Matt Breen

Thanks for the catch. You are right. I corrected it. I cut and paste things - then change the text for the person. I do that for everyone, so I always seem to make a mistake like this every time. Thanks for catching it.

This is so stupid.

Ryan Braun has hit .333 over the last 21 days.

Did someone say something about "desperate measures????" Hey, Stearns, you have my number. http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mlb/players/full/6218.png&w=350&h=254 You can never go wrong with that.

I'm guessing: Anderson Nelson Woodruff Suter Davies They hold on to Garza into camp and wait to see if there are any injuries. If not, they deal him to a team that needs him. Guerra acts as the next guy up. Burnes is in the rotation by the trade deadline. I'm guessing Hader is bullpen bound - but again, that's just a guess (along with all the rest).

This is a good question. And some of it is me projecting my own opinions on the write-ups. The answer is that I feel that some people seem to have bias against Ray because they didn't like the pick in the first place. Thus, they are very quick to denigrate him and don't want to give him a chance. In some ways it's an emotional response - and I understand it. His numbers have not been good - so it's frustrating to see such a valuable asset - the 5th pick in the draft - look like a bomb. Thus, it's easy to downgrade the guy in a poll like this when it works into the narrative people have on Ray. "It was a bad pick. We should have picked a pitcher (or whatever other argument). He's going to be a bomb. He was never good to begin with." I think it's easy to downgrade him a few ticks (or a lot of ticks) - consciously or unconsciously - if you have this feeling. As for people not liking the Ray pick, you can find lots and lots of arguments about the pick in the original draft thread - and then the discussion has come up repeatedly in many, many threads over the past year. I've seen people declare Ray a 'bomb' and 'waste' and things like that. I can't think about any pick that has experienced as much hostility from people in the last few years as Ray. Again, I understand the frustration. He isn't doing well. I also should note that I don't think it affected Ray's ranking much - if at all. He's still pretty high. One of the biggest challenges Ray had coming out of college was that he hadn't produced elite numbers. They were good - but not great. We expect great for the #5 pick. To ignore the numbers is foolish. However, the Brewers knew that Ray was going to have to make adjustments as a pro. They knew there would be some growing pains. To ignore the other things that come with being an exceptional player, such as elite athleticism and makeup, is foolish as well. Scouts, baseball analysts, front office people - they all saw the upside that Ray possessed - even if he hadn't channeled that athleticism into better raw numbers. Lofty draft status means a person was highly thought of by the baseball community - so yes, there will be a bias. But that bias has a basis in the original projections that the baseball world had for Ray (or any draft pick). I don't think it's wise to dismiss those things so quickly. I know that the Brewers loved Ray. They saw him as a guy who could develop into a 15-20 HR guy, steal 30 bases, hit .280, and play good defense. It's not just tools - it's athleticism. It's something a lot of people don't have. And baseball people described Ray as having elite athleticism. I think the only guy in the system that projects that kind of skill is Monte Harrison. I said earlier that in the end, production is what matters. But the production that matters is in the major leagues. The minors are to develop - and sometimes that development will come with a lot of aches and pains. I do want to note that people rank players in different ways. Some people look at production more than others with regard to rankings. That's fine. Others might look more at upside. Again, that's fine as well. Sports are littered with failures of guys who couldn't put everything together. And it's nuts how high picks can turn sour very quickly (Mark Appel, for instance). Again, the comment was based on my own perceptions. I don't think Ray is highly ranked (#9) because of his draft status. It's because of his athleticism and skill that got him that draft status. Yes, we want more production. In fact, we will demand it at some point. No doubt even Ray's believers are holding their breaths - hoping he improves. Time will tell.

We go on 50 IP and 130 ABs - just like the majors. We don't do the days of service. It is often hard to find their exact days of service (maybe not for main guys, but for the lower level guys you just don't know). And it eliminates guys like Wang, who had less than 20 IP after his 'rookie' season. So we just stick with the IP and ABs as a guideline. However, it is just a guideline. We can do what we want. Example, if someone is close to graduating, we will make them ineligible. So if Hader is sitting at 45 IP at the end of the year, we'll likely just graduate him - especially if it's obvious that he'll be on the roster to start next season. I should note that this usually only happens with relievers. So it's not as if it comes up a lot.

I look at the list and have to acknowledge the fickle nature of prospects. I mean, many of these guys are teenagers when we start assessing them, and who knows how they will turn out. A couple of years ago Tyrone Taylor was barely beat out by Orlando Arcia as our top prospect. Fast forward to today and Arcia is entrenched at SS, while Taylor got one vote in our poll. What makes Arcia mature into a major leaguer and what causes Taylor to fail? Often times, you just can't tell. Development is so weird.

Yeah, Stokes was weird. He was ignored by a lot of people, but pretty high on others. He's kind of flown under the radar up to now - but that will change. As for people not being on ballots -- that happens. Sometimes it's a mistake. Sometimes it's just a person being weird. In the end, you just have to shrug and move on.

Observations: - A lot of movement in this poll. - A lot of new faces as well. - Some long time Top 25 guys have tumbled - some badly. - Amazing to see Gilbert Lara get 1 single vote. Same with Tyrone Taylor. - Hader got quite a few votes as the top prospect - but he also got downgraded by quite a few voters. I suspect that some of those people feel that Hader is destined for the bullpen - where he won't be as valuable. - The struggles of the Carolina hitters was interesting. Diaz, Ray, Erceg, Clark - all these guys fell a few slots. It will be interesting to see how they do outside of Carolina. It should be noted that some hitters did just fine in Carolina - including Jake Gatewood and Troy Stokes Jr.

The 2017 Mid-Season BF.net Community Top 25 is complete. We had 61 ballots - the same as we had last mid-season. Thanks very much for everyone’s input. Lewis Brinson took the top spot on 41 of the 61 ballots. Josh Hader got 13 first place votes, Brandon Woodruff three top votes, and Keston Hiura, Freddy Peralta and Brett Phillips each getting one nod. Newcomers to Top 25: Keston Hiura (new at #4), Tristen Lutz (new at #15), Trey Supak (new at #22), Troy Stokes, Jr. (new at #23), Mario Feliciano (new at $24) and KJ Harrison (new at #25) Exited the Top 25: Demi Orimoloye, Taylor Williams (but just by one slot!), Nathan Kirby, Jorge Lopez and Ryan Cordell (via trade) Number of ballots: 61 Number of players on ballots: 61 Mr. Irrelevant (1 point): Gilbert Lara, Tyrone Taylor, Zack Clark, Je’Von Ward, Adrian Houser Risers: Corbin Barnes (15 spots), Trey Supak (15 spots), Troy Stokes Jr. (10 spots), Monte Harrison (6 spots), Brett Phillips (5 spots), Freddy Peralta (5 spots), Jake Gatewood (5 spots), Kodi Medeiros (5 spots) Fallers: Gilbert Lara (42 spots), Nathan Kirby (27 spots), Jorge Lopez (22 spots), Erceg (10 spots), Diplan (10 spots), Orimoloye (10 spots), Bickford (6 spots) Players with a decent chance to be ineligible for the next poll: Josh Hader, Brandon Woodruff If you see any mistakes, please let me know. Sometimes autocorrect will trick me. Or I’ll cut and paste something incorrectly. Other times I just mess something up. I will update as needed. We'll do post-season poll sometime in October or early November.

#1 ( - ) Lewis Brinson, OF, AAA Colorado Springs, Age 23. 285 ABs, .333 BA, .403 OBP, .947 OPS - AAA 47 ABs, .106 BA, .236 OBP, .513 OPS - Milwaukee 1,477 points (41 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots Brinson’s performance at AAA are overshadowed by his lackluster performance in the majors thus far (small sample size alert). His AAA numbers have been partially fueled by the light air of Colorado Springs, where his he has a 1.061 OPS versus an .821 road OPS. An elite talent, expect Brinson to play full time in Milwaukee in the future - but be prepared for some growing pains. #2 ( - ) Josh Hader, LHP, Milwaukee Brewers, Age 23. 52 IP, 31 BB, 51 K, 5.37 ERA, 1.54 WHIP - AAA 22.1 IP, 17 BB, 27 K, 0.81 ERA, 1.21 WHIP - Milwaukee 1,440 points (13 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots Bullpen or rotation? That’s the question for Josh Hader. The big lefty has been an asset out of the pen in Milwaukee thus far, but he has been inconsistent both in the majors and minors in 2017. If Hader can refine his command and control, he will be a success - no matter what role he serves going forward. There’s a chance Hader graduates from this list by season’s end. #3 (+4) Brandon Woodruff, RHP, Milwaukee Brewers, Age 24. 72.2 IP, 24 BB, 70 K, 1.35 ERA, 1.50 WHIP - AAA 1,299 points (3 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots Woodruff has had an odd ride in 2017. His first 6-7 weeks were outstanding, despite pitching many of his games in Colorado Springs. An injury delayed his Milwaukee debut, but he threw 6+ innings last week and got his first win. A decent finish to 2017 would likely solidify him a spot in the 2018 rotation. #4 (new) Keston Hiura, DH, A- Wisconsin, Age 21 62 ABs, .435 BA, .500 OBP, 1.339 OPS - AZL Rookie 79 ABs, .333 BA, .333 OBP, .333 OPS - Wisconsin 1,265 points (1 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots Milwaukee’s top pick in the 2017 amateur draft was billed as the best hitter of this year’s crop. Hiura has not disappointed - as his gaudy numbers show. Hiura should slot in at 2B in 2018, and if he can settle in defensively, could have a fast track ticket to the big leagues. #5 (+15) Corbin Burnes, RHP, AA Biloxi, Age 22. 60 IP, 16 BB, 56 K, 1.05 ERA, 0.88 WHIP - A+ 59.1 IP, 9 BB, 61 K, 2.12 ERA, 0.88 WHIP - AA 1,257 points (1 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots Based on numbers, if Burnes had been 1st round pick in 2016 - instead of a 4th - he would be one of the top prospects in major league baseball. He has simply been dominant - forcing his way up 15 spots in our Top 25 poll. Burnes might lack some of the tools of baseball’s top pitchers, but he is an aggressive pitcher who isn’t afraid to attack the zone. His low walk rate and rising strikeout rate are great signs. Expect him to pop up on Top 100 lists this offseason. #6 (-1) Luis Ortiz, RHP, AA Biloxi, Age 21. 80.2 IP, 31 BB, 72 K, 3.57 ERA, 1.13 WHIP - AA 1,238 points - 61 of 61 ballots The numbers are good - not great. The performance solid, but not inspiring. It all makes for a slow, but steady push for the big righty. Ortiz has as much talent as any pitcher in the Brewer system. He has come on of late, giving hope that he can elevate his game yet this year. Conditioning and health have always been a question with Ortiz, and the club would no doubt like to see him go deeper into games. #7 (-4) Isan Diaz, 2B/SS, A+ Carolina, Age 21 369 ABs, .225 BA, .339 OBP, .715 OPS - A+ 1,065 points - 61 of 61 ballots After Diaz’s excellent 2016, his struggles are a disappointment to Brewer fans and the organization. His drop in our ranking reflect that disappointment - but his slotting still shows his enormous potential. Diaz possesses above average power and a plus bat speed, as well as a willingness to take a walk. In the future, moving out of the run-depressing environment of Carolina may be one remedy to reignite Diaz’s numbers. #8 (+5) Brett Phillips, OF, AAA Colorado Springs, Age 23. 316 ABs, .310 BA, .381 OBP, .970 OPS - AAA 35 ABs, .229 BA, .289 OBP, .718 OPS - Milwaukee 1,016 points (1 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots Phillips re-energized his standing amongst voters (even garnering a 1st place vote) in 2017. Phillips still strikes out at a very high rate, but he has shown more power and better discipline this year. And while many batters have inflated numbers due to playing in Colorado Springs, Phillips has managed a nifty .927 OPS on the road. The big question is where does Phillips play going forward? If he steps up his game, he could potentially supplant Brinson as the team’s future CF. But with Ryan Braun in LF and Domingo Santana in RF, he might serve more as a semi-regular (filling in for the likely injuries that will occur). #9 (-3) Corey Ray, OF, A+ Carolina, Age 22. 356 ABs, .239 BA, .315 OBP, .689 OPS, 21 SBs - A+ 916 points - 60 of 61 ballots Being the fifth overall pick in the 2016 draft - and a college bat - meant high expectations for Ray. He has, unfortunately, struggled in his first full year as a pro. The good: Ray is hitting a decent (but not great) .270 with a .774 OPS away from Carolina. The bad: a 31.2% strikeout rate. Some BF.net fans seem to have a dislike for Ray due to the fact that they did not want Milwaukee to draft him (as they didn’t think he was that good). But scouts universally praise Ray’s talents, character and acumen. It is up to Ray to put his entire game together to reach his potential. #10 (-2) Trent Clark, OF, A+ Carolina, Age 20. 365 ABs, .230 BA, .363 OBP, .738 OPS, 29 SBs - A+ 904 points - 60 of 61 ballots Many felt that a healthy Trent Clark would re-establish himself as an elite hitting prospect in 2017. Clark has certainly improved over 2016, showing more power, an exceptional walk rate and speed on the base paths. But his .230 BA and 25+% strikeout rate are concerning. There is a lot to like here - but also a lot to give pause. Like several other talented hitters in the Brewer system, Clark needs to put his entire game together if he wants to stay in our Top 10 rankings. #11 (-2) Mauricico Dubon, SS/2B, AAA Colorado Springs, Age 23. 268 ABs, .276 BA, .338 OBP, .689 OPS, 31 SB - AA 157 ABs, .287 BA, .317 OBP, .769 OPS, 6 SB - AAA 891 points - 60 of 61 ballots Acquired from Boston this past off season, Dubon broke out big in 2016, hitting .323. His numbers have regressed this year a little, but he is showing speed and versatility. Going forward, Dubon probably best profiles at SS, but that spot is ably held in Milwaukee. 2B could also be his future in Milwaukee, but his bat likely would not be anything special at the position (his solid 2017 numbers at AAA mask a .517 OPS away from Colorado Springs). At the least, he could potentially fill a valuable utility role. #12 (+5) Freddy Peralta, RHP, AA Biloxi, Age 21. 56.1 IP, 31 BB, 78 K, 3.04 ERA, 1.24 WHIP - A+ 39.1 IP, 20 BB, 55 K, 2.75 ERA, 1.17 WHIP - AA 870 points (1 1st place votes) - 61 of 61 ballots 133 strikeouts in 95.2 innings. That’s the number that pops out for Freddy Peralta. Peralta offers a plus fastball and change up, and a developing slider. And while the high walk rate is something to watch out for, fans should are excited about the progress shown by the undersized righty (as his five spot rise in our Top 25 shows). #13 (+6) Monte Harrison, OF, A+ Carolina, Age 22. 223 ABs, .265 BA, .359 OBP, .834 OPS, 11 SB - A- 131 ABs, .252 BA, .319 OBP, .816 OPS, 7 SB - A+ 779 points - 59 of 61 ballots After a couple of injury plagued seasons, Harrison has had a breakout of sorts in 2017. He should hit 20 HR this year and steal 20 bases. His performance has risen his rankings an impressive six slots. Harrison is a tremendous athlete still learning the game of baseball. Don’t be surprised if he puts together a monster season when it all comes together. #14 (-10) Lucas Erceg, 3B, A+ Carolina, Age 22. 415 ABs, .243 BA, .282 OBP, .677 OPS - A+ 757 points - 61 of 61 ballots After an outstanding debut in 2016, expectations were high for the slugging 3B in 2017. Erceg has, however, struggled, and thus tumbled in our rankings. It should be noted that the Carolina League is difficult for power hitters. #15 (new) Tristen Lutz, OF, Rookie Helena, Age 19. 64 ABs, .297 BA, .366 OBP, .960 OPS - AZL 24 ABs, .417 BA, .481 OBP, 1.256 OPS - Helena 753 points - 59 of 61 ballots The Brewers second selection this year (Milwaukee lured him away from his college commitment with an over-slot bonus of $2.352M), the 18-year old Lutz has come out slugging in pro ball. From Arizona to Helena, Lutz is tantalizing Brewer fans with his long ball potential (he has 6 HR in 88 at bats). With his power bat, strong arm and good instincts, Lutz profiles as a right fielder. If he keeps hitting, he should rise in the prospect ranks quickly. But caution should be taken with the small sample sizes. #16 (+4) Jake Gatewood, 1B/3B, AA Biloxi, Age 21. 420 ABs, .269 BA, .340 OBP, .779 OPS - A+ 547 points - 58 of 61 ballots This is what you like to see with toolsy players - the guy putting a lot of things together to emerge as a realistic prospect. 36 doubles, 11 HR, and an improved walk rate all went with an overall maturation as a ballplayer - allowing Gatewood to have his best pro season. The next step will be unlocking Gatewood’s power potential. He was just recently was promoted to AA Biloxi. #17 (-6) Phil Bickford, RHP, Age 22 468 points - 52 of 61 ballots Bickford has had a difficult year. The former Top 100 prospect was slapped with a 50 game suspension this spring, then broke his hand while throwing batting practice. The result is a lost season. Bickford only recently returned to the mound, and he’ll use the rest of the season to try and set himself up fresh for 2018. #18 (-5) Cody Ponce, RHP, A+ Carolina, Age 23. 100.2 IP, 21 BB, 83 K, 3.49 ERA, 1.34 WHIP - A+ 318 points - 53 of 61 ballots Ponce is a frustrating prospect. He often shows flashes of brilliance, followed by bouts of mediocrity. While he limits walks, he has been too hittable. It all makes for a solid, but uninspiring stat line. It will be interesting to see if he adjusts as he moves to AA. #19 (+5) Kodi Medeiros, LHP, A+ Carolina, Age 21. 103 IP, 40 BB, 104 K, 5.07 ERA, 1.26 WHIP - A+ 306 points - 46 of 61 ballots Medeiros’ return to high A ball has been an improvement over 2016, but his numbers are not anything special. His 104 strikeouts and 1.26 WHIP are nice, and the improved walk rate is great. But Kodi continues to struggle with his command at times - as displayed by 17 hit batters to go with 40 walks. Medeiros has done well against lefties this year, but has been hit hard by right handers. Some speculate that he will be moved to the bullpen in the future. #20 (-10) Marcos Diplan, RHP, A+ Carolina, Age 20. 97.1 IP, 56 BB, 99 K, 5.55 ERA, 1.58 WHIP - A+ 285 points - 44 of 61 ballots Diplan picked right up where he left last year - walking too many batters. The man sports an electric fastball and slider, which allows him to strike out a lot of hitters. However, he has not developed reliable secondary offerings. The club will likely keep Diplan in the rotation as long as possible, but a move to the bullpen could be in the cards if he doesn’t develop better command and a third pitch. #21 (+15) Trey Supak, RHP, A+ Carolina, Age 20. 41 IP, 10 BB, 53 K, 1.76 ERA, 0.76 WHIP - A- 58.1 IP, 21 BB, 50 K, 4.78 ERA, 1.27 WHIP - A+ 276 points - 48 of 61 ballots Supak shot up the BF.net boards with an impressive showing at low A Wisconsin this spring. His promotion to Carolina has tempered the enthusiasm for the big right hander, as he has been dogged by gopher balls this summer. Still, Supak is an intriguing prospect that is just finally starting to show his stuff (he barely three 100 innings of work in his first three years of pro ball). #22 (+10) Troy Stokes Jr., OF, AA Biloxi, Age 21. 364 ABs, .250 BA, .344 OBP, .789 OPS, 21 SB - A+ 41 ABs, .317 BA, .408 OBP, .994 OPS, 2 SB - AA 252 points - 33 of 61 ballots After four years, people are finally getting on the Troy Stokes Jr. bandwagon. The notice taken has coincided with the addition of some power to Stokes’ game (16 HRs already this year). Stokes has always sported a solid OBP (.361 lifetime), but the power surge he has put on display has forced everyone to take note going forward. #23 (-5) Jacob Nottingham, C, AA Biloxi, Age 22. 267 ABs, .217 BA, .324 OBP, .683 OPS - AA 240 points - 39 of 61 ballots Not a lot exciting about Nottingham’s second stint at Biloxi. While his walk rate has improved, he’s struggled to hit with authority for a second consecutive season. In his defense, Milwaukee has pushed Nottingham, and kept him focused on improving his defense. But with another season at Biloxi potentially in the mix, Nottingham will need to improve his offensive numbers to remain a top prospect. #24 (+2) Mario Feliciano, C, A- Wisconsin, Age 18. 328 ABs, .241 BA, .309 OBP, .642 OPS - A- 200 points - 39 of 61 ballots The Brewers were aggressive in placing the 18 year old Feliciano at full season ball for 2017. The youngster has held his own, but his numbers have faded as the year has gone on - perhaps the result of the grind of pro ball. Still, there is a lot to like about Feliciano. He sports good power potential, a strong arm and a decent eye at the plate. #25 (new) KJ Harrison, C, Rookie Helena, Age 20. 77 ABs, .325 BA, .435 OBP, .915 OPS - A- 175 points - 35 of 61 ballots Our 25th man is this year’s 3rd round pick, KJ Harrison. So far, so good. Harrison was drafted as a catcher, but he did not catch much in college. The Brewers will give the young man every chance to stay behind the dish, as his bat would play well at the position. If not, he would likely need to move to 1B, where he might not hit enough. The rest 26. Taylor Williams - 169 points 27. Jordan Yamamoto - 143 28. Caden Lemons - 75 29. Carlos Herrera - 73 30. Bubba Derby - 58 31. Larry Ernesto - 37 32. Jon Perrin - 35 33. Josh Pennington - 30 34. Gabriel Garcia - 25 35. Demi Orimoloye - 24 36t. Nate Griep - 19 36t. Jorge Lopez - 19 38. Payton Henry - 18 39. Michael Reed - 14 40. Aaron Wilkerson - 13 41. Wei-Chung Wang - 9 42. Carlos Rodriguez - 8 43. Nick Ramirez - 7 44t. Zack Brown - 6 44t. Wes Wilson - 6 44t. Brendan Murphy - 6 47. Cooper Hummel - 5 48t. Kyle Wren - 4 48t. Nathan Kirby - 4 48t. Dallas Carroll - 4 51t. Black Allemond - 3 51t. Ernesto Martinez - 3 51t. Clint Coulter - 3 54t. Tristan Archer - 2 54t. Quentin Costa Torres - 2 54t. Nate Off - 2 57t. Adrian Houser - 1 57t. Gilbert Lara - 1 57t. Tyrone Taylor - 1 57t. Zack Clark - 1 57t. Je’Von Ward - 1 All ages and stats are as of August 9, 2017. Full voting thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=35581

My opinion is based on his minor league starts ever since he had been in Milwaukees system. You're right he does have a ton of upside. But he also throws a ton of pitches to get his outs. It's a combination of him being a strikeout pitcher and him having awful control. You cannot have a starter who is consistently going 5 innings. In his time in Milwaukees system he has yet to have one start in which he lasted over six innings. Maybe he is on a pitch count but still. Not one time in almost 40 starts? That's a red flag to me. Add that to the fact that he has yet to develop an even average third pitch and to me that screams bullpen. I don't want him in the bulllen, although I think he'd have more success there. But I think that what his skill set is best suited for. LOL when we acquired him he had 7 AA starts to finish the year. 2 of those starts he went 7 innings in 92 and 99 pitches. Another start he went 6 innings in 87 pitches (102 pitches puts him at 7 innings). 3 other starts he went 5 innings in 73 (102 pitches for 7 innings), 81 (101 pitches for 6.1 innings), 99. The other start would be 101 pitches for 5 innings. Last year he had 25 total starts and 10 of those he went 6 innings. He did that in 89, 87, 85, 103 (4h, 2bb), 100, 96, 88, 89, 90, 99. There's another X number of starts where he's going 6 innings if given the pitch count needed. You continuing to say he consistently goes 5 innings is like me saying a guy who went 0-4 "must" have made weak or no contact that game....it's confirmed by simply looking at the box score number. The foundation for your beliefs about Hader are based on nonsense and zero factual evidence. As I started earlier, it's not about innings pitched it's about the number of pitches and if you go look at the number of pitches for Hader over the past few years you'll see he's typically going to be between 6-7 innings if he's given that 100 limit, which MLB pitchers are. Again, go look at Nelson's game logs and pitch counts and let me know what you see. Nobody knows if Hader will be a very good rotation arm or stays in the pen as a dominant closer. But MANY scouts said coming into this year he's likely a rotation arm. He did say 'over six innings' - so he is technically correct. Josh never threw more than six innings last year. I also think saying someone's beliefs are 'nonsense' is harsh and demeaning. He stated his opinion and added evidence - and you refuted it with your own evidence. Fine. But i's not necessary to demean another person or his/her opinion in the process. Counter them, say you disagree, say you don't like that person's use of the data - but treat them with a little respect.

Thanks everyone for participating in our poll. All the votes will be tabulated and results posted in a few days. Thanks again.

Former major leaguer Don Baylor has died at age 68 after a battle with myeloma. Baylor was the AL MVP in 1979, and he would later be the hitting coach for the Milwaukee Brewers (1990-91). https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/08/don-baylor-passes-away.html

Welcome to the board, HotCorner35. It's nice to see so many new people involved. Thanks for playing along. Hope you have enjoyed doing this.

What? No Sean Nolin?

I lived near Denver for several years (just moved back to Wisconsin in May). I didn't go to a ton of games, but I can throw out the following suggestions: 1. Go to Union Station. It's a few blocks from the stadium and beautiful. Even if you just want to look around, it's great. Depending on where you are staying, you can always take the train to the game. Works great. Union Station has a variety of bars and shops - you can even get a brat there. It can be pricey, but it's pretty cool to see. They just renovated in a couple of years ago. 2. As noted by Raw Biz, you can go to Swankys. It's a Wisconsin bar, just a block from the stadium. They even have a Badger flag flying in front of it. Food is decent and it's not too expensive - and you'd be among friends. 3. If you like craft beers you can walk to a half-dozen (or more) breweries within a mile or so from the stadium. Wynkoop, Great Divide, Tivoli, Breckenride, Epic and a handful of other places are all in the area. It's very easy to just wander from place to place and try beer. Otherwise, depending on where you are staying, there are tons of breweries - large and small - in Denver. 4. Lots of shops and bars and restaurants over in the Market and Larimer Streets area (about 1/2 mile from the stadium). If you just want to wander around and do a little shopping it's pretty cool. 5. I'd recommend the Stranahan's whiskey distillery tour. It's not near the park - but it's downtown, and very fun (assuming you're interested in that kind of thing). 6. Don't be afraid to eat at Denver food trucks. They are pretty amazing. 7. If you've never seen a concert at Red Rocks, it's amazing. Best place ever for a concert. Otherwise, if you're just looking for Denver area activities, it's really a great place for stuff to do. I'd suggest checking out http://www.westword.com - it's sort of the local paper for cultural events. There are tons of concerts in Denver (most outdoors), lots of festival type stuff, beer festivals, etc.

Well, I'd say it's 100% clear that they can't get anything for him unless they pay some of his contract. So, what do you want to sell Dubon, Erceg or Ray for? $10,000,000? $20,000,000? I'm seriously asking. Not trying to be a jerk. For me, I'm just a fan, it's not my money. I don't want any of those guys being traded for Verlander just so our owner can save money in a season where payroll is down fairly significantly. I think it's totally a fair question. What would the team sell? I guess it comes down to depth. We've lost Cordell, but I'm thinking an OF is probably the best thing we could send that would knock off $10M or $20M or whatever. You're initial group of guys (Taylor, Coulter, Jungmann, Lopez, Wren) are very fringy - but one or two of them might have appeal as to Detroit. Remember, right now, they need quality as well as quantity. One of them might end up as a major leaguer with a change of scenery. But I think a good - but not great prospect - such as Dubon or Trent Clark would do the trick. Let's say Verlander and $20M in exchange for Dubon or Clark, and Wren and Lopez. Detroit gets an okay prospect or two (nothing great, but still with potential) and unloads $45M in commitments. Thought process: Let's say Verlander is a 3.0 WAR pitcher (he's at 2.2 in both bWAR and fWAR). If he can maintain that for a couple of more years - that's about 7.0 WAR for the rest of his contract. With 1 WAR equalling about $8M - that means Verlander is worth about $56M. He's owed about $65M - meaning he's overpaid by about $10M. A guy like Dubon or Clark (plus a couple of throw ins) is probably worth about $10M. Thus we take back about $20M to equal the entire thing. You might think we need a premium to get Verlander - but if that was the case, we'd just have claimed him and hoped Detroit let us have him. Another idea might involve Verlander for Phillips - but I think Phillips has more value than Dubon or Clark (my opinion). Maybe we get something else back or involve more money ... just a thought. As noted, I think a huge issue is that Detroit isn't going to cough up Verlander for a low level talent. It's a terrible PR move. Perhaps it's more prospects - and then more money sent back (say Dubon and Clark - plus a couple of throw ins - for Verlander and $25M or $30M). Again, just a thought. Perhaps I'm thinking to analytically -- perhaps dealing Verlander is just not going to happen without Detroit really getting something good. There's an emotional element to a deal like this that would be hard for Detroit. Turning Verlander's value into actual dollars might not work for the Tigers - and it just might not be feasible in the end. I want to stress that I'm not advocating for this deal. It's just an idea. Having Verlander would be really interesting, but I don't know if I think it would be worth it. But he would interesting to have. His workhorse ability in the rotation would be welcome - and he might really thrive moving the NL at this stage.

I think if you take on his entire salary you're not giving up anything of value. Just a non-prospect.

Verlander has cleared waivers. The Brewers could have claimed him, and risked being stuck with $65M salary for 2017-19. Now Detroit can negotiate with every team. The big caveat is that Milwaukee is probably one of the few teams that can absorb Verlander's salary. So many clubs are just maxed out on salary this year - and $9M more in 2017 is a lot (not to mention the salaries for 2018-19). If the Crew did want Verlander - and he was willing to come here - we should get Detroit to kick in at least $10-15M, and send them a non-prospect.

A couple of things about relievers ... they generally don't rate high in grand scheme of prospects, so they are not usually that big of a deal with regard to be eligible or not (again, that's usually). Second thing, with pitchers in general -- I have stated that I will 'graduate' a player from eligibility if it's pretty obvious they are going to hit 50 IP sooner or later. So if Suter had been sitting at 40 IP when we did this poll, I would have just made him ineligible for the poll. If Hader is sitting in the 40 IP region at season's end, we'll seriously consider just graduating him - especially if he's pretty much a lock to make the roster coming out of spring training. We had this issue with Jungmann and Cravy a few years ago. They were close to 50 IP, and I left them eligible. Because they were close to 50 IP, some people just didn't vote for them. (funny thing was that while Jungmann graduated, Cravy never did until the following year - so everyone assuming someone was going to play a lot was false). After that situation, I said I'd graduate guys if they were close. Same thing goes with hitters. If Lewis Brinson was at 120 ABs, I wouldn't hesitate to make him ineligible. I agree that the relievers are the oddest things. A guy could spend the entire season on the roster and not reach 50 IP. But I think that with any player we just have to play it by ear.

I know that the best case scenario for Hader is that he becomes a starter. However, I suspect that the club might use him as a reliever going forward. I have no proof or anything - just a hunch. Hader's fastball/slider combo would be devastating in the bullpen. He can forget about trying to throw his change up - which doesn't seem to want to ever really come around. The club will let him focus on the things he does well - and let him be really good at that. Another reason Hader might be in the bullpen is by his own decision. Perhaps he just understands his limitations, and feels the bullpen is the best place for him. He wouldn't be the first guy to go to the bullpen and find that it's really his destiny. Again, just speculation.

Until Suter proves he can't be effective, I'm all for just running the guy out there every fifth day. He wouldn't be the first soft-tossing lefty to find success (although the highway is littered with loads of these guys who failed). My gut says that the league will catch up to him - it's just hard to survive throwing an 86 mph fastball on a regular basis. There's just not much room for error. But hey, like I said, who knows. I'd just keep giving him the ball as long as he's effective. Suter is a smart guy (went to Harvard), and he's not a kid. Perhaps he's just more advanced in his ability to sequence pitches, keep hitters off balance and more of the nuances of pitching.

Regarding Garza, I've considered just dumping him in the past simply to clear out a spot and let our young guys have a chance to pitch. However, I also have said that if he can have a solid first half of 2017, he might have some value. Fast forward, and he's done exactly that. Has he been great? No. Has he been solid - yes. For $5M, he's a good deal in 2018. If not in Milwaukee, then somewhere else. Assuming he finishes the season pitching like he has been thus far, we'd be foolish to not pick up the option. If we ultimately decide we want other players in the rotation next year, we could trade him (we wouldn't get a ton - but we could get something). Keeping him would probably be the prudent move. It offers protection against injuries (think about it - four of our starting pitchers this year - Anderson, Guerra, Woodruff, Peralta - have been on the DL this year).