MJLiverock

You are counting on some drastic improvement in a short period of time in getting that plate discipline up. It could happen, but how realistic is it for a guy to successfully change his whole approach at this point. If Sveum was that good why couldn't he teach Hart to walk more or Bill Hall? I love the stolen base, Rickey Henderson was my favorite player as a kid. That said, the Brewers and Ken Macha have shown a lot of reluctance in stealing bases. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear Ken say he was put in a bit of zimzam with getting a young unproven CF'er whose best offensive skill is stealing bases. How ticked off will people be if Weeks, Gomez and Escobar are kept tethered to first base all year and end up with about 15-20 steals each which would seem like the old running Cardinals by comparison to Macha's history.

Why would Mulder excite anyone? He may never pitch in the majors again and if he does I would expect Jeff Suppan at very best and terrible as likely scenarios for him. Again I see it mentioned that they couldn't get a pitcher straight up for him which is totally believable but they could use a package with Hardy to bring in someone with upside to the rotation or minor leagues, or wait more than 2 days to take the first offer on the table. This just looks like a desperation move and it isn't even winter meetings time yet. The bagging on Gomez is because he hasn't done anything at the major league level yet and may never and the team already has Gerut for CF who with a decent platoon partner could very easily out produce Gomez on top of Cain putting up similar minor league numbers as Gomez being around the corner if they just want cheap potential. Gomez could be very well be Lastings Milledge or worse just as likely or even more likely than some Jose Reyes of CFers.

didn' see it yet so here is the article on fangraphs about the trade http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/hardy-to-the-twins

I am not suprised most fans of other teams think this is an OK trade. Both guys in my office who are fans of other teams said the same thing. Their reasoning and I quote, "Isn't Hardy terrible? I mean he hit like .220 last year" One guy added that "isn't Hardy one of the worst shortstops in baseball?" And the increasingly popular, "Gomez? Wasn't he who the Twins got for Santana? He must be pretty good." Granted these guys are Cubs and Cardinals fans but you get the drift of what other baseball fans know about where Hardy fits in the realm of shortstops. Two guys who root for Theriot and Khalil Greene think Hardy is worse.

No kidding endaround. This whole "if Gomez improves a lot he will be good" idea is pretty odd. Of course if he raises his OBP to levels he has never even sniffed he will be good why do people even post that sort of nonsense. If Jeff Suppan puts up a 3.00 ERA he will be good too but I'm not going to hold my breath for it to happen. Younggeezy: Cain is around the same age and is still considerably behind where Gomez is right now. Defensively and even offensively even though Gomez still has to develop much more Cain has just as much time to develop since as you state they are the same age. Thier minor league OBPs are pretty similar other than Cain's injury riddled season last year and Cain hits for more power while probably not being as good defensively. Like I said earlier, in 2 years Cain might well be the exact same player.

I'm not going to pick out individual posts but I disagree with a number of the thoughts supporting this trade. 1. JJ Hardy wasn't going to bring a #2 pitcher --- no kidding, but there is no rule that the Brewers can only trade 1 for 1, Hardy could have been packaged with other prospects to get a better ML pitcher or AA+ pitcher with upside. The team is still trying to figure out what to do with McGhee and Gamel, and one of the minor league catchers on top of it not even being winter meetiings yet, it is only the 2nd day of the offseason. I can't believe there were so many teams after Gomez that Melvin couldn't have waited a few weeks to try and work out something better that included some pitching. 2. The step down from Cam to Gomez isn't much - - Gomez has over 1100 PA in the majors and a career OBP of .292 with his most recent season being .287, not showing improvement yet. Cameron has put up an OBP of .342 in his most recent year and can pretty much be penciled in for .340 while slugging at a much higher level than Gomez. For all the strikeout haters that like to rip on Cameron; Gomez strikes out nearly as much but without any power whatsoever or ability to actually get on base. 3. Gomez and Escobar bring speed - - Gomez is 74% succesfull on SB's so right around the break even level but as in #2 you can't steal first base. The team also doesn't run very much anyway and unless Macha is going to change his philosophy speed won't matter all that much. 4. Had to save money by letting Cam walk and needed to fill CF -- Who is Melving going to spend the money on? The free agent crop isn't that great for pitchers and the trade chips are dwindling for taking on a good MLer with a higher salary. Signing guys like Washburn, Davis, Pinerio might very well be Suppan v2.0. Gerut can play CF with a platoon mate and if Gomez is that platoon mate than Melvin really got fleeced trading Hardy for a platoon player. After 2010 Cain may just as ready to match Gomez's output anyway without trading Hardy. 5. Gomez was a top prospect and part of the Santana deal - - the key word is was. Baseball is littered with guys who were top prospects who didn't pan out. Many thought the Twins got fleeced in the Santana deal to begin with. Gomez has done nothing in 1100 ML PA's so that toolsy upside is starting to wear thin and comparisons to a cetain Lastings Milledge may start to appear. I just don't see anyway this is an improvement for the Brewers by downgrading their offense this much and not improving the pitching one bit. They have some money to spend but after seeing this deal on top of Melvin's track record with pitching I have next to zero confidence he will improve the team with it.

Yuck, this does viturally nothing to improve the situation of the team. Taking a step back in a premium positon like CF to save money for pitching is fine if the team actually had a pitcher in the fold or a realistic target for spending that money on. I dont' believe they do. Melvin's track record for identifying pitching isn't great and overpaying for another Suppan type is just going to be a loadstone around the team again. I would have much rather traded Hardy for a package of minor leaguers with upside so if one flames out one may not versus tradiing for an all glove no hit CF'er which the Brewers may have in Cain anyway. Now a line up with Gomez and Escobar has plenty of speed and stealing ability but will Macha utilize this? Or is it just wasted on him? The old adage of, "You can't steal first base," also comes to mind. I think Escobar will be a fine SS but realistically I don't expect an OBP much above .320 for him in the early years, Gomez may not even match that. If Kendall is in the lineup this team will have serious OBP issues. Who is going to hit leadoff? Does this mean Corey Hart will be back for sure? He hasn't exactly been an OBP machine either. So with this trade the team downgraded the offense and did nothing to improve pitching. They can spin the savings of money anyway they want but until they actually sign an above average pitcher this could be Melvin's Waterloo.

A bit off the topic of tips, etc. but I know this is a statement that bugs me. A lot. I know I'm taking this out of context, and I'm not attacking you, homer, but this statement by so many people about teachers and summers "off" is a joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. There are plenty of teachers (I would guess most teachers, actually) that work over the summer. This is the only time of the year, really, that teachers can take classes to get re-certified. This is the time that of the year that many invest in teaching summer school. This is the time of the year that teachers, just coming off a completed school year, begin working on planning for the upcoming school year (my wife is big on this one.) And I know tons of teachers who have to take a summer job (pizza delivery, grocery store deli, etc.) just to make ends meet, since, you know, we don't really get paid over the summer. Sure, there are probably some teachers that treat the summer as their lazy bum time and do nothing during the summer. But that is quite the exception, I'm sure of it. Anyway, rant over. Back to tips. I know it ends up being a point some will never agree on but your statement is bascially one that drives me crazy. Everytime a conversation about teachers comes up the point of continuing education or summer jobs comes up like it is a hardship only teachers face and everyone should feel sorry for them. Plenty of other professions have to take continuing ed classes, I know I do, only I don't get time off from work for them. Continuing education is pretty much normal for any profession but we always heat about how poor teachers have to spend time on their summers off taking a few credits. Plenty of accoutants, financial advisors, engineers, IT people, HR people, medical professionals, etc. spend time in continuing ed requirements. The WI State Journal even went so far as to write a ridiculous article this past summer about how rough it is for some teachers in the summer because they have to spend their time gardening, taking care of the lawn, painting, and planning trips in addition to taking a class. So basically the very same things everyone has to fit in around a full time job in the summer. The whole summer job thing is completely absurd. No one forces them to work summers it is done out of boredome, greed, or poor planning. Yes I know it will offend someone to call it greed but seriously if you make $40,000 a year, but get paid over 9 months instead of 12 it is the same as $40,000/year over 12 months. Actually, even better, since you get the money quicker. Plenty of people get by on $40,000/year, taking a summer job is a choice to bring in more money because you either spent too much or want to spend more and have the option that others making $40,000 over the full year don't have. I also know from teacher friends that some disctircts let a teach take their pay over 12 months instead of 9 because they don't want to worry about budgeting for the summer months. When I met my wife she worked as a personal banker and took a job as a hostess in a restaurant on weekends to make extra money. No one writes letters complaining about the poor bank employees working second jobs on weekends even though she made a heck of a lot money less than a starting teacher. Being a teacher isn't easy but then again not many professions are but the what I see as whining gets old. As far as tips go I believe you get what you pay for, and hate it when people say tips shouldn't be expected or why don't they just pay a higher wage to waitstaff. It's simple economics that if they start paying waitstaff $10-$12/hour the price of the food will have to go up to cover the added wages. So your $6 hamburger will now cost $6.50, your $1 soda is going to be $1.25 etc. In other words your total meal cost won't be much cheaper if at all. You will lose out on the ability to incentivize the waitstaff to work above the just acceptable level. If there is no chance, or a very unlikely one for the waiter to get a tip, the chance that waiter is going to make sure your food is hot, your glass if filled, or the bar tender is going to stop talking to the cute girl to come take your order just went down a few notches. A few added dollars to the order to reflect the level of service received isn't that big of deal when the alternative is probably paying the same total, maybe a little cheaper but for questionable service, attitude, and overall quality of employee.

Because it used to really be called BW3 for Buffalo Wild Wings and Weck. My friend used to manage the one on State Street in Madison and I remember them taking down all the BW3 signage I think they even got in trouble for keep it around too long. The company rebranded itself when they started opening more stores and before going public and dropped the Weck part of the name since no one knew what it was. Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Wild_Wings for the full explanation of Weck

Morningstar probably has the most information, even the Yahoo Finance site relies on some of the Morningstar stuff. I can tell you that Pimco Total Return Fund is a pretty good to great fund. My wife has it as an option in her 401k. PIMCO does a very good job on fixed income funds, they don't call Bill Gross the Bond King for nothing. It is a pretty stable low risk fund since it is fixed income. But remember that as interest rates increase fixed income instruments like bonds or even CD's lose value either explicitly or implicitly in the CD case. I would keep terms pretty short on any CD or bond at this point since rates can pretty much only go up from here. I noticed the funds were C class which may mean higher fees or deferred sales charges if I remember my mutual fund stuff (I don't use them myself so I forget all the classes). You may want to look at www.ishares.com for an ETF option that can get similar returns but avoid the sales charges and have lower managment fees.

I'd recommend a buyer's agent as well. I've used one on both of my home purchases and couldn't be happier. They know the market better than me and know what was just listed and having posibly been through the new listings can steer me towards or away homes based on what I've told her. I can't imagine the amount of time she saved me on my last purchase. Looking at ads online or in the paper work to a point but I didn't want to drive around seeing houses that looked good in a couple pictures only to find multiple obvious disquallifiers that the agent may already know about having either seen the house already or knowing the neighborhood. In both cases the agent I used (different one each time since my first woman moved away) handled all the paperwork for offers, thought of things to ask for I never would have thought of, set up inspections, not to mention having access to the lockbox keys for personal showings, did all the negotiations, etc. She even told me to lower my offer on a house by $5,000 below my first thought since she thought it would be accepted. I agree with Southpaw in a way that - - yes a buyer's agent is incentivized to get you to buy a house since they get paid a commision on the sales price but they also don't want to waste your time and theirs showing you houses you aren't going to buy because of price or taste, or whatever. And most aren't really interested in pushing the price up for a higher commission if you think about the math of it. In the instance of my house it was $5,000 lower that she recommended I offer - - her half of the 6% is $150 on that amount then subtract the agency take, taxes, and she probably gave up less than $50 from her pocket to get a sale completed.

Is Morrow a starter or a reliever? I ask because I really dont' know much about him other than being a high draft pick who hasn't thrown much over 100 innings in any season yet and seems to be used out of the pen a lot at the major league level. His walk rate looks a little scary in his minimal innings thus far but maybe due to being young but like I said I don't know much other than his name and quick stats look up.

You are seriously going to use a whopping 4 starts as proof that the fill ins were capable last year? Here are the stats for the fill in starters not named Narveson: Burns 8 starts: 6.86 ERA. 1.55 WHIP Villanueva 6 starts: 6.52 ERA. 1.69 WHIP McClung 2 starts: 12.27 ERA, 2.318 WHIP Narveson's 4 nice starts do not compensate for the utter crap that these three guys represented. Don't lose sight of the fact that the guys they replaced weren't exactly world beaters either. Those stats fit right in with Suppan: 5.29 ERA, 1.69 WHIP Bush: 6.38 ERA, 1.47 WHIP Parra: 6.36 ERA, 1.83 WHIP

For me it isn't about Kendall coming back and taking a pay cut - - It is about him coming back and catching 135+ games. If he is a Brewer again next year I fear no matter who the other catcher is we are going to get a steady dose of Kendall 4/5 days again no matter what he does.

I guess you have a reason, but nothing makes me chuckle like seeing a bunch of clowns at a summer softball tournament all geared up...and wearing their hats backwards. 1. The sun is bright. Use the bill. 2. It's freaking hot. If you aren't going to use the bill, lose the hat. 3. It's a softball game, not a fashion show. You can be "hip" afterwards. I'm also a big fan (sarcasm) of the guys who stroll in wearing the backwards hat with the shades turned backwards as well. You would hate me then. I always wear a hat in softball, especially if it is hot. Keeps the sun off my balding head, absorbs the sweat, etc. I even wear it backwards at times because as mentioned I don't like the bill in the way when looking up at high pitches, and flipping it around gives a new spot to absorb some sweat from my forehead and lets air behind my sunglasses so they don't literally steam up from sweat. I'll never understand why how someone wears a hat bothers so many people. I remember the complaints and aghast curmudgeons when Griffey, Jr. started wearing his hat backwards in BP and in interviews. Or Jeff Bennet's straight bill or Cameron/Pierre/Sabathia's slightly turned hats or Manny's long pants, etc.

KK isn't terrible but he isn't much of a difference maker either. That may be all Hart can bring back at this point but a mid 30's back of the rotation starter is what I see in the Suppan Looper mold. Kawakami is going to be paid about $7MM each of the next two years to be a #3 at best, likely #4 type starter. Sure he has 6 K/9, that ranks him 35th out out 52 guys who tossed 140+ innings. Being 4th best on the Brewer's staff really isn't saying a lot considering they were the 2nd worst staff in the league. He also has the 16th most walks, and 40th/52 in K/BB ratio. His strand rate was higher than both Suppan and Looper and he had a below average BABIP. He is in that mold of guy who's fastball tops out at 90, complained of shoulder soreness a few times thru out the year. Is he better than Mike Burns, sure but I could easily see him beeing a 4.75+ ERA guy next year as well. The Brewers have enough of those guys and need to spend their trading chips on getting much better players than they have, it may take a package of guys to do that so I just get a little worried when I see them fritter the tradeable guys for less than impressive talent or improvments.

That's an awful lot of walks and not that great a K rate. His BABIP was even a little low so I wouldn't say he was hurt by bad luck, if anything I wouldn't be surprised to see it increase and not really be bad. He looks like the usual Brewer target of being not horrible but having very little upside either and at this point could very well be Jeff Suppan 2.0.

I can tell you I have had DirecTV for about 10 years and have had very little to complain about, certainly less than I did with my years with Charter. Anyone who says the reception is touchy either has their dish aimed incorrectly or there is an obstruction in the signal path, period. I have a clear shot and a securely mounted dish and can say that living through Wisconsin snow storms and thunderstorms I have lost signal nor more than a couple times per year and usually only for 5 minutes during complete Biblical downpours. I may have had a problem with snow once a few years ago when we got like a foot in an hour. Cetain regions shouldn't be worse than others if you are in the continental U.S. Every single friend or relative that has had a problem with reception was due to the dish aimed wrong, a loose mounting, or a tree growing into the signal path. You can easily check your signal strength on the TV, properly aimed ones will be i the 90's and be virtually rain fade free like mine. Signals will be receiveable down i nthe 60's and be watchable but will be "touchy," which is why those weak signals need to be checked out. The customer service has been fantastic and regularly ranks as the best among pay TV providers. Check out JD Power awards and other surveys. I haven't had any problems and most of the time I see complaints from people who either A. expect the company to just give them something for free or B. just don't understand their equipment or package. Or people get upset when their game is blacked out because they think DirecTV set the blackout rules. Check out dbstalk.com for message boards and news that is pretty thorough and helpful. You will see posts of complaints as well but I would say a lot of them are as I described, people expecting too much or free stuff, or failiing to understand how equipment or programming works. Sure there are some legitimate complaints but I would say that is the case with any service. Some had problems with the HD DVR's when they dropped Tivo. I didn't have problems and actually prefer the new boxes to the Tivo models. There is a contant flame war going on about that decision. Some people love Tivo and couldn't see anything else, some are indifferent, and others hate Tivo's system. I always suggest go with what works for you or covers your needs. Some are ticked off about DirecTV dropping Versus because Comcast wants to nearly triple the carriage fee charged to DirecTV for the 61st rated channel out of 70 nationals. I haven't watched Versus in years and don't care a bit about getting the channel but others want the NHL coverege they provide but there just aren't that many or it wouldn't be 61st in ratings. So if Versus is important to you it could sway you.

That kind of stood out to me as well, six games is meaningful and 12.8 to be within 2 standard deviations isn't that impressive. Youcould say any team with a vowel in in its name will have 81 wins and be within 12.8 games on either side and hit 75% of the teams. The fact that it can identify a team with some better players like the Yankees vs. the Nationals gives it a little better predictive nature but I still wouldn't buy into player X adding 2.5 wins over player Y to predict a club's record. It has it's place comparing the past season's of players versus one another but still has plenty of questionable inputs.

I wasnt' trying to enter strawman area valpo but I tend to have a problem with the cult of personality that people like Ramsey and Orman develop. They don't say anything original or earth shattering, much of it is common sense, and readily available for free but they caution people on spending money on everyhting yet are trying to sell you something or recomending high cost investment options with unrealistic risk reward expectations set in people's minds. The key to any investment return is in the risk reward area and these gurus usually don't discuss it so people understand it or they miss represent it, while raking in cash by shilling their buddies investment advisory services that may or may not be any good, may charge higher fees than others, or pay a referral fee to Ramsey or whomever. I brought the line of spend money on what you truly enjoy as a better guide than never take a car loan, or take your lunch to work every day because to some people those expenses are worth it and provide enjoyment of life. They may make sacrifices elsewhere to live within their means but to me scrimping and saving everything leads to a boring life and is a practice that is hard to get out of which is why I brought up my client. He did it for 50 years and now that he has reached his retirement goal he still can't enjoy it because he just can't bear to spend the money he has accumulated. As was mentioned, living life in fear of the worst case scenario isn't fun either, just like never saving anything for the future. I used to joke when I was living in a crappy apartment just out of college making next to nothing at a bank that I would go without heat before cutting cable. I could put on a sweater and a blanket but I wanted ESPN and such. It just comes down to value added for each person. Everything person buys or spends money on doesn't need to be an investment, a car has a certain utility that varies from person to person and impacts other choices like valuation of time (i.e. take public transportaton, how far to live from work, etc.) BTW from a few posts: "That could also be chalked up to generational differences. This dude's fearliest memories were formed during the Great Depression when people scratched and clawed for everything they had." I know it is hard to believe but people that can actually remember the Great Depression are getting fewer and fewer. My client was born in 1936, he really doesn't have any memories of the Great Depression, he was only 5 when Pearl Harbor was bombed which was a few years after the Depression ended. I do have one client who is 87 and she remembers the Depression and her favorite saying this year and last has been, "I remember the Great Depression and this ain't it." She has some amazing stories about growing up then and having to barter for everything because there was no physical money to be had.

I think that will would be the death knell of Melvin as GM. Could everyone miraculously have turn it around and have career years, sure but how likely is it? Or how likely would a GM want to bet his job on it? Going into the 2009 season the same thing was tossed around - - the pitching will be fine, Gallardo will equal Sheets, Parra will progress to a solid #2 or #3, Bush will be back to 2006 form, Supe and Loop will be league average and so on. Now, Supe and Loop are another year older and another year of throwing BP for hitters has past. Parra still hasn't figured out how to throw strikes and Bush's 2006 promise is yet another year futher away. Gallardo had a great "rookie" year but still needs to be more economical but he is really the only one I would count on. Going into a season with 80% of the rotation as questionable or hoping they suddenly reverse course is not a recipe for success.

Mark Reynolds just K'd 223 times this year and I dont' think there are too many complaints about his production. His defense may be another matter. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Yes when injured they pitch poorly but everytime Bush, Suppan, Parra have a bad outing it gets blamed on injury or recovery or anything but not being a good pitcher or having no control. Yet check out the McClung thread and see posters with the attitude of McClung sucks and not a mention of blaming his performance on injury. Bush was flat out terrible in September after he was returned to the rotation. He made 7 starts after returning to the rotation and was rocked in 5 of them. He made a couple rehab starts in the minors first as well and wasn't too impressive. He has a history of having stretches of just being bad and I would give him the benefit of the doubt for his first couple starts at most but after that his performance can't be laid down at the feet of getting line drived 3 months earlier. He was healthy enough to pitch so at some point the results have to mean something and all the wishes and projections can drop off. Samething for Suppan. He came off the DL and made 9 starts, 4 were terrible, 1 was incomplete as he only went 2 innings, 4/8 times he was bad. Two of the worst ones came at the end, furthest from when he was actually on the DL. The guy just isn't very good anymore, DL or not. Parra's problem is walks and making pitches when he needs to. He was still bringing it in at 93+ not something a pitcher does when seriously hurt. Can a guy lose control as a sympton of being hurt? Sure, but he has exhibited this problem all year. If he was seriously injured or in pain I would expect he or the training staff would say something. Soreness is part of the game and effects on his mechanics would be noticed as well by pitching coaches and the like who I would trust to know more than any of us on the message boards. As was mentioned earlier, Looper is having some surgery too should we blame his poor performance on injury too? And how did Trevor Hoffman at 42 overcome a spring training oblique injury, shouldn't that dog him all year? I get injuries play a part but eventually either a guy is healthy enough to pitch or he isn't and the blame has to fall on talent or ability. I am just not willing to chalk up all the bad performances by mediocre (Bush and Suppan) or young/unproven (Parra) guys to injuries earlier in the season. We as fans can put all the lipstick we want on this rotation but it still doesn't erase the actual on the field results or expectations for those pitchers by fans not being caught up in homerism or love of the team.

The problem with never being willing to trade good players is that you never get good players in return. Melvin can trade scrub for scrub all he wants but the odds of actually improving a dismal pitching rotation via that method just aren't very good. You have to give to get, especially when acquiring pitching.

Or one can look at a car, cable TV, vacations, etc. as worth it to have a life worth living. Everyone could get by on Ramen noodles, living in a dump, biking/biking/walking/ driving an old clunker, splittiing the layers of toliet paper etc. and die a lonely old man living on cat food so they can leave millions of dollars to some charity or their family having spent their life in misery just to show how much they could save. If someone spends their whole life trying to do everything as cheaply as possible and never spends, they likely won't spend in retirement either because they are alway worried about tomorrow and have the mentality ingrained in their soul after 50 years. I have a 73 year old client who was a great saver his whole life, made a good living, had few debts and is now retired. It is like pulling teeth to get him to take money from his IRA to live on. He complains constanly about not saving money anymore and spending his savings. His wife is depressed because she wants to travel a bit while they still can health wise, wants to have some new furniture after 20 years of use and he won't budge on his "gotta save every dime" attitude. It always comes down to moderation just like many things in life. Live within your means, spend money on things you truly enjoy, and make smart decisions regarding risk. So called Guru's like Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman tend to just preach common sense with a little pie in the sky returns expectations all the while selling you something as they tell you not to spend money on anything. Some people need to hear that stuff but it really isn't anything earth shattering. I have advanded degrees in finance and economics and read one of Suze Orman's books back in college and it was rife with errors and half truths about financial topics. Her show was a joke and her own career in investment's flamed out long ago before she became some guru. I checked out Ramsey's stuff a little online and he uses the same common sense stuff but adds in some ridiculous return expectations of 12% for retirement assets while at the same time being a shill for high cost investment management. I am alwyas wary of anyone receiving payment for recommending investment advisors or mutual funds because they typically end up recommending high cost underperforming funds or advisors rather than best available or best fit for a person. The so called self helpers tell you don't spend money on anything. I have a car loan, it is at 0.9% interest for 5 years which in the long and short run makes sense for me because I can earn more than 0.9% interest on my money for the 5 year period. Not all debt is bad, especially mortgage debt which allows a person to lower the interest by the amount of tax deductions at their marginal rate, and lets they buy a house years before saving up to do so, thereby avoiding rents which afford no principal increase due to property appreciation or tax benefits. Renting is literally thowing money down a hole and can be even worse than some ridiculously expensive car loan. Either way, not all debt is bad, and not all spending is wasteful. People need to prioritize and be smart about spending and living within means. I would agree that carrying a balance on a credit card is pretty dumb and probably either the result of spending money on things one couldn't really afford, or an emergency. That $1000 savings won't cover squat in true emergency, car repairs, medical expenses, home repairs, can pretty easily surpass that amount but having room on the credit card to absorb the cost and provide the safety net probably makes the most sense rather than hoping your leaky roof or blown head gasket won't eat up the meager savings.