fleehaw

I'm just going off of the rumor that Turnbow has drawn interest. I believe I read it on some other thread here that baseball people think it's just a mechanical flaw with Turnbow & that it can be fixed. Something he picked up from talking to too many people at the all-star game or something.

Darren Ford played CF at West Virginia this year. Speed & more speed, over 60 SBs. Decent avg, Ks alot. Gives the Angels a possible replacement for Matthews down the road.

Sorry, I ran out of room in the title. Perhaps, this could get some legs.

Ok, so I'm still hung up on the idea of Santana in the middle of the rotation & Rivera roaming LF. When's the last time there was a 4-team trade? I don't know, but I like this one, and I think it addresses the needs of all 4 teams (Boston, White Sox, Angels, & Brewers) & is pretty fair. Here goes: Boston trades: Manny, Lowell, & Crisp Boston receives: Hall, KRod, Jenkins, Tbow, & Aybar White Sox trade: Crede & young RP (Tracey) White Sox receive: Figgins & Lowell Angels trade: Santana, KRod, Rivera, Figgins, & Aybar Angels receive: Manny, Crede, ZachJack, Tracey, Darren Ford (or similar prospect) & $$$(from MIL) Brewers trade: Hall, Jenkins, Tbow, Jackson, Ford, & $$$ Brewers receive: Santana, Rivera, & Crisp Boston suddenly becomes young & talented on the IF, saves $$$ in the long run, & sets themselves up nicely for the free agent bonanza next year. They get a very good closer, & possibly one heck of a setup guy. Bullpen becomes less of a concern, rotation looks solid, offense should be adequate with a nice trio of Ortiz, Hall, & Drew. White Sox for some reason have been linked to Figgins. So, they finally get him. Lowell is nothing more than a solid stop gap until Fields? is ready. The Angels deal from positions of strength (SP & RP) or of spare/blocked parts (Figgins & Aybar). They receive one of the best hitters in the game, address an area of need (3B), and get some young guys to fill in the ranks. The Brewers give up a young star in Hall, a couple of nice prospects, a couple of veterans looking to bounce back, & some $$$. They address all of their areas of need except the bullpen (This can be addressed by the trade of one of their OF-Mench). Acquiring Santana gives them one of the best rotations in the NL. Rivera at the very least should be solid and post #s close to Lee's career avg. & much better defensively. Crisp shores up CF, and goes back to hitting #2 behind Weeks. Weeks & Crisp will remind people alot of Sizemore & Crisp. Both Crisp & Rivera play good defense & don't K much, just what the Brewers are looking for. And lastly, these 3 guys are under Brewer control for about 3 more years. Thoughts? Is it a fair deal for all parties? Would you be excited with the '07 Brewers if this trade went down?

In the $60M challenge, I proposed a Davis & Koskie for Ensberg. This was based off a rumor that he was going to the Padres for Linebrink & Blum/Belhorn. So, a Turnbow & Koskie deal seems possible. Ensberg is like 32 or 33, but under arby for another 2 years (I think). He walks a lot, strikes out around 100 times a year, good power, decent with the glove. All in all, it would be a decent move, however, whose going to be playing 3B in a couple years? I could see Ensberg as an improvement over Koskie for a year or two until Braun is ready, but as a long term solution, ehh.

I will add this caveat to support trading Hall. If Hall is traded for the package mentioned above or one similar, I think outside help is needed at CF or 3B. I would be hesistant to go into the season with a Koskie/Cirillo platoon at 3B & a Gross/Clark? in CF. One of those platoons would be fine, like the 3B platoon & Crawford in CF.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

If the Brewers could pull Rivera & Santana for Hall, they would be fools not to do it. Pitching gets a lot better and offense stays the same. Rivera is exactly what the Brewers are looking for. Great defense, doesn't strike out. Here's his '06. G-AB-R-H-HR-RBI-BB-K-OBP-SLG-AVG. 124 448 65 139 23 85 33 59 0 4 .362 .525 .310 It's not far-fetched to believe he would have put up better numbers than Hall if he got another 150 AB, albeit in the OF instead of SS. Plus, he has the same service time as Hall and I believe he's 28. Adding Santana would make the starting pitching a real plus. Best staff in the NL Central for sure (even with the Cubs supposedly signing Schmidt).

Would you make this deal? Is it a fair deal? Why or why not? Hall (can replace Anderson in LF when Wood is ready) Rogers/Jackson/Hammond/Parra Mench (platoon DH & 4-5OF) $2M to the Angels for: Santana Rivera (~28 & same service time as Hall) If the Angels are supposedly about to trade Figgins & Santana for Garcia & Crede, this could interest them. Would your feelings change if these trades preceded it? 1- Clark, Turnbow, & (Dillard or Hurricane) to the Rockies for Jennings. Jennings was rumored to go to Houston for Lidge & Burke. This package is on par. 2- Jenkins, Sarfate, & $2M to the Giants for Hennessey & Taschner. The Giants need OFs, with or without Roberts. 3- Jennings, Hennessey, & (Jackson/Hammond/Parra) to the Devil Rays for Crawford. Alot to pay but worth it. Is it worth giving up 3-4 pitching prospects (not Gallardo or Inman) to make these types of deals? I tried to overvalue the other teams players to help relieve my Brewer goggles. I think it'd be one heck of a team, and affordable too.

11 to 12M each year in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009- + he can earn a 75K bonus for receiving the most All-Star votes in MLB and 50K for receiving the most votes in the AL (however he receives no bonus for actually making the All-Star team)- + he receives a limited NO-TRADE clause that allows him to veto trades to eight teams of his choice (SD is reportedly among those 8 teams)

A little bit more of the silly speculation. Dealing with the Mariners does make some sense. I would target Beltre, Putz, and Adam Jones. Beltre is solid defensively, put up good numbers in the 2 hole last year, and ought to improve offensively at Miller Park. Also, I view his 3 years left on his contract as a plus. Yes, he's overpaid, however, Braun is no sure thing to stick at 3B, and Hall appears destine for the OF. 3B are a bit like left-handed pitching, they're always in demand. If Braun prooves he can handle 3B, then Beltre should be able to be moved, and if Braun can't handle the hot corner, Beltre is under contract thru '09. Putz would be the key to the deal. He was an effective closer last year and this is his first year of arbitration. He could set up for Cordero this year, and take over for him next year. Cordero could be traded at the deadline (like Lee) or offered arbitration and draft picks collected (like Graffinino?). All of those extra high draft picks would certainly be beneficial. Jones is basically Gwynn, but right-handed and with some pop. He could platoon with Gross/Gwynn in '07 and see what shakes out. With Ichiro probably moving to CF, he could be available. Jeremy Reed is also an option, but I would go with Jones because he bats righty. The Brewers would most likely have to take on all of Beltre's salary to get Putz, but they do have some $$$ to spend. A package of Jenkins, Koskie, Turnbow, Jackson/Hammond, & Anderson may get it done, or at least a starting point. It addreses all of the Brewers needs, CF, 3B (assuming Hall is in LF), and the bullpen. Thoughts?

With the acquisition of LaRue, he may be available. His stats aren't anything great, but he's young, cheaper, and has shown some improvenment. With a year of Miller's guidance, Buck could be a long term answer. Of course, that could be the Royals thoughts as well. Would people be satisfied if he was acquired instead of Zaun or of the status quo? I guess it would depend on what is would cost. Maybe Jackson for Buck? Or perhaps a larger deal involving Hall (Buck, DeJesus, & Gobble?).

Igor, I like that idea. Jenkins, Koskie, Tbow & cash for Beltre & Putz.

I guess it would all depend on what was given up. Beltre & $$$$ for Jenkins & Koskie might be worth the gamble. I think Beltre had a pretty nice second half last year. Doesn't he also play a decent 3B. Also, I'd imagine that his #s would improve by playing 1/2 his games at Miller Park. The drawback is that he's signed thru '09 at about $11M per and has a limited no trade clause (don't know if the Brewers are one of the 8 teams).

Wasn't Nomar a hack at 3b? I don't really remember, but thought that was the case.

Brett Just to play devil's advocate. Are you saying you wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the Young & El Duke for Vazquez deal? Hindsight is 20-20, but at the beginning of the year it seemed like the Sox had a steal with this one.

I agree that Hall is probably the Brewers best bet at 3B right now. However, Hall is one of the Brewers with the highest trade value and most versatility. So, if Hall is moved to CF, SS, or traded, I would hope 3B would be addressed by some other means. I mention Ensberg because he was rumored to be on the block at the deadline. One such rumor, had him going to the Padres for Linebrink and Blum/Belhorn. Also, given that he underachieved in '06, he could be a candidate to be moved this offseason. Someone else proposed a Davis for Ensberg swap. I like it. A swap of the '06 underachievers. Ensberg mans 3B for a season or two and then hopefully Braun takes over. Meanwhile, this would allow Hall to either move to CF or SS, or trade him for a young pitcher (perhaps an Ervin Santana type). With Braun in the wings, I would trade Hall & Davis for Santana & Ensberg. Pay the piper for Carl Crawford and suddenly the Brewers are the team to beat in the central.

I would like to see Hart & Gross in the COF spots next year. Hart is almost a lock. As far as Gross goes, I'd like to see him prove he can/can't hit lefties. Give him a decent leash and if he can't hack it, platoon him with Clark/Rotino/Mench... Let me add this caveat. For me to be happy with Gross playing everyday, CF would have to be upgraded. Whether it be a trade (Crawford/Wells) or move Hall. If Hall is moved to CF, I'd like to see an upgrade at 3B (Ensberg?).

That would be an interesting deal involving Hall & Bonderman. If I had my choice, I would much rather have Ervin Santana than Bonderman. I would think the Angels would have interest in Hall (3B) and seem to be a better match up with the Brewers. If the Brewers do decide to deal Hall for a pitcher like a Bonderman or Santana, I would like to see them shore up 3B, perhaps in a deal of underperformers, Davis to Houston for Ensberg? Anyways, it should be an interesting offseason, and it'll be equally interesting to see the trade value of those getting dealt.

Yes, in fact they'll make a few. Here's a few ideas with my latest and last $60M roster challenge. p092.ezboard.com/fbrewers...1&stop=112 It's towards the bottom.

Okay, I decided to give this one more shot. I came up with a team that I would like a lot, and should be pretty competitive. I tried to make the trades reasonable, probably giving up more than I think I should to compensate for my Brewer goggles. I have the Brewers building their 2007 team mainly thru trade, with one mid-level free agent signed and a couple guys resigned. I also realize this scenario is unlikely because it would make Melvin one very busy man this off-season. Trade 1: Jenkins, Hendrickson & $3M cash to the Giants for Brad Hennessey. The Giants will lose at least one OF, perhaps 2. Jenkins looks pretty good at $4M as opposed to picking up Finley?s option at $7M. Plus, Jenkins is a SoCal guy, a decent bet to rebound at least a bit, and Hendrickson is a throw-in. The Giants can?t think too highly of Hennessey since Jamey Wright was in the rotation instead of him. The Brewers begin to thin out the OF and get a nice young pitcher. Trade 2: Davis and Koskie to the Astros for Morgan Ensberg. The Astros were apparently mulling a deadline deal of Linebrink and Blum/Belhorn for Ensberg. I would much rather have DD and Koskie than those guys. Add in a clause about Koskie. If he can?t play, the Brewers pick up his $2M price tag and the Astros can pick from a list of prospects (mid-level guys like a Crabbe or Moss). The Brewers add power to their lineup in a swap of guys who underperformed in ?06. Trade 3: Mench, Turnbow, & Hennessey to the Indians for Westbrook & Betancourt. The Brewers cut some fat in Mench & Turnbow in actually a pretty fair swap of salaries. It?s questionable if the Indians have the money to resign Westbrook in ?08, so instead, they get a nice young pitcher, an average OF who could at the very least platoon with Choo, and a former all-star closer to hopefully bolster the backend of the bullpen. The Brewers get a solid SP who had a good year last year and a solid setup guy. Some Brewer fans might prefer Hennessey to Westbrook, to them I say, keep reading. Trade 4: Westbrook, Capellan, Hammond, and $2M to the Rays for Carl Crawford. Oh, my white whale. The Rays get mostly what they were after, a very solid SP (who will look mighty nice behind Kazmir), a decent reliever who has the potential to be a dominant closer, and a good young pitcher in the minors in case Westbrook bolts after the year. It?s a lot to give up for the Brewers, but I think it?ll be worth it. Crawford is only 25-26 and still getting better. The cash is to help even out the salaries. Trade 5: Hall, Zach Jack, & Fermaint to the Angels for Santana, Aybar, & Mathis. The Angels get their big bat to assist Guerrero, plus keep some of their pitching depth with a young guy with options and possibly a CF of the future. In addition, with Hall at 3B, Wood can develop and his own pace and take over for Cabrera in a couple years. The Brewers get a very good young pitcher, a young catcher to put at AAA and hopefully can share time with Rivera next year, and also an AAA SS prospect who can provide depth in case Hardy gets injured or doesn?t perform. Trade 6: Gwynn to the Marlins for Tankersley. The Marlins need a CF and the Brewers get a good young lefty for the bullpen. Free-Agent Signings Danys Baez 2yrs/$5M Baez comes to Milwaukee to help bolster the bullpen with the chance to close games and double his salary with incentives in ?08 if Cordero isn?t resigned. Tony Graffinino 2yrs/$4.5M Adds IF depth with the trade of Hall Jeff Cirillo 1yr/$1M Lineup: 2B Weeks 800K CF Crawford 4.0M RF Hart 400K 1B Fielder 400K 3B Ensberg 6.0M LF Gross 400K SS Hardy 400K C Miller 3.75M Bench: Cirillo 1M Graffinino 2.25M Clark 3.75M Nix 400K Rivera 400K Total: $23.95M Breakdown: The first 3 guys could all be 20-20 guys next year. I like Weeks leading off because his OBP was good and I feel he K?s too much for #2. Crawford on the other hand makes good contact and fits in nice in the 2 hole. 4-6 guys should avg. at least 100 Ks, 100 BBs, and around 30hrs. Ensberg should be able to put up Hall-like #s without as many K?s. I would make Gross prove he can?t hit lefties and give him a decent leash. Put Hardy in the 7 hole and forget the .300, 20 hr talk. As long as he plays great defense and puts up at least Khalil Greene like #s, I?ll be satisfied. Miller and Rivera should be a nice combo and that bench is solid. Notice all 5 OF on the roster can play all 3 OF spots. Defense should be much improved if Weeks can keep it up. Pitchers: Sheets 10M Capuano 4M Santana 4M (not sure if he is, but I?m treating him like a super 2) Bush 400K Villenueva 400K Bullpen: LP Eveland 400K long relief RP Sarfate 400K long relief LP Tankersley 400K RP Betancourt 800K RP Wise 1M RP Baez 2.5M CL Cordero 5.0M Total: $29.3M 5M for Jenkins and Crawford trades Grand Total: $58.25M Pitching should be great if people stay healthy. That rotation is very good and the bullpen should be improved. Also, no long term baggage and the minors are still stocked. Braun can take over for Ensberg in ?08 or ?09 and Gallardo, Inman, and Rogers are all still in the organization. This team should be improved in the speed and defense categories; it would become the team to beat in the central.

Hey sbrylski, I read your updated scenario. I like the thought process. It's a team I'd be able to get excited about. I would still love to get my hands on DeJesus or Crawford, but as you mentioned, they'd cost a king's ransom. And as far as Ohka goes, I like him, but am still skeptical of his shoulder. If it was me I might try selling a 1 yr deal with an expensive option or a 2 yr. deal.

"I was talking about my team that I made. Yes, any team with Kapler on it isn't going to be good. " Well for one, it's highly doubtful that any of the trades you proposed would get done. Not one of them seems to be fair value from the other teams standpoint (with the exception of Saltalamacchia, which you offered the moon for). You manage to trade for 4-5 top pitching prospects plus 2 very successful closers and give up spare parts/free agents in return. There's just so many things wrong with your trade proposals it's hard to address each one. But, for example, why would the Twins want Miller when they have Mauer, or Jenkins and Clark when they have Kubel and will most likely pick up Hunter's option. At this point I think they'd rather have Garza in the rotation over Davis. Second, do you really think the Rangers will give up their 2 best pitching prospects for of backup OF, a AAA has-been, and an inconsistent pitching prospect. With 3/5 of your rotation yet to pitch above AA, etc, etc. then you could say the team wouldn't be very good. Young & full of potential, yes.

I agree that Ohka and Westbrook are somewhat similar. However, I'm leery of Ohka's shoulder and Westbrook is about 18 months younger. In addition, Ohka has been topping out in the mid-80's as far as mph (that I've seen) while Westbrook works in the low 90s (91-94 at least in his start at Miller Park). So, that is why I would go with Westbrook instead of Ohka. Also, it clears Jenkins out of the way. I also don't disagree that the Rays typically ask for the moon. However, I do feel that is a solid offer for Crawford, and would be willing to tweak it a bit if necessary. I covet Crawford or DeJesus to play CF for the Brewers, so a reasonable package to bring either one in would be fine by me. As far as the bullpen, I kept Helling and GG for inning eaters. They've been decent this year and would allow the 1-inning guys to remain fresh. The back of the bullpen should be good if Turnbow returns to form. I did account for a possible suspect bullpen by keeping a couple solid young bullpen arms at AAA. Overall, it's not the strength of the team, however, I don't consider it a weakness either. One could argue that the bullpen you assembled isn't without fault. Unless Eveland is the garbage guy, you really don't have a long inning reliever. Perhaps if we combined our pens together we'd really have something. It just comes down to what people consider important when putting together a team. And when you think about it it's kinda interesting to see how people use that $60M differently.

Here's my updated one. '06 offseason: Clark to the White Sox for Tracey Jenkins, Capellan, & Eveland + $3M cash to the Indians for Westbrook. Decline Westbrooks' option, resign 3yr/$20M (6,7,7). The Indians have been in the market for a corner OF and Jenkins at $4M isn't bad at all. Add in a solid BP guy which they need and a young SP and it's plausible. Westbrook looked real good at MP early this year. Bush, Hendrickson, & Rogers to the Devil Rays for Crawford. This one could actually get it done. Sign Davis 2yr/$11M (5,6) Mench to arby ($4M) Hall to arby ($3M) Cappy to arby ($4M) Resign Shouse ($1M) Resign Cirillo ($1M) Resign Helling & GG (each 1yr/750K) Sign Ray King 2yr/$4M 1b- Fielder 350K 2b- Weeks 700K SS- Hardy 350K 3b- Hall 3.0M LF- Mench 4.0M CF- Crawford 4.0M RF- Hart 350K C- Miller 3.75M Bench: Cirillo ($1M), Gross (350K) gets a good deal of playing time backing up the corners, Rivera (350K), Koskie ($2M), and Krynzel/25th man (350K). Total for the offense: $20.55M Sheets $10M Cappy $4M Westbrook $6M Davis $5M Villenueva/Jackson 350K Bullpen: Turnbow ($2.3M), Cordero ($5M), Wise ($1M), Shouse ($1M), Helling (750K), GG (750K), King ($2M). Tracey and Demaria provide bullpen depth at AAA. Total for pitching: $38.15M 2007 total payroll: $61.7M (incl. $3M for Jenkins) Usual Lineup: Weeks Crawford Mench Fielder Hall Hart Miller Hardy

It?s time to play the $60 million dollar challenge. Build the 2007 Brewers with that payroll. Trade Carlos, resign him, let him walk, you make the call. It looks like the Brewers will have a payroll around that amount next year, so what would you do if you?re Melvin. Try to keep trades somewhat reasonable and keep an eye on the future. Here is mine: ?06 trade deadline Clark to the White Sox for Sean Tracey. Not much of a return, but his salary is gone and CF will be addressed later. Lee and Kolb to the Rangers for Danks, Mench, and Cordero. Danks looks to be a top of the rotation starter. Mench see below. Cordero has had 4 or 5 solid years prior to this not-so-good year. The bullpen needs an overhaul, so say hello to the ?07 version of Dan Kolb (but good), the Brewers pick up his very pricey option ($5M). ?06 offseason Mench & Demaria/Zumalt to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez. This was someone else?s idea that I like a lot. The Pirates need a RF, Mench is cheap and solid. Closers are a bit of a luxury on a bad team. Obtaining Gonzalez allows Yost to play the odds on who will close, the righty Turnbow or the lefty, Gonzalez. Gonzalez given 3 yr. extension identical to Turnbow ($6.5M). Resign Shouse 1yr/$1M and Cirillo 1yr/$1.5M Resign Ohka 1yr/$4.5M with team option for $7M (500K buyout) Sign Davis 2yr/$11.5M with team option for $7M (500K buyout) Arbitration with Hall 1yr/$3M, Capuano 1yr/$4M. I went a little on the high end with the arby numbers just to err on the side of caution. Either one of these guys could get a multiyear deal. Hall, see Figgins or Chad Tracy. Capuano, see Webb or Lowry. Eveland/Jackson, Dillard, & Cruz to the Royals for DeJesus. The Royals wanted to build around DeJesus, but this deal is too good for them to pass up. Cruz will team up with Butler and Gordon to form their new offensive core. DeJesus will upgrade the CF position and slide very nicely into the #2 spot in the order (signed a 5yr/13.8M deal last year.) Eveland/Jackson, Wise, & Sarfate/Hendrickson to the Braves for Saltalamacchia. A lot to give up for a prospect, but Miller isn?t getting any younger. An organizational position of weakness just turned into a position of strength. 2007 Roster 1B- Fielder 350K 2B- Weeks 650K SS- Hardy 350K 3B- Koskie 2.0M C- Miller 3.75M LF- Hart 350K CF- DeJesus 2.0M RF- Jenkins 7.0M Bench: Cirillo 1.5M Hall 3.0M Rivera (possibly Saltalamacchia) 350K Gross 350K 25th man 750K SP Sheets 10.0M Cappy 4.0M Ohka 5.0M Davis 6.0M Bush 350K Bullpen Turnbow 2.3M Gonzalez 1.0M Shouse 1.0M Capellan 350K Cordero 5.0M Tracey 350K Helling 1.0M Total $58.75M For the Future I?d like to see Hall platoon with Jenkins in RF in addition to backing up most of the IF. In ?08, hopefully Gross and Hall could platoon in RF after Jenkins? departure. Hall?s numbers won?t be as impressive as a corner OF, but he should be solid defensively and overall the team should be improved. Gwynn will come up and be the 4th/5th OF. Hopefully, one of Villenueva, Danks, Yo, or Hammond will step up and replace Ohka in ?08. Either ?08 & ?09 another one will hopefully replace Davis. Ideally, 2 of them will separate from the crowd next year allowing the possible trade of Davis for prospects or a piece of the puzzle if his production warrants it. All in all the farm system takes a hit at the top, however, the major league club is young and very good. I think sometimes it?s better to weed things out a bit. Make deals with guys you don?t see fitting into your team plan. There?s still plenty of pitching in the minors (Danks, Yo, Hammond, Villenueva, Rogers, & Inman), and some good looking position players (Braun, Salome, Saltalamacchia, Cain?). This would be one heck of a team for years to come.