MNBrew

I'm not sure Griffey would take a 4th OF deal. If he would, it might not be a bad idea. I'm pretty sure I like the idea. JB12, I'll usually find myself agreeing with your points of view. However, Griffey hit .250 w/ 17 HRs & 70 RBIs last year. Nixon couldn't break into the bigs from AAA. A trade of Suppan or Hall (or Cameron, I suppose) would probably be necessary to clear payroll to add KG jr., too, based on Mark A's & Melvin's comments this weekend. On the other hand, we also have enough "solid clout" veterans (Kendall, Cameron, now Hoffman) that all it might take is a phone call from a couple of those guys to convince Griffey or someone of that stature that Milwaukee is the right type of place and the right type of team to sign with. An incentive-heavy deal might do the trick.

Right, but almost half the time it's without getting a hit. The guy can take a walk so well. But he can't hit.

This is yet another reason I'd prefer having Cirillo over Counsell, even though at this point Cirillo's retired (even though Cirillo is only an emergency SS, Hall can also play there). Cirillo was a pretty solid PH. Even when his numbers weren't as good, he wasn't nearly as offensively inept as Counsell.

The problem is mainly that Counsell just plain doesn't hit for the most part. Defense is great. Leadership is great. Eye at the plate is great. He has a few clutch moments but most of the time he's a total liability at the plate. Iribarren could learn other IF positions and the team wouldn't be much worse off at all.

I hope this doesn't sound bad to say, but I think the super-obvious is being missed. You're not pinch-hitting most of the time for other position players -- it's for the pitcher, which happens a ton. Who they'd replace in the field often isn't an issue. The Kapler non-pursuit is well-documented. Kapler wanted more regular PT and a chance to start. The Brewers couldn't offer that. Since other teams could -- and did -- it the Brewers' pursuing Kapler for a bench role was moot.

To take on Winn's salary, you'd probably have to move Cameron at this point. On the other hand, as much as the Brewers like Corey Hart (and they should!), with the other strong young players coming up, maybe he's one piece they could move. Plenty of other ways to skin this cat, I suppose, but that's the thought I keep coming back to.

While the Counsell signing seems a likely inevitability, I'm not fond of it. The guy is a banjo hitter, and I use "hitter" loosely. He watches a lot of pitches but still can't hit. Decent OBP means he takes a few more walks. But the whole 2nd half last year proved the guy just can't do much at the plate at all. Aside from defensive and clubhouse positives, I'm not sure why we'd want him regardless of the price. Good dude but he's lousy.

Common points and a few random thoughts so far: 1. Kendall's offense went south badly last year. 2. Kendall's defense was among the best in the league. It wasn't that his arm improved. It was his overall mechanics. If you'll recall... 3. Kendall's serious work on footwork with his dad last winter paid HUGE dividends. 4. #3 proves mechanical refinements can make a bigger difference than age (though nothing is a given either way) IF the rights efforts are made in effective ways 5. Brewers pitchers totally loved pitching to Kendall last year -- a point which to me is highly significant and you just flat out can't quantify no matter how hard you try 6. Mike Rivera's production in so few ABs was amazing but not automatically likely to sustain over a much larger chunk of playing time 7. Mike Rivera is only 2 years younger than Kendall -- both guys are past their chronologically stereotypical primes If Kendall can put some of the same caliber of effective work into his offense this offseason like he did to his defense last winter, even a .020 BA difference & a .030 OBP difference would do wonders. A .030 BA & .040 OBP would be huge. And Kendall's a total pro. I wouldn't put it past him that this could happen, regardless of any age/stats analysis. And even if that doesn't happen, I still really like the Kendall/Rivera catching team the Brewers have. That said, if Pudge would be willing to come to Milwaukee to share PT w/ Kendall (seems highly unlikely unless someone gets hurt, namely Kendall or Rivera), I think that'd be a good thing if the $$ is within reason.

Hard not to think that if they can sign Sheets or someone else, McClung's not the one who should be bounced from the rotation. (bullpen phone rings...) "Stan, it's Ken. Get Suppan up."

The only reason Pedro gets much hype from the past couple years is because he was property of the Mets. In NY, big name = assumption of quality & tons of headlines. One loose equivalent could be Mark Prior, whose minor-league/NRI contract with the Padres in the past 48 hours hardly made a ripple. If Prior's property of the Mets or Yankees, the story is as big or bigger than the Pedro story. If Pedro pitched for the Pirates, Royals, Mariners, etc. last year, no one pays his free agency hardly any mind. For that matter, he probably also wouldn't have this absurd concept of his market value, either.

One of my dad's best tips on the golf course, where micromanaging every element of the swing becomes all too natural, is, "let the big muscles do the work." In other words, the body knows how to do this. Get out of its way and let it do it. It was so cool when Braun was finally healthy enough in those few clutch end-of-September moments to let his talent take over and win those couple ballgames. That's how memories get made -- not micromanaging all the little muscles. The whole state won't forget those HRs anytime soon.

I like the gist of your point, davego, but I give it one more twist: "Team concept" approach to hitting makes total sense. I don't agree with the idea of a total team "theme" to hitting, at least not as far as always making the same play on certain counts, etc. But I love the idea of a "team first" approach to hitting -- not always playing small ball, per se, but always doing absolutely whatever it takes to help the team succeed. Blending the strengths of the players' "natural" approaches and the savviness to consistently take a smart approach and do the "right" thing when needed would elevate our offense to an entirely different level of effectiveness and potency. The Brewers lost a lot of their effectiveness and so many guys were trying to win the game with one swing. Trying to "play hero" often renders one incapable of actually doing so. See the ball. Don't swing at balls. Put a good swing on the ball and drive it where it's pitched. If only the Brewers didn't collectively forget how to do that the last month of the season!

What style is that? Sensible & logical? Sorry. I liked Yost. But I had to ask in that way given his propensity for moves that made little sense.

Gabe Gross' time in TB isn't over just yet. He signed a one-year deal today, avoiding arby. The Gabe Count in TB's OF remains at 2.

He missed all of 2007 because he chose to manage rather than play. Your statement suggests that he missed '07 because of injury. Kapler was mostly healthy in the 2nd half until he tore that muscle in his shoulder in the last few weeks. It's not Kapler's fault Braun wouldn't come out of the lineup even though he was hurt, Cameron got way hot and carried the club offensively in August, and Hart's slump only became magnified when the rest of the team's offense went in the crapper starting with that Mets series in early October. . . . Not a lot of PT was available for Kapler for most of that stretch, although you could argue he should've been playing more in RF whilst Hart's bat went frigid.

I like the deal proposed elsewhere a day or so ago: Cameron & Suppan for Swisher & Igawa Fielder for Buchholz & Ellsbury re-sign Sheets

I'm right with you, esp. on your 2nd idea. Tweaked from an earlier post... - Sheets re-signs in Milwaukee, (costs MIL $$) - Brewers take on ALL of Swisher's & Kei Igawa's contract because NY takes Suppan in addition to Cameron, too, (saves MIL some good $$) - Brewers trade Prince for a motherlode of top pitching talent (I keep thinking of a Seattle deal or also the Angels), & (saves MIL some $$) - Abreu gets a bit real and comes to MIL at real (not NYY) market value (costs MIL $$) Someone also suggested this in another thread and I think I like it even better: - Fielder + Suppan for Buchholz, Ellsbury, & Lowell - Cameron for Swisher - money still available for Sheets OF: Braun ®, Ellsbury (L), Hart ® IF: Lowell ®, Hardy ®, Weeks ®, Swisher (S) C: Kendall ® bench: Hall ®, Lamb (L), Rivera ®, 2 OF (Kapler ® -- my dream idea -- and Gwynn or Nixon (both L)) Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Buchholz, Parra, Bush 'Pen: Hoffman, McClung, Villanueva, Riske, Stetter, Julio, Swindle/Dillard/DiFelice/etc. Similar L/R improvement to the above, more bench depth, less cost, and still some $$ to possibly sign Sheets. That's quite solid and set up well for the future! I also wonder if you could get Garrett Anderson for cheap as a potential 4th starting OF (and if it'd be worth it).

Then you graciously take Kei Igawa back in return as well and shake hands on the deal. :-)

Tons of big "ifs," but after reading this and other threads tonight, I kept on thinking... It just may be sensible to do a Cameron/Swisher deal IF the following things also fell into play (yeah, pipe dreams, I know): - Sheets re-signs in Milwaukee, - Brewers take on ALL of Swisher's contract because NY takes Suppan, too, & - Brewers trade Prince for a motherlode of top pitching talent (I keep thinking of a Seattle deal or also the Angels) - Abreu gets a bit real and comes to MIL at market value OF: Braun, Hart, Abreu IF: Hall/Lamb, Hardy, Weeks, Swisher C: Kendall Bench: OF: Kapler (I'm dreaming) & Gwynn or Nixon; IF: Hall/Lamb & Iribarren (?); C: Rivera Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, Bush, McClung Bullpen: Hoffman, Riske, Villanueva, Stetter, Julio, Coffey, Dillard/DiFelice Somewhere in there also are some very strong pitchers from the Fielder deal. That roster doesn't suck, to be sure, and is quite capable of winning the division if everyone performs at least reasonably within expectations.

RCC, I know I'm about 2 weeks later in this thread to respond, but here's where I think you were missing the boat at the time you wrote this: I don't think DM tells fibs to the media, not at all. On the other hand, like any sensible GM, what he says to the public vs. what he says internally and what he thinks are surely different. He's not just gonna come out in the paper saying "I think it's time we could go out and sign Sheets back again." He's gonna keep playin' it cool and let the market itself start to tell Ben that the Brewers may indeed be his best option. Draft picks = rebuilding? I don't think so. You always want as many high draft picks as you can get. If you still have many strong players when the young guys are finally proving they can cut it in the bigs, you have the choice of which positive assets to deal. If the big leaguers are stinkin' it up, you have some legit hope to bank on. I still think DM's one of the best GMs we could have.

I'm fine with that, too. And I'll just bet Doug Melvin's had that thought many times over. It was Melvin who made the contacts w/ Casey Close re: Sheets during that 15-day moratorium period after the World Series, and it was Melvin who said the Brewers indeed were interested in having him back but understood Sheets' interest in exploring the market.

Funny thing is, as of a month ago, Melvin was interested in Wood & Fuentes but not really in Hoffman. Then Hoffman became the best option after the calendar turned to January and Melvin's preferences changed. In other words, as the winter progresses, things can easily change and often do. As the prices drop, that's not necessarily bad.

Here's a good Buster Olney blog entry on ESPN.com about the 22 Type A/B free agents who turned down arbitration. He mentions Ben Sheets as one of the 4-5 biggest names in this "purgatory" that aren't getting deals done because no one wants to surrender their top pick. It may just be enough to get Sheets to reconsider the Brewers in his future, even if it's just a short, incentive-heavy deal. In the short run, the Brewers could stand to be big winners here. And if Sheets can stay healthy & productive, in the long run so could Sheets. Derek Lowe is much older but still quite good. Otherwise, I'd be a whole lot more excited about Sheets and his chances for success than about any half-decent remaining FA pitcher, such as Oliver Perez, Jon Garland, Paul Byrd, or Randy Wolf. It's also telling that of those 22 FAs, only 6 Type A guys have signed -- and 4 of 'em w/ NY teams. Of the 8 total who have signed, other than Raul Ibanez, the remaining 7 have signed with an NY, LA, or Chi team. Shows where the biggest money is, I suppose, as well as perhaps the greatest value in splashy, big-coverage Hot Stove headlines.

So that's 8 solid starters and a still-loaded bullpen. If you're Doug Melvin, do you consider making an offer of Fielder for Buchholz, Masterson, & Lowell (most all salary pd. by Boston)? It would be similar to the Beckett deal in which the Sox got Lowell as well since taking him on created the salary relief the Marlins needed.

The Brewers already have an $8.5M bench player in Hall who, out of necessity, will see plenty of starts at 3B. If they were to acquire Winn and his $8.25M salary, I highly doubt it'd be to come off the bench. Of the two, I'd prefer Winn over Cameron. I think the only way the Brewers trade for Winn is if they trade another of their starting OFs. It won't be Braun, they're reluctant to trade Hart, and they've already tried to trade Cameron this offseason.