Well, Pic I think I've talked with you on the badgernation board. And I've just spent the last 10 hours working through my stats for my M.S. project including a couple hours with one of my professors....I'm pretty much convinced that I hate stats, specifically how to write code for something that is nested and why GLM will give you an ANOVA table, while MIXED won't. Why not just give me the dang ANOVA table either way, it's the same table. And MSgroups that go up to T...not pretty, for this little brain. There's more, but I'm starting to rant. I want to understand what you're saying, but I may have to pick up this conversation when my brain is back to normal OR when I quit for the night.