Fatter than Joey

He'll go down in Brewers lore in the same breath as Bando, but he really helped start the turnaround. This is really true -- Time has been somewhat forgiving to Taylor. That said, Melvin still didn't inherit a great situation, and I think he has to be given a lot of credit as to where we are today. I have no problem extending a lot of credit DM for what he has done -- I just think there are questions about whether he is the right guy for the future. If DM were fired tomorrow, I'd certainly think he was a good hire, but it was his time to move on.

Six years isn't that long when you consider that Melvin inherited a bad major league team with a terrible farm system This isn't really true -- DM inherited a system that had Hardy, Hart, Prince, Parra, etc. already in place, our farm had started to turn the corner before DM arrived. On a final note, yes, Jack Z was good for the Brewers. Melvin hired him. This isn't true. Jay Zizzle was hired in 1999 as our Scouting Director -- I think JZ's hiring marks the spot in which our farm started to turn around -- not the hiring of DM in 2003. Certainly DM has had a positive impact on our overall operations -- I know the timelines get a bit cloudy though from time to time.

I think Word Up is one of the best songs from the 80s.

I'd rather spend 5M on Lopez than assume Counsell can maintain his current pace for another year. I see what you are saying -- but there are more options than Counsell and his thunderstick.

I agree completely. If he wants to stick around as a utility player, I'm ok with that. If he accepts and gets $4-5M -- why would the Brewers want to pay a guy that sort of coin to play shaky 2b, and terrible SS in backup roles? (Presuming a healthy Weeks)

if We keep Weeks and Lopez it will give Weeks a chance to bat other than First in the Order to take Advantage of his Power and Speed I don't think Lopez and Weeks would be in the same lineup a lot

ATL had given up on Capellan, as he couldn't develop effective off-speed stuff.

He clearly stated that it was just his opinion and not based on anything more than that. Actually he clearly stated he "had a sixth sense" and he "was usually right about this sort of stuff". It certainly implies that his opinion holds a little more weight -- which is fine -- not all opinions are equal, -- my opinion on stats isn't as weighty as Ennder's or Russ's, for example. -- However, I think once you cross that line you'd better be able to defend your statements. To be clear, my point is the same whether a moderator or anyone else posted it In all fairness, if JB12, Al, or Satan-incarnate JJHardy would have said "I'm usually right about this" -- they would have been tore into....

It's pretty hard to fire a GM that took us from a 56 win team in 2002 to a 90 win team in 2008. I'd agree if that GM was able to sustain that 90 win mark -- or get reasonably close to it. Six years is a pretty long time to reach the 90 win mark, if you can sustain it for a few seasons, that is awesome, if you hit it once, and then end up with < 80 wins the following season, it really is nothing special. he's got the 2009 team in contention once again for the NL Central division. "contention" is a really loaded word -- There are 9 teams better than us right now in the NL, 6 worse -- we would be 10+ games behind, in the West or East -- I certainly understand there are a lot more games to be played, and we could end up winning the Central -- and if that happened I'd certainly rethink my position, however the reality remains, that the majority of NL teams are having a better season than we are right now. What more can we ask from a small market GM? Sustained success. Furthermore, DM has enjoyed a new stadium, and new ownership, which has changed the Brewers standing in the "small market" arena -- If the Seligs were still running the show in County Stadium, I'd be a lot more patient with DM.

I don't agree at all FtJ... I, too, get that impression from many posts in this thread. Fair enough then, part of hindsight is history -- and I don't expect DM will change being what he is.

It seems those who would fire Doug enjoy the simplicity of hindsight through anecdotes of failure, while dismissing organizational success as the product of others' labors. This is both inaccurate and unnecessary.

But they were certainly in contention after June/July contrary to his claim. Agreed. In both those years, we probably had the inside track before the AS break, and then at some point the trolley went off the track. DM has presided over a couple of big meltdowns though...

They still made the playoffs last year, so they WERE in contention last year. The Brewers benefited also from back to back historically epic meltdowns by the Mets. There is no doubt that we are some sort of contender though-- I just don't think we are close to the inside pony.

Isnt there a Parthenon guy on this board?

I have gyro on the brain. I can relate. Carry on.

Hardy was drafted by Dean Taylor, I think.

Not really correct at all. The philosophy of DM and Jack Z was that of take the best available player who could be signed. "The best available player that can be signed" -- Is ultimately a subjective choice from a group of players, it's not as of there is one player, that everyone agrees on is "the best one". I doubt it came down to we need pitchers lets draft pitchers or we should get hitters so lets draft hitters. Every team needs pitchers every year. Hardy was more known for his glove than his bat Hardy was drafted out of HS, they liked his bat. you are just looking to find them to further your agenda open your eyes and ears. You should fear my agenda, and remain vigilant against it. You are the only obstacle in my path. I am like the super-hero Daredevil, except less fruity.

you are correct

Richie Sexson -- Sexson was in the "rebuilding era" -- I was speaking more to the "contender era" -- but I wasn't clear, so fair enough Scott Podsednik -- Podsednik was traded a year to late -- Podsednik really is a good example of what irks me. We got a great return, but the instant Pods got 2nd in the ROY we should have flipped him Dan Kolb -- traded a year too late as well Wayne Franklin -- Franklin's peak value may have been in 12u. The trade worked out well, but this trade was not DM dealing from strength Lyle Overbay (maybe not PEAK level, but still good trade) -- Yes, Overbay was a good trade Matt LaPorta -- I am sure LaPorta's peak value was not in 2008.

I definitely agree with this, but I will never believe that a manager will make that big of an impact. You said that managers "only" net 1-2 games -- are you willing to handicap the Brewers 1-2 games in the NL central race? 1-2 games is HUGE, no matter how you slice it.

I have no problem with Melvin. My issue is with Macha's ineptitude. It makes me yearn for the days of Garner or Yost. I see 0% chance of Macha being extended for a 3rd season I think Macha is a bigger problem as well, I just would hate to waste another year with Macha, and I am not convinced after Yost and Macha, DM is good at hiring managers.

A) Jack Z is responsible for all of our success, but Melvin is to blame for our lack of pitching. Here is how I view this situation -- DM is looking for a certain type player, it was JZ's job to find that type of player -- that is to say JZ took his direction from DM. I believe DM overvalued hitting, and undervalued pitching and defense. His tenure in Texas indicates that as well. I think JZ made DM look pretty good, had DM pointed JZ in another direction, perhaps we'd have some pitching depth in our organization. C) He traded Nelson Cruz... LOOK AT HIM NOW!!! Tony Gwynn Jr. is doing awesome and Gerut is doing nothing! My problem with DM's trading strategy, is that it seems to me he has never traded a player when their stock was at a high point. It seems we are always stuck with players that have devalued, after their peak has long since passed, and we end up giving them ABs in hopes they regain their value. I really liked how the Reds moved Josh Hamilton -- they picked him off the heap -- benefited from his resurgence, and then traded him when they could get the most from it. D) He didn't fire Yost soon enough. Managers MAYBE account for a win or two a year. They just don't have that big of an impact. 2 things: 1.) Managers do have an impact -- studies indicate a good manager can net a team 2-3 wins, and a bad one can lose a team 2-3 games. 2.) Two games a year is Huge -- especially a team in the 80-85 win range. We won the WC last year by a game. There are 4 teams in our division this year within 2 games. Does anyone really want to handicap our team by two wins this year, in any sort of fashion?

While Sal Bando was terrible for the Brewers organization at the time, he can't hurt us anymore. 1.) There were a lot of things that Sal Bando did that hurt us way beyond his actual tenure here. 2.) Doug Melvin is our current GM and can hurt us. There is no sense in constantly being upset over spilled milk years after it has been cleaned up. Yost was fired less than a year ago -- Unless that's just the way you are, and so be it. I guess "the way I are" -- is that I feel like the guy who thinks extending Ned Yost was a good idea, probably does not have the ability to make sound choices in future situations. Furthermore, Extending Ned Yost is not like spilling a glass of milk, anymore than selling Babe Ruth for a musical was. time comes when you realize you are arguing against just about no one. This phrase is clunky. Can you please clarify what you mean here?

Due to the fact that the above error in judgment has been corrected since mean anything? Not really, -- I don't think DM fired Yost. Or are we going to take it to the grave? Absolutely -- When you guys start forgiving Sal Bando, I will try to get past extending Yost.

Is that suppose to be in blue?No. I'll fix it though for you. Start with firing Doug Melvin and Macha. Is that better?