monty57

I thought there were rules that a team (GM/owner/front office) couldn't talk about specific players that were still under contract by another team.

Of course we are all rooting against capitalism I don't see it that way. In capitalism, you have to have "creative destruction," meaning that the weak/outdated/poorly run businesses are destroyed and replaced by the strong/modernized/well run business. In baseball, the small market teams are not going to fold up if the big market teams get stronger. Every team is essential, in that a game requires two teams to play. Microsoft could, in theory, beat all of their competition to the point that they would all go out of business, and we would still have computer software... it would just all come from one provider. If the Yankees forced all of their competition out of business, they wouldn't get many fans watching them play intersquad games every day. In reality, MLB is the monopoly, and the teams are all part of the same business. If the business (MLB) were well run, it would choose the model that was most profitable and follow that path. If it is most profitable in its current form, we wouldn't see changes. If it would be more profitable with greater parity, then we would see changes. Unfortunately, the business (MLB) is run by it's department heads (the team owners), which is a flawed business model. Throw in the fact that the players can collude to form a union with a unified message, but the owners cannot collude to form a unified message, and things can get really screwy.

Either they are just laying low and letting the market for Teixeria set itself so they can come in last minute and beat it Well, I guess you nailed that one If Manny and Lowe realized how old they were and took deals with less years they could probably be signed by now. They do realize how old they are. That's why they want a multi-year deal. Since the contract will be guaranteed, they'd rather sign for more years even if they average less $ per year.

The only three entities that must like this are 1) the Yankees, their media, & fan base; 2) the players' union; and 3) ESPN. Actually, all the ESPN announcers I saw were calling the Yankees the "evil empire" and they didn't seem overly happy for them. So, is there any way the rest of the teams in baseball can just refuse to play the Yankees? I know that won't happen, but even the Angels, Red Sox, etc have to be pretty upset with the way things are going this offseason. As others have said, if there was ever a time to fight for a different salary structure, this is it. That said, I think the best idea would be to fight for shared television revenue. The player's union shouldn't be a part of that discussion, so really you'd only have a few teams fighting against the rest of the owners. Of course, Steinbrenner owns YES, so he'd probably just pay the Yankees nothing and make all of the money on the station side.

Players shall not act in concert with other players and clubs shall not act in concert with other clubs. So what exactly is a "union" if it's not players acting in concert with other players?

I guess the thing I'm interested in (and why I thought it may have relevance on a Brewers' fan site) is that the Yankees can only sign a certain number of Type A free agents. They've signed CC and AJ, and I believe they can only sign one more. Therefore, a signing of Manny (or Lowe or anyone other than Tex) would mean that the Brewers would get the Yankee's first round pick for CC and they would be out of the running for Sheets. We'd then have a better shot at signing him, or at least get someone else's first or second rounder for Sheets rather than the Yankee's third rounder. Other than that, I really don't care what the Yankees do, unless it involves a trade with the Brewers. Even though it once looked likely that they would end up with four 2008 Brewers (CC, Sheets, Hall, Cameron) on their roster, I'd still root for the Rays.

This may be better placed in the rumors section, but according to ESPN's bottom line crawl, Manny Ramirez is expecting a 3-year offer from the Yankees. With no one else offering a three-year deal, it could be likely he'd take it. For those of you better in the know, would this be their full allotment of Type A free agents, meaing they'd no longer be in the hunt for Sheets and Lowe? I think if this goes down, and Tex gets signed, we'll start to see a lot of free agent signings follow fairly quickly.

This could definitely help the Brewers shore up their pitching staff. A one-year $5-8MM deal for a #3ish starter would make me feel much better about their rotation. Heck, if no one's making decent offers, it may even allow them to lure Sheets back.

The fact that so many people immediately pointed out that 3 or 4 of the Brewers starters are of little to no value is exactly part of the reason I'm concerned. As I've admitted, I don't have specific answers because I'm not a GM and don't know all of Melvin's available options. Would it be worthwhile to consider moving Fielder or Hardy? Gamel? Depends on what the return could be. Maybe he doesn't really have any good options. I just hoped (still hope) that the offense would receive some kind of overhaul to shift more away from the low-OBP, high-SLG, high-strikeout dominant identity the Brewers currently have. DougJones, I like your post, and share some of your concern, but I don't think people are saying that players like Hart and Weeks have little to no value, it's just that they will not net the young #1/2 pitcher that we would all like to trade for. In order to get that type of player, you would need to trade someone of Fielder's caliber. The best way I can say it is "what would you accept in return in a trade for Gallardo?" Personally, I don't want to trade Fielder or Hardy this offseason as it would seriously hurt our offense, as their in-house replacements aren't quite ready. I don't have any inside insight, but I would bet a lot of money that Gamel isn't going to be traded. I have no doubt that Hart could be traded for a young #3/4 ceiling pitcher (which may be what happens), or a better pitcher in his last year of arby (which I doubt will happen). However, that would leave RF wide open with no one on the current roster to fill it. Many posters have discussed trading Hart for the young pitcher and then signing someone like Dunn or Abreau. This would be nice, but we'd better be sure Dunn/Abreau is going to sign with us before making the trade, or we'd end up seeing Trot Nixon as our everyday RF. Because of his potential, Weeks could also net a decent-but-not-great SP similar to what Hart would return. Once again, you need to ask who would play 2B if Weeks is traded. The answer would be to sign a FA, bring up Escobar before he's ready and move either him or Hardy, seriously decreasing their overall value, or play Iribarren, which would once again, hurt our offense. Maybe it's worth it, maybe not. I tend to lean towards "not." I will agree that Hall has little to no value. He actually could have negative value in a trade. But, technically, as the RH part of a platoon, he's less than half of one of our eight regular starters, so I guess I'll have to learn to live with him on our roster for two more years.

When I saw "GG," I thought this was going to be about trying to get Gabe Gross back. I'm all for adding pitching, but there has to be better options than Glover. Maybe, just maybe, as an insurance starter at AAA, but not as someone that realistically could start for the Brewers more than once in a "call him up, start him for an injured pitcher, let him go" type of deal.

There was a time when I thought a trade of one of our "big name" position players was going to happen this offseason. However: -The trade of LaPorta made trading Fielder this offseason less likely -Hardy said he's always wanted to be a Brewer, making me think they'll lock him up long term, potentially moving him to 3B after this season -After his poor second half, Hart wouldn't land the young stud pitcher the Brewers covet. Plus, trading him would leave a big hole in RF. Moving Gamel from poor fielding AA 3B to starting MLB RF doesn't seem likely to me without first playing the position in AAA. Doing a trade that will hurt you unless another deal happens cold lead to bad things. -Weeks probably doesn't net you too much in a trade, and he actually provides value on this team as one of the few players who takes a walk now and then. While I wouldn't hate to see him traded, he'd probably get you less value in return than he's worth to the team. -If the Yankee fiasco taught us anything, it's that Cameron won't net us the young starter we hoped he would. Although it may still happen, Cameron not being traded means that Melvin can only add one mid-tier ($10MM or so) salary this offseason. As much as I like the idea of Dunn & Abreau, starting pitching is far and away our biggest concern. Since I don't think Fielder or Hardy will be traded and none of Hart, Weeks, Hall or Cameron will net us the young starter, we will need to use the free cash on SP. As I see it, this can happen several ways: 1) We can sign another Suppan-type deal. Find a decent starting pitcher and sign him for 3-4 years for $8-12MM per year. 2) We can actually make an attempt to re-sign Sheets. Crazy as it sounds, he's sitting out there without a contract and we're not talking to him. 3) We can sign Johnson or Smoltz to a one-year deal 4) We can sit around and hope the economy has everyone so scared that we can net one of the decent starting pitchers from (1) above to a one-year deal. There is talk that some players will take one-year deals in hopes that the market will be up next year and they can get a better deal. 5) We can do a deal for someone like Millwood as was brought up in another thread Along with most everyone on this board, I really don't want to see a repeat of the Suppan deal. I'm also not really big on sitting around hoping something happens. Therefore, my first choice would be for a Johnson / Smoltz / Sheets signing. If that doesn't happen, I'll hope we can take someone like Millwood in a salary dump so we wouldn't have to give up much in terms of players. This would solidify our rotation this year and make us a playoff-capable team without creating a big hole somewhere else (as would happen if we traded Hart, Fielder or Cameron). It's only one year, so it won't hamper us for the future. If we're playing well, we'll have some money to add a player. If not, both the pitcher and Cameron can be dealt mid-season. Next season, the current minor leaguers will be ready to step in, allowing us the option to trade some of the players being discussed here without creating a huge hole. I have little doubt that Melvin will do something to land a pitcher, but my gut tells me we're going to end up signing someone from the "whatever's left" pile to a one-year deal. He'll put up #4/5 type numbers and hopefully will be enough to keep us in the Wild Card hunt. I will, however, keep on hoping for that Sheets / Johnson / Smoltz signing until they've all signed elsewhere.

They have about 10 million the way I see it, and if they make a move that takes on significant salary that will be it, there won't be money left for a significant upgrade anywhere else. The can upgrade 1 of the rotation, bullpen, impact bat, or bench, but only 1 with the money they have. It's obvious they aren't spending any more money on the bench with Hall already there, so really we're talking about 1 player for the rotation, bullpen, or position player. I don't see the value in in paying 8 million for 1 inning at a time for top back of the pen guy, they can get more bang for the buck out of a starter or position player. So then it comes down to what starter would be worth it for 10-12 million per year, what 3rd tier guy should we add to make our rotation better? I'm curious because I honestly don't see it, unless Sheets doesn't find anything and we can get him back for that sort of deal, which seems highly unlikely, what 3rd tier guy is a significant upgrade over what we have? Then it comes down to a guy like Dunn who's probably undervalued around the league, but the team would have to make a trade to find a spot for him, and once he's signed that lessens the trade value of player that would have to be moved. A similar situation to Fielder/Overbay... everyone knows Overbay was going to get moved to make room, which hurt his value on the trade market. I would trade the player first and then sign Dunn or Burrell, but I don't see that happening, that's my little pipe dream. Totally agree with you, Crew. That's why I like the idea of Johnson of Smoltz for a one year deal. This allows McClung to the bullpen with Villy as our closer. Although I'd love a LH 3B, I don't think one will be coming our way, so I can live with our offense as it is, as long as we fill our most glaring hole - starting pitching. As far as Nixon goes, our current roster would put Gwynn as the primary backup OF. How would everyone feel if one of our OF went down for a couple of weeks and Gwynn had to get significant playing time? Even without an injury, the #4 OF generally gets 1-2 starts / week, which I feel is too much PT for Gwynn. Nixon is signed to a minor league deal. If he shows he can cut it, then great, we have a LH backup corner OF with some OBP skills, which is exactly what we need. If he can't cut it, he cost us AAA money. While Dunn would be wonderful, he's only feasible if we can trade Hart for the SP we need (which is possible) and if Braun can move to RF. While this would be great if it happens, it still wouldn't make me upset that we signed Nixon. I'll be okay with this offseason if we can get one more arm for the starting rotation, whether that's a good young MLB ready player we'll have for a long time, or a one-year contract for someone like Johnson or Smoltz. I would have liked to ink Kerry Wood or Trevor Hoffman, but we don't have the money, so Villy will likely be our closer, which means we really have to have McClung in our BP, as he did a good job there last season. Then, we need to fill up our bench with low cost role players (a spot Nixon could fill very well), and we need to sign some veteran AAA pitchers as insurance, which is why I'm glad Cappy signed. Maybe I should see the sky falling, but when I look at the team, I see roughly the same team that started last season with playoff aspirations. They lose Sheets, but they hopefully get Gallardo for a full season. Plus all the young players are one year closer to their prime. We have some holes, but we need minor surgery, not a heart transplant.

As piccione88 stated earlier, both the Brewers and the Yankees realize that Igawa has negative value. He is only being discussed in the trade because apparently Melvin would rather have Igawa and pay him $6MM over 3 years than not have Igawa and pick up $6MM of Cameron's salary. Either way, as I stated earlier, this should not even be in discussion. Cameron is fairly paid and is a much better player that Cabrera. When the Yankees are willing to admit this, Melvin should resume talks. As long as the Yankees are "demanding" salary retribution or picking up Igawa, Melvin should walk away and prepare to have Cameron in CF.

I'm in the "I like Cameron and have no problem with him as our starting CF, but if you can get good value for him in a trade take it" crowd. I am also in the "Melky Cabrera is not good value in a trade" crowd. But anyways the NY Daily News is once again reporting that the teams are trying to get Bill Hall into the package again I dislike Hall's play and contract as much as anyone, but we do need to have a 3B next year, and I like Hall/Lamb more than Lamb playing everyday. I hope if Hall is in the trade that (A) it allows us to get a good pitcher in the deal and (B) Melvin has another trade in the wings that will net us a starting 3B, because it doesn't look like there's very much out there on the FA market.

I would think Braun would start getting some work in RF in spring training Why? Unless I read that the Brewers sign Adam Dunn I don't want Braun spending any time in RF.

Unless he has some big deal waiting on his freeing up the money, Melvin really needs to back away and tell Cashman he can go into this season with Cabrera as his CF, a boatload of young pitchers that will never see new Yankee Stadium and a $161MM pitcher that doesn't really want to live in NYC and now won't have his best friend to chat with. This seems like Melvin feels he has to trade Cameron, and it doesn't seem to me like he does. Even with Cameron, we should still have plenty of money to pick up a SP (Johnson / Smoltz) on a one-year deal and shore up our BP and bench. Pick up a couple of AAA SP on minor league contracts for insurance, and go into the season with Villy as your closer, Lamb/Hall as your 3B and basically the same offense that got us to the playoffs this year. Cashman needs to do this deal at least as much as Melvin. If he's unwilling to deal, tell him to take a hike. Call back when you're ready to deal a better pitcher.

in 2010 and 2011 we're waaaaay better than we would be if we tried to be competitive in 2009 Why not try to be competitive in 2009 and then trade Prince for the pitchers that will help us in 2010 and 2011. The two aren't mutually exclusive. After 2009, there will still be pitchers available to trade Prince for, and we'll have bats coming up from the minor leagues that would allow us to better handle the loss of Prince to our lineup without destroying our offense. There's really no need to give up on this season.

If we pick up an everyday 3B, Hall will be the supersub, with Lamb a LH bat off the bench. If we do not pick up an everyday 3B, I'd guess Hall will start at SS the few games Hardy gets a day off. If Hardy were to get hurt for an extended period, I would assume Escobar would be called up. With the current group of players, Hernan is probably a good candidate to start the season as our "utility" player / 25th man.

Sorry, my mistake. I just typed it out quick. They obviously wouldn't. Of course, with that lineup you won't win many games anyhow, so maybe it could be like recess where people just play where they want.

So, if we trade Cameron for Melky and Prince for pitchers, our lineup will be 1B Nelson 2B Weeks SS Hardy 3B Hall/Lamb RF Braun CF Cabrera LF Hart C Kendall with a bench of Hall/Lamb, Rivera, Gwynn, ?, ? I'd guess we'd score a lot less runs than last year, while giving up a lot more (going from Sheets to a talented rookie), leading to a lot more losses, and a team no one wants to watch. No thanks, I'll continue to believe that with a couple of less-spectacular moves, we can still be competitive in 2009 and beyond.

I don´t think however that signing no FA pitchers is the answer either. I like the idea that is being tossed out now of signing guys like Smoltz and Johnson to one year deals. Signing them doesn´t set us back, and if we struggle as a team but they are performing well, they would bring in a reasonable sized haul in a mid-season trade. If they don´t do well, it´s just a one year thing, and it doesn´t prevent us from signing our guys long term. I will say, that I was onboard for signing CC, because he was a difference maker, having him and Gallardo at the top of the rotation makes us a very good shot of being in the playoffs over the next few seasons. But if you are going to go longer than a year or two tops, it better be someone who is a difference maker, and not mediocre. I'm with you. There's little downside risk to signing someone like Johnson or Smoltz to a one-year deal. Even Gagne's deal last year didn't hurt too much in the long-term outlook. I'd much rather sign Johnson/Smoltz to a one-year deal than sign a younger-but-mediocre FA to a 3-4 year deal. Signing Johnson or Smoltz (assuming they're healthy) would shore up our opening day rotation and allow McClung to pitch in the bullpen, where he was effective last season. If Villy can be an effective closer, our MLB pitching roster would be pretty well set. We should be able to do this even if we don't trade Cameron, which would essentially fill all of our "holes" except for 3B, which would be manned by the platoon of Hall/Lamb until Gamel proves he's ready. I'd rather see Sheets back, but at least this would allow us to field a team with a chance of competing. If we are competitive, we should have payroll flexibility to add another player mid-season. If not, as Strawboss mentioned, we could then trade Johnson / Smoltz and Cameron (if still around) during the season to help the future. Next offseason, more of the minor league crop will be knocking at the door which will lead to a greater possibility of trading some of our current major league hitters for longer term pitching answers. I'm far from writing this season off, as we have most of the talent that got us to the playoffs this year. We do, however, have to be careful not to make a stupid desparation move this offseason that will seriously hinder our chances in the future. I think Crew07 is correct that making another Suppan-type deal this offseason could do that. If there is a trade available where we can get a young stud pitcher without destroying our offense, I'm all for it. If it's not there, we still need to have an MLB pitching staff this season. If we can't get Sheets (unlikely) or Lowe (impossible) on a long term deal, then I'm for signing, possibly even "over paying," for someone like Johnson or Smoltz for one year.

As Colby said, Melvin did pursue Hoffman, and for some reason there isn't a fit. All Melvin said was basically "he's a Hall of Famer, so it's hard to say anything bad about him." You can debate whether Hoffman is still good, but the fact is that he won't be a Brewer. Personally, I'm still a little upset that it seems that Wood was the team's #1 target, but they waited until he had an offer on the table from Cleveland before they ever met with his agent. I, too would like to see them get a closer, just because it makes every other BP spot that much better (Villy gets to be "high leverage guy" rather than closer, Riske 7th inning guy rahter than 8th inning guy, etc.). As for the other points, (A) I'm fine with DiFililce as the long man. He showed last year that he was decent, and they're not burning a young guy with potential's pre-arby time sitting on the bench. (B) As of now McClung has to be the fifth starter, but I'd be very surprised if they don't sign at least one more MLB-caliber SPs. I really hope they sign one of the Johnson/Moyer/Smoltz crew and stock up a couple of AAA arms to add insurance when injuries occur. © I hope Hardy is signed long term (he made it clear he wants to be a Brewer). Then, I hope he plays at least this season as SS. If Gamel can play 3B, Escobar can be trade bait next offseason. If not, Hardy can move to 3B, Escobar to SS and Gamel either to OF (trade Hart) or 1B (trade Prince). That's a discussion for next year, though, so there's plenty of time for all of that to work out. Edit: fixed dumb mistake of inserting Hardy's name when I meant Hart

I'd be wary of the Brewers trading any of our starting pitchers at this point, even for other starting pitchers. We basically have four SP right now, plus McClung and Villy, with nothing at AAA. If any of our starters gets hurt, we're toast. We need to stockpile another major league SP and add some AAA depth before we should even discuss trading any of our staff, even Suppan.

Well, the Burnitz trade was pretty bad in retrospect. Fortunately, I don't think Melvin will make any moves that extreme. Well, he's esentially trading an .800+ OPS, gold glove CF for a .650 OPS decent glove CF. I haven't seen much of Melky's play, but everything I read says something to the effect of "The Yankees need to upgrade their CF position because their current players aren't good enough for a playoff caliber team." The current player they're talking about is Cabrera, so I'm not overly enthused about trading a good player for a not-so-good player. The fact that we will have control of this not-so-good player for a long time doesn't sweeten the deal... we have control of all kinds of subpar players, most of whom are eventually let go. I really hope I'm wrong on this, and Cabrera proves himself to be better than I expect. I know he's young and I know he's got potential. However, that's what AAA is for, or what rebuilding teams build with. It shouldn't be what a playoff hopeful team starts everyday, especially when they trade a good player to get it. I was okay with this rumor when I thought Cabrera was the throw-in player in a deal for a starting pitcher. It scares me that Cabrera is the focal point of this trade.

I really hope Melvin is able to pick up a decent second player in this deal, as Cameron for Cabrera only makes the team worse, both offensively and defensively, in 2009. Maybe Melvin has some blockbuster deal in the works and needs the money, but if not, I don't see why they can't afford for example, Jamie Moyer and Fuentes without trading Cameron... they lost a heck of a lot of salary off the books from last season. Maybe they only signed Cameron to trade him, and never had any intention of keeping him this season. In that case, I guess any return is better than the nothing they'd have received if they didn't pick up the option. However, if they are destined to trade him, I would much rather see them pick up a pitcher. I don't think Hart would be a good CF, but I'd rather see us pick up a couple million of Cameron's pay and land Kennedy, play Hart in CF, and sign Abreau, Dunn, or any other decent hitting corner OF. Currently, it looks like we're spending one of our better trading chips to become worse in one position without upgrading any others. If we were in rebuilding mode, I could understand this deal. Get a young player who's under your control that has a lot of upside. But the reality is that if they could re-sign Sheets, they'd have basically the same team that made the playoffs this season, so it's not like they should be rebuilding. As someone else said earlier, we need to make moves that make us better, not just different.