JJHardy7

Money did say on a pre-game interview that Mat's issue early this season had to do with his pre-pitch stance, which lead to a number of fielding errors. I donj't think it was addressed last year at all, you should re-check your timeline, then re-read my post. The issue Macha and Randolph are addressing is after he fields the ball he comes up too upright when setting to throw. This has nothing to do with his pre-pitch stance. I know the timeline. I've talked to Money about it. Money and Co. (which includes coaches in spring training) found more 'flaws' in spring training. He's still a work in progress with the coaches and such. It also does have a lot to do with his pre-pitch stance since his footwork was all messed up when he received the ball which let to poor setting position. I'll see if I can find the Nashville links that reported this a few months back. It is believed that his 'ready' position wasn't right and thus put him in bad spots to set up his throw because he had to rush it a bit more due to his 'ready' position. I hope I'm making that make sense. I don't know if that will fix everything, but once Money worked with him on this he had his 'streak' of error free games in Nashville. I still think with him it's footwork, which is more mental than anything. You need to fact checker. Gamel has started 5 of the last 6, there was only 2 games he didn't appear in. X, you need to relax. Being a PH isn't the same as playing everyday. It's just not IMO. I also think it's different for a player to go from starting everyday to riding the bench to being the DH...all this in his first true taste of the majors. IMO it's just not the same as starting everyday and knowing you'll get your 4 at-bats and play 3B everyday. Over time sure it can be adjusted, but it's probably been a few years since Mat's been on the bench or had this type of role.

Melvin has put little emphasis on defense during his stint with Milwaukee and I get the impression that Gamel is no exception. Good stick, no defense. It's almost inevitable that he'll end up in RF. No truth to this at all. Your 'impression' turns into 'inevitable'? Interesting. He's made strides at 3B. I'd be shocked if he's moved. He's better than Braun ever was at 3B -- not that is saying all that much. He has a huge and I do mean huge arm. Comments like these are why I think some should check in on the minor league teams and such before being posted. There's no question that Gamel can play 3B in a tools aspect. It's just a matter of when it's the right time to call him up. He has all the tools to play 3B. I do admit he may not stick at 3B, but please can we stop the 'move Gamel' type posts and it's inevitable. Nobody is working harder on defense than Mat. The Brewers have to figure out what the heck they're doing here. You either play him or send him to AAA. He's been the worst used top prospect in the Melvin era IMO. A guy that needs work and at-bats doesn't need to be sitting on the bench. He's the third best hitter on this team today IMO. Play him or send him down. It's really that simple. He has nothing to gain by sitting on the bench or having a PH. To me, it just seems that the Brewers don't know what to do with him because they are afraid to hurt Hall's feelings.

After today's game, Mat's batting average has dropped to .174. However, his BABIP is hovering around .230. So you can argue he has had some tough luck as well. I'd put zero weight into his batting numbers since he's pretty much riding the pine. He's doing well in his limited role. Gamel has not just Randolph but also Ken Macha working with him on his defense. They've already identified a flaw, he comes too upright after fielding the ball, which gives him poor balance on his throws. Both of these men are terrific teaching fundamentals. I'm sure Money is good too, but a minor league manager has a ton of other responsibilities, so he spread a little thin. Those flaws were pointed out last year. Mat made a comment in a Nashville paper earlier this year that his biggest problem was 'not being ready' and in part that led to him in strange positions when he got to the ball. I'm not saying Randolph and Macha suck, but Gamel's issues have been identified in the past. He just needs more work.

Salome isn´t hitting as well as he did in the past because of his back problems. I don't think he's having back problems anymore.

Well, I don't think anyone is suggesting calling Salome up yet this year (barring injury or a September call up) but for next year I really hope he's a viable option to make the team. I guess that's what you're getting at, though. Hopefully he'll turn things around this season. He has plenty of time. I wasn't getting at him being called up this year. I just won't pencil him in for next year. I know it's still somewhat early, but the AAA season ends a month earlier than MLB. Salome will have three more months to show what he can do so in other words his season is 2/5 over more or less. There are questions about his defense and until he rakes at AAA I don't see him as a viable option for the beginning of 2010. Again, I really like Salome so I really hope he gets it going.

Yeah, I'd take any of those listed players over Redd any day of the week. Redd can score, but he dominates the ball too much and does nothing to create for his teammates or make other people better. I'd take less ppg from one player if it means better ball flow and involving everyone else, not to mention Redd's lack of effort on the other side of the ball. I'll agree to disagree on you opinion since I don't personally feel that's true. I'd ask you this though...how do the Bucks get some of those players? The only answer IMO is free agency or trades. They'd have to pay more than any other team and some would call that player garbage, overpaid, etc, etc. Or we trade. In order to trade, you need assets that other teams want...that means making smart draft picks. There's a reason why Redd has been an Olympian and an all-star. There's also a reason why this team loses and I don't think I'd blame that on Redd. Milwaukee needs to draft well and overpay to keep the player or trade the player. It's not an easy task IMO. Nobody would choose to play in Milwaukee IMO. You either need to draft very well, trade very well, or have a once in a lifetime pick like a LeBron player who grew up in Wisconsin. The Bucks will be moved in 5 years or less unless something 'good' happens for this organization IMO.

No chance Salome will be ready by that point? I'm not sure at this point. I really like Salome and think he'll be fine with the bat long-term, but he didn't make the strides I was hoping he would so far this year at AAA. I'm wondering if there's a lingering injury. I'd be willing to give up the defense and start Salome because he has shown that his bat plays. If we could get Mauer type production (his upside) from the catcher position with average to below average defense, that would yield a lot better than whatever Jason Kendall brings to the table. And yes, I know Salome is struggling this year at the plate, but I'll trust his full body of minor league work over 1.5 months. If you can't hit AAA, you're probably not going to hit MLB. I really like Salome, but I'd be much happier giving him time to work on his defense and offense at AAA. It could be a disaster to have him up if he's struggling with both. I know Mat isn't the best example, but he raked at AAA. Salome has not come close to that. Again, I like Salome, but I'd rather wait to see him start raking until I pencil him in at the beginning of 2010. Rivera and Corporan are ready IMO since they're able to handle the defensive side and also provide enough offense IMO. I'll clarify that by saying I'd start Rivera and have Corporan catch 1 or 2 times a week.

I guess another question is who will be the Brewers catcher in 2010? I'd have to guess it'll be Rivera and Corporan at this point.

Then who is going to score? If you take those two out, even if you keep CV (which you probably won't because he will make more than $6M per year) the average ppg for the remaining group is about 80ppg. Not many teams are going to win many games averaging 80ppg. I agree. I also think some are not seeing the 'whole picture'. Who wants to come and play for the Bucks? Some think signing Redd was dumb, getting Jefferson was dumb, etc. Well...I don't recall players lining up to play for the Bucks. Sure I wish that Redd wasn't a max contract guy. He's very good, but IMO max guys are limited to the top 5 or 10 guys in the league. None of them will ever be in Milwaukee unless they're drafted or traded. Redd seems to like Milwaukee and sure maybe we paid him too much...that's the case with any free agent that will ever come to Milwaukee (at least free agents that will be all-stars, etc). Again, I'll never get the Redd hate. danzig -- how are the Bucks supposed to get guys to play here? They have to draft well because they will go against what you want in free agency because simply nobody will play in Milwaukee unless they're paid a premium. The franchise isn't a 'winner', has little history, and players have to live in the midwest during the winter. The T-Wolves and the Bucks are kind of in the same boat.

Kevin Durant was fourth amongst SF's despite playing for a terrible Thunder team. Jose Calderon was fourth amongst PG's despite playing for a bad Toronto team. Don't your links kind of show how this is not objective? Durant is ranked the second most overrated in one, but in another he is one of the best SF? Dallas - Lottery (Nowitzki), Antawn Jamison traded for the 5th pick Devin Harris. Harris traded for Jason Kidd. Trading Harris for Kidd was a terrible trade. That will set the Mavs back quite some time. I wouldn't give them any credit for that. Again, trying to win now while rebuilding at the same time never works and it never will. I don't agree with this. The Bucks can do it. NBA teams can do it. Look at the lottery picks the Bucks have had in the past few years. When they haven't traded it, they've bene in the lottery along with all the other teams you've mentioned. I would say the Bucks have failed (to this point) to draft well in the lottery the past few years. I still have hope for Joe Alexander, but no doubt they could've taken a guy that would've had a lot more impact this year. Drafting Yi led to RJ's big contract, but we got to dump Simmons. It wasn't a bad pick, but it prevented the Bucks from getting a somewhat cheap player for a few years. It wasn't a terrible trade either, but given RJ's contract and the dumping of Simmons it's somewhat of a push in that manner. It would still be nice to have young, talented, cheap players to go along with Redd and Bogut...that could lead to winning now and rebuilding. I think the draft has been the Bucks biggest failure.

That is certainly nothing special for a corner outfielder but suggesting he be benched in favor of Cat is short sighted. What about putting Jody there? If this team is willing to make moves to win (as evidence by demoting Nelson and calling Gamel up to ride the pine), why not bench Hart when he isn't playing well? If a guy is struggling, I don't see a problem with him sitting on the bench a few games. If this team really wants to win, it will put Hart on the bench when he sucks. For as much talk as 'picking spots', I think a 150 games is a fair way to judge a somewhat veteran player. If it's not, then the Brewers aren't looking to win games. We're not talking about 20 games or something like that. I'm not saying we should DFA Hart. I am saying if he's not producing there's no reason he can't ride the pine for a few games. He obviously has not made adjustments. Hart isn't a bad player. He might be average or so, but his skill set isn't what this team needs right now. They need guys that can get on base.

I'm happy he's rejected extension offers...so I guess that means I'm worried. I hate to say it, but I just don't see him with the Brewers long-term and that's not because of Hart's choice. I love Gamel as much as the next guy and I really, really hope he stays at 3B...however RF might be open faster than 1B if he doesn't stick at 1B.

Kidd is easily better than Redd, as is Millsap and Prince. Again, where's your proof? You just can't state your opinion like it's fact. The facts posted a few pages ago by homer and sam state that Redd is a pretty darn good player. If you take Redd and put him on let's say the Kings, my guess is he'll come close to averaging 30 ppg. Does that make him worse or better than how he played on the Bucks this year? As far as Kidd being a better defender, I don't see it. He was abused this year. I'm not saying Redd is awesome at defense. I just don't think it's a slam dunk that Kidd is anywhere near above average on defense. He got abused and that's due to his age. He WAS a great player, but IMO he's not there anymore and PGs abuse him because he's lost foot speed.

They also let you tailgate in Huntsville, and you can't in Nashville. Uhhhh...you can't?

I'm not going to compare him to stars, because Redd is not a star. Joe Johnson signed a 5 year $70 million contract, he's better than Redd. Kevin Martin signed a 5 year $55 million contract, Josh Howard signed a 4 year $40 million contract, Rip Hamilton signed a 3 year $34 million extension, Stephen Jackson signed a 4 year $35 million extension, Danny Granger signed a 5 year $60 million contract. Those players are all comparable to or better than Redd and signed for much less. Well compare top 20 players then. Again, these players are all better in your opinion. That doesn't make it a fact. I don't see why people whine about his contract. At that point and time things were different. Teams were spending money like it was on fire. That's not the case now. Given how the NBA works they would've lost Redd for nothing or kept him at the max deal. I like how some argue that it's so 'obvious' they shouldn't have done that. Why? Because he's a top 20 player based on actual metrics? Given the circumstances I sign Redd to that deal 100 out of 100 times. There's much more to whine about with Danny G, Bobby Simmons, Mo Williams, and some bad trades. Redd is on the bottom of the list of things to whine about in regard to the Bucks. There is evidence that he's a Top 20 player. I don't know what there is to whine about in that regard. To be a Top 20 player in the league with the point guards Redd has played with, is really saying something IMO. Redd was luck his contract came up when it did and he's lucky that the Bucks HAD to give him that contract because other teams would've or came close. IIRC the Cavs came as close as they could to matching, but given the salary cap and such couldn't. Again, you get Redd or nothing. I'd take Redd.

Essentially, Redd as the #1 option is good for about 40 wins give or take, good enough to sneak into the playoffs in the East, but comparatively mediocre and fairly uninteresting. For a guy paid like a true #1, that's pretty dissapointing. Quick -- name the great players Redd has played with in his career as a starter...uhhhh...well...hmmmm. At least that's my initial reaction. He hasn't played with scrubs, but Milwaukee has failed to bring in another player or two. When the 'Big 3' were crushing teams...they had 3 all-star level players. It's rare for guards/forwards to carry a team (I know it can happen), but it's exactly what those three did. Redd has never played with anyone as talented as the 'Big 3'. I'm not saying he's played with crappy players. They just haven't found the right mix. RJ might be the most talented player he's played with. I loved TJ, but injuries and such didn't help his career in Milwaukee. Maybe I'm missing someone, but they've really struggled to get another PG or SF to play with Redd over the years that is at an all-star level. And it's not because of his contract. I guess I just don't see how an Olympian, All-Star, etc. is such a bad guy or player to have on your team. I know it's a max contract. You can sign a lot of Top 20 guys, but if you don't have the right players around them it won't matter. Again, you put Redd and Billups on the same team my guess is the current roster + Billups gets home court. Redd can get this team close to the playoffs most years, but I do agree in order to win a championship he does need help. There are only a handful of players in the league that will have great seasons with mediocre talent. Those are probably top 5 players and Redd is not that. How is it so bad that Redd gets the team to 40 wins or so? It'd be bad if he had other talent around him like I mentioned, but he just hasn't. Mo Williams wasn't a good fit. Again, the 'Big 3' had the right formula in a way. I haven't seen anything close to that in terms of talent at the 1, 2, and 3 spots. It also places the team in perpetual limbo- never advancing past the first round, rarely striking gold in the lottery. Since/when Redd has become a starter (2003): TJ Ford 2003 (#6 overall), Bogut 2005 (#1), Yi 2007 (#6), and Joe Alexander 2008 (#8) have been the first round picks. None of those have help Redd in the backcourt and trading picks doesn't help. I don't see how that is Redd's fault that the Bucks have not drafted correctly or have traded too many frist round picks. I would imagine the bigger problem is that Redd has only had 4 first round picks during his career as a starter. Kind of hard to call that being 'in limbo'. I really like Bogut and at the time can't argue against that pick. I would say though that if the Bucks took Chris Paul I don't think there would be any discussion of how Redd 'sucks'.

Nobody ranks Redd as a top 50 player. Off the top of my head, players that are better. We've played this game before. Go back some pages and look at some links that were posted by homer and sam. It ranks Redd as a top 20 player. You're opinion is your opinion. It just doesn't exactly match what links were posted. You can pull whatever 'numbers' you want for you opinion, but your opinion isn't the normal rationale, which is fine. There is much more support stating that Redd is a top player than mentioning a long list of players and saying that they're better than Redd. There aren't a lot of shooting guards or small forwards I would trade straight up in order to 'get rid' of Redd. Is he a number 1 guy? I think he could be. He just can't be the #1 guy on a crappy team...and that goes with a lot of players. He's not LeBron or Kobe, but that doesn't mean he sucks. There is also no way Love is better than Redd.

2 guards who can shoot are a dime a dozen in the league, same as swing men who can slash and score. Redd may be above average, but he's no where near on the level of the elite 2-guards in the league -- of which there are 2, Kobe and D-Wade, imho. Why is Redd ranked as a top 20 player in the league though (or he was when healthy)? See the links in this thread. Nobody has yet to answer that question, but I'm sure it will be the stats are flawed, Redd stinks, etc. etc. Again, my point is each team in the finals has a guy that can flat out score. Redd's game was top 20 in the league by some folks (again see the links on the prior pages). I don't see why Redd being the highest paid player = the Bucks suck by some. I think the problem is you pay Danny G a ton of money and the other bad contracts that are or were on the team. Give Redd and the Bucks a good PG and I think this is a different story. I believe there was a thread here on bf.net that questioned why in the world the Bucks would want Billups an off-season or two ago. I think that right there says enough about what some 'Bucks fans' think about the team. I respect that opinion, but that's a prime example of not knowing how to build a team. It's a guard league. Team up Redd with a guy like Billups and this team gets home court throughout. Redd is a good player. Again, look at the record with Redd and without Redd. What does that say? That Redd might actually have value? There's no way this team if healthy is a 7th or 8th seed. They would've pushed for home court. Again, the Bucks (or any other team) can't dump contracts at the flip of a coin now. Anyone who expects that or thinks that will happen will be disappointed. Most NBA teams have spent way too much and are waiting until next off-season and until then all want to dump salary...but the economy hasn't helped that...at all. The Bucks aren't perfect and it probably starts with ownership. I do think it's nice to have a guy like Redd who is an Olympian and all-star and WANTS to be in Milwaukee. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it'll be more than few years until that happens again with one player.

woelfel has the bucks taking flynn in his first mock, i'd be fine with that but he screams shawn respert to me. Wasn't Respert a 2 in college though? I don't know if it's a fair comparison. Because Garnett is 10x the player Redd is. That's probably why. 10x? Really? I do not get the hate for Redd. He was lucky enough that at the time he signed his deal max contracts were 'the thing to do'. He would've gotten that money from somewhere else. Look at the four teams left in the playoffs. Now I am NOT comparing Redd directly to these guys...so please don't call me crazy. You need guys in the league that can score. Each team left has guys that can flat out score - Bryant, 'Melo, LeBron, and Lewis - who play can play the 2 or 3. Again, I'm not comparing Redd directly to these guys. Out of the four left, I think the scenario/team that would really make sense for the Bucks to follow would be Denver. If you have a Billups type PG, Redd would be a stud with that guy. I think one of the main problems Redd has had the past few years is that he Bucks haven't had an elite PG. It's a guard league now and that's exactly why Redd shouldn't be getting all the hate. He would've most likely been an all-star this year since it seemed for the first time in awhile we had some solid PGs around him. You need guys in the league that can flat out score. Based on some comments here you'd think fans would love to just release Redd if it didn't have a cap hit. That doesn't make any sense and this Bucks team would not be able to find a scorer. I'd knock on a guy like CV before I would Redd. EDIT - Great points LouisEly.

The Brewers have completely misused Gamel for the past few weeks. He's got six at bats and one game at third. How in the heck is he getting any better by rotting on the bench? Macha will seemingly find any excuse not to play him. If this is the way Macha is going to misuse his top prospects, I would rather have anyone, even Brad Nelson, on the team then see someone of Gamel's caliber waste away. Agreed. I guess I understand views here, but I've seen first hand parts of last year and more this year of Mat's big improvement with his glove. I think it's a flat out joke to remove him from that learning opportunity. It could've been Nelson, Duffy, Julio, etc. To me, it's a huge deal when an organization has a poor plan for their top hitting prospect and also lose a cheap bench option in the process. Gamel has made big time strides and he doesn't need to have his hand held in the 'bigs'. He's a big-time hitter. 'Getting his feet' wet is wrong too. This is a new formula for top hitting prospects in the Brewers organization. You either give Gamel the job or send him to AAA. And kramnoj Gamel will play now...but we know he can hit. I don't doubt that one bit and I really don't care about it because it's not an issue. The issue is his defense. Sitting on the bench doesn't help that nor does losing a player so Gamel can get his 'butt wet' by sitting on the bench. Having him on the bench while Hall is back to being Hall just doesn't make sense to me. If Yost would've said, 'I made a promise to Bill' there would be a thread 10 pages long about it. If the Brewers want to win X, they'd be better off finding a plan for Gamel. There are all these 'options' for bench spots yet the Brewers were maybe the only team to offer Cat and made a trade today for depth. It's clear the Brewers are pretty worried about their bench. The easiest answer is to give Gamel the starting job at 3B and move Hall to super sub. For the record, I think Gamel is the 3rd best hitter on the team. I don't know if he has the power that Braun has, but I do think that Braun and Gamel will be the faces of the franchise going forward. Let's not keep one on the bench. You either develop the player or you start the player. Gamel is probably one of the best bench players in all of baseball now...problem is that hurts his value and it's not going to make a big difference right now if he's on the bench in Milwaukee or anywhere else in terms of wins. For his development, he should be playing everyday.

They did have a very clear plan. They wanted to make their bench better and ease Gamel into the Majors before he DH's in interleague play. Easing him by sitting him? Makes sense. He's been in the bigs before. It's not like he's a little kid that has to be shown how to get to the ballpark or hit a baseball. He should be playing everyday...period. Guys like Duffy should be sitting on the bench. You can disagree with that plan, but the Brewers are too busy trying to win the WS to listen to such a trivial complaint. So they're in the playoffs and in the WS in May? Good to know. Moves like this are why teams either get in or don't win a few games. I sometimes forget X that you claim to be always right. WS it is. It's nice to have you be condescending also. Also, the Brewers have found a major upgrade over Nelson. Jody Gerut's career MLB OPS is about the same as Nelson's career MILB OPS, and Gerut is a good defensive OF. I agree. Gerut is better than Nelson. The problem is this deal happened today...not last week. Again, what was the plan? Have Gamel rot on the bench as he was making huge strides at 3B? I just see zero logic in that 'plan'. If they made this trade today and Nelson was let go because of the trade, that makes sense. That is a plan. Putting your best hitting prospect on the bench is not a plan. He was making huge strides with Money. I still get the feeling that Gamel will be shipped back to AAA after all this...which would point out again the Brewers really don't have a plan with him. He should be starting over Hall. If he's in the bigs, let him play...and don't lose a player of the 25-man because you lack a plan.

Does anyone know what kind of speed Jody has? Is he average or above average in CF?

The hand wringing that we got nothing for him was most likely due to there not being anything to get for him. I just want to make it clear that I'm not upset that we didn't get anything for him. I just think it's a move that didn't have a plan. Getting rid of anyone on the 25-man so Gamel sits on the bench to me does not indicate the team has a plan. Calling Gamel up period to sit on the bench is a bad move. Losing a guy because of that seems like a lack of direction.

Now your making my argument for me. Nelson is way down on the depth chart, we have lots of better options, with more developing. My point is losing someone on the 25-man so Gamel can sit on the bench is just not smart. To me, it shows a lack of planning. How do we have 'lots of better options'? If that was the case, Cat wouldn't have been signed. I'll just agree to disagree X. I'm not saying that Nelson will be a starter or anything like that. I just think it was a strange move to make. Why even put him on the 25-man to start the season?

The plan was to send Gamel down after the next series. Iribarren obviously was to be the replacement. How can you say that? Cat is/was the replacement for Nelson. You can't pretend the Weeks injury was part of this plan. There were blogs on the JS indicating that when the time for a decision on Cat came it very well would be Nelson moved...not he Hurricane. Without the Weeks injury, I don't see Iribarren in Milwaukee. That's not a knock on him though.