82brewcrew82

So now he can get crushed by left handers on the road and at home? I kid........sort of. I don't mind the signing, I just like it more if Nelson is healthy and they acquired a legit TOR.

Chacin's numbers outside of PETCO were just awful. Not sure whey folks are just penciling that in as a significant upgrade. You state that the rotation is markedly improved even without Nelson. I just don't know that that is a true statement.

So the hope is that if nearly everything goes wrong for the Cubs and nearly everything goes right for the Brewers we might have a chance? I don't care if the Cubs had to spend millions to have a better rotation, the point is they have a better rotation. Montgomery is their sixth starter, he would probably be the 3 on the Brewers. If they have injuries, they have the resources to compensate.

I'm not saying their pitching is awful. I like Anderson and Davies. I'm optimistic about Chacin and the bullpen should be good. I just think the last two rotation spots are awful, and yes, that does go a long way toward making their pitching less than competitive with the upper echelon teams. I mean, Washington, LA, Chicago; those teams 4th best starter is probably our best starter. Heck, we have a thread talking about picking up scraps off of their rotation to make ours better.

With all due respect, that is garbage. It's not "garbage" dude. You know what's garbage? Over-paying and wasting draft picks on injured/aging guys in notable decline in free agency, especially when you're a small market. Why are the Brewers in this position in the first place? Everyone thought they were supposed to tank, but last season was a testament to how buy-low guys and under-the-radar steals are not only better values than retreads, injury risks, and guys on the decline, they're often better, period. And people want to turn right around after all the success they had last year and waste money and draft picks on 30-something free agent pitchers with all kinds of red flags, going back to the logic that basically squandered one of the best minor league systems this century in Mark A's first 10 years. It blows my mind. At least Garza and Suppan and Wolf and Lohse were totally healthy. To come on here and suggest folks don't know the difference between Woodruff and Cobb is garbage. Let me ask you a question. Have you seen me advocating for them to sign "30-something pitcher with all kinds of red flags"? No, no you have not. I'm not saying any of the FA pitchers this off season would have been good choices. What I am saying is that this rotation isn't up to snuff. Period. We can talk about WHY it isn't up to snuff, but the collection of arms they are attempting to pass off as competitive is, if I'm being kind, less than ideal. Sure, we can look at Guerra and Miley as values but what are the non-marginal differences between those two and Peralta and Milone at the start of last year? The only difference is that the current team is expected to contend.

With all due respect, that is garbage. Many folks on here have laid out their issues with Suter in particular. So much so that I don't even need to mention them and you know what they are. People are acting like there is an either/or choice between using the guys we have or bringing in some upper echelon talent. The smart play was to do both. It's not about building depth, it's about building quality depth. You are going to need quality depth if you really consider yourself a contender. I'd feel much better with Suter, Woodruff, Burnes as my 6th, 7th and 8th options. There isn't one team that is seriously considered a contender that has guys like Gallardo/Miley/Guerra/Suter fighting it out for the last two spots in their rotation.

I specifically said with regard to the rotation. Yes but my original post was in response to someone who basically said "why trade for Yelich and sign Cain if you weren't going to sign one of the top starters?" I believe Yelich and Cain are smart risks and the starters are not, and that's why they did it. These guys are really disciplined and intelligent. Everything is a gamble and it might not all work out, but I believe they are placing the right bets and that pays off in the long run. They didn't see fit to sign any of these guys, and they get the benefit of the doubt easily. With the work they've done in such a short amount of time, it's going to take a long time before I start to doubt them. I don't think it's difficult to envision a scenario where signing a soon to be 32 year old outfielder with a bit of an injury history to a five year $80m contract might be considered an unwise risk. Perhaps if the team were more complete a move like that could be viewed as a "get us over the hump" move and be viewed in a different light.

Those guys only made 35 total starts. You are basically swapping Miley for that group which is a parallel move at best. Now we are literally talking about Chacin replacing Nelson. That ain't an upgrade. Pretty sure Miley gets the ball tomorrow, and they need to decide by Thursday whether to pay him a roster bonus to retain him. If he gets shelled again tomorrow, it wouldn't surprise me if they cut bait. Despite his strong few starts to open camp, it doesn't make any sense for the team to start a guy that is going to get shelled every 3rd time out. Look at it through the lens of a rebuilding team. Makes more sense.

So $80M and a small handful of quality (or better) prospects is just making the team better for the foreseeable future? They were clearly after pitching and had been shopping Santana since the season ended. They had a bigger plan, it just didn't work for whatever reason. They were obviously looking to strike now. I do applaude them for not overreacting and making a really bad decision but they were certainly trying to transition from rebuild to contender. So the fall back is that they are still in rebuild.

Oh how a healthy Neslon would look good on top of this rotation with a solid number two. Instead we argue about whether or not Miley or Guerra will push us over the top.

Those guys only made 35 total starts. You are basically swapping Miley for that group which is a parallel move at best. Now we are literally talking about Chacin replacing Nelson. That ain't an upgrade.

14.25 AAV

Brandon Woodruff lead all of the minor leagues in strikeouts in 2016 & was our top pitching prospect entering 2017. He posted half a win in 43 MLB innings last year. Brent Suter has never been confused for a top prospect, but has gotten people out through his entire career. Not all that different than Zach Davies. He continued to prove the doubters wrong & put up a win and a half in only 81 innings last year. Junior Guerra was our best pitcher in 2016 & entered 2017 as our number one starter. If he regains his 2016 form we have another league average or better starter on our hands. Corbin Burnes is our number one pitching prospect & absolutely dominated at AA last season. He should be ready to get major league hitters out at some point this season. Luis Ortiz & Freddy Peralta are also prospects of some regard who have already experienced success at AA. Miley may be horse fodder at this point, but if the six names above are also horse fodder (I don't believe they are) we are definitely in trouble. Woodruff was OK last year in the majors but not the stud you're making him out to be. I have not problem with Woodruff, problem is he isn't going to be in the rotation to start. Suter is limited in how many times he can go through a lineup. Guerra was garbage last year. Miley is garbage. The rest haven't proven anything at the major league level. The difference is you are projecting the best possible outcome for these guys. That isn't likely to happen.

They're analytical people. I think the formula is: Last year's rotation (8th in MLB in Wins Above Average) minus half season of Nelson minus dead weight (Garza, Peralta, Milone, Espino who combined for 210 innings) plus better OF defense (Cain, Yelich) plus Chacin/Woodruff/Suter (absorbing Nelson's innings and replacing dead weight). I dare say that Woodruff/Suter are much better than the dead weight they are replacing (Garza, Peralta, Milone, Espino), then it boils down to Chacin replacing Nelson and the added value of better OF defense. I don't think it's a bad rotation at all. At least, not much worse than last year, which was pretty darned good. We had a 4.1 era staff. Pen at 3.85. I don't doubt we can match last years staff but if you do AND the pen can get down to 3.6 era (big jump)... you need the offense to score 5 runs (.5 run jump) just to be a likely WC team. Improving from there is very hard to do as we are constructed. I still don't see why folks think Chacin is some kind of magic elixir either.

Doing nothing isn't bold, it's the easy play. Having said that, I have no problem with not getting Cobb but doing nothing with regard to the rotation was never the answer. I'm a fan too but I'm never going to accept that the back end of the rotation is anything other than horse fodder and that ain't cause I want to lose.

This sums up how I feel pretty well. I am sure there is a plan and we will eventually see what it is. Perhaps the Brewers are finally doing what we have always wanted them to do and not buy meddling, mediocre or non-needle moving starting pitchers and going with our prospects. I am excited to see Woodruff, Burnes in the rotation. If we are going with what we have, then go with the youth and not the Gallardo/Miley types. It is entirely possible that they had a plan and it got blown up for some reason. I still believe they intended to move Santana for pitching and just couldn't make it work. So now they have a new plan. Maybe it's a good plan even but it's not as good as the original plan and it changes my outlook for this team.

Good Post.

Cain and Yelich were smart risks. The pitchers were not. So they got Cain and Yelich and I'm sure it will work itself out eventually. I remember when all those relievers were signing for $5m+ per season in November and December and some people here were impatient and angry that the Brewers weren't signing any of them. It's just instant gratification. Patience and discipline are crucial to a small market team's success and they showed it in spades this offseason. I specifically said with regard to the rotation.

15m AAV

Lots of teams have question marks in the rotation. It could go either way. The real risk is spending too much and/or forfeiting draft picks for guys who could easily be worse than Suter and Woodruff due to injury and/or age. Hard to bounce back from that kind of mistake if you're a small market. Cain and Yelich were quite possibly the two best values among high-profile acquisitions in all of baseball this offseason IMO. And it sounds like diminishing the value of saving money and assets for future moves, but that's not a thing you want to underestimate as a small market team. Yes, they are called non-contenders.

I'm not so sure. I think they took smart risks. I also like the fact that they put Braun under pressure to play 1B, which was in their best interests. Aguilar does not have nearly the track record to suggest he's in Braun's class as a hitter, even if Braun continues to have injuries and show signs of decline. And I wouldn't be surprised if Braun is a better fielder than Aguilar and Thames as well. I like the moves. Get the best risk:reward ratios and go from there. Needs change and so do trade opportunities. They're a very smart front office. I'm glad they passed on all these starters at the prices they got. They did the opposite of "take a risk". They did nothing with regard to the rotation. Signing a couple of flyers like Miley and Gallardo is doing nothing.

Eh, I have it on good faith (from a mod earlier in this thread even) that you are crazy if you're not happy with this rotation.

It's the Orioles. There is a 50/50 chance this thing doesn't go through. Don't celebrate yet.

That Brewer World tool tweeted something about Cobb. It's almost like his "source" gets the same info that national writers get, only on a time delay... That account has never represented itself as anything other than a parody. It's not to be taken seriously.

I agree. I don't think Woodruff is in the plans currently. I think it's Suter and Miley.