paul253

Who? Davis has already tried apparently and that didn't work. Coulter and Santana both supposedly have fantastic throwing arms, which would be wasted at 1B. Lucroy would be below average there offensively. Who is a better option than Braun?

Every position has its own unique set of skills but outside of maybe corner outfield first base is clearly the easiest to pick up. I understand that you still have to practice and learn new stuff but let's not act like it is as difficult to pick up as shortstop, catcher third base or center field are. There is a reason that the bigger, slower, less agile guys usually end up there.

By "involved in every ground ball" are you referring to catching it when somebody throws it to him?

People would still give us a ton for Lucroy. I don't think we'd necessarily be selling low. If he has another poor season next year however.... I've never really understood the "it makes no sense to trade Lucroy" argument. If you were planning on extending him that'd be one thing. But I don't think they are, or should be, planning on doing that. He's getting up there in age and if you move him to first his offense I'd imagine would be below average offensively. He is precisely the kind of player we need to move away from. We've gotten his best years from him now trade him while you can still get something for him. I could a package similar to the Gomez package for him. Braun. I'd trade him too if the package was good enough. I think we'd be best to move him to first base after this season where he can mostly focus on offense and staying healthy. I'm just not sure his contract will allow for a good enough offer for him.

Situations like this make me upset about the stupid DH rule. If we were an American League team this wouldn't be an issue. Just put Santana at DH. Instead since we are an NL team we are talking about trading guys or switching positions just to make room for him. Just like how we wouldn't have had to trade Overbay to make room for Fielder had we been an AL team. There really needs to be a rule change making both leagues equal.

Man did we luck out when the Mets GM changed his mind.

We actually have almost no prospects at AAA that project to be above average regulars. But starting next season we could have anywhere between 2 and 5. Definitely Arcia and Phillips. Maybe Santana Taylor and Reed. We don't need to go and trade away prospects until we are seeing the benefits of this at the major league level. We don't need to go and trade away prospects until we are seeing the benefits of this at the major league level. But is it even possible to see the benefits of everyone if they are this close to each other? Let's take the outfield for example. At the major league level we have Davis and Braun here long term. The prevailing opinion is that Braun will be traded or moved to first so let's remove him from the conversation. That still leaves us Davis Santana Phillips Taylor and Reed that are either major league ready or within a year and Roache and Coulter right behind them. Are they all going to turn out? Doubtful. But in order to determine if they will turn out they actually have to play and play for at least two years, maybe more. So if we give, for instance Reed and Santana a chance next year what do we do with Taylor and Phillips when they are ready? What if Reed and/or Santana put up ok numbers.....not good but not bad? Do we go with them again in 2017 or do we let Phillips and Taylor have a shot? The common argument is that these things work themselves out but that can't always be true. Sometimes you actually have to do something about it. It's a good problem to have but its still a problem. And meanwhile you still have absolutely nothing at catcher or third base. Now don't get me wrong I am NOT advocating trading prospects for expensive veterans. I'd prefer younger guys at a position of need (Maikel Franco was a name I threw out). But sometimes it's wiser to get out in front of the problem before the good problem becomes a bad problem, like when guys who are clearly ready for an extended major league shot are relegated to AAA or bench duty, hurting both their game and their value. This is also why I think that when trading for prospects, especially upper level prospects like we seem to be aiming for, position absolutely should be a factor. I think it would be ludicrous, for example, to move Braun or Lucroy for a package centered around an upper level outfield prospect when we will have six guys at AA or higher next year who look like they'll deserve a look at the major league sometime in the near future. Now obviously if the prospect is a cant-miss all-star potential outfield prospect that's different. But guys like that are rarely moved nowadays. Focus on filling glaring holes and getting a good all around team as opposed to creating an even bigger "good problem".

The guy I wanted to target before his recent injury was Maikel Franco from Philly. I don't know if they would have moved him but considering they are as bad as we are I think they may have considered it. I'd have given them anyone but Arcia, whom they probably don't need anyway.

Trwi it wouldn't be focusing on one position it'd be focusing on one of three positions. I think it be more foolish to trade Lucroy for an outfielder or shortstop then to not trade him unless you get back a third basemen, catcher, or quality starting pitcher. The absolute last thing we need are shortstops and outfielders so why would you take one back for him? And just to be clear I'm not suggesting we trade him for the best third basemen catcher or pitcher we can get. I'm saying trade him if you can get a good enough return from a team willing to give up a player who plays one of those three positions.

The Brewers started the rebuild. I just hope they finish it. I don't want them to slap another team together that Mark thinks will win enough games keep fair weather fans around. They need to move Adam Lind. I realize they probably won't get much for him but there is literally no reason to keep him. Next year would more than likely be his final year anyway. He's terrible vs lefties and we can fill the position internally either with Braun (long term) or Rogers (short term). Trade him and maybe grab a lower level corner infield prospect. Trade Lucroy and focus entirely on getting back either a catching prospect a third base prospect or a starting pitching prospect with #1 or #2 potential. Any one of those would fill a huge need. Then just go with you have. Use Segura until Arcia is ready. Use Schafer or Peterson until Taylor, Phillips or Reed takes over. Put Santana in RF. Fill the final spot in the rotation with Cravy Thornburg or Davies. Then just keep developing everyone else. They'll draft someone who will likely be a top five organizational and top 100 overall prospect. I was as down on this organization as anyone. But it seems like they MAY have figured it out.

I actually think things could turn around as early as 2017 if they do things right. By do things right I mean give up on 2016. Trade Lucroy. He'll still bring back something significant even with his down year. Trade Lind because what's the point of keeping him? Then move Braun to 1b and let Santana play RF. Finally DONT make any significant FA signings. 2016 would probably suck bad but come 2017 you'll have Arcia Phillips and Santana as major contributors. You'll still have Peralta Nelson and Jungmann plus Hader Davies Lopez Cravy and/or Wagner filling in the back end. coulter will be close. reed will probably be up. And this doesn't even include the return for Lucroy and a likely top five pick next draft. Plus Harrison Williams Medeiros will all be two years closer. As I'm writing this I'm realizing holy crap we have a lot of outfielders. Maybe eventually some could be moved for a third baseman.

It's not so much labeling them an ace as projecting them as one.

We still lack an ace, which I'm hoping can be solved in next years draft, but the system has come a long way in the past two years. I'm hopeful the Brewers don't hold these guys back in the minors because of average to below average major leaguers like Davis and Segura. I'd love to see the option on Lind picked up then have him traded and Braun moved to first to solve that problem for a few years while also opening up RF for Santana.

Please let them move Lind and let Rogers play first. Next year is going to a lost year anyway so why pay Lind while simultaneously benching a guy who has nothing left to prove in AAA? Even if you get a lower level corner infield prospect it's a help.

I'd let thornburg start the rest of the year. If he does really well then maybe next year they can put him the bullpen as a long reliever and then send him down to AAA to start. Just keep rotating him between big league reliever and AAA starter. That won't affect his game at all. Oh wait....

I think it's a tough call. When you factor in defense I think I might go with the Cubs players.

The Brewers need to decide in the next year what they want to do with him. If they want him to be a lifetime brewer then offer him a contract while his numbers are down. If they don't then figure out when to trade him. None of this waiting til the last second when it's too late to trade him and either too expensive or not worth resigning him and therefore losing him for nothing. This is what I mean when I say they need a long term plan. Look more than a season down the road to see what direction you want to go. Personally I'd be fine giving him another two years at $10-$12 million a year. But decide soon.

Getting away from all the trade talk for a minute. Watching the Brewers-Cubs tonight has got me thinking. If you could pick one group of players, when they were in their primes as prospects, who would you have taken: Fielder Braun and Weeks or Schwarber, Bryant and Russell? Again you are assuming when you get them they are at the peak of their minor league careers. Which group of prospects would you have taken?

Ennder: I disagree that that is the only way for us to win it all. I think in order for us to win it all we have to first and foremost acquire an ace and to have a staff capable of posting an era in the top half of the league. Imagine how good this team could have been from 2007-2011 if they had the pitching to go with the hitting. The Brewers problem has consistently been pitching. But rather than go all in and trade away everyone for a Zack Greinke they need to develop their Zack Greinke so they can keep him for six years as opposed to one or two. that's why I've been so adamant about moving guys like Gomez and Lucroy. Without top ten picks, using them as trade bait is really the only shot they have at getting that pitcher. I'm praying they can get a top five pick next June so they can draft that player but trading Lucroy for one might be the easier and safer route to take. Once you have that and can compliment him with your nelsons and jungmanns and eventually your Mederios and Williams you can win year in year out with the same guys. The key is to constantly recycle those players rather than trying to squeeze every bit of value you can get from them and hang onto them until they are in their mid thirties.

Yeah he's having a down year. So what? Players having down years get traded all the time. Heck Gomez wasn't having all that great of a year. Lucroy has a long track record of success and is a premium player at a premium position with a very team friendly contract and multiple years of control. I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount that even with his down year had he been moved he'd have brought back more straight up then Gomez. As far as what 'stache is talking about I think he makes a good point. It made total sense to buy last year and sell this year. I just don't want to see them move away from those common sense tactics this offseason by going out and overspending on a free agent or two under the pretense of "competing" just so it doesn't hurt season ticket sales. It seems like they finally got it right by moving the older more expensive players. Don't screw that up by signing a bunch of older expensive players in the offseason. Stick to the long term (even though I don't think it has to be that long of a term) plan of developing young talented players. Keep up with the high ceiling drafting and the international spending and continue to build from within. If I see that then it'll start to convince me that maybe they do have a long term plan and wont continuously patch together a team that hovers around .500.

Those rotations look so much better than they did three years ago. I'm really excited by Kirby and Lopez. And I'm hoping Thornburg gets a legit shot at the rotation. He's been jerked around like no other. And please no FA signings. We have enough in house options to fill that spot. My ideal mlb rotation is Garza Peralta Nelson Jungmann and Thornburg with Cravy Wagner and Lopez as the first three backup options.

I agree it's entirely possible that they couldn't get what they wanted for Lucroy. But did you get the sense he was really truly available? Not in the sense that everyone is available for the right price but available as in "yes we will openly listen to legitimate offers for him"? I sure didn't. Which makes me wonder why. Could they be hanging onto him with the goal of competing in 2017? Yes. But isn't that the same kind of short sightedness I'm talking about? It's one thing to hold on to Fielder for one last year when you have the complimentary pieces to surround him and the farm system to get your ace. But while we may have the prospects to go get an ace for a year or two we certainly don't have the complimentary pieces that we had in 2011. That's why I can't imagine hanging onto him now is being done with the goal of winning it all in 2017. They just aren't there. Look obviously I'm not privy to what's going on in the front office. Is it possible they are hangin on to Lucroy because when they dangled his name they didn't get the offers they wanted? Or because they plan on hi being a part of their next playoff team? Of course. But it's also possible they are keeping him so the casual fans keep showing up for games. Because they are afraid of the backlash of them trading the one guy most fans recognize and respect. for other posters to sit here and act like that is some far fetched conspiracy theory type suggestion is rather annoying.

It's ok. People are allowed to disagree with you. Maybe once you accept that you're headache will go away. The whole idea of trading people and ticket sales is tied together. It doesn't matter if it is Gomez or lucroy. Gomez was traded because he had less team control and Lucroy is more of a "face of the franchise". Do you disagree? What is the other logical reason for keeping Lucroy? Are they planning on extending him? I'd say no given reports that he approached them about an extension and they turned him down. Do they think they are going to win in the time they have left with him? I doubt it because if they did they wouldn't have traded Gomez. So what's the reason to hang on to him? Obviously you're the expert. Help me out.

The one thing I'll agree on is that the Brewers can't seem to commit to the long term. It seems as if it's more about selling tickets now then sustained success starting three years from now. This year appears to be the first time in quite awhile that the Brewers actually made moves designed to help a few years down the road rather than trying to convince fans that next year could be their year. It's encouraging but I'd like to see it next year too before I get my hopes up. This organization is still woefully thin in front line starting pitching and has no answer for the corner infield spots.. I'm praying for a top five pick next year where we can begin to address that but even that is just a beginning. The refusal to trade a guy like lucroy still bothers me as he is not a long term piece. He is not someone the Brewers should be building around yet it seems as though that is exactly what they are doing. So again while this trade deadline shows some willingness to admit they aren't close to where they need to be I just hope they stick with that rather than go make another stupid FA signing this winter and proclaim themselves contenders again.

I guess I just don't understand how this took so long to figure out. He's already missed basically an entire season now if he has TJ it'll be a whole second season. So much for his prospect status.