Fatter than Joey

The facts are: 1. It was a fully torn ACL. 2. He did no further damage by pitching on. Then why not let him finish the season?

The reality of the situation is that if you've torn your ACL, you aren't going to damage it FURTHER by pitching after the fact, unless it's partially torn (which doesn't appear to be the case). Then why not let Yo make his next start? if there is nothing left to hurt or no more damage could be done? If it is smart to put him on the DL ASAP, then it was probably a good idea to yank him after the collision. How could have Yost (or his staff) known that Yo torn partially or completely his ACL or other ligaments, during the gameday. Are we really blaming Ned for this? There's plenty to pin on Ned over the years, but this isn't one of those situations I don't think anyone here blames Yost for the collision. Letting Yo pitch after the fact though is a head-scratcher to me, it just doesn't seem prudent. Anyone got an idea of the timetable for recovery? Could Gallardo feasibly be available for October? Graffy completely tore his ACL -- His timetable was about a year.

"Ned Yost; Yea or Nay?" Well as long as we shift the blame from Reed Johnson to Yost I am OK with it.

2. The 1st place St.Louis Cardinals are without their top 2 guys in Carpenter and Mulder and seem to have won a few games without them. They knew that going into the season though, and made some adjustments to their roster prior to April. "Over? Nothing is over until WE decide it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" Brilliant! -- Thanks for that.

It's unfortunate that some people are channeling their frustration into blame games. Just to be clear, I am not at all blaming Yost for the torn ACL. I think the ACL was torn in the collision, and I don't think that much more damage was done to the ACL by continuing pitching. I just am wondering out loud, how a manager sees that vicious collision and then lets Yo continue on. There are other things that could get hurt, and it's not as if the trainer does a very thorough diagnosis on the 1b line.

He wasn't an innocent bystander. Yeah. I was trying to be funny, as in McClung's aim isn't that good, why should one of the ball boys/peanut vendors take a fastball to the melon when McClung throws at Johnson. Honestly, as others have pointed out -- Yo took a bad angle. Somewhere there is a coach screaming "this is why we don't take this angle to 1b"

This is such a dissapointing thing to happen. In no way should Ned be blamed for anything. It's the trainers job to determine if he's ok and Yo's decision if he feels up to it. It has nothing to do with Ned and all of you who think so are being ignorant. Deciding when players should be coming out of a game is Ned's decision, not the trainers, not Yo. Certainly i do not blame Ned for the collision -- but I think letting him to pitch after that collision was about as stupid as a person could get. Given the fact Yo is probably the most important cog in our machine, I cannot believe he was allowed to even walk back to the trainers room. once the ACL is torn, it is torn, I am taking that right out of an article, it wouldn't have mattered either way, the physician, said that no further damage occured because of him playing This could be true if you are talking about the ACL -- however, it certainly could hurt his arm, or MCL/PCL. I don't know how you roll the dice with that. t's actually quite simple, the trainers the medical expert. Ned Yost isn't. If the Trainers say he's fine, why would Yost argue with them? I don't think the trainers ever said he was "fine". He was obviously hurt, and something bad had happened. I think common sense dictates precaution in this case. Ben Sheets missed a start as a precautionary measure -- why wouldn't you do the same with Yo here?

This was a dirty play and he should pay for it with a McClung fastball in the next series! Why should some innocent bystander have to pay the price? Seriously, the dirtiest thing I saw in the series was when Braun cleated Theriot at 2b.

Me neither. I wonder though -- once it's torn, did it really hurt anything for him to keep pitching? I don't know - I think the damage had probably already been done -- but I think once you tear your ACL you should probably quit pitching. Regardless, I don't think Yost showed any sort of sensibility in continuing to let him pitch -- not Yo.

I'm reasonably sure Cot's is wrong there, FTJ. That's a possibility.

I don't pretend to understand all of the waiver rules -- however the time of the year, changes things as well. At the time you allude to -- it was the off-season. That may be why the salary concerns change.

I'd DH Weeks, as we could get his glove off the field.

By that logic every relief pitcher on the Brewers staff - short of Mitch Stetter - is not suitable for anything. I agree with this - outside of Stetter, the Brewers BP is walking WAY too many batters. As a unit the Brewers relievers are walking 5.8 batters per 9 innings (most other bad teams are around 4.8, NL ave = ~4.0, Cubs are just over 3) --which explains their collective 4.73 ERA. If this trend continues throughout the year, we are in big trouble.

This doesn't mention anything about placing him on irrevocable waivers in order to DFA him. He would have to clear irrevocable waivers to play in Nashville -- not to be traded or release him, or be DFA'd I think this is how it would play out, (assuming there is no trade)... 1.) Brewers tell Turnbow they want to send him to AAA. 2a.) Turnbow tells the Brewers to pound sand -- he gets his release, and forfeits his salary -- (I can't imagine he would do this) OR 2b.) Turnbow accepts the assignment to AAA, and then the Brewers put him on irrevocable waivers. 3.) At this point any team could claim Tbow, they would pay the Brewers $20K, and then pay $390K (league min.) of Tbow's salary. If no teams are interested, Tbow then reports to AAA, and he continues getting his $3.2M contract.

Why didn't anybody claim Manny Ramirez, then? Or is it different if the player isn't DFA'd? I am not sure what you are referring to? Turnbow has to be put on irrevocable waivers -- which means the team can't pull Turnbow off the table. I am sure Ramirez has never been put on irrevocable waivers -- otherwise some team would surely claim him. I am sure Ramirez has been put on waivers before the trading deadline (for example), but in that case Boston could yank him back if the Dodgers claimed Ramirez.

Johny Cueto twice StL. lit Cueto up. Cueto has had 3 good starts, 2 against the Brewers and one against AZ. PIT, HOU, and STL, have gotten after him pretty good.

On another note, I thought Prince showed class and sportsmanship after getting thrown out. It's so unusual to see that nowadays. It was cool. Absolutely -- He certainly wasn't trying to elude Soto, and Soto got the best of that collision, and Prince was man enough to let Soto know that.

you sound like you are saying its ok as long as the sixth grader is fine with it, al I don't think he sounds like this for a second, and it should be overwhelming obvious to you that Al is not "meaning to sound like that". All Al is saying, is that cases where an 18 year old has consensual sex with a 13-15 year old, the cases are not often prosecuted -- of course court statistics may prove him wrong, but all he is commenting on is the prosecution aspect -- not the moral issues.

Kudos to the gal for hitting a HR, and her opponents for doing the right thing. I had a discussion the other day with some co-workers about what game you would pay $5000 to be at (if you were assured of the outcome, and that the game would be a good one), and first we talking about famous championship games -- but then interestingly we veered to games such as this, and many of us settled on being at the game where that autistic kid starting canning all of those 3pointers. In retrospect I would have dropped a lot of money to be at that game and be a part of what happened there.

It might be something to keep an eye on, but I would certainly say he's been rather invisible. I think that is in a large part due to our team's offensive struggles as of late -- Sveum hasn't had the chance to make a lot of bungles yet... Overall I agree with what you are saying though, let's watch it, but not fire anybody just yet....

When a team claims a player they take on his contract. False. The claiming team takes on the league minimum. From Cot's page: # A club wishing to send a player designated for assignment to the minor leagues must first place him on irrevocable outright waivers, making him available to the other 29 clubs in reverse order of won-lost record. * If the player is claimed, he is lost to the claiming team for $20,000. (Irrevocable waivers may not be reversed.) The claiming team pays the player the major-league minimum salary for the rest of the season, and the original club is responsible for the balance of his contract. McClung isn't suited for anything. His ERA reflects how well he's pitched, and thats been poorly. Agreed here -- McClung is still walking way too many batters (7 per 9 IP) --- his career is just under 6. He really should never pitch in any game the Brewers hope to win. He hasn't been the debacle that Turnbow has been, but he just isn't a good pitcher.

if all a team has to pay is $400k as stated above to get turnbow - there will be LOTS of teams that will take a chance on him. I tend to agree -- The Brewers signed Jeff Weaver after all. Hopefully there will be more than one team interested, so DM can get some leverage in salary relief.

And although McClung has been okay as of late I would still rather have Bush in our pen. I agree -- McClung can be a mop-up guy like in the Suppan game, but the team still needs a quality long-relief guy to pitch in games where Parra can only go 4-5 innings, but the Brewers are still in the game -- which has been pretty much all of Parra's starts. A quality LR would also hopefully mean less pitchers will be needed to pick up innings.

Prince was out by a decent amount but Fukudome's throw was absolutely perfect Fukudome's throw could have been bounced a few times, and Prince would still have been toast, a perfect throw was not required at all. I think 80%-90% of MLB RFers make that throw pretty easily. It was a great throw for sure.

I think your understanding is the correct one with one exception...He can refuse the assignement, but he forfeits his contract. That being the case, unless some team were to make the very questionable decision to claim him at $3.2 mil, it looks like it'll almost certainly be AAA or outright release. I aould assume the waiver period will be up some time this weekend. Turnbow can definitely refuse the assignment. Turnbow has 4 years of service. After 3 years of service a player can refuse assignment, but loses his salary, at 5+ years, the player can tell the team to pound sand, and refuse his assignment and get his entire salary. If the Brewers try to send Turnbow to AAA, here is what would happen. 1.) Turnbow would have to accept the assignment. 2.) Turnbow would be placed on irrevocable waivers, which means that the Brewers can't pull him off the table. 3.) If a team claims Turnbow, they will NOT pay his $3.2 -- they will pay the league minimum which is either $390K or $400K. -- The Brewers would be on the hook for the $2.8M (roughly). If the Brewers release Tbow and he signs with another team -- I think the team that signs Tbow can do so for the league minimum, and the Brewers are on the hook for the balance of his salary -- this I am not as sure about. The best case scenario is that there are 2-3 (or more) teams interested in Tbow, and Melvin can trade him to a team for some sort of Max St. Pierre, with the idea that the new team picks up some or all of Tbow's contract. If there is only one team interested in Tbow, they'd be best suited to wait until Tbow goes on irrevocable waivers and only pay him $400K, and let the Brewers cough up the rest of the $2.8M of his contract.