obviously their strength. I realize the contracts to Lagares and Cuddyer make it a difficult situation but they could always move someone in the offseason. Gomez would be a huge upgrade offensively to Lagares and not much of a drop defensively, if one at all. He'd also be a huge upgrade both offensively and defensively to Cuddyer. It would definitely be an all-in move for the Mets.

Whether we get Syndergaard or not I still think the Mets are a good partner. They need a CF and as other alluded to could probably go for a SS as well. I don't think we actually have many quality trade chips but we do have a CF and a SS that could be moved. I have to be honest I didn't realize that Steve Matz was such a quality prospect. Obviously I'd still like Syngergaard but I wouldn't be upset with Matz after looking at his career numbers. Plus he's a lefty, which we lack in this organization. Gomez for Matz + maybe a lower level quality prospect would seem like a good deal. Gomez for Matz and Molina?

If you were the Mets GM, would you trade Syndergaard for Gomez? It's hard to say because I'm not nearly as familiar with their team, their system or the state of their franchise right now as I am with Milwaukee's. I do know they are in first place now and have good starting pitching and a terrible offense. I do know Gomez would be a huge upgrade over what they are throwing out at CF right now. And I do know they seem to have some depth at SP. Next season the Mets could have Wheeler, Harvey, deGrom, and Syndergaard in the rotation together, that's special. And this season they could play in a World Series. That's pretty special too. I don't know what the Mets are thinking but I'm looking at this from the Brewer's perspective. I'm not trading Gomez for quantity. If the Mets don't give us what we want then we don't trade with them. I'm just saying the after seeing Syndergaard pitch he's the guy I'd target.

In order to get something you have to give something up. Gomez is an excellent player and he's signed through next year too. Other than Syndergaard the Mets still have 5 other starters with ERAs under 4 (I'm assuming one is injured right now?) Also, their starting CF has an OPS of .623. Gomez is struggling big time right now and his OPS is still .746. His defense is also Gold Glove caliber. He'd be a huge upgrade to the Mets lineup. I am all for moving Gomez. I actually think it's overdue. But don't settle for a couple of B prospects. If I'm trading Gomez to the Mets I'm getting Syndergaard back.

After seeing Synderggard pitch today I'll say yes please to any trade involving him. I'm not sure if he's enough straight up for Gomez but he looks like he's got a ton of potential. Definitely the type of player Milwaukee should be looking for.

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/24-reboot-jack-bauer-118970462735.html Saw a story about them possibly developing another season of 24 minus Jack. It'd be a little weird because Jack is the only character who lasted every season. I could maybe live with it though, especially if it keeps the real time format. I thought a season maybe centered around Kate trying to rescue Jack could be kind of interesting. Jack could just make an appearance in the final episode. Or according to this story Tony Almeida is still in play. Maybe a 24 spinoff involving him. Either way I hope something happens. 24 is my all time favorite series.

I agree. Go high upside. If Aiken is available and his medical is ok take him. If not I like Betts too. We have a huge need at catcher and even if he can't stick there we have a huge need at 1B too. Surely he can move there.