BrewerFan

Why would you HAVE to take Story back and exclude Mayer from the trade? Story can play 2B(which he's mostly played in Boston). They got .599 and .633 OPS out of their SS/2B combo last year. And I don't think you have to exclude Mayer from the deal, but maybe expand it. Williams perhaps. They also have Rafaela who draws comps to Mookie Betts and can play CF, SS, 2B, 3B and play them all at a high level AND hit...and he's MLB-ready. There are a plenty of trades with Boston that'd work; Rafaela, Wikelman Gonzalez(seems like an ideal candidate for our pitching development with plus stuff), and Whitlock has a big ceiling and could certainly help. Hell, if they end up investing in another pitcher, Sale could be a potential trade option. There's plenty of talent in Boston. I just can't tell what direction they're moving in. The Betts trade, letting Xander leave...they seem half in, half out, but Burnes and Adames both seem like great fits for them and we can certainly add plenty of players for our system.

I agree on both counts, but depth is important...especially in your rotation. It's what kept us alive this past year. I hope Crow can add a couple of ticks, get up to 94MPH, his secondary pitches are his best pitches, but more FB velo is always nice. I just liked the SPing depth(especially IF they bring Burnes back, if not, I'd actually get it more). And I also think it's important to have a balanced lineup. Yelich, Frelick, Mitchell, Black, Turang, Bauers(all could be preferred starters) and then Perkins struggles vs LHPing and Dunn, potentially our top utility guy. We're LH heavy and this been an ongoing issue. If Wiemer, Chourio both hit this year, then we're good. Also, a Santana return would help. I do think something else is coming down the barrel though. We'll see what it is.

I may have missed it, but did players articulate their frustrations with Barry last year? I agree it was a mistake. I wouldn't have said colossal because I didn't think they had much of a chance to do anything this year(make the playoffs, but get spanked by a good team). But if that's the case, it's even worse. I had a hard time finding this, but I'm telling you, I don't think MLF has the autonomy people believe he does. https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/#:~:text=He was supposed to have,decision-maker%2C sources said. We get FAR more from the NFL every year on the 1st day of the league year than we spend on players salaries(except for when we go nuts with these giant signing bonuses and even then I don't think we've spent more on players salaries+signing bonuses than their National TV Share). So the thought that we low-balled one of the best STC in the NFL the year before the 49ers debacle(that whole season really) or that keeping Pettine or Barry may be due to not wanting to pay 2 Coordinators...it's infuriating. And then there was Drayton. Did he get the job because he earned it...while coaching under the terrible Special Team Coordinators, or because he was on staff and cheap? I'm not saying I know, I'm just saying Murphy taking a larger role and sticking his nose into the hiring decisions other than GM...it's not good for the franchise.

Ok, well, that's not what you said...you said; His defense is his carrying tool. As for how he'll hit, you're guessing how he'll hit. .271/.362/.461 with a ~12% BB rate and a 18% K rate is pretty respectable...particularly given how his early MiLB career went. Drafted, Covid, skipped to AA. Seems like a pretty obvious late bloomer. In any event, he's not Scheiner because he has the same WRC+. The whole plus D at SS and 3B is a pretty big difference over a poor 3B who's more of a 1B/LF putting up the same offensive production.

Exactly. I don't hate this trade, but you nailed it perfectly.

Should start in AAA, clearly more of an IFer and I just went through this. sub .200 BA, well under .300 OBP and a .603 OPS vs LHed pitching. We've long struggled with lefties. This exacerbates that issue. But I'm with @wiguy94. If this is a sign we're looking toward 2025, fine. Makes sense. If we're trying to compete next year, it makes little sense.

I understand that, but as I said, you have Yelich, Mitchell, Frelick who are lefties and Perkins who was BRUTAL vs lefties. Taylor would and should have gotten ABs in '24(again, if he were on the roster). RHed bats have been a weakness. And with respect, I don't really care about Steamer(I know it's a valuable resource but with rookies?). But you have a LOT of innings to cover. Gasser could have pitched WITH Houser in the same rotation or as long men. It was never an either or. I'm fine with the idea of planning more for the future or just trading these players, but again, trashing them(not saying YOU are) or saying they had no value to the team....seems silly. I'm also not excited about a young soft tosser who's undergoing TJ. For as much as you want to say the Brewers produce pitchers, Stearns has been largely responsible for that. So he thought enough of Houser and apparently not a ton of Crow.

Well, that's misleading, but, it's a stupid metric either way(off-season spending). What did we spend on catcher last year? Many wanted to sign a guy...can't remember his name, but good catcher. Went to Chicago and we got this Contreras kid! 24, better than the 31-year-old and we got at least one SU man and quite possibly another who dealt with injury last year. SPENDING is not the end all be all. We've seen that...every year. I don't love this trade at first blush(I do trust Arnold). What I really hate is kinda kicking players in the arse on the way out saying they weren't any good anyway and overpaid...almost as much as the complaining about Attanasio.

YES-WE-DID. That's approximately their yearly value at a very low price. So yeah, that's the value we traded away. Having another young pitcher doesn't mean you have to "replace" Houser. Who is going to replace Woodruff, Burnes, and whoever else inevitably ends up traded or hurt? You're also assuming Gasser is going to just slide into MLB and pitch well despite the fact And Taylor very easily could have gotten opportunities because...again, as I mentioned, we need OFers who can hit RHed pitching and Yelich will DH plenty. Yes...players with his raw power and picturesque swing NEVER develop after LowA.

The "crowing," pun is good maybe once...after that, not so much. I think I'll miss what Taylor provided down the stretch. He was also swinging the bat REALLY well in the series vs AZ. 2R HR and then that bullet where Adames got doubled off. But you're right. It WAS a position of strength. I think Wieguy is arguing we didn't get enough value back and that you're really understating the value these guys brought because they weren't middle of the order hitters or top of the rotation arms. It does in this context. You can't argue a player is overpaid when the market repeatedly proves you wrong. These players went into Free Agency, they got paid...and you're arguing they're overpaid? That's the market telling you exactly what their value is. I understand we had an excess of OFers and it made sense to trade from them, but Taylor very likely had a role in the 2024 OF had they kept him. You have Yelich, Mitchell and Frelick who are all lefties. Perkins put up a ..192/.276/.327 for a paltry .603 OPS last year. Wiemer may well end up being our RHed bat...but it seems likely he needs time in AAA. So I see plenty of opportunities for Taylor, if he were to remain in Milwaukee to be a RHed bat off the bench. Certainly worth the 1.7M. I hope they end up being right about Crow...but you're likely hoping he ends up as good as Houser. So...he had value. Again, not "crowing" about this trade, but it feels more like a salary dump...and underselling the value the players we traded had to this team seems...a bit disingenuous.

Scheiner and Devanney are not the same player. Devanney is a SS/3B who plays outstanding defense. Scheiner is a 3B/1B who does not.

Houser is NOT overpaid and I hate the term "innings eater," in a derogatory manner. You NEED people to throw innings. He's thrown over 350 the last 3 years and his ERA is right about 4.00. In no way is that remotely overpaid when looking at starting pitching. He's a good, valuable pitcher and that much more valuable when you're looking at these 6 man rotations that we've shifted toward. Taylor...I think high quality is a pretty fitting description of him as a 4th OFer. He can play all 3 OF positions at a high level and he's got power. 2.1 WAR in '22, 1.7 in '21. Last year he dealt with the arm injury, but he was carrying us toward the end of last year. I think that's pretty high quality for a 4th OFer. You traded away ~3 WAR a season roughly...and you got back a pitcher with a low ceiling. I'm not going to mourn the loss of Houser, but it's a blow and he was hardly overpaid in 2023.

Well, for the sake of argument, you'd justifiably be able to keep him in the minors for quite a while rehabbing(6 weeks is it?)...and then given that he's coming back off TJ, it wouldn't be hard to say he's dealing with more arm fatigue and then do that again. But you're still well short of the service time requisite and you head into '25 in the same situation.

I'd think it'd be the current years draft pool(meaning the year the player was drafted) and then the time before the draft allows for the potential punishment(if you went over enough to lose the pick). But I've tried looking that up as well and can't find it. I do wonder what a guy like Misiorowski would have done if he'd been offered 1.8M. Would he turn that down and roll the dice in the draft? He wasn't someone everyone had on their top 100 boards IIRC. He was a guy people were all over the board on. He got a bigger bonus, but that was after he had more leverage as the 2nd rd pick. I'm sure it's going to be rare though.

They could have just non-tendered them. They must like Crow's arm somewhat.

I really like MLF, think he's a good coach for Love, the offense...but IF he's lost the locker room, even if it's just because of Barry, then you may be right. There's so little information available beyond the obvious fact that players are not happy, it's hard to tell. How badly hurt IS Jaire? Two years ago he had that broken shoulder and we kept hoping he'd be back, it played out like this and he was back part-time vs SF and not able to tackle Deebo. I think we'll again find out after this season what the injury was and have a better idea. I'd like to hear what Kenny Clark thinks. He's a professional, never had ANY attitude issues and he's the most veteran leader on the team. This cannot be allowed to snowball. Players can't talk about not playing banged up because of coaching remarks and coaches need to be smart enough to have the pulse of the locker room. And as much as I like Jim Leonhard, if a guy like Saleh(he won't) becomes available, it may be a good idea to get a former HC in there. Zimmer perhaps... I'd love to see Al Harris brought back to GB as the DBs coach/passing game coordinator. Not sure that's a good enough promotion, but spend the money. What the hell else do the Packers have to do with it? I don't know how good of a coach Stenovich is since he doesn't call plays(the OL has improved as the season has gone on). There are a lot of things to be excited about with this team. Love, the young talent on both sides who've played well individually. We're close personnel-wise. Just young players growing, a LT, Safety...but with a team this young, leadership is as important as anything.

Yeah, it was a let down. Leonhard turned down the job, then it was between two coaches, one who'd never been a DC, one who was an up-and-coming coach. I tried to be optimistic as Preston Smith was probably one of the 2-3 best players Barry had in Washington or Det, but he'd failed as a DC. It really feels like MLF talks to Barry every year, he adjusts a little bit, they play better and then he just goes back to nickel playing Quarters or as it was last week, some SOFT ass cover 6 on 3rd and 4.

The examples I gave. That he wanted to fire Pettine and he was convinced to keep him an extra year, the fact that he wanted to give Rizzi the job and they low-balled him, and then the fact that he was pressured to hire Drayton. That Murphy got involved in the process AT-ALL is a problem that dates back several years. And yes, firing people is not fun. It never is and I get that. But it needs to be done. This was surprising, but I really doubt this is about fan criticism. This sounds like it's coming from in the locker room. I'd thought it really didn't matter if they made the move in-season or next season, but they need to make it now.

Ok...that's what I was wondering about. That'd be a good way to use a couple of late picks following talented HS arms that are going to Juco's. I'd imagine most talented Juco arms will end up transferring to 4 year schools.

No, they reinstated the draft and follow rules. If you're picked after the 10th rd and going to a Juco, you can still make an offer...but I don't know how much you can offer. 250K, but I don't know if you go over how that would work. Maybe you can't?

Yeah, it's clearly a bigger issue, but you can't change or impact that, you can impact where he plays in the field. Also...may be totally unrelated, but I've got a friend who is a tank. He doesn't have any problem working all day doing whatever...we spent a weekend cutting down a bunch of trees and splitting and then stacking them up at my Uncle's place. Then he goes hunting and he's in the blind and his back is killing him and locking up because he's NOT moving and he's sitting too much. So he's fine picking up a 100-pound log, tossing it, whatever, but just standing or sitting and his back starts bothering him. I don't get it, but can't see why he's be lying to me.

I don't trust the structure anymore. Everyone is blaming MLF. Maybe rightly so, maybe it's not his call because it hasn't been his call at times in the past(as I mentioned, extra year of Pettine, Rizzi, Drayton pushed on him, all things Coordinator decisions he seemingly had little say over). Is it Murphy? When that idiot opened his mouth talking about how they'll bring Rodgers back if things don't work out how they want them to(or however he worded it) well before the trade was completed, seemingly giving the Jets some control, it was more confirmation he's taking a heavier hand in the Football operations. That's NOT how Harlan turned this ship around or how he ran things under McCarthy. I trust the player evaluation process right now...mostly. MLF is a good offensive coach(IMO). There are some questions about the rest of the leadership. Gutekunst is the one guy who's gone from really hated to having a little more respect among fans. He's dating pretty well, but there seems to be some dysfunction at the top.

I think we just let camp play out. I can easily envision a scenario in which Mitchell is hitting 3rd on opening day or starting in AAA. We have a whole spring and I think the only one who's guaranteed a spot as of now...among the young OFers...is Chourio. And even he could easily end up spending some time in AAA if he struggled. Not much, but some. Mitchell has ~140 career ABs. When he was called up, people were clamoring for Frelick. He's not really proven anything as a hitter and defensively, the gap isn't big enough to say you just have to have Mitchell in the lineup. I really like Wiemer. I hope he has a great ST'ing and earns the RF job. IF you meant it'd be a waste to have him as a 4th OFer, that I'd agree with. We have Taylor and Perkins, so if Wiemer or Mitchell struggles, then they can work in AAA, I'd agree with that. If they're on the 26-man, they should be starting at this point.

Let's move Chourio back to SS. Yelich goes to 3B(he played 1B, how hard can 3rd be). Let's call Lara back up there...he's young, and he slides over to RF and Wiemer, he's a bigger guy, big arm. We can teach guys how to catch. Dump Contreras and let's start Joey at C!