Raw Biz

Well Greinke and Marcum are the 1 and 3 starters out of arguably one of, if not the best, rotations the Brewers ever had. And KRod/Wolf were definitely factors last year and they still provide some value, as they are not replacement players. Sheets/Sabathia might've been better than Greinke/Marcum but when you include another SP, setup man, and SS, that is a lot. It just means there are more holes to fill, even if those holes were "non factors" as you put it.

I don't think there was ever a chance of signing Marcum to a BIG deal (depending on your definition of big). That being said, something like 3/36 would not have been bad at all. I'm still not sure why he gets so much hate. Yeah he sucked during the playoffs but he was great all year last year, this year, and pretty much his entire career in the AL East. The guy is a good pitcher, plain and simple. Hopefully he comes back healthy and we can either A) get him to accept the 1 yr tender or B) someone signs him to a deal and we get picks.

I figured I would make a list of hypothetical trades that I'd like to see the Brewers make. Some will probably be reaching but I think most are in the realms of possibility. I'm going to stick to the 4 teams that have been rumored to be interested, plus the Tigers who could probably use Greinke. Obviously a trade for one of Profar/Machado/Bundy would be #1 but since none of them are likely to be traded, I will start elsewhere From DET: 1. Turner and Castellanos (Dreaming, almost no chance of happening) 2. Turner and a couple of B-/C+ prospects (Collins, Flynn?) 3. Castellanos + Smyly 4. Castellanos + Crosby + another low prospect Not sure if Castellanos will keep up his OBP since its basically tied to his AVG (i.e. doesn't walk much) but I'd still take him. Also, with Smyly plugged into their rotation, don't know if they will give him up. From BAL: 1. Schoop + Delmonico + Arrieta + another B-/C+ Honestly, after Schoop (and obviously Bundy/Machado) I don't really like anything. From LAA: 1. Richards + Segura + Cowart 2. Richards + Segura + Cron 3. Richards + Segura + Jimenez 4. Richards + Segura 5. Segura + Cowart + Cron 6. Segura + Jimenez + Cron Richards + Segura + anyone is probably reaching but I'd still ask and then work my way down. I actually like a lot of what LAA has. From ATL: 1. Teheran + Delgado/Vizcaino 2. Teheran + Gilmartin + Pastornicky 3. Delgado + Vizcaino 4. Delgado + Gilmartin + Pastornicky The Braves usually draft pitching well and they have a lot to choose from. I would love to get 2 of Teheran/Vizcaino/Delgado but that probably won't happen. Pastornicky is included because while he didn't light the world on fire this year, he would fill a hole until Rivera/Arcia are ready. And he's only 22. From TEX: 1. Olt + Perez 2. Olt + Martin 3. Perez + Martin 4. Olt + Ross + Grimm 5. Olt + Ramirez + Odor 6. Martin + 2 of Ross/Ramirez/Grimm + Odor Obviously Texas is loaded and there's a lot to choose from. They said they don't want to include Olt but I would insist. Even with his big K numbers, he walks a lot and hits for great power. And if they don't include Olt, they have a lot of other great prospects. Overall: 1. DET1 (Most likely wouldn't happen) 2. LAA1 3. ATL1/TEX1 4. DET2 5. LAA2 Last. BAL1 I'd look to focus on TEX and LAA as trade partners, as I think they'd be willing to give up the most, have the best prospects, and would be fighting against each other. I'd stay away from BAL because, like I said, they don't have much behind their top 3. ATL is basically pitching-heavy and, while you can never have enough pitching, our farm is pitching-heavy as well and it'd be nice to get some impact bats. I'm not as familiar with DET after Turner/Castellanos but if you could get both, that would be my number 1.

Exactly, that's what it seems like a lot of people are forgetting about these comebacks, especially last year. With as well as the Cards played, they still might not have made the playoffs had Atlanta won one more game. If Kimbrel hadn't blown his first save since June on Sept. 9 against the Cards, they would have been eliminated (not at the time but in terms of overall record). The Braves went 9-18 in September and the Cards went 23-9. Not only are each of those records rare (for how well each respective teams were playing at that point), but its even rarer for both to happen at the same exact time.

Isn't he signed through 2016? Yeah my bad. I was just reading an article on Segura that said Aybar was a FA after this year and Segura would likely be auditioning for a starting spot next year. But that was written before the season and I forgot Aybar signed an extension in April.

If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped. Yes this team has potential. But Manny Parra has had potential for years. Jose Veras had potential because of his stuff. What I'm saying is I don't see this team being able to live up to that potential. KRod has always given up lots of baserunners but this year he hasn't been able to keep them from scoring. Axford has had trouble locating his curveball all year. Wolf has looked pretty bad. We don't know when Marcum is coming back. There's just too many WHAT IFS for me. I really think they that Melvin & Co. think they can be last year's Cardinals. Their bullpen was a mess too last year and they were like 8 games out but won it all. Of course the main reason that happened was an epic collapse by the Braves, as well as the trades for Furcal, Rzcepskcaioejaofiaski, and Jackson. I really don't want the Brewers trading anyone else away thinking they can follow in the Cards footsteps. Look at what Russ wrote regarding percentages and making the playoffs. Yeah I know those percentages aren't gospel but they aren't very inspiring either. I'm usually optimistic but I'm also trying to be realistic here. There are too many WHAT IFS and I think losing Greinke/Marcum/Wolf/KRod/Etc. for a few draft picks won't do anything to help the team for 4-5 years. I just think it's smarter to get some value now (obviously if you're getting value back and I think there will be talent available for at least Greinke) instead of waiting for that slim chance that everything falls exactly into place. I'd rather try to stock up a bit and prepare for 2014 and beyond than hope everything goes right this year and then have to wait until 2017 and beyond.

I think I'd rather deal with LAA than BAL at this point, to be honest. It looks like BAL won't give up Machado or Bundy and after those two, there's a pretty good drop off. Schoop would be okay but I don't want anything to do with any of their demoted starters (Britton, Matusz, Arrieta), at least not as anything more than a throw-in. LAA has Segura, Richards, Cron, and Cowart. I also think LAA would be willing to give up more, since they basically only have to deal with TEX while BAL has to contend with NYY, BOS, and TAM. And LAA already has more talent than BAL so Greinke would probably put them more over the top than BAL. That being said, since Aybar is a FA, I don't know if LAA would give up Segura (if he sticks at SS). Maybe we can throw in Izturis/Maysonet.

I didn't see anything in those links that said Upton had a bad attitude. I just saw that he was inconsistent, Upton said all decisions were ultimately up to the GM, and Upton was upset with fans that he was being booed. I think a lot of young players would be upset when they're being booed by their home fans. I think the decision to trade Upton is ultimately more about getting back more talent since he probably has a ton of trade value, even after his mediocre year so far. Obviously they're not going to give him away, so why not see what kinds of offers come in. All that being said, it wouldn't surprise me if he had did have a bad attitude at times because, as Lucroy fan said, young players who are that talented at that young of an age sometimes come off as cocky and arrogant. It might just be "confidence" (like Braun says) but it wouldn't be unheard of. Lawrie seemed to have attitude issues and there was talk that Harper did as well, though I think Harper has handled himself pretty well in his time up this year.

I've mentioned this in other threads but I was screaming for Gallo at every one of their first 3 picks. He might have been a high risk pick but he also had huge power potential and just about everyone knew it. When you have multiple 1st round picks, at least one should be a high-ceiling pick like Gallo. Roache might be considered a high-ceiling pick with great power potential (and good value since he fell because of his injury) but I'd rather take the younger/healthier player who can start playing immediately. Last year I was screaming for Guerrieri. It just so happens that the Rangers and Rays got both of those guys and both of those organizations have great farm systems. So it seems like they know what they're doing and so far (extremely small sample), they are looking like great picks.

I don't think what happens in the next 2 weeks will change Greinke's mind with whether or not the team will be competitive in the future. Unless of course he's hoping to be traded for a few prospects he likes and then will return in the offseason. I (and many others) have been saying all along it would be amazing to trade him and resign him later, however unlikely that may be. However, you're right that if there's a person who understands that way of thinking, it's definitely Greinke.

Agreed. If he winds up in the bullpen the rest of the year, his innings will be way down. What will happen next year when he may be asked to step into the rotation? He would likely be on an innings limit 30-50 innings less than if he was left starting (or more, I'm just throwing that out there). That could be like 5-10 starts. I'm not saying anything about whether or not innings limits are a good idea but its a fact that most teams use them on young players and the Brewers would likely not want to push Thornburg too hard next year. Then again, maybe this is a way to cap his innings this year and have him in the pen for 6 weeks, then moving him back to the rotation. Either way, I really hope this doesn't affect his progress as a starter.

I almost don't want them to do well during this stretch because then they won't sell off Greinke, KRod, etc. or worse, they might actually buy. I know I've said it a lot but this is not a playoff team (even if you added Thornburg and a couple of guys to the bullpen) and they likely wouldn't make it far even if they made the playoffs. Now is the time to restock for the future.

The Brewers have most likely given him their top offer by this point. If he hasn't already signed, then he will be testing the market. Also, I don't really think a solid fan base and comfortable stadium have much to do with remaining competitive. The Rays have done alright with terrible fans and a terrible stadium. The Marlins too. And the Pirates have had both solid fans and a great stadium but are just starting to get good now after 20 years of awfulness/mediocrity.

Yes, there is. No book on them - hitters aren't sure what to expect. Happens all the time. Awesome! Ha, ha. I have to agree that it seems like just as many guys struggle. It would be really interesting to see a study like this, but I'm not sure how to objectively approach it. Really, I thought slapzilla just gave you the answer.

yup, my question as well. I don't think we should let the question about what to do next year stop us from acquiring a great SS prospect via trade. Worry about that when we get there. If Gonzalez heals quickly and everything checks out, he could be had for cheap and would likely outperform any of our current options. Bianchi could be an option depending on what happens this year. They could sign someone else for cheap. Honestly, they probably won't be competing next year either (unless they resign one/both of Greinke/Marcum, depending on if they trade for someone, if they sign someone big, etc.). So I don't think any lack of a great SS will really hurt them. I'd rather they get the BPA (or rather highest talent ceiling available) via trade and if that happens to be a SS who's a couple of years away, then so be it.

I'm not so sure I agree Billy. Melvin was pretty good at acquiring hitting during his Texas days but wasn't very good at evaluating pitching then either. That could just be a coincidence or perhaps he really didn't give much input on pitching. I just think the Texas and Milwaukee years are both similar in that they were pretty darn good offensively but lacking in pitching (minus the past 2 years for us).

I usually like BR because they have a lot of content added daily. However, I hated this list. First, they said the Brewers still have one of the best scouting departments in all of baseball. I'm not so sure this is true anymore, especially after the departure of Jack Z. Second, they said that the Brewers have basically recovered from the Greinke trade because of this draft. While I agree that this year's draft looks pretty good, it's still too early to tell one way or the other (though that's probably just semantics). As for the rankings, not sure how Rivas and Farris made a top 25. Rivas has been really bad the past 2 years at AAA and he's 26. Farris is 27 and is nothing special. The Author says Rivera likely won't reach AA for a few more years but that isn't a problem because he's young. This is true. However, his birthdate is listed as 1988 (which is wrong, its 1992). Some fact-checking should be in order. The author also says Burgos walk-rate has more than doubled in his call-up but it went from 1.3 to 3.3 and its such a small sample, I'll rely on his 2.4 career rate to say he doesn't really have command problems like the author says. Also not sure how Goforth is rated higher than Gagnon. I know rankings are subjective but I disagree with a lot here

He closed last year and had 32 saves with a 2.98 ERA and 1.24 WHIP. This year he didn't fair too well so he lost his closer's role (I also think he was hurt at one point). He strikes out a lot of guys but also has a propensity for walks, kind of like Veras. However, he's only 24 so I wouldn't mind him. If the offer was Segura and Walden, I'd probably do it. I'd like to get a little bit more (add one of Richards/Cron/Cowart) but I don't think Segura and Walden would be a terrible haul. If we drafted like the Rangers/Rays/Royals, I might be more inclined to take the picks but like I said, I don't have a whole lot of faith in Melvin & Co. in that department.

I would love to get high picks too. But like I said, I don't know if I trust Melvin, Seid, & Co. to actually come through. And depending on who they drafted, those players might not make any impact til 2016/17.

Well it is kind of hard to read a lot of your posts. You don't use punctuation or capitalization and honestly, sometimes it just sounds like nonsense at times. Just a quick once-over to make sure it sounds coherent would do a lot of good.

Anyone have a translation for this? I never understand what he says to be honest.

Except the problem is I don't really have a whole lot of faith in how the Brewers draft, especially after Jack Z left. They usually draft for floor, not ceiling and I hate it. The past couple of years they've had multiple 1st round picks and could have taken a safe player and a high ceiling player. I really wanted them to take Guerrieri last year along with a college arm (I actually wanted Gray and though he's having a rough year, he's at AA as a 22 yr old while Jungmann and Bradley are in A ball). Then this year I really wanted Joey Gallo, who has just been mashing so far. Coulter has yet to really do anything (I know its early but still), Haniger is likely done for the year, and Roache likely won't play at all. Some might argue that Roache is the high upside pick but I'd rather have taken Gallo who's younger and healthier. Sorry for the little rant but draft picks aren't always certain. If you can get some guys who have already shown what they can do in the minors, you likely have a better idea of what you're getting and they are closer to helping out. I'm not saying to just take "scraps" as you put it but just because a team won't give up a top 5 prospect in all of baseball doesn't mean everyone else is a "scrap."

Just curious if you posted under a different name because you've only been a member for 5 weeks. Unless you were speaking in terms of talking to others and not posting here.

This is the Mat Gamel thing all over again. Green has 131 career MLB PAs. That is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things. And almost all of those are from PH appearances and sporadic playing time. Yes he hasn't actually hit very well in his little MLB career but I don't think that justifies calling him a bust or saying he doesn't hit. He's got a career .828 MiLB OPS (which includes coming off a pretty serious wrist injury). This is one of those situations where I don't think you can really judge anything a guy has done in the majors because of how little he's actually played there. Chris Shelton hit like 9 HR over 2 weeks 6 years ago but people weren't calling him a hall of famer because of it.

Nyjer.