Fatter than Joey

Didn't this guy just make the biggest trade in franchise history a year ago which brought the brewers to the playoffs for the first time in 26 years??? DM did not trade for Cecil Cooper, or Fingers/Simmons/Vuk. In short, I think Melvin is an average GM. I think his timing is pretty weak. I really agree with this. He has made enough mistakes, that I think he should be canned. I don't think DM is a bumbling oaf or anything like that -- but I do not think he has the ability to get the Brewers to the next level. Extending Yost is still mind-boggling to me.

oops, the "i" and "o" keys era so close together. Knicked? you mean Nicked?

Start with firing Doug Melvin and Macha.

FTJ the part you're missing about Lopez's "recent contract history" is that he was under team control all 3 of those years. Fair enough. If he did, it wouldn't be all bad because we'd have nice infield depth and a super sub player that could fill in at any infield position. Lopez is a terrible SS. Use only in emergencies. He'd be a nice insurance policy for Weeks as well in case his wrist isn't ready to go for Opening Day. I'd agree that if Weeks wasn't at 100% and we traded Hardy -- Keeping Lopez makes more sense. TuesdaysWithRillo and FTJ, I think the fact that Lopez will, with no degree of encertainty, be a bench warmer for the Brewers if he accepts arbitration should be enough to cause him to pass. Last offseason, Lopez signed with AZ, for 1.5M less than he made in 2008, in the FA market -- If StL. had offered Lopez Arbys, he probably would have been paid much better in 2009. I think Lopez would rather be paid 5M to be a backup than 3M to be a starter. Lopez has an aura of being a loafer and problematic -- I think if teams were genuinely interested in Lopez, they could have easily beat our offer to AZ.

There has been some "heated" discussion regarding this very issue. Here is something I posted Here is Lopez's recent contract history. 2006 -- Accept Arby's -- signed and avoided the hearing 2007 -- Ditto 2008 -- Accepted Arby's and lost the hearing a.) Released by the Nats b.) Signed by the Cards c.) The Cards Declined to offer Lopez Arby's. 2009 -- Signed a one year deal, for 1.5M less than he earned in 2008 by AZ Dumped/Traded to the Brewers Lopez didn't "go/went" for anything -- things happened to him -- he certainly has a history of accepting Arby's and I don't see that changing. I am of the opinion there is a very good chance he accepts.

but I am curious to hear experiences with a cord. Based on my experiences, I began to hate living. I'd rather see you install a shrine to Wrigley Field, than buy a corded mower.

And oddly, some of the same posters seem to be the detractors in each trade. Who is detracting? -- and who is starting controversy in this thread? No need to be so defensive, though I know that's your nature. C'mon man, this is not necessary.

A place I rented once had a corded mower -- I would say that the experience was much like watching The View, or cutting your hair with a cheese grater. I could not properly express my disdain for corded lawn mowers... If I had to try it would go something like this Cauliflower > Ned Yost > Corded Lawn Mower > Kevin Costner. I'd get a rear-bagging, traditional 2 cycle mulching lawn-mower. Don't overthink this. What sort of trees do you have -- big leafed types?

Fangraphs had him at 3.6 million last year, almost exactly what he got this offseason and puts him 9.5 million this year. 2 things... 1.) Lopez is undeniably enjoying some success this year -- If you think that he is a .796 OPS guy -- then I can understand the want to pay him more -- I think he is more of a .700ish guy with shaky D. Therefore, I am more willing to look past his recent success and focus more on his overall history. I think his value is 3.6M or so going forward. 2.) Even if you spent $5 Mil and his value is $10M -- he isn't going to see a lot of PT behind Weeks and Hardy. Why pay your backup that kind of coin, when you have more obvious pressing needs, like a CF and/or C?

I think you're splitting hairs. They may not have been "hand-wringing" but there was plenty of kvetching. Fair enough -- every trade though there is going to be some degree of detraction -- we all value our players and prospects differently, and the players we are acquiring. To me, it still is a bit stunning how upset some people were/are about this trade. Speaking just for me, I definitely stated more than once, this trade had definite short-term/stop-gap benefits. I saw the term "underwhelmed" used, but I am not sure I saw people here getting "upset". People said that Lopez flat out sucked. I said he sorta sucks -- and I stand by that. If Lopez was a league minimum type player -- that's one thing -- $4M, is another. To me it's been pretty clear since he was with the Cardinals that's not the case. If you want to overvalue the ~150 ABs he had with STL that is one way to look at it -- The same season he was released by the Nats with a .619 OPS -- this sort of reminds me of Gagne in a way. There are not many 2B who can leadoff and have an 800ish OPS. I don't believe Lopez is a good bet to have an .800 OPS going forward. If he keeps doing what he's doing we will get Type B compensation for him. It's possible -- but it is far from something to count on. -- This has been my major objection in this thread. I am onboard that Lopez fills a current need -- but to say we are going to get a sammy pick for him is awful presumptuous. Look at what happened to Sheets (we got nothing for him), CC (didn't get a first for him), and Graffy (DM offered him Arbys, assuming he would decline, but he accepted). At worst we will get a switch-hitting superutility guy for next year. For what? Two middling prospects. I really don't see the problem here. If Lopez accepts Arbys he could get $5-6M -- Presuming we have Escobar or Hardy and a healthy Weeks, is spending that kind of coin really a good idea for the Brewers, especially with our pitching WOAHS? I also have a problem labeling Lopez "superutility" -- Lopez is a serviceable 2b, but a poor SS. Superutility guys, probably should be able to play solid middle IF defense.

Cats lick their butts -- I am sure peeing on him would have not hurt him.

He, like myself, is probably just stunned by all the hand-wringing over getting a useful player (who's level of usefulness is certainly up for debate) and a possible sandwich pick for next to nothing. You guys stun way to easy. There really has not been any hand-wringing in this thread, -- any trade is going to have its detractors. the move should be seen as salary dumping. Nice post, and detective work Kalle! this is exactly the feeling I got from AZ.

I am glad it brings CP some attention.

Is it safe to assume this deal officially closes the door on Doug Davis? I think so, at least for us. I am pretty sure at some point DDs name had to be tossed around.

You must lose a lot of bets. ??? - I am not sure you carefully read what I wrote -- I said "I am not comfortable making this gamble" -- which should imply that I am conservative by nature -- A more correct snarky response would have been "You must not win a lot of bets" -- which would have been true -- I don't win a lot of bets, and that would have torched my soul. Lopez specifically went for a one year contract this year in the hopes of playing well enough to net a multi-year deal. This simply is not true -- Here is Lopez's recent contract history. 2006 -- Accept Arby's -- signed and avoided the hearing 2007 -- Ditto 2008 -- Accepted Arby's and lost the hearing a.) Released by the Nats b.) Signed by the Cards c.) The Cards Declined to offer Lopez Arby's. 2009 -- Signed a one year deal, for 1.5M less than he earned in 2008 by AZ Dumped/Traded to the Brewers Lopez didn't "go/went" for anything -- things happened to him -- he certainly has a history of accepting Arby's and I don't see that changing. With his performance this year, he is well on his way to convincing teams that he is finally living up to his vast potential. I really don't think the 340ish ABs he has had this year is really going to make GMs all warm and fuzzy on the inside about his "vast potential". Plus, Lopez has the one thing stat heads hate and mediocre GM's love: Tools. Lots of em. I really doubt this as well -- We didn't have to give up a whole lot for Lopez, if he was in demand, I am certain another team could have given AZ a better offer. Lopez was released in 2008. *Shrug* -- I think he has a black mark on him. And I don't really understand the complaints that this move does nothing to help our outfield depth. Lopez can play all three outfield positions, Lopez has never played CF, and has only played 17 games in his career in the corner spots. I am sure he could hack his way around the outfield in an emergency -- however I don't think that this is a very tangible benefit either. Only fools and communists would refuse to take such a bet. I certainly have been called foolish more than once in my life, and my politics definitely embrace communism. Doug Melvin, extended Ned Yost, and is Canadian, so I am not sure your argument holds a lot of water here. I know you mods have to stick together, and that is adorable in a "Charley bit my finger" sort of way -- but, you guys still haven't corrected yourselves on the misreading of TH's blog, to be calling me foolish and a communist. I agree that this trade makes some sense, in that CC and CM are not and should not be every day players, and this move gives us stop-gap IF depth -- but the following are not reasons to feel good about this trade... 1.) Gamel to AAA -- This should have happened long before this trade. 2.) Comp Picks -- See Sabathia and Sheets, this is an entirely unknown variable 3.) Lineup Stability -- Again, our lineup could have been stable before this trade -- I don't think lineup tinkering makes much difference other than Braun and Fielder maximizing their ABs. 4.) OF depth

even if he did accept, he has a track record of being worth $4-5 million per year. Except with arbitration --- the arbitrator chooses one side or the other, it's not really a "fair market" thing. even if he did accept, he has a track record of being worth $4-5 million per year. Presuming Weeks is healthy -- Weeks is going to get most of the starts -- Paying someone $4-5 to backup 2b is probably not prudent. If DM is concerned that Weeks can only start 100 games -- then it is more sensible of course.

I have wanted Gamel in AAA...a trade wasn't needed to make it happen. This is a great point as well. I am happy with the end result, but the trade wasn't necessary.

Doug Melvin apparently disagrees with you, and I'll take his feelings on that subject over yours, if that's ok. Sure, that's fine with me, but I sincerely fail to see how you can know his "feelings" regarding FA compensation based on that blog -- unless I am missing something, which of course is possible. 2 other things to consider: 1.) I am sure what gets fed to TH is not always a true assessment of "the feelings of the team" -- I, on the other hand, speak from the heart. 2.) FTJ never has and never will sign and then extend Ned Yost (or any of his offspring) to a contract.

Apparently Melvin is stretching like the rest of us because in TH's blog Melvin mentioned to TH that Lopez would be get a sandwich pick in return I just read the blog -- and the paragraph regarding compensation does not seem to be tied to Melvin in anyway shape or form. It just seems like a statement inserted by TH. Yeah, sure doesn't seem like the team is debating offering him arby at this point. First, I am pretty sure they will cross that bridge much later in the year. Second, I don't see where you can glean any sort of idea of what DM is planning to do with Lopez based on that blog linked above.

And yes, it is your opinion, not fact. False. Everything I say is obviously factual. Where exactly is YOUR actual rationale? We have a presumably healthy Weeks coming back in 2010. Certainly we can find a better backup option for 2b than Lopez at $5M per year. It is not a foregone conclusion that Lopez will be offered Arby.

That said, why in the world did Arizona take him? AZ is 19 GB -- Their motivation is probably more about dumping Lopez. 1. The Brewers can finally settle on a consistent line-up. I am not sure there is a tangible benefit here. 2. Gamel gets regular playing time. (Even if it is in the minor leagues) I am happy about this. 3. We obtain protection for both Counsell and McGehee's knees. Yep -- This definitely has stopgap benefits. 4. We are very likely to obtain a sandwich pick worth more than Gillespie and Mercedes. This seems to be an easy stretch for many to make. If it happens, great... otherwise I think people are getting carts ahead of horses here.

Your opinion, not fact. C'mon, is this really necessary? You can do better than this. At least refute my opinion. I find it very, very hard to believe he won't decline arby to test the market. He could also do better in Arby than he could on the market. At any rate, I think offering Lopez Arby's is a gamble, and is anything but a foregone inevitability.

Yeah, I think they'd take that salary if they decide to trade Hardy. Eh, Lopez still sorta sucks. I think we could do better. Trading Hardy does make a difference --- I think though Lopez is just a stopgap for 2009, and he wont be offered Arby's.

And even if there's no interested in Lopez, being saddled with a versatile infielder with decent numbers isn't the worst thing in the world. There are much better values to be had. The worst-case scenario of Lopez accepting arbitration (he won't), settling in at second base for a year, and Weeks being moved to CF for 2010 does not exactly make me sick to my stomach. Not a dream scenario, but not horrendous. The Brewers will not move Weeks to CF to accommodate a guy like Lopez. Theres no way Lopez accepts Arby when theres no starting spot for him here. Lopez will sign a 4 million $ deal to ride pine. His ceiling is not that high -- he is almost 30 -- he's probably not going to ever have a huge payday. I do agree with those that think would have been better just to play Gamel fulltime. Me too.

If he's due to get a bump, he'll be trying his hand at free agency and won't accept. I am not willing to make this gamble for a sammy pick. Even if Weeks comes back and Lopez accepts for some reason, the Brewers still need versatile utility players, which Lopez is. For 4-5 Mil per year?