Brewcrew82

I think it’s fair to say that he’s already the most DOMINANT pitcher in franchise history. Since 2020, he’s been the best pitcher in baseball by fWAR. And then, during his CY season of 2021, he put up the second lowest FIP of the modern era, after Pedro’s 1999 season (aka the greatest single season by a pitcher in MLB history). Neither Sheets nor Higuera can replicate that….

Just win a second Cy Young, and we'll trade you to the hometown Dodgers in December for a nice haul.

Yep. That and-1 they gave to Rutgers was absolutely horrendous.

They’ll almost certainly get in with three more conference wins regardless of what they do in the conference tournament, so long as they don’t lose at Minnesota. That would put them at 18-13 overall and 10-10 in the BIG with a relatively high number of Q1 wins and 0 Q3/Q4 losses.

The point is, Burnes was still a top 10 pitcher in the NL who carried the rotation for a significant chunk of the season. He wasn’t as good as 2021, but that was a historically good season that was going to be difficult to repeat. You take him off the team, and we would have struggled to finish above .500…And, of all of our players, he was least responsible for the missed playoffs outcome.

It's not just Burnes, though. It's about a growing pattern of complaints about management's relations with players, franchise cornerstones no less. That's what's most concerning from my perspective. The team has lost some goodwill amongst the players and the fanbase in recent months, and needs to work to restore that. Winning will obviously go a long ways, but trading your all-star reliever while you're in first place or pissing off arguably the most dominant pitcher in franchise history over 750k won't.

He seemingly wanted the same increase from Arb 1 to Arb 2 that Shane Bieber got in January at 10.56 Mil. Far from unreasonable, and it's basic negotiating strategy to start higher than your actual asking price. But I don't think the team is in the wrong for holding firm at their price. Where they crossed the line, if it is indeed true, is by trying to assert that Burnes was at the "forefront" of why the team missed the playoffs. Then, when you take into account recent public comments from other players such as Hader, Lauer, Williams, Cain, etc., it becomes part of a concerning pattern from this FO...

I will say that I don't get the people who think Burnes is going to sabotage our season because of this. He has every incentive to continue to pitch the way he has over the past three years to get perhaps the richest contract for a SP in MLB history...

Burnes is human. I think many on this board would act and feel the same if they were in his shoes. I'm cetainly not going to cast stones at Burnes, particularly if the team is going to try to argue that he's largely responsible for them missing the playoffs.

An extension for Woodruff or Adames wouldn't be prohibitive for an extension for Chourio if done during his first year a la Franco, Rodriguez, etc.

And what sources do you have to offer alternatively? McCalvy is a professional journalist and the long-time beat reporter for the TEAM'S website. Unless you have a better source, I'm inclined to believe his information here... Again, you do realize that one of the basic tactics of negotiation is to start above your actual asking price so that the other party will negotiate down to that price?

We'll see what happens with their efforts to extend his teammates in Woodruff and Adames, as well as the next crop of stars in Chourio, Frelick, etc. I'm not convinced it's that simple...

Reaching too far to want the same Arb 2 increase as Bieber, also a former Cy Young Winner with virtually identical 2022 numbers? Seems logical to me.

Probably because he thought he could get the Brewers there by filing for $10.75. You know, basic negotiation...

You might be able to, but will the rest of the league view it in that way?

Sorry, I meant the same increase from arb 1 to arb 2. At $6 million, that would have brought Burnes up to $10.56 million...

It could realistically be construed that way, but that would require ignoring Cain and Hader's similar comments...

They could've offered him the Bieber sum before the hearing, and it would have been accepted according to McCalvy..

Burnes made his comments, and said that's what they said in the hearing. Brewers haven't denied it, simply saying it's a difficult process, and they hope both sides can move on. I'm inclined to believe the player here... And then taking into account Cain's and Hader's comments, it starts to become quite concerning...

From Adam McCalvy: "Based on their similar statistics, Burnes’ case had parallels to another former Cy Young Award winner, Cleveland’s Shane Bieber. Bieber earned $6 million last season in his first arbitration year and went 13-8 with a 2.88 ERA and a 132 ERA+ in 200 innings. That earned him a $4.01 million raise to $10.01 million earlier this offseason. Burnes, meanwhile, earned $6.55 million last season in his first arbitration year and went 12-8 with a 2.94 ERA and a 134 ERA+ in 202 innings. The way the arbitration system works, Burnes could make a case that he deserved a similar increase in salary to Bieber, which would have pushed him to $10.56 million. Had the Brewers offered that, a source said, it would have been accepted. Indeed, the sides were very close to an agreement in January, Burnes said. But those talks fell apart right at the deadline for teams and players to formally exchange figures, and each side retreated into its corner. The Brewers filed at $10.01 million. Burnes filed at $10.75 million." Brewers seem to have been every bit as unwilling to compromise as Burnes... · Brewers ready for start of According to Burnes, there were little negotiations after that -- partly because that’s part of a strategy adopted by teams who tend to go to a hearing after the exchange of figures. The exception is usually for a multi-year deal, and the Brewers indeed came to Burnes a day or two before the scheduled hearing with offers that included either a club option or a mutual option for 2024. But, according to a source, Burnes and his camp considered both years of those offers to be undervalued. The offers were rejected.

It's the epitome of foolishness for the team to lay Corbin at the "forefront" of us missing the playoffs, considering he was the single biggest reason why we were in contention to begin with.... As for the 2021 NLDS? Please...He was honest with Counsell about where his body was at, and Counsell made the decision to start Lauer. Or have you not seen the stats on starters pitching in the postseason on 3 day's rest?

Yeah. Cain feeling slighted seems ridiculous. But it's never something you want to hear said about management, and then you add in Hader and Burnes' comments...Concerning, to say the least, in terms of our reputation around the league and our aspirations of actually winning a World Series.

This is becoming a bit of a pattern here w/ Cain, Hader, and now Corbin criticizing management for not valuing them and/or not wanting to win a World Series. That's the most concerning thing to take out of this imo. Is this how we're going to be perceived around the league? Granted, as Brewers fans, we don't follow other team's relationships with their star players as closely as we do the Brewers, but the FO needs to realize it's about more than just maximizing value and minimizing risk...Maybe that's all Mark cares about though?

It's a gross distortion of the truth, when in actuality, Corbin was the single biggest reason why we were able to dream of the playoffs in the first place. He hit a bit of a rough patch in August/early September, for sure, but tell me which pitcher doesn't go through those types of stretches. Meanwhile, he carried the starting pitching staff on his back over the rest of the season. Bottom line is his performance is far down on the list of reasons why they failed to make the playoffs, and he's the player on the team LEAST responsible for that outcome. Brewers made a clear mistake by going there...It's almost unbelievable.

Very interesting and in-depth analysis of Urias over on Reddit, in addition to yesterday's article from @Tim Muma. I really like that he's going to be playing 2B this year, as he profiles so much better there than 3B or SS, which should help him to accumulate additional defensive value. Then, with the bat, he should boosted by the fact that he's no longer dealing with a wrist injury, which seemed to have really affected his ability to swing during the middle part of the season. Case in point, his September/October slash line: .328/.415/.507. And he's still only 25, with a sterling prospect pedigree...I agree with the author in that I could easily see him putting up a 4-5 WAR season and establishing himself as a top-tier second baseman in baseball.