Fatter than Joey

I think it's silly to see the two leagues working under different sets of rules. I disagree -- I like the difference between the leagues -- It makes the WS seem less arbitrary.

Interesting talk about the potential new 3B coach going on here We did get sidetracked -- My point was that if Yost is on the proverbial short-leash, I would hate to lose a potentially good organizational guy (Money/Kremblas) when the new manager/GM cleans house. I think it should be Harry Dalton Harry's dead unfortunately -- but that said, he'd be better than Sveum.

First of all, I think Dalton was a good GM. There is simply no debating it -- If you look at what Dalton did in Balt. and Milw. you can't help but conclude he was very good at what he did. Now. The reason Dalton's name is brought into this discussion is that any time we talk about replacing DM, Yost or even Johnny Estrada, -- Sal Bando, Lopes or Moeller are brought up. I really think BFnet needs to have a group therapy session, where everybody gets talk about how Bando hurt us, and that at the end we can understand that Sal Bando is powerless to hurt us anymore. I remember what it was like to have bad GMs/Managers and catchers -- I also though remember having good GMs and good catchers, and while I appreciate that Melvin is an upgrade over some folks, I think he could be improved upon. Second of all,I hope you know that Melvin didn't come here on day 1 to build a winner right then and there. Doug Melvin's goal isn"t that 25 years from now this organization will be celebrating its second great world series loss, but that we will have some actual longevity in winning which will hopefully include multiple playoff runs and a world series or two. Dalton transformed a ~60 win team into a ~60 loss team in one season -- and then in his 4th season went to the playoffs, and his 5th went to the WS. In his 10th season the Brewers won 90+ games. Dalton had immediate and long-term success, in a era where it was harder to make the playoffs. If DM would have the ability to produce a winner his first year he certainly would have -- He was unable to. No but in Dalton's most succesful year 1982 according to a special report on FSN the two highest payrolls in baseball were the Royals and Brewers. A couple of points need to be made here. 1.) In 1977 the Brewers were 12th in the AL in attendance -- by 1983 the Brewers were 2nd in attendance. The fact that Dalton had a higher payroll was largely due to Dalton's work. 2.) "Highest Payroll" in 1982 doesn't mean what it does today. Most of the teams had similar salaries in 1978. In 2006 -- The #1 team had a $40 million higher payroll than the number 2 team, and a $165 million over the #30 team. In 1978 -- The entire range was probably only $2.5 million (as opposed to $165 million). that two of the best mid-relievers in baseball from july on would decide that they forgot how to pitch. If this team would have had the Matt Wise of the past 2 years there is no doubt in my mind we win the division! Both Wise and Tbow were scrap-heap reclamations and should have been treated accordingly. This line of thinking sort of reminds me of Brian Shouse getting a lot of ABs against RHers -- having good results, but then at some point "forgetting how to pitch" and getting lit up. Or Rick Helling getting starts after some good performances out of the pen. So is he just supposed to ignore his (Turnbows) 2005 season? Not ignore -- but 2005 was the aberration for Turnbow, he did not have a strong history. Cordero bounced back fromthe same exact problems Turnbow had in 06, and Melvin had no reason to believe Turnbow couldn't do the same. You called me "absolutly dumb" in this thread. To compare Cordero and Turnbow in 2006 is "absolutly uninformed". -- If you will refer to Cordero's gamelog you will see he had a bad April -- but was pitching well prior to the trade. Texas had the luxury of having another closer in Otsuka. Cordero also has a strong history of results that Turnbow doesn't -- If DM expects the same results, (or at any point expected) from Tbow as he does from Cordero he should be fired immediately. but it took a coy GM to realize Jack Z was a heck of a scout and not just simply dump him for one of his "own guys" I will concede it was very coy of DM to not DFA Ben Sheets for one of his own guys. Doug Melvin, who still took the fall for Hicks' misconceived grand plan. Certainly, Arod was a mess in Texas -- However, the fact remains that DM didn't do a lot to develop pitching in TX. If he were worthy of highest-caliber praise in my book, though, he would've had to have left the franchise so much better poised for the time after his departure than he did. The team won 90+ games the year after Dalton left -- I don't see how Bando not signing Molitor is Dalton's fault. Bruce Manno was named Asst. GM in Atlanta just this past Monday (10/22). But I sure hadn't heard his name much in the past decade, either. He was in STL prior to joining ATL, overseeing their minor league ops.

One time (once!) this year I purchased a Mikes Hard Lemonade at Miller Park and my brother informed me that I may in fact be a female. Yeah -- That's compelling evidence

Trading a decent center fielder who had just led the league in homers for a no hit center fielder basically signaled the end of the Brewers glory days. Thomas was pretty bad in 1983 -- The Brewers wanted to move Simmons to DH. Neither Manning or Thomas were particularly productive after the trade -- Thomas had a bounceback year, but I think the biggest culprit were injuries to Yount, Molitor and Fingers. To the point at hand, I think it is asinine to suggest that Melvin should be fired. Today, I agree -- I think this is his make/break year though. I certainly want to see what he does this offseason, but he needs to do better than he did last year. What happened to Bruce Manno anyway? He was in the Cards system for awhile -- I think he is in the ATL now. I still wake up in a cold sweat with nightmares that Dean Taylor is back in charge. Dean Taylor can't hurt us anymore

Are you seriously gonna say Dalton's a better GM, because he rebuilt a losing atmosphere? What are you talking about -- Dalton had 4 losing seasons in 14 years -- Melvin has had 3 in 5. Dalton turned a 95 loss team into a 93 win team. The year after Dalton left, the Brewers won 90+ games. Dalton took the Brewers to the WS, and is credited with one of the best trades in the history of baseball -- Dalton was a very talented GM. Melvin needed more time than Dalton, because unlike Dalton he didn't have the leagues highest payroll at the time. The 1978 Brewers had the leagues highest payroll? Lary Sorsenson pulling down the huge bank? Yeah, our pitching staff stank, but Melvin is not a psychic. No -- he wasn't a psychic in Texas either. I didn't realize though GM's needed supernatural powers to put together a pitching staff. Ultimately though this is no excuse. He should have contacted Dionne Warwick or Uri Gellar. How was he supposed to know that Wise and Turnbow would be non-existant in the 2nd half? He could have watched Turnbow pitch in 2006 to figure this out. Doug Melvin is going to be very agressive addressing needs this off-season, and will have this team right where they need to be in 2008 I hope so. If he doesn't get it done in 2008 I think it is time to cut him lose.

Is the basis of your argument that Melvin should be fired because he hasn't fired Yost yet? That's certainly part of it -- I am wary of his ability to evaluate pitching, and he seems to have a contempt for fielding. It will be his 6th season as well, it's his time. Harry Dalton was a good GM the first half of his Milwaukee tenure and a largely bad one thereafter. This isn't accurate. Dalton inherited a team coming off three straight 95 loss seasons, and rattled of 6 straight winning seasons, not to mention 2 playoff teams. -- That is a great job. 1984-1986 were rough, injuries to Yount and Molitor didn't help. Then from 87-91 he had 4 out 5 non-losing seasons - that is far from bad. traded Gorman in the first place and then brought him back for a bad 2nd run in '86 As unpopular as trading Gorman was, Manning was probably the better player at the time. You get the idea. I don't agree -- he was GM for 14 years -- certainly not everything was golden, but he was a very good GM that produced results both in Milw and Bal.

Fatter than Joey I hope your firing Melvin idea was supposed to be in blue because that is absolutly dumb. It's "absolutely" -- No, I am serious -- Melvin's time has come. Do you remember Sal Bando and Dean Taylor when all we literally had was just a bullpen. I remember Bando and Taylor - I also remember a good GM in Harry Dalton. What's your point? firing Melvin sometime next year would be a irrational emotional based decision At some time he needs to become accountable -- I think 2008 is that year. He decided to tie his fate to Ned Yost, that's his fault, not mine. Wanting Melvin gone is totally the wrong call, and could really once again put this organization a step in the wrong direction! Nah. It will get us over the hump.

I think it is interesting that we are discussing interim manager in the same breath as a 3b base coach. Here are my thoughts... When Yost gets fired in 2008, Melvin is a good candidate to get fired as well. Money and Kremblas seem to be good at their jobs and valuable to the organization (as opposed to someone like Dale Sveum). When a new GM comes in, likely the whole coaching staff/interim manager are going to be replaced with a new manager who will chose his staff -- so we would probably lose guys like Money and Kremblas. If Melvin isn't fired along with Yost -- I really hope he opens the hiring process way beyond the Brewers. Kremblas may end up being the right man for the job, however, I would hope that many other candidates are brought in. The reason why the Brewers have had limited hiring options in the past, is because for the most part, the team didn't have a solid core to work with -- I am quite sure that the Brewers and their growing fanbase would be attractive to someone. I guess at this point -- I would hope Yost brings in someone that will understand when Ned is scratching bugbites or making signs, or just plain confused. Ideally it will be a guy like Leyva, that we won't care about losing when Yost gets fired.

We interviewed Don Money for our show when we were in Huntsville (you can see it on our video archives on brewcrewreview.com). He was very friendly and accomadating before, during, and after the interview. In fact the, couple of times we've been to Huntsville, Don Money was always very nice to us. I have interacted with Don Money when he was a player and as a manager -- and I have never seen him be anything less than friendly and engaging. He took time out for me when I was a kid, and was really friendly and talked to my kids for 10 minutes or so, and I have seen him do the same with others both as a player and manager. I won't pretend that I have any sort of insight into Don Money, but I have seen enough of him to classify him as a good guy -- I think he has his bad days like anyone... I'd be surprised if Simba wanted any part of the daily grind of coaching and travel. He's an extremely intelligent man though, and would be fine in any baseball role. Yes -- I agree -- I would be delighted to have Simba on our bench or in our F.O., but he had medical issues when he was the GM in Pittsburgh (I think it was Pitt) so I am dubious that he would take on a front line job. I can't imagine Simmons wanting to be a 3rd base coach, although they could move Dale to 3rd and Simba could be the bench coach -- or they could fire Ned and make Simba the manager...

yeah -- I have both those books. They are awesome, and without a doubt extend my lifespan some day.

I read a lot of those as well -- Jupiter Jones was the fat kid -- there was an athletic kid, and then a dork.

Anybody else read The Hardy Boys series when they were a kid? Yeah -- I read through the whole hardcover series -- when I was a kid they made the transition to paperback. Wayyyy to many smugglers for my liking

Cicero -- The Life and Times of Rome's Greatest politician. -- Everitt. There are of course a lot of books that deal with Rome -- Reading Gibbon is like watching Claudio Vargas pitch -- I would stay away from that work.

Bette Nesmith.

Marge Schott?

Money was never spectacular, but for solid consistent play at 3rd, there was nobody better. I think he held the record for consecutive errorless games played at some point -- He was also one of the best fastball hitters the Brewers have ever had, it was near impossible to get a ball past him. Money played a lot of 2b as well -- He could help a lot of Brewers with their approach at the plate an on the field That said -- The only real interesting aspect of the hire will be if it seems like Ned makes the hire, or if DM does. I almost suspect someone like Glenn Hubbard.

I started a project a couple of years ago where I started reading all of the predominant biographies of the presidents. The 2 things I have really picked up from reading biographies is the historical aspect of our country -- but also you get a great insight into some very gifted individuals which I find enriching. I like David McCullough a lot. Just about all of his books are worth reading.

My guess is that they have some one lined up to be the STL GM, and is onboard with LaRussa

Also, check out The Jefferson Conspiracies Yep -- Neat book as well --- Although I find just about anything to do with Jefferson and Lincoln interesting -- American Sphinx, is another good book about Jefferson

And I run the checkout desk, So then, why we would bother getting a card, if you are the keeper of the keys? Just put a whole bunch of books in a dry-cleaning bag, and say someone is coming in to pick up the Historical Society's dry-cleaning. (I'm just kidding, unless I'm not). FTJ- I am going to pick up Manhunt, it looks great. Awesome, I'd be very interested to hear your take on the book. No one in my social circles has read it.

I read 2 books recently that sort of fit in this genre.. Manhunt -- James Swanson -- This is about Booth/Lincoln and the 2 weeks or so that followed the assassination. I learned a lot from this book. In Cold Blood -- Truman Capote -- I thoroughly enjoyed this book. I think it is considered one of the top 100 books in the last 100 years.

What I'm suggesting is that since the vast majority of plays go through the first basemen if everybody else is bad to historically terrible wouldn't that cause a general drop in the plays made that might be mistakenly taken out on the first basemen. Very interesting question -- This is almost a chicken/egg situation. My first impression is, that Fielder makes his IF look worse, by not scooping/reaching a lot of balls thrown at him. However I suppose the converse could be true as well -- when Weeks 8 hops one to 1b, Prince loses a putout chance, that a normal throw may have gotten him. Furthermore, If I imagined a guy like Derrek Lee playing 1b, he would record less putouts and his numbers would suffer as well. I think the bottom line is that Weeks/Braun/Fielder are all below average/bad defensive players.

I attended UW when baseball got cut -- Tom Fischer was drafted by the Red Sox. I met him on a couple of occasions.... He was probably their last star. I think he still lives in the Madison area. I know another guy (he is my insurance broker) that actually played on the hockey team -- but he was recruited to play for the baseball team, and his dad played for the Badgers (baseball) way back when. If this is the sort of thing you are interested in -- let me know and I will forward you his contact info. The other guy I know of off-hand is Red (Bob) Wilson -- who played on the FB team as well - and was a catcher for the Tigers and White Sox. He is in the Madison area, and is a 100% awesome guy. I think he managed a bank or something after retiring as a player. EDIT#2: -- I keep thinking of more dudes -- Bob Poser -- recently passed away -- but both him and his (Chub?) brother played at the UW -- After retiring he opened the Poser Clinic in Columbus, and his son/nephew still operate the clinic. His nephew is our family doctor. He has a display in his office to his baseball prowess. Poser though was fascinating as he was a Dr. when he pitcher (I think). Sort of like Doc Medich. Another guy -- Thorton Kipper, he recently passed away -- but I know he wrote a book about pitching. Cy Buker -- He is in Wisc as well -- Greenwood I think -- I traded some correspondence with him awhile back -- he was a WWII callup as a lot of the regulars were serving overseas. EDIT: Vern Geishert is another guy that lives in the area that played at the UW. Rick Riechardt as well -- they both played for the Angels at the same time I think.

Well I think there are a couple of points being made. 1.) This isn't 2004 anymore, -- people point to Weeks (small) improvement over a couple of seasons, -- The Brewers could afford to allow for gradual development in years past, not so much now. 2.) What is the positive upside of Braun playing 3rd? -- Realistically I think (at best) he makes an incremental improvement, and he still will be among the worst fielders in MLB, given the fact Prince is not going to help him out at 1st, we still have a black hole at 3rd. I think "experimentation" is perhaps a bad word to use I would use "gamble". I see Braun playing an OF spot less of a gamble than playing 3rd. I think Braun could be at best,, an above average RFer/LFer, or a below average 3b. I don't think the Brewers are in a place to take a lot of gambles, and putting Braun in the OF seems like a good way to hedge a bet. At some point I think his fielding will affect his hitting -- and the thing that Silver's article doesn't touch on -- Craig Counsell -- as long as Braun is playing 3b, we can be assured Ned will be running Counsell out there in late innings, and we won't have Braun available in late innings. If Braun is in the OF, and he gets replaced by Mench/Gross that is a whole lot better than batting Counsell. Anyone notice who else consistently made the worst defenders list? Fielder and Hall. Yep -- I mentioned this in the MLB thread. I tend to think Prince brings all our IF down a notch -- i.e. he makes an average fielder look like a below average fielder. I believe that any improvement Braun may make, will be compromised by Fielder. I think DM needs to realize that Braun isn't going to improve that much with Prince playing 1b. I think there are 2 trade paths that can be gone down. Acquiring players to play 3b, or acquiring pitchers that just K lots of batters. Guys like Cappy (LH - finese) should be moved.