monty57

Games player - 128 - 7th most (you can argue his durability is a negative, but that's not the point) You know if one of our good players got drilled in the finger they'd miss a month, but not Yuni, he'll somehow continue to play. Of course the sore finger will probably hurt his ability to throw accurately, which seems to be one of the few things he does well.

I really would not worry about this. Doug Melvin may give Roenicke a lot of leeway with how he uses his roster, but this is just not going to happen. I know, but I'm sure Melvin will pick up some late-30's vet "for the bench" and Roenicke will give him far too much time playing in front of younger, more able guys. Heck, he didn't want Hart to be an everyday guy until Hart went on a tear, and there was no way he could've justified not starting him. Gamel has no history to fall back on (because minor leagues aren't really baseball), so he'll find plenty of bench time unless he gets off to a really hot start.

If you're dumb enough to wrap your entire hand around the barrel of the bat, you shouldn't be rewarded for it. I guess "you don't bunt your way off the island" should be right up there with "you don't walk your way off the island." That was one of the worst attempts at a sac bunt I've seen.

The argument for Yuni and Casey has been "they're hot," but apparently that same arguement doesn't hold true for Green, who's "hot streak" has been the entire season vs. Yuni's hot streak of a month or so, and Casey's hot streak of one game. It really seems like Roenicke will always choose someone with MLB experience over someone who doesn't have MLB experience. Now when Green finally gets an opportunity, he will have sat the bench for a week or so, limiting his chance of success, and when he doesn't do well, it will be more "proof" for Roenicke as to why guys like Gamel and Green should not get any PAs over guys like Wilson, Counsell and Kotsay. Set up guys for failure, and when they fail, blame their lack of experience. I fully expect that if Kotsay and McGehee are on next year's roster along with Gamel and Green, Kotsay will be our everyday starting 1B, McGehee will be our everyday starting 3B and Gamel & Green will fight with the backup SS and #5 OF for a handful of pinch hit ABs each week. I've grown to accept most of what Roenicke does, but while a lack of faith in young players may work with this year's team, it will not work long-term for a team with the Brewers' payroll.

If I understand correctly, as things stand now, the Brewers could choose 25 players for post season from a group of 27. The 27 includes the 12 pitchers and 15 position players Weeks, Gomez plus the current roster, this gives them the flexibility to go with 11 or 12 pitchers in the NLDS and, as you indicated, if they go with 11 they would be able to make a change to the 11 for the NLCS or WS. If they go to 11 pitchers, what is the benefit? They are surely not going to go with fewer that 10 pitchers in the post-season, so what advantage is there to adding an additional position player to the post-season eligible list? I know there's a rule where a position player can only be substituted for a position player, and a pitcher for a pitcher. Does this rule go from the Sept 1 roster, or the initial playoff roster? If it is from the initial playoff roster, than what you say could be what they're doing. I would still like to see Gamel available, and since Wilson/Counsell are bad & redundant, it would be easy to bring up Gamel and let one of Wilson / Counsell go.

In response to the "he's needed in CF/2B," would we be better off right now if we had held on to Brett Carroll as the RH CF and dropped Wilson or Counsell? Then Hairston could be splitting time between 2B/SS instead of 2B/CF. Or he could just be the everyday 2B, keeping Counsell/Wilson out of the starting lineup. Either way, I'm sure glad Gomez should be back in a couple of days, and I am interested in seeing what Roenicke will do with Hairston when both Gomez & Weeks are healthy.

If St Louis was not going to trade him to Milwaukee if they claimed him (in hopes of possibly catching the Brewers), then why on earth would they trade him to Atlanta? They have a better shot at catching Atlanta for the Wildcard then they do of catching Milwaukee for the Central. Isn't there 24 hours to put in a claim? If so, basically you can see if the player is playing to gauge his health before putting a claim in. Plus with today's media, it would be a pretty big deal for an injury not to leak. But I believe the claim is irrevocable and there is a time frame for the teams to "work a deal" before the Cards would have to pull him off waivers. Therefore, they would get an "injury window." Maybe it's not a lot of risk, but it is a risk. All-in-all, these two statements probably sum it up best for me: I think team were smart enough to not waste their time on Berkman. STl would have asked for an outrageous return for only about 6 weeks of Berkman. Teams probably just decided to not waste their time. I really don't see what the big deal is here. Sure we could have blocked him from Philly; but every GM in the NL probably knew there was about a 1% chance of him leaving STL and didn't bother even trying. and don't have any kind of link, but i vaguely remember DM putting almost everyone on waivers, including Fielder, even though he obviously had no intention of trading them. if i remember right (and i don't), DM said there was some administrative/paperwork processes that were eased a little by putting a player into waivers than not. From what I've heard over the years, most players get put on waivers and most don't get claimed. In years past, there was a "gentleman's agreement" not to block trades by placing claims, but I don't think that's "in place" anymore. Teams do place claims to block trades from happening, but they are taking a risk that they'll get stuck with a player they don't want/need.

Green is nowhere near as accomplished of prospect as Fielder, Weeks, or Braun. Those guys were top prospects. Green is solid but Hardy is probably a better example. Escobar got the job in part because we was a good prospect and in part because Hardy was starting to cost more money. These scenarios are far different than Taylor Green and Casey. I dont think any of those were in the midst of a playoff race either. Hardy might be the closest comparison and he really struggled when first brought up. In saying all that I hope Green gets a start soon. I understand that, but some are arguing that minor league stats don't matter. We knew that Fielder, Weeks and Braun were good because of what they had done in the minor leagues (and college for some). We dumped "proven" players to make way for "unproven" ones. By the logic of some, we didn't really know if Fielder, Braun, Hardy or Weeks were any good until they "proved themselves" in the majors. Maybe there's something about Green that I don't know, but he certainly appears to be a talented young player. In the past, Melvin has looked to replace weak spots with stronger ones. Braun & Weeks weren't ready defensively when they were promoted to replace underperforming veterans. Hardy hadn't even played the season before and there were a lor of question marks surrounding him. Green isn't a savior, but he's a good option at a position that could use a boost. My biggest worry, however, is that we are going to start being run in a different manner than what got us here. We do not have the financial resources to continue to bring in million-dollar veteran players for roles where we could play league-minimum rookies, and we can't always trade prospects for veterans. I'm certainly glad we traded for Marcum & Greinke (and have always said so), but these salaries were only absorbable because we have a core made up of guys we grew on the farm. Now that these guys are going to become expensive, we will need to bring up more guys from the farm just to be able to hold on to some of the guys we currently have. What we've done the last couple of seasons is unsustainable long-term. We need guys like Green and Gamel to play significant roles on the MLB roster. I'm certainly not panicked, but the unwillingness to bring up Green to get some of McGehee's PAs, trading for Lopez and Hairston instead of using guys from the minors, and continuing to hold onto Counsell and Wilson because of their "veteran presence" could portend a bad trend for the future. Is this year an isolated event as Melvin thinks we're going all the way, or has he changed his methodolgy?

Citing Green's Minor League Player of the Year is an odd way to justify Green earning PT over McGehee. That was 4 years ago in A ball, and he's undergone a bad wrist injury that lowered his production for all of '09 & '10. Granted, he's come back mashing. Do you remember the player who was a 2-straight-year MVP of his league when the Brewers traded for him? However, that never got him a chance on a silver platter. The reason I mentioned the MLPotY is that he's not the out-of-nowhere flash in the pan some may think he is. Green was a highly regarded prospect who sustained a wrist injury. He's now fully healthy and once again playing like a highly regarded prospect. I don't think he should get anything handed to him on a silver platter. For months now, I've been a proponent of bringing Green up to get some starts at 3B/2B and be a good bat off the bench. Some sort of soft platoon would probably have helped our team the last few months, and would probably help our team going forward.

At one point, Melvin dumped a productive Overbay because of an unproven prospect at 1B. He traded Junior Spivey because of an unproven prospect at 2B. He gave an unproven prospect, who missed most of his AAA season with a major injury, the starting SS position. He later traded that proven SS and gave the job to an unproven prospect. He brought up an unproven 3B mid-season to start over the two proven veteran players who had been sharing 3B but underperforming. For some reason, Melvin seems to have done a 180 on his previous moves. We built this team by allowing good prospects to replace underperforming or less talented veteran players. Now we seem to want to suppress talented minor leaguers with less talented, underperforming veteran players. I understand we're shooting for the playoffs, but talent is talent, and as we have done in the past, we should try to maximize the talent on our major league roster. Melvin knows better than to base a player's worth on a handful of PAs, but I'm not sure Roenicke does, so how much influence does Roenicke have over Melvin?

With Green, there's no evidence either way that he's going to be a bust or he's going to be starter-worthy. All that you can do is start him a few times and get him pinch hit at bats and see how he does...If Taylor Green starts and proves he's a great hitter, wonderful. What Green (or anyone) does in a few at bats proves nothing. If a player with no power hits a HR in his first MLB AB, it doesn't prove he's a power hitter, and if a player is a good hitter, he won't suddenly turn into a bad hitter because he goes 0-fer-his-first-game. Unfortunately, what I see happening is Green sitting for a week or so while Counsell and Wilson get pinch hit opportunities and starts at 2B/3B. Then, Green will be thrown out there for a pinch hit. If he gets a couple hits in his first handful of PAs, Roenicke will give him a start, and if he doesn't, he'll continue to ride the pine. In Roenicke's eyes, Green and Gamel's careers will come down to how they play in a hadful of opportunities. Hopefully, Melvin will not give Roenicke any toys to start in front of Gamel next year, because the Brewers certainly do not have the payroll to build a team without significant contributions from their farm.

If Green outplays McGehee and earns the starting spot, that's great. But I don't see any way they just name him the starter without him having to go out & earn it. I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this, but how exactly is Taylor Green supposed to "go out and earn it" if he's been a Minor League Player of the Year and is currently posting All-Star caliber AAA numbers but cannot take a start away from McGehee at the MLB level even though McGehee is having a terrible year? By the logic that only MLB numbers matter, then Green cannot "outplay McGehee" unless he gets starts at the MLB level, which again using this logic, he can't do because he hasn't earned them. I would say that Green has earned some MLB playing time, and McGehee has earned some bench time. I've never been a proponent of dumping McGehee, but a soft platoon started a few months ago would probably have made us a better team, and starting one now would probably make us a better team going forward. I'm glad he finally got the call up, and hope Roenicke doesn't sit him as the last player on the bench because he "hasn't earned anything.'

For two full years plus over half of this year, he's been fine. McGehee by month (avg/OBP/SLG/OPS): April - .280/.343/.409/.752 May - .218/.275/.318/.593 June - .177/.214/.208/.422 July - .253/.306/.360/.666 August - .289/.348/.518/.866 Season - .241/.294/.356/.650 If you take his one 3HR game from August 3 out, his August becomes .265/.330/.392/.722 I'd say he had a so-so April, horrible May-June, and so-so August with one really good game. I am glad it came against St. Louis. After this season, I doubt they'd get much for him in trade, but I also doubt he gets a big payday in arby. Therefore, I believe his biggest value to the team in 2012 will be on the Brewers roster. Since we'll have two young LH corner IF, I think there will be plenty of playing time for all three of them at 1B/3B.

Good idea Roenicke, why put yourself in a position where you may have that extra guy who could help you win a game? I sure like watching Counsell and Wilson trot up there late in the game to pinch hit. It'd be terrible to have a good hitter available. From Roenicke's quote, we'll bring up Maldonado and Farris.

I rather have Gamel, Green, Gindl...anyone else continue to get all their ABs instead of sitting on the bench in Milwaukee for a week. I'd argue that we could find plenty of PT for Green, but I agree with you that it won't happen. I just hope that one or both of Gamel & Green are up prior to Sept 1. I doubt Gindl has much chance of making the playoff roster, so I expect to see him after the AAA season.

They are old so I am not sure how much longer they can remain effective. So I guess I am not sure we will want to resign them and if we do we may not want to offer enough to keep them. Just a guess, but I think Hawkins will look for a multi-year deal, which I hope the Brewers don't offer. If Saito would come back on another 1 yr / $1.5MM deal, I'd jump all over that. Basically, I'd like to have either or both back on one-year deals, and I think that's more likely with Saito.

Because Green is a rookie, and therefore absolutely has no chance of success. This is proven by Gamel's handful of PAs this season. Honestly, I'd guess they're waiting to see when Gomez & Weeks will return. Gomez seems intent on being back soon, and Rickie was on a pre-game saying he's running with no pain right now, and hoping the training staff gives him the go-ahead soon. I'd also guess that since Dillard's last outing looked pretty good, while de la Cruz did not, the team may be scratching their heads as to what to do. We could send Dillard down without losing him, but we would potentially lose de la Cruz (whose mid-90's FB would look good in the 2012 pen) if we take him off the 25-man. I would love to see at least one of Gamel and Green on the roster by Aug 31, so they could be on the playoff roster, but I just can't believe it's going to happen with the way this season's played out. I certainly hope the confusing roster management doesn't cost us a playoff series.

If Prince walks, I think that you have to add another power bat to the lineup- the main question is, where? I think a SS who plays good defense and gets on base a lot would be a better target than a "slugging SS." It would change the face of the team, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. This season, Prince is once again getting on base at a tremendous clip, only to have McGehee & Yuni unable to produce behind him. Let's just say we made a big run at Reyes and got him. He's currently 100 OBP points and 230 OPS over what Yuni's given us this season. If we added him at the top of the order, we could put Weeks, Braun, Hart, Gamel, Morgan/Gomez, McGehee/Green, Lucroy in any order behind him, and it would amount to a lot of runs scored. To the RBI arguement above, our #3/4 hitter combo would be weaker next year, but it would have more RBI opportunities. Meanwhile, our 5/6/7/8 stretch would likely be stronger than this year's group. Reyes is 28 and is making $11MM this season. I don't know what it would take to get him, or if it's possible. He's at an age where he may be willing to sign a 4-year deal, which could make it doable for the Brewers. Regardless of whether or not Reyes is a possibility, our biggest area of improvement next year has to be SS or 3B. I doubt they add a 3B, as they will likely go with some combo of McGehee and Green, so an improvement at SS will be a big part of how our offense shapes up. With the way the lineup looks to stack up I'd prefer the OBP/top-of-the-order guy who will allow us to have Hart & Weeks in the 3 & 5 holes (in whatever order). If we can find that top-of-the-order SS, I think our offense will still be fine, and may be a little more consistant than this year.

I'm with 'ya reilly. Keep it simple. WTP, I also think it's important for Hart to stick around next year. He's a proven MLB hitter whom we should have no problem affording next year. I think it's a given that Gamel will start at 1B, and I think Green starting at 3B with McGehee getting starts at 1B/3B makes us better all around. But there is really no reason to trade Hart just to bring Gindl up. If Gindl were a can't miss prospect or if we needed the salary relief, then maybe I could see it, but we shouldn't do it just to do it.

PEM, the thing is, Wolf is only signed through next year, when Greinke and Marcum are already under contract. Extending them will not be effected by trading Wolf. Hart is under contract for two more years, so I agree he may need to be traded to extend Greinke & Marcum, but not necessarily until after next year. The only reason we would need to trade Wolf or Hart this offseason for financial concerns would be if we were to re-sign Prince or sign a high-priced player at another position (like SS). Unless one of these occur, I would not trade Hart this offseason unless we get a really good return & we are fairly certain that someone like Gindl or Schafer are ready to take over. There is a good chance that we will already be going with two young bats in Gamel & Green, so I'd probably rather see Hart get one more year in Milwaukee before we trade him away next offseason. By then, it seems that at least one of our minor league OFs should be pounding on the door ready to play for the Brewers, and Gamel & Green should have a lot of MLB PAs under their belt. Melvin can make this work financially, but as you noted we don't have a lot of pre-arby players hanging around allowing us to add many more big contracts. We will need guys like Green, Gamel, Gindl (the killer G's?), Peralta, Thornberg, etc to step in over the next few years. If they don't, we will probably need to start trading some good MLB players with big contracts for prospects. As the Weeks, Braun, Yo, etc contracts start to get bigger, we won't be able to pay million dollar contracts for our role players, relievers and bench players.

McGehee- Lots of talk about trading him, but they will probably better off keeping him. What would you really get? The time to trade him would have been after last season, as some here suggested. I have to agree here. He really would be a good complement to Gamel & Green for the Brewers next year, and shouldn't cost too much. My only worry is whether or not Roenicke would allow him to be the small end of a platoon when both LHers are essentially rookies. Wolf- I agree this off-season would be a good time to "sell high." As with any trade, you just have to get fair value in return. For the right deal, I'd consider trading Wolf, but I really like the idea of having a good MLB rotation with a good "insurance" replacement at AAA. I think we've gotten kind of lucky with how good Estrada has been when filling in this season and with how few injuries we've had to our starting pitchers. While I'm happy to have had this luck, I wouldn't count on it for next year. I'd let Peralta play in AAA, pitching for the Brewers when injury dictates. If we weren't in a realistic playoff hunt, I'd be all over trading Wolf before he leaves as a FA, but since we'll go into next season with a good roster, I'd keep him. Plus, he does have an option year. If we aren't able to extend Greinke and Marcum, we may need to exercise Wolf's option simply to avoid utter collapse by losing 60% of our pitching staff in one season. Really, the best thing I think Melvin can do this offseason is find a good SS and tell Roenicke to get used to the idea of two young players getting significant time at 1B/3B. Oh, and extend Greinke and Marcum.

I'm curious as to what you guys think our record would be in 2012 if we merely have a repeat of 2011 minus Fielder and an obvious FA departure in K-Rod. In this scenario, all 2011 MLB rosters transfer to 2012 because it is impossible to predict trades and FA. Assuming we receive equivalent production from our position players (minus subbing Gamel for Prince), our rotation gave us similar prodcution and our bullpen was the same (minus K-Rod), are the 2012 Brewers a 90 win team, an 85 win team or a sub .500 team? What should are expectations be in 2012 in that scenario? If we lose Prince for Gamel and we lose K-Rod for ???, and we are not upgrading any positions (i.e. shortstop), then naturally we should be worse than this year. From your post, I'm guessing we still get Hawkins/Saito (or equivalents) in the pen. Our pitching is good enough that we'd probably still have a shot at the Central, if Gamel could produce decent numbers, Green/McGehee improve on McGehee's 2010 numbers and we don't have injuries. Therefore, if we could give ourselves a boost by upgrading SS in 2012, I think we should be in the playoff hunt. Someone at the SS position who plays good defense will make our pitching even better (which is scary), and if we could find one who can play defense and get on base, we could have ourselves a more balanced offense, and one that certainly could be good enough to put up enough runs for our pitching staff. Prince is a great offensive player, and I don't want to downplay what he's meant to this team. However, Gamel should put up decent numbers and will be our "property" for five seasons for around 2% the price of Fielder. The tailor-made time to let a great player go is when you have a young player to replace him and you don't have players to replace other positions. We don't have anyone to replace Greinke or Marcum at anywhere near the level Gamel should replace Fielder, so in my opinion, they're just more pressing. Losing Greinke, Marcum and Wolf in the same offseason is something that the Brewers will have no chance of recovering from.

My problem would simply be years like 2015, where you will have Weeks ($11.5) and Braun ($12) with Axford and Lucroy in 2nd year arby, so say another $10MM there. If we add even a "discount" $20MM for Prince, that's $53.5MM in five players. Yo's option would be for $13MM, so if we'd want him back, that's $66.5MM for six players. Even if we have a $100MM payroll, that leaves $33.5MM for 19 players. In that scenario, we can't simply "flip prospects for SPs," as we wouldn't have the salary room to add two top of the rotation guys' contracts, or any "proven" players for that matter. You're looking at an average of around $1.7MM for the remaining 19 guys, and that's if we have a $100MM salary. Flipping your prospects for a Greinke-type contract would leave around $20MM for 18 guys, and you wouldn't have any prospects to fill those 18 holes. League minimum goes up every year, so even pre-arby guys will be over $500k by then, making it even tougher to field a team where much of the salary is eaten up in a handful of players. In reality, signing Prince to an extension would probably mean we'd have to do the opposite of what Dierkes is saying. We would need to trade vets like Weeks and Yo before they become FAs for MLB ready, pre-arby guys. And, we would have to be dead on in all of our drafts, and show willingness to start rookies in pressure situations. Or, we would simply extend "going all in" through maybe 2014 (if we indeed "flip prospects for SP" when Greinke, Marcum and Wolf leave) and then completely overhaul the team like the Florida Marlins have done when they've won World Series. I will add the disclaimer that I don't think Prince will sign a 4- or 5-year deal. If he'd do that, then I'd be more able to believe the Brewers could afford him. I think he'll demand an 8-to 10-year deal, which would seriously hamper the Brewers. That is the main reason I think it's more likely to extend Greinke and Marcum than it is to sign Fielder... they'd be gone, so we'd avoid the salary crunch described above and have flexibilty to continue to operate effectively.

I'm also intrigued what they do with Scarpetta, I don't believe he is ready for the majors but I don't know if they can get much for him in a trade either but he is out of options. Others here know more than I about this subject, but I believe the Brewers are trying to get the MLB to grant an additional option year for Scarpetta. If they don't get it, then who knows what happens. Probably he either gets a bullpen role which he's probably not ready for, or they let him become a FA. He's from Rockford, IL. Even if he goes FA, I doubt anyone would sign him to a MLB deal, so there's a chance that he would sign his minor league FA deal with the Brewers for the chance to stay close to home. Of course, some bottom-of-the-barrel team may sign him to a MLB deal and let him sink or swim if they think the potential upside outweighs the hammerings he'd take. I'm not sure a trade would be necessary. They could do the job. Weaver's a Boras client, and he signed a good deal for all around. If Prince stays, what's to say he doesn't sign a deal that lets the Brewers keep Grenike and Marcum? I doubt Fielder would take a home-town discount, and even if he does, I don't think there will be any way to afford Fielder and extensions for Greinke and Marcum. If the TV deal's as good as some say, maybe, just maybe we could squeeze in Fielder and one of the two (probably Marcum), but not all three. Braun, Yo and Weeks will all start to get expensive and we do need to field a 25-man roster without having a really strong minor league system.

I fully assume Melvin will do something that will completely shock everyone, but that said, I expect most of the team to remain intact for another playoff run in 2012. I'd give Gamel 1B and Green 3B with McGehee getting plenty of starts backing up both positions. I doubt McGehee could return a lot in trade, so we're probably better off using his RH bat to supplement the two lefties in Gamel & Green. I'd probably use Gindl as the backup corner OF, but we'll probably bring in some random 38-year-old who most of us won't realize was still in baseball. Gindl seems to be the current heir-apparent to Hart in RF and does make trading Hart a real possibility. I'd guess we'll start with Hart in RF in 2012, as we probably won't add another rookie (along with Gamel & Green) in a year that we should be making a playoff push. To me, unless we need the money to sign Fielder, trading Hart after next year makes more sense. I really think the Brewers are going to make a push for a top-tier SS for 2012. Whether that means making a run at someone like Reyes or making a trade, I think this is where our "offseason surprise" will come, as it's really the #1 spot we could upgrade to try to offset the loss of Fielder. I'm not familiar with the Mets' system, but if the Mets have an up-and-comer in Tejada, why would they trade him in favor of Reyes? They're hurting for money and not likely to make any realistic playoff push for a while, so why not play the young guy and let Reyes go? In the 'pen, I'd offer Saito and Hawkins one-year deals, and hopefully they'll both return. If not, I'm sure we'll bring in at least one "name" pitcher to work a setup role. Hopefully, guys like Kintzler and Braddock will be able to play significant roles next year, but this year is showing that it's really nice to have some good, reliable arms ahead of Axford. Rogers in the 'pen is another intriguing idea, as I believe we'd lose him if something isn't worked out. I too believe we'll make a big push at extending both Greinke and Marcum (although that would be more for the "Starting lineup for 2013 & beyond" thread). If the Brewers feel that Peralta is ready, I could see a possibility of trading Wolf (one year left plus option) or Narveson, but I'd certainly demand a high price tag after the seasons they're having (and Narveson's still cheap with a lot of control). That could really backfire on them if Peralta falters, and it's the opposite of what Melvin's been doing lately, so my guess would be that we go into 2012 with our current rotation with Peralta in AAA. Then, when an injury occurs, we will be able to bring up a really talented pitcher. Estrada has done admirably this season, and will probably be in the 'pen next year, but it would be nice to have someone like Peralta as our "AAA insurance."