MNBrew

Two points: 1. I seriously don't get the love for Chase Headley. I think people are generalizing the quality his 2012 standout year over the whole of his career. Outside of that year, he's never exceeded 13 HR, 64 RBI, or hit above .280. He's a switch hitter, but so what? That means nothing if the results are below average. He's a better defender, sure, but 3B defense wasn't exactly a problem area last year and is deservedly WAY down the list of matters worth addressing this offseason. For as badly as Ramirez slumped in the 2nd half last year, overall he still had a better year in all respects offensively than Headley. He's nowhere near the player everyone seems to think he is and I think the notion of the Brewers going after him this winter -- let alone the presumption that he'd be an overall upgrade at 3B over Ramirez -- is sheer folly. 2. All that said, what no one's mentioned in this thread so far is this idea: I could see Ramirez being a potentially decent candidate to move to 1B, in which case signing a guy like Headley to play 3B isn't as ridiculous. Braun to 1B seems foolish to me because he wasn't good at all defensively as a 3B, and he's solid in the OF, and the glaring issue in the OF is Davis, not Braun. Ramirez isn't stellar defensively but is a solid defensive corner IF, so it'd be far less of a drastic move because the positions are more similar.

The bullpen may well have been the Brewers' biggest difference-maker in 2011. Once K-Rod was acquired & took over the 8th inning, Saito, Hawkins, K-Rod, & Axford basically turned it into a 5-6 inning game every night. I wish they'd not gotten tight on the coin when it came to keeping Hawk & Saito for 2012.

I realize its only been one year with Garza but now with Peralta, Lohse, Gallardo, Fiers, Nelson, Thornburg, as options there are going to be two capable starters, probably young guys, who will be in the bullpen next year. We finally had internal options for the rotation and we didn't even use them. Melvin's preference for vets over young guys is not a secret and I think in some cases its hurt the franchise. I agree that Melvin's penchant for vets over young guys hasn't always seemed like the best way to go. A few of those moves definitely panned out, some didn't, and some were a wash. I still think the Lohse signing was a coup because what we had was falling apart at the seams... All the young guys we were counting on other than Peralta (who still took over a half-year to prove he was worth waiting out) were crapping out throughout ST -- Rogers lost all velocity and eventually any hopes of being in the bigs; Fiers was terrible in ST and, the start of the year, just as he'd ended the previous year in the bigs and still pitched horribly in AAA when they sent him down; Thornburg didn't pitch well enough to earn a MLB rotation spot, nor at the time did Burgos or Nelson. Gallardo was decent but not great, and Estrada was no given yet.... I thought the Lohse signing was a blessing because the Brewers were facing entering the season with next to nothing in the rotation in terms of reliability beyond Gallardo, which would've totally sunk them. With how the rest of 2013 went, when about everything that could go wrong did, the Lohse signing didn't guarantee 'em a playoff spot, but it did help a team in need of rotation stability & leadership, which to my thinking made it a very worthwhile signing. (I'd sure love to see Gallardo pitch & conduct himself as a leader more than a guy who follows the other leaders.) Re: the rotation now & going forward, while Thornburg arguably could've started this year, he's no given for next year due to his injury situation never noticeably improving -- the whole rest of the year, no answers or evidence of progress. Fiers needed to get his game together in AAA again, which thankfully he did. Nelson, for however strong he looked at the end of last year & in AAA this year, proved in the 2nd half that he's not as MLB-ready yet as many of us thought he'd be. It got to the point that pretty much any appearance was a losing proposition for him. That tells me he's not an automatic "should be in the rotation now" guy going into 2015. If he's got Peralta-like stuff and is on a Peralta-like upward ascent, then he should start showing notable improvement next year. But anything he gets in the bigs next year, he still has to earn. Re: your other point about promising prospects at the upper levels, you've got a solid point. There seems to be a considerable gap. However, that doesn't necessarily mean everything. Guys like Cain & Escobar got enough MLB playing time with the Brewers that many weren't convinced at all that they'd realize their potential. Given that Cain was knocking on the MLB door at the end of 2010, ending that year with an hardly stellar call-up showing, it's really taken him 'til this year to turn himself into a healthy & very reliable regular.... not unlike Mickey Brantley in the '08 Sabathia trade.... Both those guys were decent prospects but hardly the no-brainers to become the types of MLB regulars they are now -- and it took 'em several years and multiple trips to the minors (not Escobar, but Cain & Brantley) to become that. Similarly, Escobar hit well at the end of '09, enough to punch Hardy's ticket out of town, but hit really badly in 2010, enough so that many doubted the validity of his 2009 -- killer glove but lousy hitting & production, terrible plate discipline, etc. Fast-forward to now and we'd sure love to have Cain or Aoki back, and Escobar sure looks a whole lot better than Segura did this year. Those 3 KC guys plus Brantley are good reminders -- heck, as is Jeffress!!! -- to all of us (Melvin and any FO guy on any team, for that matter) that sometimes the best thing to do is have faith in the young guys and give them the time to develop. At the same time, for every Brantley or Cain or Odorizzi, there's a LaPorta, a Will Inman, a Cole Gillespie, or even Brett Lawrie who, for one reason or another, doesn't live up to the potential over the long-term that merited his inclusion as a top prospect in a trade for a difference-making veteran. The majority of Melvin's moves haven't totally emptied the farm system like many suggest, though obviously the two SP acquisitions in the winter of 2010-11 did skim the cream off the top, leaving a seemingly flat & uninteresting remainder, as we heard endlessly at the time.... However, keep in mind that that MLB-worst farm system remainder included the Gennetts, Davises, Thornburgs, Kintzlers, Peraltas, Maldonados, etc., who are all integral and generally successful members of the current MLB roster -- not so putrid after all, just seemed to be lacking in blue chippers.

3 things: 1. The Brewers were also 71-55, which is less likely a fluke for that length of time than the 11-25 crash they finished with. In other words, for most of the season, they WERE a team that played well enough to earn the record and the place in the standings they had. That it lasted that long isn't a fluke, at least not in my opinion. Much as you felt they were a lousy team that overachieved, I thought all along they had the potential to be the team they proved to be -- from well before spring training opened ..... The bottom can fall out just as if not more easily than a Cardinals- or Pirates-like hot streak to the end..... To say you felt they were that poor of a team all along, especially when it took a 11-25 stretch to close the season to get to that barely-over-.500 record, is probably still fair but seems a bit too convenient. I still contend that they're more like the team they were for the first 78% of the season than they were for the last 22%. But the team slump was bad and contagious and the offense was the main culprit, which we all know. Almost all teams have some weaknesses, even blatantly fundamental ones, which leads to the next point... 2. By your logic, if Melvin's a failure as a GM because his team had flaws and his approach resulted in the Brewers missing the playoffs again, the majority of GMs also are failures, and most to a worse extent than Melvin. There's no perfect way to build a team that's actually attainable every year by any team, at least not realistically, and for reasons that are as varying as they are obvious. 3. If you look at the roster, Melvin didn't just throw together a bunch of overpaid vets: - Weeks was overpaid, although his 4-year extension was fair market and well-earned at the time he signed it. The sudden huge drop in production in his prime years probably couldn't have even been projected by most. Injuries and rapid decline cemented his downturn and the resulting badness of his contract. - Ramirez turned out to be overpaid based on how he produced, but his track record prior to his injury-affected 2013 gave no indication he'd slump that badly as he did in the 2nd half. However, after that... - Lohse isn't overpaid, especially for his production. - Ditto Garza. The improvement in the Brewers' rotation was well worth the investment in those two. - Ditto K-Rod. - Ditto Gomez, period. - Ditto Lucroy. - Ditto Braun, who gets the injury exception/pass from me for now but whose remaining contract years now are cause for more justified concern if he doesn't heal & rebound fully. - Overbay & Reynolds were obviously questionable moves from Day 1, but they sure weren't overpaid. Weeks was clearly overpaid. ... And before they acquired Broxton & Parra, that was it for big contracts or veterans of any consequence (okay, Estrada, whose epic HR rate by far topped his career rate, killed his numbers, hurt the team, and knocked him from the rotation -- but not an overpay if he'd kept his production in line with his 2012 & 2013 work, which was a more likely occurrence).

Torts wasn't saying to wait to see what others do before the Brewers decide what they should do. Re-read what you quoted from his post: In essence, "Why decide that the Brewers are goners in 2015 before the 2014 World Series is over and other teams make their offseason moves?" And it's a very valid point: • Theoretically, the Brewers weren't supposed to be playoff contenders. But until they imploded -- after spending 150 days in 1st place (you can't dismiss that, regardless of how it happened) -- the Brewers had the division lead and a playoff spot all but in hand. • The Cardinals weren't playing like anything great until August.... Of course, then they started playing like the Cardinals. • The Pirates started playing great in mid-August, too, but only made the playoffs because the Brewers totally crapped the bed. • The Reds were supposed to be one of the division's best teams but were worse than the Brewers by a good bit and weren't a factor in the 2nd half at all. • The Cubs are still full of large promise, but until those guys start performing well enough in the bigs to make a difference in the standings, potential is only just that. Instead you went on again about your anticipation of the Brewers' approach to roster construction. And while it's a oft-stated concern on BF.net, it wasn't his point. The naysayers re: Melvin's approach might prove to be quite right. But until it happens, it's still merely conjecture based on personal biases.

Late to the party here, but.... I wanted Narron gone. The offensive collapse falls on him. The hitting wasn't good most of the 2nd half and became totally horrid the last 1.5 months of the season. Hitters continually failed to make adjustments. I'm not convinced any hitters truly got any better under his watch. Those are enough reasons for me. Braun's thumb injury is an issue but independent of the coaching. Garth Iorg has one of the coolest names in baseball, but I'm guessing he's gone because the IF defense wasn't good enough and that was his domain besides his role as 1B coach, which itself doesn't seem to involve much that can be screwed up. The bullpen had some issues for a while due to wearing down, but that's not Tunnell's fault. And the pitching overall, esp. the starters (except Estrada while he was in the rotation and Nelson), was pretty darn respectable -- so no reason to can Kranitz. I don't believe that Sedar is this generation's version of Larry Haney -- who, along with Andy Etchebarren, indeed was Harry Dalton's eyes/ears in the clubhouse per reports at the time he was fired in Bando's post-Trebelhorn housecleaning. I'm not sure Jerry Narron did anything that merits firing. Ditto Shelby (OF defensive positioning was, I believe, a strength) or Mike Guerrero. I like that Roenicke is staying. I think he's done far more good than bad (in spite of the oft-stated opinions on this board that he does everything wrong/stupid and isn't adequate at a single thing he does), he has something to prove, plus he's got a hot seat under him if things go poorly. . . . And I think Melvin's one of baseball's best GMs, realizes the flaws of the current roster and its construction AND his role in that, and is quite capable of having a solid plan to fix the team's weaknesses. I agree big-time with the notion that the new coaches should be at least somewhat if not substantially younger. While he well could be back in MN depending on who's hired as manager, I'd love to see Tom Brunansky as the new hitting coach. The Twins' young hitters raved about his work with them while in the minors (previously) and their continued success in MN under him are two salient points in his favor.

I hope he makes Texas' club. The only thing that would make the move better is if the Brewers would get to face him a whole lot because this year he proved he's just not a very good pitcher.

I get the logic but I think it's backwards. Roenicke is already under contract. The Brewers don't have to state publicly that he's returning. They'd only need to announce if he's not.

I would think Gardy would try to bring his guys along with. Unfortunately that might mean Rick Anderson too...lol. Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting I'd want Gardy as our manager -- I'm not in the "fire Roenicke" camp -- only that I'd love to have Bruno as our hitting coach instead of Johnny Narron, under whose tutelage I'm not sure any of our hitters actually improved.

Also living in the Twin Cities, I think the Twins' improved offense had far more to do with Tom Bruanansky as their hitting coach than anything with Gardy. Bruno was someone who the young players raved about from AAA when they came up to the bigs. This year proved why. I'd LOVE to have Bruno as our new hitting coach.... as soon as we can get rid of the current one.

Most any pick they've made since Braun hasn't improved the team enough to put 'em in the playoffs, either. While I'd rather not have given up the pick, the fact is that the previous rotation was not very good and the presence of Lohse added a veteran arm that's helped greatly improve a rotation that needed substantial improvement -- right away, not 3-6 years hence following a draft pick IF the pick actually panned out.

Paul253, I'm not sure how the Brewers overpaid for Garza & Lohse, as you state they did. You may not like the contracts they signed, but these guys pitched pretty darn well and, most importantly toward your assertion that the Brewers are paying them more than they should've, did so for below-market value. I get that you wish they'd not signed those SPs to those contracts, that there are other guys you'd rather have invested time into earning those positions -- home-grown guys -- but that's not the same as overpaying relative to market value. Right now Jimmy Nelson's proven that he's no sure thing, as he's pitched increasingly worse the longer he was trotted out there. What will be interesting to find out is if he has a Peralta-esque ceiling to him, or if, over time, reaching Estrada levels of performance is something we'd eventually look upon favorably from him. His AAA numbers are killer and they provide plenty of promise, but his MLB numbers in a solid half-season are not comforting or promising at all.

He will if he want's a multi year deal. Not every player is going to want to sign for the biggest dollar amount. If that were true then why did Nelson Cruz turn down his QO last off season and why did Morales do the same? The answer is simple really they wanted multi year deal contract not just a one year contract where they would be in the same boat the following year. This is the reason why Aram will turn down the QO. There is also more risk for the player to just sign one year deals as they go because the next season they may not find anyone interested in them. Ramirez will sign for less per year for a longer termed contract. You cited Nelson Cruz & Kendrys Morales as guys who turned down QO's b/c they wanted multi-year deals. Well, they still only got 1-year deals, so I'm a bit lost on how that helps prove your point.

Part of the thing with Fiers in 2013 is that he was downright terrible throughout all of spring training, which reflected no improvement from the way his 2012 ended. That it carried over into the regular season is what made it so concerning. That said, I LOVE that Fiers has re-found his game and I've got pretty decent confidence in him going forward.

No, you missed the point. When Melvin had the money and the motivated owner he signed that kind of player to a horrible contract, I wasn't ignoring the reality of the situation. The point Louis made was that Melvin had been smart enough not to sign those deals which was only true because he hadn't the means or opportunity with the Brewers to do so. Melvin wouldn't stand his ground on guys like Lohse and Garza, Mark A went and got those guys and if Mark A wanted to sign a player to a 7 year $230 million deal are we really expected to believe Melvin would say no, or would he'd do what he's always done? It's not that he's smarter than that, it's simply that he hasn't had the opportunity to make that kind of mistake, but if Mark A wanted to do it, Melvin certainly wouldn't stand in his way. I don't want Mark A making baseball decisions for the Brewers, I'd like him to focus on the business side like increasing revenue streams and let the baseball people handle baseball. I don't a want a Jerry Jones situation and we're teetering on the edge of that lately. As I've point out numerous times over the last 8 years Melvin isn't a visionary, he's an extremely conservative reactionary GM. He has his strong suits but the end result of his regime has been death by a thousand paper cuts, he never assembles enough pitching, enough different types of hitters, or a manager willing to work outside of established protocols so the team keeps running back into the same issues year after year. No, I didn't miss your point. And I do agree that any owner needs to leave baseball personnel decisions to his baseball execs because often the owner's expertise is in business and they're ultimately still primarily baseball fans. . . . Your premise cites as part of its basis, as fact, a point which is not correct. You're putting causality for the Rangers signing on A-Rod on Melvin, saying HE had the money and a motivated owner. Hicks stepped in, negotiated the deal, and signed A-Rod. Melvin's opinion of the contract, for all practical purposes, was moot. Everyone would've loved to have added A-Rod. But Hicks overstepped his GM, negotiated with his buddy Scott Boras (who proved on multiple occasions to seemingly have Hicks under his spell), threw out absurd money, and in doing so made sure A-Rod had no real excuse to do anything other than to sign with Texas. You may recall that the Yankees were offering $16M/yr. Hicks blew them out of the water at $25M/yr, needlessly negotiating against no one and over-inflating the contract. You can't pin the responsibility/credit/blame for that on Melvin. And if an owner like Hicks is so determined to get "his" superstar that he'll overshoot the other leading offer on the table by over 50% without needing to go to those lengths, thus setting an absurd new high-water mark to the chagrin of most other owners, the objection of the GM would likely at best be duly noted but still ignored. . . . Hicks made that deal happen and then he fired Melvin later when A-Rod didn't do enough to be the franchise's savior. Perhaps I'm speculating a bit in my 2nd-to-last sentence. But your premise of Melvin's intentions is entirely speculative.

That is the most ridiculously paper thin justification of Melvin I've read... he didn't sign any mega contracts, which tend to work out horribly, simply because the Brewers couldn't possibly afford one of those contracts in the first place. Hooray for not doing something that wasn't even an option?Even though he did sign A-Rod to the first mega contract in baseball history on his way out in Texas... (Etc.) For as meticulous as you are in so many of your lengthy commentaries, Crew07, the bold-faced comment is blatantly incorrect. It was quite well-documented at the time that it was Tom Hicks, the Rangers' owner, who made the decision to overpay A-Rod so absurdly, and when A-Rod alone didn't prove to be enough to turn the franchise around by himself (in other words, when the team still wasn't stellar in spite of a now super-jacked payroll), Hicks fired Melvin. Melvin was merely Hicks' scapegoat. Quoting from Wikipedia (citations are for a T.R. Sullivan article on MLB.com and an Andrew Marchand article on ESPN.com, respectively), "Hicks made headlines across all MLB when he personally negotiated and signed then shortstop Alex Rodriguez to the biggest contract in MLB history at that time; a ten-year, $252 million deal at the December 2000 winter meetings.[18] He would later point to that contract as "one of his biggest regrets." You obviously dislike Melvin as the Brewers' GM and disagree most vehemently with his philosophy for building the team. But you discredit yourself by shading or ignoring certain facts to make your point.

If they can manage wins in these last 2 games against Pittsburgh, they're not out of it yet. They can't totally give up until they're mathematically out or essentially out.

Well, Overbay's gotten on base 2 of 3 times tonight (walk & an almost-HR double), which is more than anyone else on either team has done through the top of the 7th except McCutchen, who did so with no batting prowess whatsoever, only by getting hit twice. Playing him at 1B on any given night isn't total folly. . . . No, I don't think he should be the everyday 1B. But I don't think it's absurd that he starts occasionally. I do think it's absurd, though, if Reynolds does -- he of the .143 BA since Aug. 1st. Overbay's OPS going into tonight was .668 -- not really much good, but hardly different than Reynolds' .681 and more a factor of getting on base a whole lot more rather than 21 HRs... and 35 RBIs for Overbay vs. 45 for Reynolds even though Reynolds has over 50% more ABs.... yeah, no reason Reynolds should be doing anything other than PH'ing or playing out of dire injury-replacement necessity. I'd still like to see Clark in the lineup far more than Overbay, but seeing Overbay in the lineup is not nearly as bad as Hector Gomez (banjo-hitting .150-ish BA) playing SS instead of Herrera (.277 BA in about 130 ABs).

Reactions: Initial comment: I'm all for whatever it takes for the Brewers to have much better odds for ongoing success than what they've had for most of their history. Ultimately I'm not sure how much change is necessary for that to happen, and how much of it is in the "visible" stuff like GM/manager/coaches vs. in the "less visible" player development work like farm director, scouts & scouting, minor league coaches, etc. 1. Braun's thumb injury happened in 2013. He was the most-tested guy in baseball in 2012 and was quite possibly better that year than in his 2011 MVP year. Based on those simple facts, the insinuations that continue to surface that his drop-off is PED-related are purely idiotic and reflect a serious lack of a) considering actual facts and b) critical thinking. 2. Nate82, every roster projection post I read from you over the years has us trading at least half if not more of our established players, starting mostly young guys & backups, and it always comes across strongly that you project that young guys will likely all develop & produce better than our established players. I get some of the logic b/c I agree with the premise that the Brewers need to do TONS better at acquiring and developing high-end talent. However, I'm convinced that that as a wholesale approach ultimately doesn't guarantee anything more than what going with a roster like the Brewers did this year would yield. 2a. I heard a great commentary on MLB Network Radio in the past couple days about Oakland and their Moneyball approach. For as much as everyone loves to point to them, their vast statistical analysis tactics, and how they constantly overachieve, Billy Beane's well-lauded approach has yet to win a World Series. In the end, if the point is to get over the ultimate hump, they've had almost as bad a time doing it as the Brewers. Since their early '70s run which coincided with the Pilots/Brewers 1st years as an expansion franchise -- so post-1974 -- they've been to the World Series 3x (all in a row) and only won it once in that 40-year span, and haven't been there at all since 1990 -- a 24-year drought only 8 years shorter than the Brewers' "futility" and not really a whole lot more success. (In hindsight, you could argue their '88-'90 stretch was exactly the "window" approach that many posters here argue the Brewers should never ever take.) The MLB Radio guys didn't make the comparison to the Brewers. I did that. But their point was, as I noted above, that that approach doesn't guarantee WS and actually has yet to prove it can work to that degree of success at all. 3. Melvin has been cited MANY times as saying that the Brewers do employ & utilize several stats/sabermetrics guys. The notion that the Brewers are totally ignorant about deep stats is absurd. 3a. I'm not a Melvin apologist, but I do think he's done quite well in many respects -- far more than not -- and the degree of respect toward him across baseball is well earned and well justified. In terms of fixing certain major holes, on the whole I quite like how he's been able to land some of the top FA SP's in Lohse and Garza. They're far from the #4's some people are inaccurately labeling them as in this thread. Don't forget, the SP's ERA the past 9 starts -- when the team TRULY needing better starting pitching to have a chance to win -- the starters' ERA is 1.53. If you don't have good pitching, you truly have little chance to succeed. For all his inconsistency, Gallardo's ERA of 3.50 reflects generally decent work (of course, there's been plenty of good work and other bouts of total ineptitude). The Brewers have largely had pretty good pitching this year -- yes, with inconsistencies (Gallardo, Estrada, Nelson), but still solid. The ultimate failure of this year is mostly in the offense, a lesser extent in the defense, and a bit lately in the mental. . . . In terms of NOT fixing major holes -- 1B as this year's glaring example -- while Reynolds & Overbay were arguably not the best moves he could've made, he still attempted to improve the position (Morneau!!!). But some deals can't be made b/c other teams aren't just giving their good players away for nothing (prospects or solid Morneau types), and it still takes both sides to make a trade or sign a player. 4. I have huge concerns about the mental aspects of this season's collapse -- certainly for what led to it but arguably more for their response to it, both players and coaches. If, in the clubhouse and from the FO's perspective, Roenicke has completely failed in that regard -- for example, that as the pressures of the losing mounted, his decision-making worsened and therefore hindered the team -- then I'd support a managerial change. Yesterday's comments about the Pirates "getting after it" are telling re: the Brewers' players' approaches or mindset or confidence. But . . . So the Brewers aren't hitting many HRs lately. However, they still have speedy runners who can steal bases. Speed doesn't slump. Why aren't they still doing all they can to make things happen offensively in ANY WAY POSSIBLE? If it's Roenicke getting gun-shy, then that's a problem. . . . Garner's teams showed the same patterns over time: early aggressive baserunning, but eventually withering in that approach any attempting very few SBs when everything else was failing. . . . I'm not saying SBs are the key to winning. Rather, the relative lack of them in the past month is just one symptom that mentally, just perhaps, the Brewers' dugout leadership is turtling. I'd hope they're not. But where is the drive? Where is the "getting after it?" Where are the hitters' adjustments (that's on Narron!!!!)? Where is the mental bearing down and focus needed to survive tough stretches? Regression in any of these capacities, let alone many of them, would be cause for serious concern on this team or any other. 5. The suck factor on the position player part of the roster seems primarily rooted in the players whose performances were potentially suspect all along, whether based on actual track record &/or career trajectory (Reynolds, Weeks, Overbay) or likelihood for regression or stalled development (Davis, Segura, Schafer, Bianchi). Overall, guys like Braun, Ramirez, Lucroy, Gomez, Gennett, & even Maldonado aren't so much a part of the problem. Arguably they're all still upper-level players who you'd want as part of the core of a good team. I'll put an asterisk on Gomez, though, because he's been extremely unreliable over the past two months, and his plate approach and his clutch hitting skills (nebulous, I know, but in other words, coming through at the plate when the team REALLY needs him to drive in runners) look absolutely terrible over that time. Gomez has improved fantastically over the past few years, but he definitely needs to get his offensive game turned back around. I truly don't believe the Brewers are nearly as bad a team as they've played the past 28 games. But beyond what now promises to be a more interesting offseason, perhaps a silver lining to this horrible stretch is that Melvin & the FO should now be far more likely to go for more substantial or meaningful upgrades this winter, not just a few band-aids (i.e., Reynolds or Overbay types as starters rather than limited-role guys). . . . .So I'm not advocating a total overhaul, but significant & strategic moves wherever they are made, which should be in several places: MLB roster (& at least some coaches/coaching), minor-league talent, and especially in scouting & player development, etc. -- not necessarily sheer quantity of moves, but definitely several high-quality moves.

Totally incidental and unimportant, but watching the video of Martin's HR, he took a WHOLE LOT LONGER to get moving out of the box and toward 1B than Gomez did in the couple instances when other teams got all peeved at him for "admiring his HR" or "showboating." Good thing it wasn't against the Cardinals or against a team w/ McCann catching because Martin would surely never hear the end of it!

This is probably more pertinent to last night than tonight, but I just found the split that says the Brewers have the fewest -- yes, FEWEST -- K's in the NL with RISP. Watching last night's game, and knowing how unbelievably bad our offense has been for most of the past 3 months, I find that incredibly hard to believe. All I can figure is that that must've never happened in the 1st half except a couple times in June -- we've been making up for it over the past month-plus, to be sure!

I've thought about Martinez. The dude can really hit. Morneau would be nice if he can retain his 2014 form. Cuddyer would be great on lots of levels but his track record for staying healthy isn't good. I like Clark plenty, at least if his 2014 represents regaining old form and getting back onto his original career trajectory. However, I'd be uncomfortable if he's our most MLB-experienced 1B on the roster going into 2015. Notwithstanding last night's game-killing gaffe, Reynolds has been outstanding in the field, our best defensive 1B this year and it's not even close. But I don't want this guy on next year's roster. His is the epitome of the type of bat we really need to go away from, not toward and especially not welcome back after this year's performance.

That wasn't my point. Melvin's dismissed coaches before. Stan Kyles certainly wasn't the problem at all when he got canned but he paid the price for a total BP meltdown. Individual Brewers coaches have paid the price for failures in the area they're in charge of. Johnny Narron's apparently a wonderful human being. That notwithstanding, I'd prefer to see a hitting coach who helps our hitters improve, and a couple years now offer some evidence that Narron's not that guy.

Well said. I'm not one to blame individuals, but I've had these 2 prevailing thoughts for a while and tonight swirls 'em both together quite grandly: 1. Mark Reynolds should just clean out his locker now. 2. I think Johnny Narron needs to go. I just don't see any of our hitters really improving under him. A team slump is one thing, and the Brewers hitters certainly have their flaws, but the offense has been lousy for much of the 2nd half and only seems to be getting worse. A team slump is one thing, but since early July, why are many of our hitters' ABs getting progressively worse as the year moves on, and where are the adjustments? Why have veterans like Reynolds & Weeks gotten worse and worse as the season's worn on (okay, they just aren't MLB hitters anymore)? Clutch hitting is terrible. Where are the focus, in-AB adjustments like shortened-up swings w/ 2 strikes, subtle adjustments in approach overall? Why can't most of our hitters -- Gomez most glaringly -- get a bunt down? . . . Etc..... Gennett & Davis are exactly what they were in the minors. Braun, Lucroy, Ramirez, & Gomez were pretty much already were what they are before Narron's arrival. Who's gotten better? Short list if any names at all. Who's gotten worse? Long list... The issues go beyond Narron, surely (Braun's thumb only begins the list... and no, I don't think replacing Roenicke is a needed solution), but the deterioration of quite a capable offense is, to me, the most glaring issue and, on that count, IMO a change is needed.

At least it's not just the Brewers who don't fare well against St. Louis. That just amplified the treachery they were facing tonight. Per Adam McCalvy's tweet after the game: "Sweet sassy malassy. Cardinals have shut out their opponent 21x this season, most for STL since Gibson's 1968 club." Yup, if Wainwright was on his game, it was going to take a bit of a miracle! Fiers could've thrown 9 perfect innings & it wouldn't've mattered because we can hardly hit as it is, let alone string together multiple hits and put up crooked numbers -- and let alone do so against Wainwright.