monty57

Just going from memory her but: - If we wanted Cruz back, I believe he was placed on waivers by Texas a year or two after the trade and no GM in the entire league picked him up. The following season he broke out. - Capuano had a decent tenure here, regardless of the fact he had already had TJ suregery. A good percentage of MLB pitchers have had TJ surgery - JDLR had already been traded that same offseason from the Red Sox to Arizona, and Arizona did not want to give him up. Melvin insisted on his being part of the trade. He was a pretty highly rated prospect. He was dealt for Graffanino when we were in a playoff hunt. We had nowhere to hide JDLR on the roster and needed Graffy due to injury - We didn't trade Lee to Houston, we traded him to Texas, who were unable to retain his services after the season, when he signed with Houston for a ridiculous contract which is a big reason Houston is unable to compete and has players such as Roy Oswalt asking to be traded. Everyone knew we had to trade him, so picking up a very solid reliever for 1.5 seasons wasn't a bad return. -Please list the 20 "decent young pitchers or pitching prospects" who have been traded since the Lee trade. I know there have been some, but I'd be pretty impressed if you could list 20 off the top of your head. I really like the state of pitching in the lower levels of the minors, but we've been here before as an organization in the summer of 2003, we had studs from Huntsville all the way down to Helena. 2 years later Jones and Parra were hurt, Hendrickson was ineffective, Wilhelmsen was out of baseball, Eveland was struggling, Sarfate couldn't throw strikes... our pitching depth seemed to evaporate overnight. Doesn't this kind of show just how unlucky we've been in the pitching front. Sure there are some things we could/should have done in the FA & trade markets in the past that would make us a better team today, but if 1 or 2 of these players had lived up to his potential, our pitching situation would be vastly different today and we would not have had to pick up aging free agents to fill in the rotation.

I admittedly know nothing about being a pitching coach. I really hope Peterson can turn around what has been a horrific system for drafting pitchers and getting them to become successful MLB pitchers. It just seems odd that if someone is a very good pitcher that you would want to change it. It's sort of like a hitting coach telling Jeff Bagwell to stop hitting from his goofy crouch. You don't coach someone to do it, but you don't change a (potential) future Hall of Famer who is doing it. Pure speculation, but since Hoffman is "on the sidelines working with Peterson," I think there's a good chance that Peterson changed something in Hoffman's delivery before the season which is screwing him up, and now they're trying to fix it.

owner Mark Attanasio reportedly wants to change managers and give the job to bench coach and former Mets manager Willie Randolph. While I'm sure it's been swirling through his mind, if the team owner wants a manager fired, that manager is fired, regardless of what the GM told a newspaper. That said, when a team goes into a season with hopes of fighting for a playoff spot and they are one of the five worst teams in baseball 1/4 of the way into the season, the manager has to start thinking his job's on the line. I share the worries of some previous posters, that Randolph will get the job, the team will play respectable baseball the rest of the season, and Randolph will then be guaranteed the job next season instead of looking for the best available candidate.

If that is the case, it makes me very concerned about Peterson. Vargas was terrific for us last year. Why not leave well enough alone? Peterson doesn't leave anyone alone. He tried to change Johan Santana's delivery, which is why he isn't the pitching coach of the Mets anymore. Some of his former pitchers (like Mulder) love him and some hate him. Personally, I'd rather he only mess with the mechanics of pitchers who aren't doing their job, and I think he could definitely be part of the reason some of our pitchers aren't pitching as well. But, the Brewers knew what they were getting when he was hired, and I think it's a system-wide change, so hopefully his methods pay off in the future. He doesn't have anything to do with our team defense, which is our pitchers' main problem, so I guess I won't be too down on him :-)

Since Zaun is injured and unable to play, then yes, I can say with a pretty high degree of certainty that we are better with Lucroy than Zaun right now. When Zaun is healthy, I agree that we will be better off sending Lucroy back to AAA for more "seasoning." It will probably be good for Lucroy to get a taste of MLB now. Then, when he's ready (later this season or next year), he won't be quite as starstruck.

Either one could DH this weekend, so it's not like Lucroy would sit and rot on the bench for a week. While it is true that one could DH, I believe that if a DH is moved to a position spot mid-game you lose the DH for the rest of the game, so you might not want to use your backup catcher as DH unless it's something like a rest day for Mauer. Not certain... been a long time since I've paid a lot of attention to the AL. I'd guess Kottaras will get most of the PT, but Lucroy will get 4-5 starts over the 15 days. It will be the traditional "call the young guy up to get a look at the majors and get some PAs." As long as Zaun is back in 15 days, Lucroy will go back to AAA, and Zaun will be able to be traded at the deadline, when Lucroy will come up to stay. If Zaun is not able to come back after 15 days, and it's going to be a long-term injury, then I'd guess Lucroy/Kottaras will be much more of a 50/50 split.

Good to see they're finally taking talent over age and cost. In addition to these moves (Stetter, Axford and now Braddock) actually making our bullpen better, they also give us some flexibility. If the bullpen gets overused, we now will have four players with options so that we could bring up a fresh arm for a while, instead of being contractually stuck with trotting the same arms out there. Axford has been refreshing. It's wonderful to see someone out there with a real fastball. After facing the rest of our staff, his 97 MPH heater had to look about 120. I really hope he is not the one sent back down. He's 27, so servcie time cannot be much of an issue for him. Like many others, I hope either Vargas or Suppan is sacrificed, as they are the weakest links at this point, although I could see Estrada being sent back down to continue starting in case he's needed in that role later in the year.

Amazing how players age different these days than they did in the steroid era :-)

I've been thinking about this a lot lately as well, and I think endaround has hit the nail on the head. Melvin brings in pitchers who suddenly turn terrible. Why is that? I think it's the team's belief in drafting / bringing up players who are known for their bat and not their glove. Throw in moving players all around the field to positions they've never played, and suddenly I can understand why we consistantly have bad pitching. We either need high strikeout pitchers or a better defense. That said, Parra's big issue last year seemed to be a lack of belief in some of his pitches, which I hope he has overcome. With his stuff, he could be a true #1 starter, but we won't know until we see him start. Go get 'em Manny!

They need a reliever who can get outs While I agree with this, I'd say they need pitchers whose arms aren't about to fall off from overuse due to the fact our starting pitchers have a hard time making it through five innings in less than 100 pitches. Part of this {Estrada} is that he's on the 40-man. Part is probably that they need someone who can go multiple innings, even though Macha refuses to pitch relievers more than two innings, even when he has two starters in the 'pen. Part is probably also that they don't want to bring up top prospects both because they may not be ready, and they don't want to waste service time and an option to have them ride the pine. Finally, part is that Estrada has pitched very well in AAA, and hopefully will continue to have a "hot hand" with the Brewers.

I'd be really happy to eat crow if Hart has actually made the adjustment and can be a good hitter again. Personally, I'd use a hot year hitting mostly against lefties as a springboard to trade him. GM's were apparently looking to trade for him not too long ago, so an .800+OPS line with a year of control could give him some trade value.

I remember Macha making a comment this spring when Estrada was sent down to the effect that he liked him as a player, so I'd guess he'll definitely get a shot, and won't be wasting away on the bench. The 'pen obviously needs some fresh arms, and I long for the day we can get at least one pitcher on the staff who can occasionally pitch more than 5 or 6 innings to rest the relievers. To address the other pitchers brought up earlier: As far as Suppan, I wish he'd be used as the long man while he's here. This is being discussed in another thread, but he should be put in to pitch 4-5 innings at a time when we're way down/up to give the rest of the relievers the night off. There's no reason to bring Braddock up right now. There are other relievers who can help at the MLB level, and since Braddock projects to be a dominant closer in the future, we could be costing ourselves a year of a dominant closer by bringing him up too early this year.

When most of the staff has average to below average stuff they also have to rely heavily on defense which has been flat out pitiful as well. When you add up finesse staff plus below average defense at almost every position on the diamond you tend to have bad results. Is it really surprising to anyone that older finesse pitchers playing in front of a bad defensive club is a situation that was doomed to fail from the start. I think this is a very good point. Merge that with WarningTrackPower's mention that Melvin has brought in pitchers that have all performed worse after becoming Brewers than they did prior to becoming Brewers, and I think we have found our one common factor... Defense. The Brewers have really seemed to value big bat / poor glove guys, and this has to have a very negative effect on the pitching staff, both in number of runs scored and in the number of pitches thrown due to the extra base runners that should have been outs.

So, when did this thread turn into a discussion about the catching situation?? For the posters ahead of me, I'd guess it was when you incorrectly stated "If you include pitching, RF, CF and catcher in your mix, there's not talent all over the field!" We have a surplus of talent at catcher, both at the major league level and even moreso at AAA. So much so, in fact, that we may jettison Zaun, who is the best MLB catcher we've had for a while. We also have a lot of OF in the minors, and our OF this season has been pretty productive at the major league level even with the injuries we've suffered. That said, every team has holes, so when I said that we have talent "all over the field," I didn't mean that we had All-Stars at every position... nobody does. For me, the thread turned when you said that Melvin "...has stunted the grow of the franchise." I can't really grasp this, as I watched the Brewers from the mid-90's to the early 2000's, while our system got more and more devoid of talent. We now have a good franchise, from Rookie ball to the Major Leagues. How that possibly is stunting the grow[th] of the franchise is beyond me, so rather than respond to the post you directed at me, I thought I'd respond to the posts about the catching position.

Agreed. Plus, he's still under Brewer control for a few more years. This is a good year to give him a long leash to see if he can put it together. Right now, I'm all about playing for the future and Manny Parra could be a huge step forward if he can put things together. He is exactly the type guy many on this board are calling for Melvin to trade for. Cutting him if he doesn't show well in two or three starts would be a big mistake.

There have been no indications that the team has even started trade discussions with other clubs regarding Fielder and the blame for that is on Melvin and maybe even more Mark Attanassio. Maybe the blame should be on reporters for not wiretapping Melvin's phone. Really? You're laying blame because we haven't had "indications of discussions?" I think Fielder should be traded around late June/early July of this year (long before a normal trade would happen), but I really don't expect rumors to be flying around this early.

I'm with the group that says just use Suppan as your "normal" long reliever. We've had a lot of games we were getting shelled, and Macha still burned through multiple relievers, when Suppan could have been brought in to pitch 4-5 innings, giving the rest of the pen a night off to be rested when they are needed. If that's not the role Suppan's there for, then what is he doing on the team? We have two started in the pen, and Macha won't pitch either of them for more than two innings at a time.

I'm not worried about Zaun's bat, I'm worried about his arm. If I had to guess, Lucroy will be called up at some point and Zaun will either be traded or let go with Lucroy/Kottaras sharing starts. Of course, that may depend on Salome's situation and how we're looking in the standings, but I doubt we keep Zaun if it means hindering Lucroy / Salome by having them split time at AAA. That said, it is good to see production out of the catcher's spot in the lineup.

Someone should change the thread title. When this thread got brought back up I thought the Brewers were going after Dye now that Edmonds & Gomez are hurt :-) Good post Topper09er. As a full-time player with 80% of his PAs against righties, Hart's numbers would likely be right around where they've been the past few years. Much like Wes Helms, he has a place on a team when used correctly, but like Helms, we're paying too much for the RH part of a platoon. To Macha's credit, he has platooned Hart and it has played out fairly well so far. We'll see what happens with the injuries kicking in, as Macha really doesn't seem to like playing Gerut.

Really hope the best for him. From the link in the first post, a heart condition could definitely hurt an athlete's endurance, and could be the reason he's faded in the 4th/5th inning this year. Good to see the word "treatable." Best wishes Doug, get better.

Well, Parra could finally get his shot. Hopefully he can make the most of it. If Davis does have something that's been causing this bad start, I hope he can get it corrected... it would be nice if the Doug Davis of 2009 would show up.

I'd probably throw Parra into the rotation at some point. I'm one of those who rightly or wrongly view him as mentally soft, but you can't teach a 95 MPH fastball. We need to know if he can do it or not...only one way to find out. Out of desperation, I might be willing to roll the dice on his upside. I agree, and I'd rather have him get starts when the games aren't as important (if we're out of it later this season) than starting next year in the rotation after a full year in the pen this season. I hope Davis can start pitching well for many reasons, but if there aren't any injuries in the rotation and we're still plodding along like we have been so far this season, I'd trade whichever of Bush or Davis could bring back the most return and insert Manny. I'd trade both of them if the price is right and give someone from the minors some starts this year. If we are out of it July 1, I hear what everyone else says about trading or dumping this guy or that guy...my own target would be Corey Hart (for that price he is replaceable), but these guys have little value. If that changes, by all means DM should move a guy that won't be of value next year, but right now I just don't see it. I think much of the "value" we'd get by trading players like Hart or Zaun would be (1) the money saved and (2) the ability to bring up someone from the minors to get them some experience. If the season's a wash, I'd rather see us get little return for Zaun and allow Lucroy to get MLB experience rather than playing the season out with Zaun and getting nothing in return for him anyways. Some players like Bush, Davis and Hoffman (if Davis and Hoffman turn things around) could net some type of return, maybe a decent upside A-baller, who could potentially help us in a few years. I'm sure some team would like to have Counsell on their playoff roster as well.

Invader3k, that could be our demise. We're not a terrible team, and we'll win enough to stick around .500 this year. Since that will technically keep us "in the hunt," we'll sacrifice more of our future in a Lopez-style trade for a couple of extra meaningless wins this season rather than "selling" to help our future. Next offseason we'll see a bunch of articles stating that "everyone knows the Brewers have to trade Prince, so his value will be diminished" and we'll let players like Hoffman, Davis and Bush go without offering arby (or they won't be Type A/B FA) so we won't get anything in return for them.

Yeah, do you think we'll hear someone say "it's frustrating when one of our players is talking about getting a $200MM contract and meanwhile he's been hitting like a shortstop without the defense. It really makes it hard to focus on baseball when everyone knows that Prince is probably going to be traded soon because of his outrageous ego. To paraphrase Major League, he may think he's A-Rod, but he's playing like crap." I guess Prince felt that since he finally hit a HR last night, it justified him ripping the rest of the team. What he's saying is right... it's hard to win when you give up eight runs a night, but you shouldn't talk about how bad others are playing when you're not playing well yourself. I seem to remember a series in San Diego where they got shut out three out of four games.

While I had heard he wasn't liked in some clubhouses, I think he fit in well with the Brewers. In fact, he trains in the offseason with Weeks and I think others on the team.