Brewcrewin07

What!?!? Why is December 12th the cutoff for having a contending team? Are we not aloud to improve the team after today? Who is saying they aren't trying to compete? How is making the moves they have made not trying to compete? I think I'll trust DS to decide what the appropriate value is for Hader. You didn't understand what i was saying...with what they have right now, on December 12th, NO ONE can say it's obvious they are truly contending next year, they don't have a 3B, they don't have a 1B, and haven't done anything to get a #2 starter. Then I also said it's also only December 12th(meaning it's early yet). I'm not sure how anyone can say right now that the moves they have made TO THIS POINT indicate they are trying to contend next year. Again, there is no 1B, no 3B, no #2 starter. Once those positions are filled and we can assess it more clearly, then we can make a determination if they are truly trying to contend. But with the moves they have made TO DATE(still moves to come certainly), NO ONE can honestly say they are trying to contend, unless they are just trying to convince themselves of that.

Jeff McNeil was an All-Star last year. He's been mentioned in this thread as a potential target. He'd be a solid fit at 3B I think. 27 years old, and broke out in a huge way last year power wise. The high-contact bat has always been there. He's be a nice part of a package. Admittedly, he makes me nervous, for MY liking, he hasn't done it long enough yet to be considered "proven" to me anyway. Maybe he'd end up being very good, but that would be too risky for my liking. Again, for me, if it's the Mets, it starts with Syndergaard, if the answer is no right away, I hang up the phone, and don't engage with them anymore. Personal preference.

I mean, Stearns told us after the arb deadline, and they non tendered everyone that they "plan on being competitive" this next year, right?? So to me, you can't on Decemeber 12th, change that statement, and be able to sell it. If you say it, you better mean it. Walking it back would be incredibly challenging. Now yes, it's December 12th, but can ANY of us right now at this moment, say the Brewers look like they intend to contend?? Yes, there's time left, but in regards to trading Hader, if you trade him, and don't get back major league ready pieces, that will impact the MLB team now(again, remember he stated they plan to be competitive), then didn't DS lie to everyone about being competitive this year?? If you trade a KEY component of your MLB team, you have to replace it with at least one Major league piece, equal or better then what you gave up, or the whole statement about contending, is hog wash, right??

At minimum if I'm not getting a TOR starter back, I damn well better be getting an All star bat back. Hader was an all star, you should expect to give one up.

Others have mentioned it in this thread I believe, but if I'm dealing with the Mets, I INSIST on Syndergaard, or no deal. Period.

I mean, prospects would be nice and all, but don't you HAVE to get all major league ready pieces for Hader if you trade him?? I mean, he's a major part of them being contenders, you can't have a "drop off" from that if you trade him. I will get ridiculed for this, but again, for me to trade him, I NEED a TOR arm back, as the centerpiece. Not one that could be in a year or two, one that already is established as one. I mean DS doesn't HAVE to trade him. there is NO reason he can't/shouldn't ask for the moon, and if he gets anything less than that, simply don't trade him. If someone wants him bad enough, then they pony up, if they aren't willing to pony up, eactly what DS asks for, then you simply don't trade him. Either way you can't lose.

If you're not happy with this signing, you're free to state that, but Homer already asked you to stop bringing this argument into every thread. Thanks. I will just stop posting then...It's not the same argument, but I guess if I don't conform to all the others here, I get "singled" out. Most here are totally comfortable with the Brewers off season so far, I guess they are allowed to be. I'm not, because I don't care for small time thinking, I never have, never will(and not just as it relates to the Brewers, but life in general), but because I don't agree with the Brewers small time thinking, I'm the guy that takes all the bullets, I get it.

What did Greinke cost? Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, Jeremy Jeffress, and Jake Odorizzi. Odorizzi was flipped for Wade Davis, a member of their bullpen for the 2015 World Series. Cain and Escobar started for the Royals. Not even two years later, the Brewers dealt Greinke for Hellweg, Pena, and Segura. Segura was okay, and helped the Crew land Chase Anderson and Isan Diaz. The former did okay with the Crew. The latter helped bring Yelich. Then there's what CC Sabathia cost for three months. Trading for the TOR starter is arguably more expensive than signing one in free agency. It's a different form of paying out, but it also matters. What kind of teams TYPICALLY go deep in the playoffs and win the World series?? Teams with the best pitching staffs, right??

You hit the nail on the head. The Brewers in regards to pitching sign guys that would normally be back end of rotation guys and make them amongst their top starters. NOT a sustainable strategy. Can you relax? You might as well become a Dodger/Yankee fan. Well, yes or no, is this or is that not what they do as far as starting pitching goes. It's a factual statement. Investing 25% of your total payroll into one starting pitcher who will play in at most 22% of your total games in any given season doesn't sound like a sustainable strategy either. Hence why we have always traded for TOR starters (i.e. CC and Greinke) instead of overspending on pitchers when they are nearing the end of their primes (age 30-32). This is a great signing based on potential upside versus guaranteed cost. If you don't understand why Milwaukee will never outbid the large market teams than you simply do not understand baseball economics. I get that they can't sign the top end guys, but then dammit, trade for one. Melvin did it with Grienke, and CC, though I would like to get someone with control. I mean, I don't want to trade Hader but at this point if it brings you a PROVEN TOR starter...go for it.

You hit the nail on the head. The Brewers in regards to pitching sign guys that would normally be back end of rotation guys and make them amongst their top starters. NOT a sustainable strategy. Can you relax? You might as well become a Dodger/Yankee fan. Well, yes or no, is this or is that not what they do as far as starting pitching goes. It's a factual statement.

You hit the nail on the head. The Brewers in regards to pitching sign guys that would normally be back end of rotation guys and make them amongst their top starters. NOT a sustainable strategy.

Can max out at 18 million with incentives...

Plan to use him as a starter...not that this is a terrible move, but I really wish the Brewers would stop treating starting pitching as the redheaded step child. Cheap signings hoping it works out is not a way to build a staff. It might work for a year or possibly two, but long term, no way.

You can't be serious, right?? They need a LEGIT #2 at worst, none of those guys are even solid #4's. How do any of them improve the rotation significantly?? They might as well light their money on fire.

Now in no way shape or form am I saying they should have signed Gausman(yuck)...But i'm wondering, so far you have said "pass" on just about every FA signed this year. You realize the Brewers have 8 40 man spots to fill yet and about 40-$50 million to spend, right?? Who exactly would you like to see them spend it on?? It's an honest question, because I don't know.

You guys here are all too spooked by injuries, either guys with past injury histories, or that they will happen to someone when they get older. You can't predict them, nor can you just "assume" someone will get hurt when he gets older. If a guy has shown he has come back effectively from it, why worry about it so much?? I absolutely would NOT let that deter me from whether I signed a guy or not. if he's healthy now, that's all I'd care about.

Urias bat needs to be HUGELY improved to play at 3rd Exactly this...you need your corner IF positions to provide power...he can't do that, at least not enough of it.

IF Kuechel comes in and he's not their ONLY big spend, I can get behind it...but if he's their "headliner" FA, not so much. Like you said, they also need bats, and I LOVE Castellanos. Might be the biggest proponent for him on this board. Think his bat fits perfectly in their lineup and replaces some of what you lose with Grandal and Moose. If their big signings are Kuechel and Castellanos, I would consider it a pretty good off season..if I had to only pick one or the other, I'd take Castellanos if I'm being honest.

I mean, this hits on what I said..no offense to you(because I have seen several people mention him), but why on earth would you spend that kind of Money on Dallas Kuechel?? Does he make the rotation THAT much better?? To me, if Kuechel is the guy you sign, you may as well have just kept Zach Davies. There isn't a distinct difference between those two to me. That's what I mean, the Crew keeps bringing in new pitchers, but really the only thing that changes is the name on the back of the jersey on a yearly basis. They aren't distinctly different then the guy the replaced from the year before. Maybe in some ways they are, but it's not head and shoulders different. It's like they try someone different just to try it. Like I said, if Kuechel is who you sign for that much money, why not just keep Zach?? He's younger, cheaper and about the same pitcher. Neither guy really misses bats, both have good ERA's for their careers, neither walks a ton of guys. I was no Davies fan by any stretch, but does Kuechel make THAT much of a difference for the Brewers as opposed to Davies?? Only you'd be paying DK that much more money for essentially the same pitcher, only left handed.

Bingo! This is why this year it's so important to have that proven TOR starter locked up for the net couple of years at least. no more dart throws, or trying to catch lightning in a bottle for a year or two. Chacin worked for a year, and then what happened?? He fell off a cliff, which is exactly what's going to happen at some point with these 2nd and 3rd tier guys. It's inevitable.

First of all if you are suggesting we should just give Corbin Burnes another shot at this point I don't necessarily disagree. There's too much arm talent there to give up on. Now I would prefer he spend some time in SA first as he's definitely a risk and you'd like him to re-prove himself there first. Secondly to answer your other question of why spend at all, I think you're underestimating the value that the right move can give you on the 2nd and 3rd tiers. We got more value out of Chacin and Miley in '18, Gio in '18 and '19, and Lyles in '19 than a lot of big market teams got out of their first tier spending for guys such as Yu Darvish. Burnes was just an example..My point was...sure you may catch lightning in a bottle once in awhile, like with Chacin and Miley etc..but that's a dangerous way to live if you ask me. What else do all three of those have in common?? They were all one year guys. I just don't think you can keep "shuffling the deck" in the rotation every single year like that, eventually, it's going to blow up on you. And you can say well if it does, at least it only cost them "12 million". To me that's not the point. It's still wasted money. If you aren't going to make a concerted effort to REALLY try and fix the pitching staff from the outside, and I mean give it some stability and continuity in terms of having the same guys for 3-4 years, then save the $$ and stay in house and hope what you have there works out. And you bring up Darvish...that kind of makes my point...yes, the Cubs had a lost first season with him..but...this last year he was VERY VERY good. Why?? Because he's proven. I would rather spend more $$ and get 3-4 really good years out of someone I'm pretty sure will be a stud for me(barring an injury) even if one year is bad, then to keep firing darts on one year guys and hope it works for that year. Guys like Chacin, Miley etc, would be absolutely perfect 3-5 guys, but they should never be your TOR guys even if they pitch like it for a year. You have 3 years of Yelich left...why not "go for it" while he's still here, and lay all your chips on the table?? Once he leaves, you likely have to rebuild anyway, so what's the difference?? The windows are so small for teams like the Brewers that when they do present themselves, to me, you better do whatever it takes to try to capitalize on it while you can, because you never know when it's going to come around again. I would just love to see Woody and another stud at the top of the rotation for the net 3-4 years, that in and of itself might make rebuilding(when that time comes), not be a true rebuild. But this year to year staff thing, will never work long term. I thought Stearns made a HUGE mistake last year before the season even started by relying on the young arms he had, and not signing a veteran. That was pretty easy to see it was going to blow up on him...and it did. Many here thought the very same thing. Now, that could have been mitigated to a HUGE extent, if they would have had another dominant arm to join Woody a the the top of the rotation. They have that and they probably cruise into the playoffs, rather then needing to go on an unprecedented run to squeak in. I would have thought last year if any would have taught Stearns, you can't live like that with your pitching staff(throwing stuff against a wall and hope it works). Obviously it doesn't seem to have...yet. let's see what if any other moves he makes.

Actually it could have...because when I gave that example, it was merely an example based on AAV and not years or anything else. I was assuming it would take about $30 million per year..Stras's contract is about $35 million per year..So I was in the ballpark..and actually when you consider his contract is really 7/165 with 80 million deferred..That's actually only 23.5 million per year. Doable for the Brewers.

Here's my thing...if you aren't going to spend in FA to acquire a TOR arm, or somehow acquire one via trade, then why spend on pitching at all?? I mean in reality, the way I see it, once you get to the second and third tier of arms(which is the pool the Brewers always swim in), are you REALLY getting someone better then what you already currently have?? Maybe...but maybe not. With someone like a Strasburg, or a Cole or someone of that ilk, you can be about 99.99% certain they will be significantly better than anyone else you currently have that could fill that role(Burnes etc). However if you go out and buy say a Dallas Kuechel, or a Michael Wacha for example, how much are you truly improving your staff?? Maybe slightly, if at all. So to me, with as much as people here talk about being fiscally responsible, it's not fiscally responsible, if you aren't going to go big, to buy pitching at all. Unless it's a substantial improvement, why spend the money at all?? just go with what you have, and hope it works. That's essentially what you'd be doing with a second or third tier FA arm you'd pay for anyway. Obviously, this is my opinion, and others will differ, but when it comes to FA pitching and talking about getting value for your dollar...it's go big or don't go at all.

Here is where I agree with you to a point. They absolutely could and should add one. I hope it’s Strasburg or Rendon. If they add Strasburg, they have him and Woodruff to start for them 4-5 times in a 7 game series. If you put together a rotation of Strasburg, Woodruff, Houser, Lauer, and someone still looking for a job around Spring Training, they would be fine. You only need 3 starters essentially for the playoffs. And having those 2 up top will lead to a lot of wins in the regular season. If you add Rendon though, the offense becomes elite. CF Cain 2B Hiura RF Yelich 3B Rendon C Narvaez LF Braun SS Urias 1B P That would be a top 5 offense in MLB, but lacking the horses at the top of the rotation. I think a lot of people agree with you in that we could realistically add a big free agent like that, but the way it’s presented comes off as aggressive and condescending. And not every move is going to be a big needle mover. Their moves this offseason of adding a top 20 prospect, back of the rotation arm, and a top 5 offensive catcher in the game only adds $4 million to our payroll. That leaves room to possibly bring in a big name guy like you’re suggesting. Plus these guys have more upside and higher floors than what we’ve been tossing out there the last couple years. These moves will lengthen our contending window, free up money for bigger name guys, and raise the floor of the entire team. It’s basically a win win situation. But I do agree that this is the time to go all in on a big guy like one of the two listed because we have a legit 3 year window with Yelich and need to make a serious run at a World Series by taking a gamble at some point. Adding a big bat like Rendon at age 29 and has at least 3-4 prime years left would do wonders for this offense. Strasburg is 31, but is a guy that I think will be like Scherzer and remain elite into his late 30’s. I think he’s a pretty safe bet as well. Both would be awesome additions for us. Just keep in mind that for us to even have a chance at bringing in one of those guys, we need to save money elsewhere like we’ve done so far this offseason. I love the offseason moves so far and look forward to seeing what they do. Especially next week at the winter meetings. I would guess Stearns pulls off at least one trade next week. And possibly a signing as well. Really looking forward to seeing what happens the next week. My biggest concern is not having seen the Brewers mentioned with any of these guys. I know, I know, Stearns keeps things close to the vest, but when I think about previous trade deadlines for example, we would always see the Brewers interested in someone. There hasn't been anything like that thus far as far as Free agents go. You would think something would leak. I'd love Rendon as well. he or Strasburg are my dreams. I'm interested to see what this week brings for the Crew...I'm HOPEFUL it brings a signing or a trade(just skeptical it will). They have a lot of spots to fill yet. Doesn't look like they are in on Ryu... Jon Heyman @JonHeyman · 10m #MNTwins are in on Hyun-Jin Ryu. Also: Jays and Dodgers (tho his old team is also looking even higher (Cole/Strasburg)