TooLiveBrew

I think Prince is fine, and most of the team is fine. I worry that Manny Parra isn't fine though. Thirded. After Fielder's homer last night, Manny was one of the first Brewers waiting for a fist-bump with Prince. Apparently this was only shown on the Cincy feed (which I had), but after they gave the pound, Fielder slapped/'patted' Parra on the face in a 'friendly' manner. Problem is, it looked pretty demeaning, & they certainly weren't smiling with each other afterwards. If it had been left at the 'pound', there wouldn't have been anything out of place. As dorky as this is, I tried smacking my own cheek about as hard as Fielder appeared to 'pat' Manny, and I can tell you that even if one of my closest friends did that to me, I'd tell him not to do that again. I will fully admit this could be me making too much of it, or even looking for something that wasn't there. However, the other poster in the chat last night watching the Cincy feed took the same meaning from what Fielder did... that Prince basically showed Manny up again. So, take that for what it's worth, but I'm concerned with Prince's egotistical behavior & the impact it *might* have on Parra.

I don't see how being a fan of a team and being able to objectively discuss topics about that team is mutually exclusive, though. This, to me, is where the gulf has appeared to become wider with the influx of new members prior to & during this season. Now, I'm basically a johnny-come-lately, as I joined after the 2006 regular season (iirc), so I certainly am not claiming some hallowed status here. I think the vast majority of the problems that arise in discussions (would saying 90+% be exaggerting?) are from people being unable to separate their emotions from their 'analysis'. People sometimes appear to take personal offense if a player is called 'playing over his head'/'lucky'... or if there's a projection that ends up being surpassed, some seem to take a personal crusade to blabber, 'What do you statheads have to say now?'... when all that 'stat-heads' try to do is take the most reasonable approach plausible. I think some see being critical of a player while his results are red-hot (Braun, for example), or being supportive of a player when he's struggling (Weeks) is just wild disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, when nothing could be further from the truth. to me, it just seems impossible to have things both ways, to want BF to grow, but also get only thoughtful, well-reasoned posts. Great point, GAME. I fully agree. This goes to what Brian said about the 'policing' needing to be done be the individual posters themselves. One big example I can think of is the Vent Thread, which I know is an unpopular thing to point out. "Vent Thread" is certainly a place where people can & should go to get stuff off their chests, but at times it just turns into the 'Unfounded piss & moan thread' I personally think there is a balance to be struck between setiment & logic when 'venting', but many posters (oftentimes newer ones) just want to go in there & shout which player pisses them off the most, sometimes based on just one or two plays/outcomes. That's fine in a sense, because god knows it's brutal to watch sometimes, but the vents frequently (seemingly) aren't really fair... just someone saying how much he/she hates Player X... many times intentionally ignoring the positive things said player brings to the table, or with unrealistic expectations like performance relative to defensive position & peers.

Ned reluctantly informed the buck that he was sorry for the way he killed the deer, but that he's just so competitive & passionate. Besides, it happens all the time, anyway. He's sure the deer regrets their disagreement, too.

Booing is showing passion! Attacking your teammate is showing passion! At last, the fans & team are on the same page!

(All quotes from TH's blog) Asked what would warrant removing a player from the lineup, Yost said, "non-hustle, being late, disrespecting the game in terms of hot dogging, no hustling, those types of things." What about hustle, Ned? "It's not anything that's going to linger or continue. Prince has apologized and we've talked to Manny." What?! Prince has apologized to the media & everyone except Parra? The coaches have told Manny that what happened was OK, but that it was a tad too far? And this is acceptable? I've never encountered an incident where I've questioned the type of ship Ned skippers more than this one, and that's saying quite a bit, I think. There's an attitude that what he did was acceptable. That is unacceptable to me. I was on the fence on Yost; I am now sufficiently on the 'He must go' side. Not once has anyone -- especially Fielder -- apologized. This is all classic rationalization & enabling. It makes me sick. And yes, I know this will likely have no effect on the field either way, but this is a classless approach by Yost, Fielder, and their bosses for allowing it. Disgusting. By the way, here's basically what Manny Parra would have been told: "It was a mistake on both sides, one that I think both of them regret" Manny! Go tell Prince Fielder you're sorry for him attacking you! "That one thing doesn't hurt his image. It was a mistake on both sides, one that I think both of them regret. It's over and done. At times, we all learn how to deal with certain situations. It's called experience. We think that Prince is a grizzled veteran but he's still a young guy. He's still learning how to compete at a high level in the major leagues." Given the reaction of many of the Brewers players at the time of the scuffle, I don't see how Yost can carry much credibility anymore, if this is his actual message to them. I'm starting to think what he's saying in the media is what he's saying to the 'Family' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for hitting sixth, I don't think it makes any difference unless Cameron starts to hit more. Cameron's last 6 games (24 PA): .238/.333/.571/.905 with 2 HR I'm sorry, but Yost is just being an idiot. He doesn't understand how to play the hot bat, & he doesn't understand how to play platoon splits... among many other things.

That's a perfect way to describe the point I'm nearing, sheethead. I'm trying to think of things I like about him, but most of it is stuff that I'd guess would be easy to find in a new hire, and all stuff I've posted before. Like Russ said, his decisions include as much 'gritty-battler-iness' as logic, if not far moreso.

How about -- "0's"... meaning zeroes, but pronounce it 'Oh's'. Could even play off his name a bit more & teh interwebz & call him "0'z"... dang, now I'm thinking Oz, but 'The Wizard Of' clearly has been 'retired' http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Sorry for that stream of unconciousness. He has a nice, projectable frame and an easy delivery and overall arm action that makes it look as though he's playing catch on the mound... He repeats his delivery well, and doesn't overthrow, which allows him to maintain his velocity deep into ballgames. That's gotta be my favorite thing to hear about a young, talented pitcher. Seemingly effortless delivery, and very repeatable. I'm going to try to keep tabs on Jake... er, 0'z

225lbs is pretty generous too. I'd say more like 240. Funny -- the first baseballcube link you provided had him at 240, the second at 225.

Trying to be funny. Being an English nerd is rarely funny for one's own personal gain -- typically works the opposite way. Why is Counsell starting at 3B? Because that's where the 3B bats. God, why don't you people just get a couch in the dugout! Then maybe Ned could ask you to do his math for him... wait a second, this is starting to sound like a good idea... "I'm don't do math well" -- Ned freaking Yost. Good thing baseball isn't a numbers game.

I'm of the camp that thinks that Prince wanted Parra to stay out there and when it became obvious he wasn't, Prince basically made him. At no point in the whole process was that obvious.

From TH's blog: Here is the lineup for the Brewers' tonight: 2B Ray Durham SS J.J. Hardy LF Ryan Braun 1B Prince Fielder RF Corey Hart 3B Craig Counsell CF Mike Cameron C Jason Kendall RHP Dave Bush Counsell. At 3B. Batting 6th. My silent rage is building, and has been for some time now with Ned Yost. I've gone out of my way to be more fair with him this season, but my fuse is about to blow. Also, TH, learn how to punctuate. Its not like were idiots to! It'd be nice to see a WRITER do so correctly. Yes, I know this is a blip on the radar screen... just a pet peeve.

I'd go off too. I'd probably feel bad about it once I found out the jacket to the face was completely unintentional, but in the heat of the moment I would have gotten all stupid. I'm not proud of it, just somewhat self aware Yeah, I can admit to this too. I'd feel incredibly bad, and like a jag. I can't see how being flicked by the corner of a jacket is worthy of flipping out. Maybe if the jacket has spikes on it or something, but otherwise it doesn't strike me as something that would hurt a lot. A zipper might smart a bit, but you'd think if he were hurt, just instinctively/reactive-ly, he'd have flinched or put his hand to his own face.

I just feel like this place has turned into a sports radio show. Chhose a topic, have a very strong opinion about it but off little or nothing to back it up. +1 points if the topic involves attacking the character of a player or coach. Excellent post Russ. I'm glad the elephant in the room is finally being addressed. I'm sure this will lead to people thinking this is 'elitist' or whatever... which kind of proves the point on its own. And I agree with IslandsAC (glad to see you around, buddy) on the 'race for the ____th post' -- I was guilty of the same thing once upon a time, but now feel like Brian about being a bit embarassed about it. How many people even try to formulate an argument, anymore? Shut up! Bottom line is Hardy SUCKS!

I don't agree here either. Prince is not the manager of the team. I don't know what the SP's routines are after pitching, perhaps they see a trainer, soak their arm, stretch out, etc. Prince needs to worry about his ABs, and 1b, not where Parra is. Yes, and the ironic thing is that Prince lost his bananas while essentially telling another player how to handle his emotions. Manny was upset. He went from pitching a gem to getting lit up over 2 innings time. If he needs to go into the clubhouse to gain some composure for half an inning thats A-OK with me. Totally agree -- an interesting indication of how differently Manny handles frustration from Prince. All I know is that I've moved my Prince Fielder bobblehead away from my other Brewers bobbleheads so they don't get broken. - tosabrewfan Yeah, this was a great laugh, tosa. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Awesome! The talk sounded like they weren't worried about his contract status, and now we see why. I echo Stevo's sentiments. EDIT: Found this in TH's blog's comments. This is funny -- in response to a previous comment of "Can he start tonight in place of Kendall? We need some O-fense!!!: "Kendall hasn't collapsed into a coma yet, so Lawrie can't start for him tonight. Plus, Lawrie will be somewhere over the Pacific Ocean at game-time tonight." Gary, if you post here, stand up & take credit. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Ok, the game in Chicago has officially been called. 2-0 win for Houston.

That's so absolutist that it misses the point a bit imo. I think we can all agree that there's a middle ground between 'sulking' and 'striking'

Still listed on Extra Innings as being in a "Rain Delay"... nearing midnight, central time. In other news, the Mariners just pasted the Twins with a 10-run 7th inning at Safeco to vault ahead 11-6. I'm sure TWR is pleased. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Oh, and Raul Ibanez had 6 RBI in the inning -- a salami in his first PA, then a 2-RBI single. Wowzers.

And another lightning delay. This is not a rain delay. The umpires need to recognize that the conditions are no longer safe for this game to continue. Big Puma just started literally running off the field (after ducking, startled) in reaction to the most recent lightning strike(s).

Yes, I'm a huge Brewers fan. However, the umpires allowing play to continue with all this lightning in close proximity to the ballpark is just ignorant, arrogant, and irresponsible.

For me it was the 2nd push to the face that really got under my skin. I understand, but do not condone, the 1st push. That was an emotional reaction or overreaction. But after that, it took thought to continue and go after Parra a 2nd time. In my opinion, Prince is in the wrong here. Yeah, another 'agree' here. Couple that with the fact that it only got to two shoves due to Fielder being tackled by 2 or 3 team members... ugh. Southpaw makes a great point -- Parra landed on his left side. Could have been a lot worse, and with a more disgusting twist of fate... "We lost tonight. That's the worst thing that happened. might not have been the worst thing that happened.

More lightning near Wrigley, Astros up 2-0 in the top of 7. It'd be nice to see this one called.

We actually had 1 guy that had blasted all Cubs fans that went to games for causing the team to not get any better. Called most of the attendees "tourists" then he disappeared for 4 months. Came back the day after we captured the division in 2003 (BTW thanx for beating the Astros that day) proclaiming how great the team wasand what a great fan he was. We banned him on the spot. That's passionate. That's awesome. Trolls suck big-time. By the way, I think your analysis of the board is pretty spot-on, save calling it "ultra-conservative"

Yeah, I don't think this will be some determining factor, but the fact that Prince valued his own rage over Parra's well-being is extremely concerning to me.

Sometimes 'making the pitch' isn't enough -- he threw a change 3-2 to Cabrera that was probably a strike (at least a similar distance 'outside' to a FB that was called a strike on the Brewers in the next half-inning). This kind of 'unraveling' happens to nearly every pitcher from time to time when they reach 100 pitches or so. Plus, don't forget that Manny is nearing uncharted territory in terms of IP.