Ron Robinsons Beard

Feliz was a joke of a signing (still waiting for that "haul") but the counterpoint to that is the Brewers absolutely make the playoffs last year if they'd have signed Charlie Morton, a vet coming off a nothing year. Not quite the same situation, but I remember being thrown under the bus last offseason for even bringing Morton up. But I thought that veteran pitchers coming off injury or poor performance can't rebound? In all seriousness, it does make a lot of sense to give "proven track record" guys like Gallardo and Miley, and to a lesser extent Guerra a shot to see if they can rebound. Honestly, Trevor Cahill is another guy that I wouldn't mind signing to a minor league deal. I guess I'd prefer that shot come in AAA as insurance, though.

Is that really what they're doing, though? IMHO Stearns is posturing with the "we like our group" stuff. Maybe they do, but I would definitely not assume that the Brewers aren't going to add a starter from the Group of 3 within the next couple of weeks. I'd still be surprised if they don't. Stearns is trying to build leverage, IMO. I hope you're right, but each passing day breeds a little more doubt in my mind. I think Stearns is probably being completely truthful when he says he likes the current group, but when he says that, he's not really answering the question. It's a solid GM non-answer, though. Ted Thompson made a career out of those LOL.

That confirms it. Clancyphile is Ryan Braun!

You've been saying this for a really long time now. True. But they haven't signed yet so unless you think all three will retire from the game, let's be patient. This is a unique offseason so we as fans have to alter our timelines. You nailed it. These guys gotta go somewhere eventually. Opening Day can't come soon enough, though.

I'd personally love to see Cobb in the rotation. I'm just saying that if the Brewers felt the same way, he'd already be there. You don't know that. Even if the Brewers would love to have him, they obviously have a price they are willing to pay. You make a lot of assumptions for someone that likes to point out that everyone else is making an assumption.

You're right. It's very odd at this point to see multiple upper end starting pitchers still sitting on the market. Every one of these guys has some sort of a red flag, but I didn't think they were big enough to stop them from procuring a contract. There's gotta be something these teams are seeing that we as fans aren't.

I'd personally love to see Cobb in the rotation. I'm just saying that if the Brewers felt the same way, he'd already be there.

Then they would have signed him to a ML deal. They have several on the 40-man they could have easily dumped to do it.

You are making several assumptions there. All seemingly to fit your justification for being mad that the team for putting Miley in the rotation ... a guy signed to a minor league deal who would need to jump over several players on major league contracts to do so. It's March 5, but it seems like you've already got your mind made up that you're going to hate this team. My assumption was in response to your assumption that he had to climb over players. What exactly is it that leads you to think I'm mad (or are you making an assumption). You have a long history of telling me what my feelings/emotions are and I really wish you'd stop acting as though you know me. I don't hate this team in the least. I am pointing out a potentially serious weakness with this team. When you start resorting to telling me how I feel about this team tells me I hit a nerve and I'm probably not all that far off. Who are all the major league contract guys? Gallardo but the rest of that group is minor league and team controlled players. He isn't jumping anyone.

Exactly, but hopefully it's not that they all suck, and he's the least sucky. In a perfect world, it tells us that Miley is effective enough to be there.

You are making several assumptions there. All seemingly to fit your justification for being mad that the team for putting Miley in the rotation ... a guy signed to a minor league deal who would need to jump over several players on major league contracts to do so. It's March 5, but it seems like you've already got your mind made up that you're going to hate this team.

He was about a 1 WAR pitcher by both Fangraphs and BPro measurements in 2016. Certainly not world beating but again, just fine for a back-end starter. As for "steep decline" - going by his Brooks Baseball data, Miley hasn't experienced a decline in stuff at all. Velocity is about the same as it's been, and if anything part of his command issues with breaking stuff in the recent past may have stemmed from the fact that he's been throwing his slider too hard. The good news is, command is a lot more fixable than a decline in velocity. I get what your saying but you don't get awarded wins based on stuff. As for the things that do get you victories, like getting outs, he's been pretty bad and declining. That is why if he sucks, he won't be pitching for the Brewers. But if he doesn't, he'll have the chance. It isn't like he's locked in for $10 million this season. He hasn't been given anything, and if he's in the rotation, it means he earned it, and passed up quite a few guys in doing so.

He was pretty bad in '16 as well. He looks like he is in pretty steep decline at this point. I don't hate the guy, I just wish he were a bit further down the pecking order. No one knows what the pecking order is. Miley is on a minor league deal, which to me would indicate he's below Gallardo, Guerra, Woodruff, Suter and possibly even Wilkerson in the pecking order. It certainly is possible he could pitch well enough in spring training to move up that pecking order, and he certainly hasn't done anything to disappoint so far, much to my and many others' chagrin around here. And at the end of the day, if he pitches well enough to pass all those guys up, it's a good thing for the Brewers. But if he doesn't, and is gifted a rotation spot anyway because of "veteranness", "grittyness" "left-handedness" or any other tired baseball cliche, I'll be mad.

Who's doing that? I want Suter and Woodruff to get the spots. I just argued that Gallardo and Miley aren't bad depth pieces to have in the system. It isn't like those two are going to be blocking anyone in Colorado Springs, either. If they rediscover what once made them good pitchers, great! If they don't, you cut bait. Both are low risk deals. That said, the way Miley has pitched so far, it wouldn't surprise me to see him get a rotation spot. I would think the leash would be short with him, though. I'd much rather sink or swim with Woodruff and Suter.

True, the last couple years don't inspire much confidence in Miley and Gallardo, but those two do have a track record of once being good starting pitchers. Perhaps they'll never find "it" again, but at least there is a history of an "it" there to potentially be found. Same thing with Guerra, who was great in 2016 but is now basically an afterthought. I agree with you completely that they could use another good starting pitcher. I think our disagreement stems from me believing that the cupboard is pretty well stocked, while you believe it isn't. Fair enough. I guess my question to you, then, is what would make you happy? Cobb? Arrieta? Both?

Wow. I think an optimist would call that list optimistic. Every team has a bunch of names. The difference is that if the upper echelon teams sign a Wade Miley, there is zero expectation that he is anywhere near the rotation unless something went horribly wrong. We are getting giddy or a mechanical tweak with Miley as a realistic option for the opening day rotation....and if that doesn't work, we ll we have a ton of unproven minor league pitchers. And they better hope regular season Chacin is much better than spring training Chacin or this whole thing is done. I don't want to see Miley in the rotation, mechanical tweak or not. If they don't make an acquisition, I'm pulling for Woodruff and Suter to round out the rotation. I actually think Suter has a spot pretty much sewn up. So that means realistically Woodruff, Gallardo, Miley, Guerra and Wilkerson are competing for one spot. If Woodruff gets it, having vets like Miley, Guerra and Gallardo around certainly isn't a bad thing.

I was the 1 year following tj cuz it didn't work. Not wanting to add a 2 to the staff who could be a 1 if he gets that pitch back because we have a guy who can throw 4 ip sub 4 era per outing is an interesting choice. Especially since cobb was better without his best pitch. The issue with your argument is that it contains a ton of assumption. None of us has any idea how the Brewers view Cobb, and the likelihood that he can get his best pitch back. We have no idea what kind of value they place on him, or, frankly, what he's asking for. The only things that Stearns and Attanasio have said are that there is money available to sign a top-end starter (Attanasio), and that they aren't going to make a move in that direction unless it's a player that significantly moves the needle and is a demonstrably better option than what they already have in-house (Stearns). It is possible that Stearns and the team's analytics team don't view Cobb as an upgrade over what they have, or that he isn't enough of an upgrade to justify the contract he's asking for. They could be viewing Arrieta in that same light. Perhaps the demands from those two will drop to the point where Stearns considers them a solid investment. But since none of us actually knows where that point actually is, it's just guesswork at this point.

That’s all good and well but let’s once again look at our current alternatives. Wade Miley. Yovani Gallardo. Junior Guerra. All of them were awful last year. Two of them were awful the year before that as well. Our starting pitching depth is, quite honestly, a joke. And it’s quite possible that refusing to give Cobb an extra year may cost us playoff berth, not necessarily because he’s that good, but because the alternatives are that bad. I’m all for picking up guys on the cheap and hoping they turn it around. But when you have a legitimate chance at the playoffs, which we do because of our offense, I hate to rely so heavily on that type of player. If Miley and Gallardo get a significant number of starts between the two of them this year I think it’s going to be a long year. I certainly could be wrong and hope I am. But I hate to see a season wasted because we refuse to give better pitchers an extra year or a few more million dollars. I think this offseason is more an exception than the new rule. Next offseason is going to see a ridiculous amount of spending. I agree that this team could definitely use another upper-end starter. But the sky isn't falling, either, as you seem to be implying. And to call the starting pitching depth a joke I believe is a flat out fallacy. This team actually has a ton of starting pitching depth. it's just that none of it is what anyone would call established high-quality. Anderson Davies Chacin Woodruff Suter Guerra Gallardo Miley Wilkerson Lopez Burnes Peralta Derby Perrin Ortiz That's 15 guys who you could theoretically see start games for the team this year, and that isn't even taking into account injury-return guys like Nelson and Houser. No, depth isn't the issue. Track record and name familiarity arguably is, though. The team's starting pitching depth is actually better than its been in years. Acquiring a player like Arrieta or Cobb would definitely be a nice cherry on top, though, and would allow guys like Miley and Gallardo to go down to AAA to work out their kinks, instead of trying to work them out at the ML level.

Yo still has 3-4 outings to figure things out. If he doesn't, he won't be on the team, simple as that. If he does, I would say that he's an odds-on favorite for a rotation spot. I imagine the leash isn't going to be real long, though.

You're honestly ok with this rotation? Anderson Davies Chacin Guerra - One year wonder, theres a reason he didnt make his MLB until 30 Miley/Gallardo - 2 of the worst pitchers the last 2 seasons IF Nelson was healthy right now, I would be fine with Nelson Anderson Davies Chacin Woodruff/Suter/Guerra/Miley/Gallardo battling for 5th spot But Jimmy isnt healthy. I fear that due to the rumors and talk over the last month that you have jacked yourself up so much on the idea of Cobb being a Brewer that it's going to be a hard fall for you if it doesn't happen. But with each passing day, the chance of him being a Brewer is probably going down. I too would love to see the rotation fortified but if they roll with what they have, they obviously don't see any of the pitchers still out there as an improvement over what they have. And if a guy like Woodruff or even Gallardo can become the next Nelson or Anderson, they'd be just fine. And I'll cheer hard for them regardless of what happens. This team is a playoff contender with or without Cobb. It's just a little better odds with him.

At this point, until a move is made, I'm pulling for Woodruff and Suter to round out the rotation. I don't even care if Miley and Guerra pitch better in Spring Training. This would be more a case of wanting a couple homegrown guys to have success at the ML level. If someone like Cobb or Arrieta is signed, though, something tells me Miley is inserted in the 5th spot. And Counsell will justify it by saying Cobb or Arrieta makes the rotation more competitive, and they wanted a veteran at the bottom to stabilize the rotation as a whole. Or some other ludicrous coach-speak like that.

I see your argument, and raise you Tommy Milone. Granted, there weren't as many candidates for a spot last year, but recent history does dictate that they have made odd rotation decisions.

Cobb is no longer in the team's plans. Wade Miley has seen to that. I am putting that in blue, and hoping that the color remains consistent.

This Trade Santana, and that would be my ideal roster. I have a sneaking suspicion that at least one of Guerra/Gallardo/Miley are going to make the opening day roster, though. I just hope it isn't at the expense of Woodruff.

I get that you were trying to get someone to be a little more realistic about his value. However, I think even the Rogers deal is aiming too high. That was a pretty embarrassing trade for the Pirates, not because of what they gave up, but because they gave it up for Jason Rogers, who by almost any measure was a slightly more accomplished minor league player and much better on defense than Aguilar. I think any team that wants really Aguilar knows they can just wait for him to be waived, unless they take him as a tertiary piece in a trade. He's a fit some places. KC to do some platooning with the newly signed Duda? But no not much in return if anything. They may end up having to DFA him like they did with Scooter and hope he doesn't come back to bite them. He's one of those guys that no team wants to trade for, but they will be falling all over themselves to throw in a waiver claim on him. You are right, a lot like the Gennett situation last year. My only hope would be that since he's a better fit as a 1B/DH in the American League, that the National League teams would pass him over. There aren't many NL teams that have a huge 1B need. The Rockies maybe?