Raw Biz

I just want to warn you to be careful with how you state things. You are stating these things as if they are fact when they are actually your opinion. There is a very real possibility that Beckett's and Crawford's best days are behind them and they never return to form. It's hard to take people seriously when they state things like this so matter-of-factly. It seems like that has become a problem with a lot of posters recently, not just you.

HiAndTight, I think you are just confrontational for the point of being confrontational. You continue to call out people in posts that have virtually nothing to do with them. You respond to someone's post and then add in somebody else's name. Or you respond to posts that are weeks/months old, using hindsight to better your argument. I've seen this done by you in multiple threads but I don't know exactly what they are off-hand. I'm also still waiting for your apology toward me. I've called you out numerous times about how you have attributed other peoples quotes to me and brought me into conversations that had nothing to do with me. Usually you will just disappear from posting for about a week and then continue to do the same thing to other posters. We like to have civil discussions here but it seems that if someone doesn't agree with you, they are automatically wrong and you attack them. I also know I'm not the only one who feels this way. So if you could just try to be a little more cognizant of what you're writing and how it might be perceived, I think we all would appreciate it.

If rewarding him is paying him more than he's worth or even market-value, I'd pass. However, if he would take a discount, I might consider it. I just don't think it's smart to spend a lot on players past 30, especially when they could be blocking younger, cheaper players.

1. Yo 2. Marcum on one yr/QO 3. Fiers 4. Rogers 5. Peralta/Thornburg That would be my starting rotation right now if I were running the team. I don't think Estrada is capable of making it that 2nd/3rd time through the order so I think he just further strengthens the pen. Whoever loses out on the last spot spends at least until June in AAA, as both are still pretty young and should stay stretched out as starters. If someone struggles/gets hurt, they would get the first call. However, I think Estrada is pretty much guaranteed a spot at this point by the Brewers' brass and I don't know if they would offer Marcum that QO. I think my rotation looks pretty solid but replacing Marcum with Estrada has me scared.

When it comes to cheating scandals like this, college football recruitment violations, etc., I hate when they strip winners of whatever they've won. Go ahead and punish/fine/suspend/etc. whomever you want but stripping past victories/championships doesn't really do anything for me. Everybody knows who really won, even if it might've been by doing something against the rules. I will always remember that Armstrong (as much as I dislike the guy) won all those TDFs, that Reggie Bush won the heisman, Bonds hit all those HRs ( I know he wasn't stripped of anything, just making a point), etc. Stripping people of their accomplishments doesn't really do anything IMO.

I have a bunch of comics in my basement. Mostly mid to late 90s stuff from when I was young (11-16ish). But I also have some MAD magazines from the 60s/70s that my grandpa found at a rummage.

Yeah, when we were picking our games for our 20 pack at the beginning of the year, we took both last night's and tonight's games, thinking it would be a pivotal series (plus it was also the only home weekend series in August). We ended up not even going last night.

It is shocking how far off-topic this thread has gotten. Can we either lock it or move some of the clutch stuff to a new one?

No. Wouldn't a "qualifying offer with stipulations" just be a normal contract offer? Sure they could offer him something like that but they wouldn't get any compensation if he turned it down. The QO is the 13.5 (or whatever number it will be), take it or leave it. There is no negotiating or anything that goes with it.

Thanks. Yeah I think I seen Romines awhile back. Didn’t know about Spirits. A place in Menomonee Falls and a place in Sussex (both closer to me) used to get them. But that was back in like 04’ to 06’ish. I think Krueger's in the Falls used to get it but I doubt they still do.

If he comes back healthy, I think you just make him the qualifying offer. Then you either a get a pretty good pitcher for next year or an extra draft pick. I would maybe consider a 2 yr/16-20 mil offer but not sure he'd take it.

Tailgating is wonderful. I enjoy the comradery of the fans around you(even those you don't know), hanging out with friends, drinking beers, playing bags(or whatever your choice of game is) and grilling out.....then walking in to enjoy a baseball game. It's basically a giant party before a baseball game. While i agree tailgating isn't necessary before every game, i think it can really enhance the experience if you are going with a group of friends. I guess I don't consider hanging out with a bunch of drunk college kids who don't know anything about baseball comradery but to each their own. I'd rather go to Derry's and have a drink or a burger before taking the shuttle to Miller Park. Most people who tailgate are probably families and older folks and most likely not very drunk. There's maybe 10-15% "drunk college kids". It might seem like more if you have some annoying ones but even when people do get drunk, I think they tend to stick to their own groups. Unless you've had really bad experiences in the 2 times you've tailgated. Even if you're not a big drinker, it's still fun to sit outside, grill out, talk to others, and play games before going in.

What's the difference? We're both saying we don't see the Brewers contending in 2013, but we both hope they do. We both said we'd rather use 2013 as a year to sort of rebuild and get ready to seriously contend in 2014. Can you quote a "snide" remark I made that was inaccurate or bollocks in anyway? People can disagree with me. That's what these forums are about, debates, opinions, discussions, etc. I laid out my view and opinions and explained in detail why I feel the way I feel. If you can't see that "I don't know what to tell you". I don't think it's your opinion that people have a problem with. It's how you present it. I know this is a message board and almost everything that people say on here is an opinion and should be treated as such. However, when you dismiss other's opinions and present statements as fact when they are not, it rubs people the wrong way. Sure the Brewers' chances of making the playoffs next year are probably slim. However, to just say "they won't contend" as a fact is wrong. I know it's semantics and everything but the way you present your arguments/opinions will go a long way in how people view/respect you. It seems as if you've had problems from day one here with your Braun snubbed from Derby thread, Olt to the Marlins "lock", etc. Sometimes you have valid arguments but when they are presented in a "know-it-all" fashion, you won't get very far.

Was it vs the Pirates?? Yes.

I'm not sure why you have to drag me into your crap all the time. This post had nothing to do with me, yet you bring my name up. And this isn't the first time either. I called you out last time you made some crap up and basically attributed another posters quotes to me and you never apologized for that either. Its like you're just trying to get a rise out of me at this point. I may not agree with everything you say and some of your posts can be rather long and repetitive but I don't go out of my way to attack you, like you seem to be doing with me. I don't care if you don't agree with me but quit going out of your way to bring me into your posts. Meanwhile, maybe read up on the etiquette thread, particularly these little bits: Condescending talk toward other posters (including but not limited to name-calling, baiting and flaming) is not allowed. Other Brewers-related message boards are more tolerant of "talking smack" to other users, and we suggest you go there if that's what you're about. If you want to respond to multiple messages in a thread, try to do it with a single post, rather than a bunch of consecutive posts. The latter gives the impression you haven't read the earlier posts.

I sincerely do not believe that 3 years and 72 million of Lee is better than 5 years and 110(and It would likely have been about 115) for Greinke. I would rather take Greinke. At the end of those 5 years Greinke would be about the age of Lee right now. But when you NOW throw in the 12.5 million dollar option year, then it just becomes too much and just simply not worth it. You're talking 3 years and almost 86 million guaranteed to Lee..Which is why paying what it'd take to get Greinke would be even more worth it. Or hell, James Shields. I think if Zack Greinke came back to Milwaukee(which I am NOT ruling out as he is a sophisticated player and you can already write off a LOT of the big market teams(NYY, NYM, Philly, CHW) and I don't see the Cubs spending the money they'd need to on Greinke when they're so far away, I'm curious if the Red Sox would shy away given his history of anxiety issues(which I personally dismiss, but others don't seem to). So at the end of the day, when you go through the divisions; AL East-I think the only teams that MIGHT go after him(meaning it'd make sense and COULD afford it are; Toronto-great-great young lineup and great farm system and Baltimore, very talented team PO contender in the NLC IMO and if they finish with 85 or so wins this year and with Machado and Bundy on their way up, they may look at Greinke as the player to get them into the playoff now that you can fnish 3rd in that division and make it). Both are teams we could spend with though. Angelos sporadically spends..or rather TRIES to spend big money. Don't know what AA's thoughts would be in Toronto. NLC-Detroit They're a darkhorse team that can't afford it given their bottom line and long term commitments, but they probably couldn't have afforded Prince. They want to win NOW with their older owner. Kansas City is a team that's been rumored with him in free agency. I think we could match them, and I believe someone as astute as him would look at the two teams and see us as being a better team with him. No other teams. AL West- Likely none. Seattle has pitching, they need hitting and aren't likely to spend big. Texas has Josh Hamilton who's likely to get 200 million and likely from Texas as I think they'll overspend for him. LAA-They don't want to pay the luxury tax just like the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox don't want to...which is the genius of Bud Selig. He set the bar a long time ago and had a progressive penalty so teams could prepare for it and now teams can't just spend limitless amounts of money. Now if a team like the Angels want to sign him, they may pay him 6/140, and it might cost them 6/200 or whatever the case may be. NLC- Milwaukee-We're in a much stronger financial situation than people who are intent on and get stuck on market size IMO. We've done very well the last couple years, we're likely to do BETTER this year, and we're getting a significant influx in revenue next year from a new tv deal, radio deal(though how significant the radio deal is, the TV deal will add more than 20 million in additional revenue to a team that was at 106 and talking about being buyers if they were contending. Now we're losing 40/50 million and I think of the three scenario's, the sign Greinke long term and he stays healthy, I actually think that's the only one that's going to keep us in a position to win the next 4-5 years and be a perennial contender. And I believe Greinke will look at this team, a team that obviously underachieved a great deal, a city he honestly enjoyed playing in, the close relationship with Melvin, and the fact that we'll have a slew of talented young pitchers coming up, Segura at SS and that our BP can't possibly be as bad as it was and he'll see the potential to contend. And when you break it down, if you throw in a Rogers/Peralta/Thornburg/Fiers, two of those guys into the rotation, you save a significant amount of money from what this years rotation cost. Greinke 13.5/Wolf 10/Marcum 8.5 to Greinke 23 lets say+Fiers 450K+Rogers or whoever 450K. Gallardo will get a bump and I didn't bother to look at it, but it's not 8.5 million. The pen you're in the same situation, Henderson looks like a legit middle reliever, Axford should bounce back, K-Rod may well be back on a one year inventive laden deal and you've got a lot of power arms in AAA/AA and HiA who could figure in shortly. And offensively, Greinke knows this team. Weeks will almost certainly be the playler he's been for the last two months, Gomez is showing signs of becoming a pretty significant player with the upside to be a monster(though nobody should or would count on it). And between Corey, Aram, Braun you know you should get 100 HR's, .300 RBI's and close to a .300 BA in the middle of the order. Lucroy is one of the best hitting catchers in the NL and Maldy is one of the best backup's. And you throw in Segura over Izturis and the other crap and a guy like Mr. Greinke could big very big for us. ---I don't see another team signing him in this division. The Cubs are trying to dump Garza. Why not just re-sign him. Houston is so far away, the Brook Central HS team is closer to competing than the Astro's. STL simply doesn't need to with Miller and Martinez to go with Garcia/Carp who'll be back/Waino/Lohse, Kelly and whatever average minor leaguer pitches like Mike Fiers has(we get one, they get one of him a year it seems like). NL East- Wash-Rotation in locked and loaded ATL-Never spend and they've got young arms. Philly-Looking to ship Lee to stay under luxury tax. Miami-Already blew their wad and are cutting costs again. NYM-MAYBE...MAYBE they look at their team and figure Santana/Dickey/Greinke/Harvey/Niese and or Wheeler are enough to contend. Not sure where they're at fiscally though. They also had to address Wright soon. NL West- The ONLY team out here that has a chance to me and is a strong contender is LA. Management will spend money, but they have Ethier they have to pony up for as well as a few extensions, but with that lineup, Kershaw/Greinke/Billingsley they'd be very good. So I really think it'll come down to the Dodgers-Who would be putting themselves up against the luxury tax likely if they choose to re-sign Ethier which is likely. And then teams I believe we'll be able to compete with UNLESS the Rangers lose the WS again and decide just to go for it with all their new revenue. But you're talking about spending potentially the 250 Hamilton has been rumored to get and if you add in Greinke, that's nearly 400 million for two players, one a pitcher(always risk involved) and another a guy with drug issues and serious health concerns in terms of being a durable every day player). Then Baltimore, Seattle, Toronto, KC.... Someone tell me if they think I'm crazy, but I honestly don't see the 6 year 144 million dollar market for Greinke when you look at the traditional power houses having either spent a ton last year, or being worried about getting dinged for the luxury tax and a significant hit if they signed someone like Greinke. I think he goes on the market, and I think if the Brewers are willing to go 5 years 115 with a 6th year vesting option...say 500 innings the last 3 years or 850 innings the life of the deal or a mutual option with a 6 million dollar buyout..whatever with the 6th year being for 25 million and you're looking at 6 years 140 potentially with 5 years and 120 guaranteed...and I think in the end just given the landscape, unless a team like Toronto throws out crazy money(and he's smart enough to know about the huge tax difference) or a team that thinks they need that vet to lead their young guys who are on the cusp like KC...I honestly think we're a realistic contender, UNLIKE when we knew that the Yankees where ABSOLUTELY going to get CC and would pay whatever it took to get him. Thoughts.... TL;DR

http://truth2powerdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/citizencain.jpg?w=604

It all depends on the return. I think Hart is expendable regardless so I would ship him out, targeting young SP/3B/RF. If we could pull off a Gio/Cahill-type trade with Yo and get back a young potential stud SP, I'd consider it. If ARI wanted to do another one of these this offseason, I'd definitely be interested in one of Bauer/Skaggs. Now I doubt ARI wants to get rid of those two but hey, I didn't think they'd get rid of Parker last year either. I think this team could contend next year, depending on what they do with their pitching. Obviously the bullpen needs to be upgraded but I also don't want to count on the likes of Fiers/Estrada as our #2/3 options. They might be pitching well this year but I don't know how much that will hold up next year. All in all, I will always consider trading someone if the return exceeds the value of what we ship out. What defines value is another discussion, however.

im stating my thought from this point, not based on a what-if of the future. right now, he's not worth risking an offer of $13,500,000 Okay but you said he hadn't pitched since mid-June. He threw a bullpen session today so he could be back on track. I don't think there was any structural damage so if he pitches again at all this year and is even Wolf-esque, I'd still probably give him the offer. I think he's a good enough pitcher that he would be valuable again next year, assuming he doesn't decline the offer.

Not true. That 60 day DL was backdated so I believe he's eligible to come off in mid-August. He even pitched a 20 min bullpen session today.

What if Marcum comes back mid to late August and pitches like he has all year? I think I'd still give him the offer. If he turns it down, draft pick. If not, good starter for next year. I think I'd take the risk considering how much it would cost to sign a FA of his caliber.

http://mlblogscountingbaseballs.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/huh.jpg

Actually, some of the moderators have recently made posts to this effect. It's usually easy to see when someone obviously has an opinion on something. But the way you post, you post as if it is a fact. Not only is it misleading but it can also be seen as antagonistic since you're shooting down other people's opinions (i.e. Narveson has a shot to compete next year) with your opinion, which is stated as a fact.

...and yet again. Narveson will not be competing for a starting rotation spot next year folks... Long relief will be the only way he helps us, and even that possibility is remote given his age and the severity of his injuries/surgery. Stop stating things as facts if they are not. Even if there is a 99% probability that Narveson isn't back, that still isn't a fact that he will miss all year, at least until stated otherwise. Sure he probably won't be competing for a spot in ST but he got hurt early enough this year that there is a possibility he's back early enough.

Come on people, for the last time, it is L-u-c-r-o-y. Only one capital letter at the beginning like most last names. If you're a fan of this team, you should be able to spell a player's name. It's not that difficult.