Crash2303

don't think we should lose too much sleep if we lose any of them in the offseason. with that said, I hope we re-sign the following: Pinto- he is the only one I think who has a legit shot (albeit long) at being a part of the Brewers MLB future and would see as a talent loss if we didn't re-sign. Dillard- as a mentor/coach in training/radio booth in training Peterson- as AAA OF bench depth 2 of the following for AAA/AA veteran bullpen depth: Ross, Tillman, Freeman would love to see Burgos re-signed, but Colorado has not been kind, and with a logjam of pitchers, I think he would have better luck signing on with someone else- hope he makes it back to the show and has a solid career more than my selfish hope that he's with the Brewers AAA team for years to come.

I see seven spots easily freed up on the 40 man. Here is who I think they are and who I would replace them with: REMOVE Scahill Capuano Middlebooks Elmore Wilkins Nieuwenhuis Boyer ADD Brinson Hader Orf Suter Wren Phillips Pinto (FA) in addition, I think we could probably remove the following guys off the 40 man if needed without someone claiming them: Goforth Cravy Houser Rowen Garza- a little different scenario

Flores is only 24. He has projectile tools and has succeeded throughout the minors in spite of being young for his level at each stage.he had produced little this season but he has enough of a track record to see what he can do next season especially having this extended major league experience to learn from. Adjusting to big leagues more often takes some time. sometimrs it can be a curse being brought up too early as people give up on u if u don't produce right away a la Gomez, Perez and sardinas.

At the time of this thread's original post, Niewenhuis was hitting a paltry .196/.309/.344 on the season and was in the midst of a 3 for 35 slump- yikes, precipitating the "end his tenure" now post. Knock on wood, but in the 14 games played since this thread was started Kirk has an OPS of 1.111 (.412/.698 split). Has he been hawking brewerfan recently? he's raised his traditional split to .214/.327/.405 and continues to start the majority of games in CF. many thought that one way or another he'd be gone by Aug. 1. I am assuming the only reason he is still playing so much is the hope that he is able to be a waiver wire deal. But, even if he continues to hit well in the next couple of weeks- do you think whatever we would actually get for him is worth the missed opportunity to see what Broxton and Wren can do at this point (as an audition for next year) in CF? Consistent PT in September is going to be few and far between with lots of guys up and next year (assuming Braun/Santana in corners) will be crowded for PT as well between them and Liriano, Flores, Reed. Inevitably we'll have to part ways with at least one, maybe two of those talented OF at some point next season, (especially if Brinson/Phillips turn it on) and it would be a shame to part with one of them and see them take off with another team without having given them significant MLB PT to evaluate them. These next two months need to be Wren & Broxton's time!

Just something cool I like thinking about, our arguable top five OF prospects, one at each level, all CFers. talk about literally filling the system top to bottom: AAA Brinson AA Phillips A+ Ray A Harrison R+ Clark and that's not including all the other guys like Taylor, Reed, Liriano, Wren, Segovia, Stokes, Broxton, Davis etc. I love our stacked system!

Pinto came off the DL yesterday and I believe would be protected and under team control if added to the 40 man. Regardless, I'm not by any means a Pinto apologist, and like Susac more for his complete game, but I think Pinto should definitely be put in the Susac/Maldy/Pina mix for catcher going forward. it's not like he's some journeyman 29 year old minor leaguer who is putting together a nice season ala Manny (who I love- and think he has found his stride and could put together a really nice 3-4 year MLB run). Pinto is a blue chip guy who has hit the tar off the ball at every level outside of his age 21 season in low A ball and last year at AAA (which may have more been due to lingering effects of a concussion which sidelined him for two months. Going in to the 2014 season he was rated by BA as the number 56 prospect in all of baseball and hit .963OPS that season with the Twinkies. He is currently entering his prime years at age 27 and hitting .874 OPS (granted in Colorado). He doesn't play particularly good defense (from what I have read from posters here) but also plays 1B. Just curious why no one has mentioned him and why he would not at least be in this conversation as one of the Brewer's possible catchers, in the post Lucroy era. Hope he gets a chance in September or next season to show what he can do again at the MLB level.

Okay- make it 31: 1) Orlando Arcia 2) Lewis Brinson 3) Josh Hader 4) Luis Ortiz 5) Corey Ray 6) Phil Bickford 7) Brett Phillips 8) Marcos Diplan 9) Trent Clark 10) Cody Ponce 11) Isan Diaz 12) Lucas Erceg 13) Nathan Kirby 14) Jorge Lopez 15) Jacob Nottingham 16) Brandon Woodruff 17) Kodi Medeiros 18) Devin Williams 19) Monte Harrison 20) Freddy Peralta 21) Demi Orimoloye 22) Corbin Burnes 23) Jacob Gatewood 24) Gilbert Lara 25) Kyle Wren (he's gotta get some love somewhere 26) Rymer Liriano 27) Mario Feliciano 28) Tyrone Taylor 29) Clint Coulter 30) Michael Reed

good call on my oversight- I edited it. see above

wow- lots of minor league success- http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=rowen-001ben looks like a guy who just never got an extended chance to show what he could do at the MLB level. hopefully we can give him that opportunity.

Here's my optimistic "clean house" version of 2018- continuing to trade off short-term assets in favor of young, controllable high upside prospects, save a MLB ready 3B. I don't think we'll start spending big to supplement contending pieces until 2019. STARTING LINEUP 1B- Braun (I just don't see him being traded, and unless we pick up a stud 1B, the outfield will be too crowded for him to stay) 2B- Villar (with his strong arm and decent range, I think he would be an awesome second baseman) SS- Arcia (of course) 3B- someone we pick up in a trade C- Susac RF- Santana CF- Brinson LF- Phillips (will spend 2017 raking in Colorado Springs with a September callup, ready to burst on the 2018 scene) BENCH U- Orf (provides bench with incredible flexibility) U- Perez (provides bench with incredible flexibility) C- Pinto (think Kottaras but w/ more offense) OF- [Wren, Liriano, Broxton, Reed, Flores] (hopefully will be given opportunities the remainder of this season and next to prove what they've got in the show. have to believe that 1-2 of them, at least, will show that they are MLB starting caliber OFs. OF- [Wren, Liriano, Broxton, Reed, Flores] STARTING PITCHING Nelson Davies Hader- (he will find his control- don't you worry) Jungmann- (he will find his control- don't you worry) Lopez- (he will find his control- don't you worry) BULLPEN Knebel Blazek Barnes Magnifico Barrios- (if he continues where he left off before his injury- I think he will turn into an excellent bullpen arm) Nolin- (if he continues where he left off before his injury- I think he will turn into an excellent bullpen arm) Wilkerson or Suter UP AT SOME POINT AFTER MAY IN 2018 TO TAKE A ROSTER SPOT FROM SOMEONE (THOUGH I WOULD PREFER 2019 TO NOT BURN CLOCK) P- Ortiz P- Woodruff TRADED BEFORE BEGINNING OF 2018 SEASON Peralta- (going to bounce back to promising 2014 numbers in 2017 and be traded in the offseason) Anderson- (going to have a solid 2017 and be traded in the offseason) Carter- (going to put up a big first half once again and be traded at the 2017 trade deadline) Gennett- (after another year of batting .285/.340/.440 and hitting against lefties will be traded after 2017) Maldonado- (will be traded this offseason to open the way for Pina/Susac/Pinto for 2017 MLB playing time) Pina- (will be the 2017 starting catcher, have a great season, but due to age, will be traded at the deadline to a contender in need of a catcher upgrade) Guerra- (going to finish the year strong and then continue where he left off in 2017 and be traded as a centerpiece of a packaged deal at the deadline) Thornburg- (will be our dominant reliever for the rest of the year and be shipped away in the offseason) Marinez/Torres- (one will be traded by the end of this season and the other will be traded at some point before next season's trade deadline)

No pinto love here? (Not in blue)

this is atrocious. I haven't read through the whole thread yet, so perhaps this was brought up already, but is there any possibility of affiliated minor leaguers forming a minor league union? they have little to no voice. owners don't want to increase their pay, I don't see why it would be in the interest of current major leaguers to increase compensation to minor leaguers, as that would reduce the piece of the pie for them on some level. so, who is there to advocate for minor leaguers- they are generating revenue and building blocks for MLB with less than fair compensation.

thanks for clarifying Reily and it brought to mind that 1992casey had came to the same conclusion a while back in a previous thread: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=33690&p=988667&hilit=carter#p988667. Regardless, the points are still there, and I'm not sure I forsee Carter lasting through the 2018 season anyway. Let's hope that as many of our young guys fulfill or exceed projections- a good problem to have- excess of top tier talent!

Carter won't be a FA until after the 2018 season if they decide to go that route. According to Sportrac, it is actually after the 2017 season: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/chris-carter/

To clarify, the prospective Braun to first base was implied for 2018 and would be contingent upon one of Liriano, Flores, Broxton, Wren, or Reed establishing themselves between now and the end of 2017 and also assuming that Phillips fills current projections as a major league starting CF in 2018. This makes even more sense, factoring in Carter being a FA after the 2017 season. though with unforeseen injuries and potential trades at the deadline and the winter- anything of course can happen.

I know that Nieuwenhuis/Presley were picked up to be cheap stop gap and possible flip candidates this year. After cutting bait with Presley, i'm guessing they let Nieuwenhuis pretty much take over in center hoping that he could string enough together to be flipped at the deadline, but at this point he's not hitting above the Mendoza line and regardless of his decent defense, if nobody wanted Presley, it would similarly seem that nobody is going to be trading for Nieuwy. and at 28 years old and after almost 1000 MLB PAs, there's little reason to think he'll be more than his his career .684 OPS (which is better than his this year). Whereas Kyle Wren is absolutely killing AAA right now. After just turning 25 he has much more projectability and its time to see what he can do at the major league level and thus time to let Nieuwenhuis go, now. Furthermore, Flores, 24, and Broxton, recently turned 26, continue to need MLB seasoning. but, I'm not sure how many ABs you'd be able to give to them both once Santana comes back, but there is little for either of them to prove back at AAA. You've also got Liriano (injured) & Reed who are going to factor into the mix next season and Phillips at AA. But, in spite of so many (including me) anointing Phillips as the 2017 starting CF when the season began, it is showing more and more likely that a September callup will more likely happen next year, after a full season of AAA. in a way that is good as it can afford the Brewers one more season to see what they've got in (the young five) Liriano, Flores, Broxton, Wren, and Reed before Phillips (hopefully) takes over. But, if any of them should show that they're a starter, it is all the more reason why Braun should free up this logjam by moving to first base or traded. In spring training I was hoping that at least one of the five CF Presley, Nieuwenhuis, Young, Guez, Peterson would establish themselves a bit and maybe bring back a low level lotto or something. However, it seems that all of them at this point are AAA vet filler. So here's hoping that the young five flourish into more than that- but the only way to find out is to see what they can do a the major league level.

why is Wren not playing center for the crew right now?

as discussed in the thread, it is not about who is better, but who has greater trade value to a team- meaning, who could bring back the greatest return in a trade- which takes into consideration length and size of contract, age, as well as performance. a lot can would actually depend on a team's need, and a team's contention or nor, but this exercise, I believe tries to assume it is neutral. Braun is due around 20 mil a year for the next four years. a fair contract if he continues to stay healthy, but that is a big IF. regardless, teams would not be willing to trade much for braun, unless we ate some of his contract- so not a huge amount of trade value to the brewers. although LuCroy is having a monster year on a team friendly contract, he is only under contract for one more year. I think Villar vs Lucroy is very close and could go either way, but I don't think its that absurd that a team may prefer a 25 year old, soon to be All-Star SS, who is only making $500K and under team control for an additional four years.

interesting re-reading this thread. with trade talks heating up a little bit and since several players were traded this offseason, while others have been added I was interested in what people's new, current top 10 would be, especially as we're "nearing" the trade deadline. Please review the guidelines that Eye Black at Night set forth in the opening post. I don't think we necessarily need to tally them up- just curious what people think. Here's mine fwiw: 1. Arcia 2. Nelson 3. Villar 4. LuCroy 5. Santana 6. Carter* 7. Davies 8. Knebel 9. Smith 10. Lopez 11. Jeffress* * if Carter is under contract through 2018- I've seen posted that he is a FA after 2018, but have also seen (sportrac) that he becomes a FA after 2017. if the latter is true, he would fall outside the top 10 and Jeffress would take his place at #10)

Webb and Burnes now join the ranks of Nash Walters and Trey Supak, of young pitchers in the low levels with plenty of upside and "stuff", but who also are pretty raw and haven't been able to put it together yet. we'll see how they all shake out as they develop, but I like all of their potential.

weird, gotta wonder what his two releases were all about.

yeah, not sure at all how Ramirez was let go over Capuano, wilkins, Presley, and even goforth. but they obviously see or know something I don't.

this was surprising to me. for an organization all about acquiring and holding on to talent, surprising to see them risk losing Ramirez over just sending barnes back down. hopefully he slips through. from everything I read, sounds like he has some respectable upside, but then again they actually get to see him.

it is true that if the team continues to play well and with the right pieces brought in we could be in a positive position come September, which everyone would be excited about. but not moving carter and lucroy and jeffress and hill and boyer by the trade deadline (while their value is high) would be a terrible mistake for the future. it is tempting to chase a wildcard spot and stearns will hear from it from a lot of fans if he does trade off the hot players, but the haul of prospects we should get back from them is too important for our future, extending and increasing our contending window. because of their contract situations, we may be "no rush", but some of these guys' value may not be higher than they will be in July, provided nobody gets hurt (knocking on wood) than if we wait til the offseason or next year's deadline. sell high and reap the long-term rewards!

has anyone noticed that Villar is quietly leading the majors with 22 steals? didn't know he was that much of a base stealer, than I ran across this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw4rZnHOx0s