fleehaw

I'd hope that McClung is in the same boat as Coffey and Julio. Guys that have had a mixed bag of success and that need to prove themselves in spring training. While I think McClung has a very good chance (100% if they don't acquire another SP) at making the roster and currently has an inside track, I would certainly make him prove it and not make decisions (McClung as the closer) based on a couple great outings.

While Floyd might only be an average, middle of the rotation starter, something to remember is that the deal would appear to be centered around Weeks. I like Weeks and I hope for very good things from him, but you have to give up something valuable to get something valuable. This isn't a idea centered around Hardy or Fielder, both of whom would demand much more than Floyd. It also opens up some interesting secondary moves. Perhaps getting Getz included in the deal or revisiting the Hart/Johnson discussions.

I saw a blurb on MLBTR that the White Sox and Orioles are discussing a Gavin Floyd for Brian Roberts swap. If this is true, I'd hope the Brewers would inquire about sending a package built around Weeks for Floyd and Getz.

There are far better defensive metrics for a player than fielding percentage. Overall, Hall was above average defensively last season. Defensively speaking, neither Hall or for that matter Weeks, is the big problem on the Brewers infield, it's Fielder. On offense, Hall has been atrocious. For that reason, 3B is a position that could certainly use an upgrade.

Poor choice of words on my part. How about this? I like Stetter more b/c I see him as being a more versatile pitcher. I have nothing against Shouse. I thought he was a fine pitcher, just that sometimes, IMO, he was mismanaged.

Hall was one of the better defensive 3B last season. His problem isn't his glove, it's his bat. If you replaced Fielder with a above average defensive 1B, I think you'd see a huge improvement from the entire infield. Someone who can pick a short hop or a somewhat errant throw would turn a lot of the previous season's errors into outs.

Let me rephrase then. Outside of Torres, Shouse, Stetter, Riske, and McClung, the '08 bullpen pitched 229 innings and gave up 105 earned runs. This results in a 4.13 ERA. So that leaves a combination of Coffey, Julio, Dillard, Swindle, and DiFelice that needs to post a collective ERA better than 4.13 ERA. That certainly seems plausible. Granted, this doesn't take into account more important statistical measures for a reliever, such as % of inherited runners scored, so take it for what it's worth.

Shouse was very effective when used properly, however, he faced way too many righties in '08 for my taste. IMO, Stetter should be better b/c he's more than just a loogy. I thought it was very telling when it was Stetter instead of Shouse in some high leverage situations at the end of the year.

I count on coffee every single morning to help me get up and go. If you're talking about Todd Coffey, then I think you'll see that he'll have to win a spot in the pen this season. Riske was injured last season; I think you'll see him rebound to near his career numbers and be solid in the set-up role. Below is a very rudimentary comparison between the '08 pen and prospective '09 pen. Obviously, it's mainly conjecture, but it's certainly realistic. '09 Villy = '08 Torres '09 Stetter > '08 Shouse '09 Riske > '08 Riske '09 McClung ~ '08 McClung So that leaves a combination of Coffey, Julio, Dillard, Swindle, and DiFelice that needs to outperform the '08 versions of Gagne, Mota, and Turnbow. It doesn't appear to be a stretch saying that the bullpen is improved. Besides, there is still one more 'name' on the market that would be a welcomed addition to the bullpen and his price should be bottoming out shortly...Juan Cruz. IIRC, the Brewers gave up their first when they signed Damian Miller a few years back so the argument can be made that Melvin will sign a Type A when the situation is right.. The did nab Gallardo in the 2nd in that draft.

By no means was I saying, 'Hart must be traded.' But if the above deal was proposed, I'd jump at it. Niemann would likely be the 3rd best pitcher in the Brewers rotation whereas he's blocked from the Rays rotation. Perez, while an OPS downgrade from Hart, would be better defensively. Moreover, an OPS in the 775-800 range certainly seems plausible for him. In addition, Perez and Niemann would be under control for 6 years as opposed to only 3 for Hart. It would be filling a huge need while not creating another hole in the roster. I doubt Hart goes anywhere this offseason, but we have time to pass until spring training starts. 99.999% of these proposals never come close to happening so all I'm really interested in is if it's fair value and makes some sense for the team.

I thought I'd resurrect this thread, not because I think Hart needs to be traded, but because I have a proposal that I really like that involves him. Hart, Salome/Lucroy (preferably Salome), and another decent prospect to the Rays for Perez and Niemann. The Rays are apparently looking for a RH hitter with rumored interest in Burrell. Burrell is a better hitter, but Hart is guaranteed for 3 years and should be a good deal less expensive (probably around $15M total over his 3 arby years compared to ??? for Burrell). Not to mention he's younger, faster, and better defensively (although DH is Burrell's likely position with the Rays). Perez would give the Brewers a different dimension to their lineup (switch hitter, OBP heavy OPS, likely leadoff hitter) and would likely become the post-Cameron CF. IMO, Niemann looks to be a tick behind Gallardo and Parra, but probably better than Bush. And parting with him would still leave the Rays with Wade Davis as their #6 SP.

Speaking of lowering prices, MLBTR was suggesting that Fuentes will not receive his 3/30M deal. Instead, he'll most likely be in the 15-18M range over 3 years. At that price, any team in need of a closer should be jumping at their chance. Cough-Doug-Cough. Adding Looper and Fuentes would go a long way to solidifying the pitching staff.

McGowan is currently injured so it's unlikely he'll be traded any time soon. Why is the sky falling? The Brewers head into 2009 with the same offensive starters as 2008. They should see improvement having Cameron all year and Hall being platooned at 3B. You're likely to see some improvement from the young players and conversely it's certainly possible that you see some decline from vets like Cameron and Kendall. Overall, IMO the offense will be better. The Brewers rotation isn't as bad as people think compared to 2008. A full year of Gallardo in '09 should be about equal to what Sheets and Gallardo did in '08. Bush and Suppan are constants and should put up around the same numbers. Parra should improve with his experience last season. So, to be about equal to '08's rotation, the Brewers need to replace Villanueva/McClung/Sabathia's spot in the rotation. McClung would most likely be a step down from this trio, but as a #5 SP, would a make a big difference win wise? A bargain FA signing like Johnson or Penney probably would rectify this. As for the bullpen: Villanueva=Torres Stetter=Shouse Riske '09>Riske '08 (assuming he's healthy) McClung=McClung The question becomes can a combination of Dillard, Swindle, Coffey, DeFelice, Morlan and Julio be better than Gagne, Mota, and Turnbow. I certainly think that's possible. So, IMO the '09 Brewers could be better than the '08 Brewers. However, it's hard as a fan to sit idlely by when other competitors are improving their team. As much as I love the trade talk, I think a couple tweaks to the roster will result in a solid team without sacrificing a player like Hart, Hardy, or Fielder this year.

According to MLBTR, the Yankees are apparently backing away from any deal. They say for baseball reasons and not financial ones. Might be a ploy and it might not. Can't say that I'm disappointed.

Perhaps SP depth? When is the last time the Brewers made it through the season with only 5 pitchers starting games. Igawa as a #6 SP at say $2M/yr has some value for the Brewers. Currently, who would be their #6 SP? I'm not saying I'd expect great things from Igawa. But, he's only pitched 71.2 innings in the majors. Odds are that he's better than what he's shown thus far in the majors, and probably worse than what he did in Japan and last season in AAA.

I could be wrong, but I can't see guys like Lowe, Johnson, and Smoltz signing with Toronto. Perhaps Wolf or Penney. But you're correct, as of right now, there's more attractive pitchers on the market. Anyone have any info on how Toronto feels about Rolen? He seemed to miss some time last season and his line wasn't very impressive.

If Hall is moved to the Yankees, obviously the Brewers would need to acquire something at 3B. A 3B platoon of Lamb/McGahee doesn't exactly sound too good. If some SP is acquired whether it be through FA or a trade, how would people feel about a Rolen for Suppan swap? The Blue Jays could use some pitching with Marcum out for the year and McGowan out at least part and losing Burnett to the Yankees. They also picked up Jose Bautista last season. Not to say he's anything special, but he can play 3B. Rolen is due $13.25M in '09 and $12.63M in '10 ($4M of which the Cards are picking up). Suppan is due $12.5M in '09 and '10 with a $2M buyout for '11. Rolen has a full no-trade clause and Suppan has a partial no-trade clause to 8 teams he selects annually.

DHonks, I'm in agreement with you under the right circumstances. I posted something similar a few pages back. Igawa, whether he's a AAAA or better provides depth at SP. Something which the Brewers currently lack. Accurate or not, it seems like the Yankees want the Brewers to eat some salary. I'd rather take Igawa with some cash versus just sending money to the Yankees. A couple of options I would be alright with: Cameron for Cabrera, 2nd player/prospect, Igawa and half of Igawa's salary ($6M over 3 years). The Yankees still come out ahead $6M. Cameron and Hall for Cabrera, Kennedy, and Igawa. Igawa as a #6 SP has some value to the Brewers (for the right price). Igawa currently doesn't have any value to the Yankees.

Haudricourt said that they were talking about adding Hall to the deal, but the Yankees wanted the Brewers to take Igawa and pay some of Hall's salary so they said forget it and just took Hall out of the deal.Again, that wasn't the point of the post. I'll go back and take it out. The point of the post was that Igawa might actually have some value on the Brewers. Would I want him to be the 2nd player in the deal? No. However, the Yankees are looking for salary relief, so if they threw in Igawa with Cabrera and a 2nd player, plus picked up half of Igawa's salary, they'd net a savings of $6M. Igawa might be nothing more than a AAAA, but his sample size in the majors has been relatively small ~120IP compared with his track record in Japan and last year in AAA. At the very least he could be some AAA SP insurance. I'd see that as a potential win-win depending on the 2nd player/prospect in the deal.

That's fine if they got it wrong. That wasn't the point of the post. The point was that Igawa could have some value to the Brewers while providing cash (in the form of salary relief) for the Yankees. Igawa could be a throw in (along with some cash from the Yankees) to Cabrera and a 2nd player/prospect for Cameron.

You will most likely see at least one of Hardy/Fielder/Hart traded after the '09 season with pitching being an obvious target. Gamel, Escobar, Cain, Gilespie, Jeffress, and Salome could all potentially be ready to contribute in the majors after spending all of '09 in AAA. The sky is not falling, perhaps it's just dropping a bit.

At this point, I'd say a Cain and 2 of Periard/Anundsen/Braddock blows the the Cubs deal out of the water.

I think Igawa could serve a few purposes in a Brewer deal if he was the 3rd player coming from the Yankees. The Yankees supposedly want the Brewers to pick up some of Cameron's salary. What if Igawa was included in the deal and the Yankees picked up half of his tab? He gets $4M/yr thru '11. The Yankees would save $6M. Igawa has not had success at the major league level, but that seems out of sorts (especially BB) with his career numbers in Japan and his stats from AAA last season. While I'm not saying this is guaranteed to change, Igawa at the very least, could be some AAA SP depth for a few seasons. He's 29, so he's not it's not like he's in his upper 30s. $2M/yr for 3 years for a #6 SP that potentially could be much better. Not the greatest situation, but definitely not the worst. I would certainly take Igawa at a discount than sending money to the Yankees for Cameron. Cameron for Cabrera, mystery 2nd player, Igawa, and $6M over 3 years.

Could someone explain some posters' apparent growing fascination with Cano? IIRC, his defense is worse than Weeks. His OPS last season was .715 (.803 career), and he's owed $25M over the next 3 years with a $2M buyout for '12. In addition, he's walked only 99 times in 2218 career ABs. On the other hand, Weeks had a .740 OPS last season (.758 career), and he'll probably make under $10M over the next 3 years. He's walked 215 times in 1615 career ABs. Cano seems to be similar to Bill Hall in that he signed a big contract and isn't putting up numbers anywhere close to deserving it. At least Hall plays a mean 3B.

Interesting. I wonder who that pitcher would be if the Brewers picked up all of Cameron's salary. I'd imagine that could enter Hughes territory especially if the Brewers sent a reasonable (exclude top 15?) prospect back. The Brewers could definitely afford to pay Cameron's salary if they wanted to. Acquiring a Hughes or Kennedy would effectively take away the need to sign 1 SP, that may very well be worth several million when taking into account the pieces coming back.