monty57

In my opinion, this is the biggest concern for Attanasio. Once other opportunities for entertainment outweigh going to Brewer games, running the team like the Yankees won't work any longer. Brewer fans gave up on the Seligs and we had low-teens attendance for years. The new stadium and new owner sparked interest, and attendance has been good for a decade or so, but I think Attanasio is deathly afraid of seeing attendance drop, and has been making moves like last year's Lohse signing in order to keep attendance up. If too many people start to feel that taking a nice vacation or buying a PS3 or doing something else is a better use of their time and money than going to a game, the current strategy of the Brewers won't work. As to season tickets, I live too far away to buy too many tickets in advance so I've never been a season ticket holder, but this was the first year probably since I was four or five years old that I haven't gone to at least one game.

With Green/Gamel waived you have to believe that 3b is Ramirez' job next season and there is 0 possiblity of him being traded away. Unless....The team goes in to a rebuild turn of events by trading away ARam/Gomez/Gallardo/Lohse and commits to Juan Francisco/Yuni manning 3b next season. I think that's pretty spot on, and if they were going into rebuild mode, they would've kept Gamel and Green. I've figured the final year of Ramirez's was pretty much untradeable since the day he was signed, but the Brewers' decision to fill their farm with OF and pitchers has left them no choice but to hold on to Ramirez. My guess is that they'll try to save some money by trading Aoki for a minor leaguer and doing a salary dump trade of Weeks. They'll go with pre-arby guys for a lot of their bullpen and bench, as well as LF, SS, 2B and about half of the rotation. If they can find enough money from this, they'll probably re-sign Hart to a low-base, incentive-laden, one-year contract, and roll the dice that the old guys will stay healthy and productive while the young guys continue to outperform their expectations.

Barring a trade, a few things are probably "set in stone." Braun at 3 and Ramirez at 4 are two of those things. I think it's pretty likely that Hart will be brought back, and he will very likely be #5. The rest of the lineup will build around that. Since the lineup will change many times next year, I don't think it's really important to work out every spot, but having some "anchors" is nice. As to leadoff, there are several options, all of them with positives and negatives when it comes to leading off. I think Segura would be the best fit at leadoff to start the season. But, the important thing, and the main topic of discussion in this thread is whether it makes sense to move Braun to RF to allow Davis to play LF. I think that trading Aoki and moving Braun to RF would be a good idea. The positives of saving money and getting something of value in the Aoki trade while opening up a spot in the crowded OF for our promising young players outweigh the negative of not having a "traditional" leadoff hitter. Plus, if we don't trade Aoki, I doubt they'll move Braun to RF, and if Braun isn't in RF, then Davis will not see much playing time.

Gomez has eliminated some but not all of the question marks around him. He is probably the best trading chip we have right now, and could get a couple of very good prospects for him, but I think there is zero chance he is traded by the Brewers. Regardless, I think H&T is right that trading Aoki should not impact trading Gomez. I think we should trade Aoki because we could get some decent talent for him and could replace him with guys who will make less and have a good chance of performing as well or better than Aoki. Gomez would only be traded if (A) we were blown away with an offer, (B) we are in a bigger financial crunch than even I think and/or © Attanasio completely reverses everything he's done with the Brewers and decides it's now time to start a major rebuild. In that case, trading Gomez would have more of a correlation with trading Lohse, Ramirez and Gallardo than it would in trading Aoki. In my opinion, Aoki should be traded regardless of what goes on with those guys... assuming of course that we could get something of value for him.

It's one thing to make it a team "ideal" and "mantra" for the upcoming season. It's a complete different thing when you make it public knowledge. Yeah, I'm sure this type of thing is discussed often behind the scenes in baseball, but it's kind of dumb of Towers to go on public record saying they are going to purposely hit batters next year. That in itself would be just cause for umpires to eject Diamondback pitchers early and often.

We could put McGehee at 3B, Yuni at SS, Weeks at 2B and Francisco at 1B to see if we could have the worst ranging, worst hitting infield ever assembled.

I guess if the question were phrased "If you had to choose between McGehee and Betancourt, who would you choose?" I may put my vote in for McGehee, but I'd rather check the "none of the above" box.

"Saved" money is only valuable under the huge assumption that it's going to eventually be tangibly spent on the baseball team in some form. Beyond spending it this year (assuming Ramirez gets traded), there's no way to prove the money saved "enabled" us to make any future moves. Because of that, my outlook is and always has been spend it now because we have no way of knowing if it gets spent beyond what would have been done in the future. Really? Money doesn't have value? I think you're looking at things from the perspective of a fan. I look at things from the perspective of a business owner. I would argue strongly that money is valuable without some weird caveat that it needs to be spent in a specific fashion. As a business owner, I always like having excess cash in reserve, as you never know what the future holds. I will be a Brewer fan beyond next year, so I want the team to be run with a sustainable business model. Maybe they use that $20MM to pay down debt, moving forward the date at which there will no longer be a huge debt payment, giving the team more free cash in the future to spend on the team. Maybe they keep it stored away so that when they actually have a decent chance at the playoffs, they can take on a big salary mid-season. Maybe they use it to upgrade a facility that will either improve future cash flows or player development. Maybe they use it to bring on better scouting and development personnel. Maybe there are about a zillion things they can do if they have some cash to spend that they can't do when every spare cent goes to the MLB roster.

If you are not getting back something of value for Ramirez then I don't see the point in trading him. From a pure baseball talent standpoint sure, but the $20MM owed is a big factor, and moving players to save money when you are over-budget or when you don't feel you are a contender are done all the time. Not saying the Brewers will do this, but I don't think it's fair to say they'd trade him "for nothing." Money is "something of value," and we could save a lot of money by trading him for "nothing" if a team would take on most of his salary.

Why is this? The Brewers have a chance? The Cards and Pirates are still in the playoffs, and the Reds made it in. Will the Brewers in 2014 be anywhere close to them? I highly doubt it. The Brewers are more like the Cubs than they are the other 3 teams. Agreed Craig. I can see Homer's point if he's looking at it from the angle of money. The Brewers are over-budget so they need to spare $1MM anywhere they can, while the Cubs have plenty of money. However, I'd say that the Cubs will have a better record over the next five years than the Brewers, so I don't think the Brewers are in more of a position to throw away young-ish talent than the Cubs.

Green surprises me, as I thought he and Bianchi would be the backup IF next year. This may mean that there is a chance we'll have both Gennett and Weeks on the MLB roster (I know, it's early) or that Francisco will be back. I did think that Gamel had a good chance of being waived, as he's going into his first arby year and would likely cost $1MM or so. Money's going to be tight for the Brewers this season, and apparently they don't want to take the risk of spending that $1MM on Gamel. I wish the best for both of these guys, as I've followed them a long time, and had hopes in the past that they would both play big roles for the Brewers.

This is a leap of faith and also appears to be a case of "small market mentality" to the extreme. Gindl really hasn't proven anything and Aoki has been a solid contributor for 2 full years. Is the 1/3 the cost argument really relevant when we're talking about the $1.5M Aoki will get? That's nothing. What does the saved $1M prevent us from doing? At that minimal cost, it should be about winning games and not stockpiling peanuts. If $1,000,000 is so paltry, then I'd gladly accept $1,000,000 from anyone who wants to give it to me. It's easy to say "it's only $1,000,000, so who cares," but that's the attitude that leads to bad financial situations. The team is probably already overbudget for next season, so any cuts will be helpful, especially if there is any desire to add someone to fill a hole in the roster. If there was no one to replace him with, then I wouldn't think it would make sense to trade him, but we have five MLB-ready OF without Aoki. Braun and Gomez are no-brainers, and both Gindl and Davis (in limited reps) outplayed Aoki this year.

Yeah, Rickie's probably in the "trade for whatever you can get, even if you eat most of the salary" situation. There's probably more bad than good that can come from Rickie sitting the bench next year, plus there's really no reason to have two guys who can only play 2B on the roster. They'd be better served with something like Bianchi/Green, which would cover all the IF positions, Gindl/Schafer as backup OF and Maldonado.

This is exactly what I was hoping to hear for next year's outfield. I personally have no concerns about Braun playing RF, and I don't think he's going to gripe about it. Actually, if it helps the team and makes him appear to be more of a "team player," he'd probably be happy about it. Davis or a Davis/Gindl platoon in LF should be better than Aoki would provide and will cost 1/3 as much, and we should be able to get something of value for Aoki in trade.

I don't question that when the knee feels good, he should be able to hit, but if the knee were repaired, he wouldn't be sitting on the bench right now. He said that he doesn't even know when or how he "tweaked" it, just that it happened during the brawl. It will just as easily happen running the bases or fielding a grounder, or playing with his kids (does he have kids?) or doing yard work, or doing just about anything. I know plenty of people with bad knees, and it doesn't take much to "tweak" the knee and knock them off their feet for a while. I expect that unless he can get the knee fixed (and who knows, maybe it's not something that can be fixed), he will always be one "tweak" away from the DL, and at the very least will need plenty of days off. If he can get the knee fixed, that's great. I just think he should have done it a couple of months ago rather than waiting for the offseason, which means he could potentially miss the start of next season. This season was over a couple of months ago, so we knew that Ramirez missing games wouldn't hurt the playoff chances. We don't know what next season will bring, and maybe Ramirez missing the first month or so will be the difference maker. Just an opinion, but I'd think that best case is he starts 120 games next year, and worst case is he spends most of the year on the DL and retires once he stops getting paid. If you were a GM, would you give up anything to take on that liability?

From milwaukeebrewers.com: As expected, third baseman Aramis Ramirez was absent from the Brewers' starting lineup Thursday after re-injuring his balky left knee during Wednesday's scrum with the Braves. But Ramirez expressed more hope about playing in at least one more game this season. If there was any way to fix his knee through surgery, he should have had it done a couple of months ago. Bad knees don't generally get back to 100% through rest. They may feel better and let a player get on the field, but until they're fixed, they're going to keep going out. I'd guess Ramirez will either get it fixed as soon as the season is over, risking missing some of next year, or he will just hope resting it over the offseason will fix it, which will probably mean he'll be lucky if next season doesn't mirror this season. It would've been better for him to miss most of this season with surgery, and be back at 100% for all of next year. As to trading him, no GM in his right mind would trade for Ramirez with his injuries and salary.

With our salary commitments, Attanasio needs to keep the stadium full. Whether he is correct or not, Attanasio has stated that he believes fans want to see continuity... they like going to the park and recognizing the players. I think it's why he offers extensions to pretty much anyone who looks like they could be league average. He's a Yankee fan, and that's what brought them back and made them a dynasty again. Unfortunately, the Brewers aren't the Yankees, so we end up keeping the mid-tier guys around until they're well past their prime, while the superstars move to a team that can actually afford them. Hart in and of himself won't make a terribly expensive contract, but added to the commitments the Brewers already have, it makes for a $100MM payroll for a team unlikely to compete.

The problem with trading someone like Davis is that there are so many question marks surrounding him that you will not get enough back to merit the risk of trading away someone who could potentially be a decent MLB player. You are most likely either going to get a so-so veteran for one year (most likely a trade deadline deal like the Hairston deal), or someone in a similar situation (very little fanfare who is blocked or given up on by their organization). Do you risk giving up on someone who could be a 20-HR/year guy for that? It just makes so much more sense to trade Aoki, even for little return, than it does to trade Davis, Gindl or Schafer, that I can't believe trading one of the young guys is at all likely. Maybe as part of a bigger trade, but not in a stand-alone deal.

I wouldn't want to see even a Caleb Gindl, Scooter Gennett, or a Krush Davis traded for that kind of player. In my opinion, that's a good way to "take the Brewer goggles" off when looking at a trade. Since I wouldn't give up a decent, young MLB-ready player, I don't really expect one back. We could probably get another vet in a similar situation at a different position, but any MLB-ready young ("team controlled") player we'd get wouldn't be very good. Personally, I'd prefer a higher-upside guy in the low minors to a below-average veteran in his last year, or to a low-upside/MLB-ready guy. Either way, I'd like to see him traded, as I think Gindl/Davis make a better corner OF option, and Schafer is a better option to back up Gomez in CF. To me, that means big decision is whether or not to pick up the option. Is Melvin certain that we could we get enough in trade that he picks up the option, or do we pick up the option and then get "stuck" with Aoki in 2014 when we probably have better, cheaper alternatives?

Reilly, thanks for summing up the payroll. I doubt they'll have 14 pre-arby guys on the roster making league minimum, so even though getting rid of Axford helped the 2014 payroll, I still don't see how they'll be under a mid-$90MM's payroll next year. More likely, they'll be pushing $100MM. Since Weeks and Ramirez have zero trade value, Lohse couldn't bring back "the equivalent of the first rounder they gave up" mid-season this year, and no one wanted Gallardo, it would appear that Milwaukee is pretty much stuck with the payroll to which they've obligated themselves, which is why I think Attanasio has been steering the team based on what will sell tickets. From Attanasio's perspective, a significant drop in revenue (ticket sales and the revenue attached to it like parking and concessions) mixed with high fixed costs would lead to a huge monetary loss. Hart is a guy the Brewer fans know, so I could see Attanasio re-signing him even if it's not the best "baseball move," or even if it's not in the best long-term interest of the franchise, because it will help sell tickets. It's a risk, but one Attanasio seems willing to take, as it's the same concept as signing Lohse this past offseason. The "bright side" is that a lot of salary falls off the books after 2014, which is why for a couple of years now I've targeted 2015 as the year they should have been building toward. Signing Hart won't help with this, as his playing everyday at 1B would preclude someone else from playing there and seeing how they performed. So, I don't think signing Hart is the best move for them, but I think there's a good chance that it will happen, and I think the reason is not to win games, but to sell tickets/generate revenue.

I'm not convinced just yet that Davis > Gindl and the Brewers could use that LH power bat in there somewhere if they re-sign Hart or another RH bat to play 1B. and I like him, but even if Braun moves to RF it creates a very RH-heavy lineup. Davis is RH and Gindl is LH. That makes it a pretty easy platoon situation with Gindl getting (hopefully only) a little bit of PT in RF when Braun needs a day off or takes his normal week off per year with an oblique injury. To me, Aoki seems like the best trade candidate. He has more of a proven track record, and he's still fairly inexpensive, so he would bring back some value in trade, but he's three times more expensive than our alternatives who could probably put up similar numbers, so it doesn't make sense for us to trade the young, cheap, "team controlled" guys in favor of the older, more expensive guy who will leave at the end of the season.

I'd much rather trade Aoki, who probably has more trade value, and keep Davis. Braun in RF, Davis in LF, Gomez in CF with Schafer backing up CF and Gindl backing up the corners. Not a bad OF, and three of them are playing for league minimum.

All this, and yet we're still on pace to win 69 games this year. The money spent and yet-to-be-spent on Lohse will get us a few extra meaningless wins that may hurt us more in the future than they help us if they knock us down the draft board. Right now, we're on pace for the fifth pick, while the Angels are on pace to get the 15th pick with around 77 wins. Additionally, teams that finish at the bottom get a big benefit in draft pool money and international signing money. I'd take the draft pick we lost in 2013 and the better draft pick in 2014 over the few extra wins this season, and a $22MM liability over the next two seasons as Lohse likely faces significant age-based regression. At some point, management may realize that we don't have the talent to compete at the MLB level, and we don't have a good enough farm system or a big enough checkbook to make us a good MLB team in the near future. It would've been nice if they had realized this when they had some trading chips to make a quick turnaround possible, but that ship has sailed. Now we're faced with a long, uphill grind where we wait for bad contracts to fall off the books and we see which of our so-so prospects become serviceable MLB players. Starting 2015, we should have some free cash to make some moves (as long as we don't do something stupid like another Lohse-type signing this offseason) and the Top 10 draft picks we should get over the next few seasons should help us re-stock the farm with good - as opposed to "could make the MLB in some capacity" - talent. That said, as I mentioned earlier, it would not surprise me at all to see Attanasio tell Melvin to sign someone like Feldman to a 3 year/$33MM deal. It wouldn't make the Brewers winners in 2014 and it would make the long-uphill grind a little longer, but it may sell some tickets in 2014 and that in itself may supercede whether or not it's a good "baseball move."

I don't think the Brewers have the money to add another arm, and are probably best off not adding one in any case. That said, Scott Feldman just looks like a guy to whom Milwaukee would offer a 3 year / $33MM deal.

When I saw this thread title, I thought it was saying that the 2013 Brewers were the worst lineup in team history, and I thought it couldn't be that bad. So, I looked: As a team, the Brewers have a .711 OPS, which puts them in line with the .711 OPS posted in the 106-loss 2002 season, slightly ahead of the .708 OPS in 2004, but ahead of all but two of the teams from 1984 through 1993 (including a .705 OPS for the near-playoff 1992 team) as well as most of the 1970's teams. As far as runs scored, the 2013 Brewers are on pace for around 640 runs. We had some bad run scoring years at the onset of the franchise, but this year is on pace to be the 3rd worst run-scoring year since 1978 (not including shortened seasons). Again, we're right there with 2002 (627 runs) and 2004 (634 runs).