JohnBriggs12

I don't think the Cubs have enough chips to get Peavy. I'm sure Samardzija would be involved along with Pie and Hoffpauir but thats a bunch of unproven talent and they could get more than that elsewhere. As for their rotation if they got him Peavy would replace Marquis, and anyway you look at it, that is an upgrade that would more than make up for some decline by Dempster and or Lilly.

Am I the only person that finds it very funny every time some only mentions a players negetive attributes when a poster wants to discredit a guy? Yes he struck out 140 times. Yes, he had a low batting average. But he also hit 25 home runs in 120 games (5th best in MLB for CF although he played in about 1/4 less games), walked at a very high rate, played gold glove calibur CF and was a model team mate. But yeah the best way to describe him is as a player that hit under .250 and struck out 140 times. When another poster appears to overvalue a player in your mind, you need bring up the negatives to help make your case. I've never said Cameron is a bad player. Just that I don't think at this stage of his career his worth specifically to the Brewers, who have similar players with similar weaknesses, is $10 million unless of course his presence is the deciding factor in Sabathia taking a substantial discount of $10s of millions and signing with the Brewers. I want the Brewers to put the best possible team on the field like all of you. To me allocating $10 million of your budget to Cameron is not the way you do that, though others obviously think differently. Put yourself in Jim Skaalen's shoes last season. You've got a group of very talented young hitters but as happens your young hitters often tend to be impatient or start overswinging. So you try to drill them on basics as swinging at good pitches, taking the ball the other way etc. during BP. Into the batters' box steps a 15 year major league highly paid respected veteran team leader, who at 35 is still very talented but still prone to the same mistakes the young guys make. Who are the young guys going to emulate? The highly paid veteran that's who, not the fatherly hitting coach.

"Adding Vlad Guerrero to the Brewers would make them even worse...Do you really think this? You aren't really comparing Mike Cameron to Vlad Guerrero are you? Sure you could call Guerrero a free swinger, but he does something Cameron, Hart, Hall, Weeks and to a lesser extent Braun don't do and that's make consistent hard contact. It takes Guerrero 2 years to total the number of strikeouts Cameron got in 5 months with the Brewers. And yes, I believe one contributing factor to all those guys you mentioned OPS's dropping is the because the lineup did not have the required balance to it. Hitting is contagious as is not hitting. Add a guy to your lineup who swings and misses a lot, and that becomes contagious. Fielder in particular didn't see good pitches to hit, and always got the lefty specialist late in games, because there was no need to use that lefty specialist anywhere else.

While the Yankees would never part with Wang for Cameron (unless you threw in Fielder), somebody mentioned that Wang "wasn't anything special". Amazing comment on a guy with a 54-20 (.730) lifetime record and a career 3.79 ERA pitching in the AL. Yes he pitches for the Yankees, but there's not too many guys in the history of the game with a .730 winning percentage and a 3.79 ERA translates to around 3.55 in the NL which would put you in the top 10-12 among starters every year.

fondybrewerfan, Being from fondy originally myself, I hate disagreeing with you but the JS ran a poll on whether exercising Cameron's option was the correct move or not and 61% of the respondents thought it was the wrong move. Cameron was horrible down the stretch last year. The Brewers scored 51 fewer runs in 2008 with Cameron than they scored in 2007 without him. Part of that reason is that adding another free swinging righthanded bat to a group that included Hall, Hart, Weeks, Braun, etc, made it that much easier for opposing pitchers. If you put any kind of average lefthanded bat in his place, it's going to make it easier for those other guys because the pitcher at least has to think more.

Then why wait until the last day? He could have announced it then. It was reported that the Brewers held meetings on the topic. If he was so sure, why hold a meeting?

Do all you guys knocking this deal realize that Melvin had to think long and hard before even excercising Cameron's $10 million dollar option? Many of us thought that was a mistake. If the Yankees are indeed offering this package, I'd certainly take back my criticism of that move by Melvin. Who's going to offer a top prospect or starter plus $10 million of salary relief for a 36 year old OF who hit under .250 and struck out over 140 times? So Cabrera's not an All Star at 24 or Betemit is a utility guy? Cabrera hits right handed pitching pretty well: .275/.334/.393 and could be platooned in CF with either Kapler (if he's brought back) or Hall. He's certainly more accomplished as a hitter than Gwynn. Maybe he'll never be a star but he's certainly capable of .270/.330/.400. Betemit is a nice replacement for Counsell. He's not a defensive whiz, but he's got pop and can play all 4 infield spots and he'll just be 27 next year. In 2006 Betemit at age 24 posted a .795 OPS. Where are they going to find a utility player like that? Heck he could end up starting at 3B. You have to look at any potential deal for Cameron in the context of his contract and age. Cameron was a type B player after this season. At 36, he's unlikely to blossom into a type A, so let's not get carried away by the draft picks idea. Wang or Kennedy? No way Yankees bite on that.

It's Cabrera, Betemit, a pitcher and $10 million of salary relief (minus what you'd pay those guys) and you guys don't like that deal? How can you not like that deal? Melvin couldn't decide until the last moment possible whether it was worth bringing Cameron back or not for nothing in return. Betemit is similar to Branyan, but he plays all 4 infield spots and would replace Counsell on the roster not Branyan (who's not likely to be back anyway). Cabrera's still just 24 and is much more accomplished than Gwynn. He's better from the left side. Even in his worst year, he hit .265/.311/.359 against right handers. He could platoon in CF with Kapler (if he's brought back) or Hall for that matter. Besides Cabrera saw pretty good pitching in that AL East on a daily basis. The NL Central isn't nearly as strong. "he walked only 6 times in over 160 PA last year" But in 2007 with the Dodgers he walked 32 times in around 190 PA. I suspect the Yankees used him in situations where they wanted him to be agressive.

Bringing back Cameron for one year at $10 million only makes any sense if you are going all out to win in 2009. It also limits you to the infield for finding that lefty swinging high average, leadoff type bat they so desperately need. For that reason, the Brewers should be going hard after Roberts if not both Roberts and Mora. Maybe Weeks and Hall isn't enough to get Roberts and Mora, but it shouldn't take Hardy or Escobar to get Roberts for one year. How about Weeks and either Heether or McGehee for Roberts? Any offer for Hardy has to start with Markakis. Hardy and Hart for Roberts and Markakis? Now that would be a blockbuster.

Put me in the Villanueva camp. I'd get Juan Cruz and his heat to pitch the 8th, then bring in Villanueva to make hitters try to adjust and hit his devastating changeup in the 9th. We had a glimpse of the fire that burns in Villanueva that night against the Cardinals. I'll take that makeup in my closer any day.

$14 million per year isn't "ace type numbers" anymore. It's more the market for top #2. The Brewers paid $11 million per year for at best a #3 two years ago. Even given the likliehood of his ERA going forward to be in the 3.50 to 3.75 range, I submit only Gallardo is presently capable of lower than that, and he's never done it over a full season. Sheets only recorded an ERA under 3.50 three times in 8 seasons, yet he was the unquestioned ace when healthy until Sabathia showed up. It all depends on whether the Brewers acquire a starter via trade. I'd rather slightly overpay for a guy like Dempster that has at least posted an ace like season and therefore is capable in theory of doing it again, than overpay for a 4th or 5th starter who's best year might be a 4.30 ERA. Giving $7 - $11 million per year to a 4th starter can be a $6-10 million per year mistake as its just as likely for a pre-arby pitcher to post similar numbers. Now if you can find like the Cardinals did last year a Lohse type real cheap, that's fine. The other benefit of grabbing Dempster is that you take him off your rival.

His last 3 regular season starts and playoff game combined: 16 1/3 innings, 26 Hits, 25 Runs, 24 Earned Runs, 6 HR, 8 BB, 18 Ks, 13.25 ERA. You guys wonder why they want to rid themselves of a guy who just did that and is due for another $23 million over 2 years? It's amazing the Sox got in with that kind of effort in crunch time. A lot of my friends are Sox fans and they can't get rid of him quick enough. He was awful in the postseason with the Yankees in 2004 too. He has the reputation of folding in big games, and nothing he did in 2008 dispelled that. I'd stay away unless the deal included Suppan. I know at one time Kenny Williams liked Hall and he makes some sense for them, but I'd still insist they take Suppan and his big salary.

In 2000, he was 14-10, 3.66 ERA, 209 K's in 226 innings, .243 opponent BA. Please explain how that doesn't qualify as "pretty good"? He fell off some the next year but still went 15-12, struck out 171, and allowed about a hit per inning. After that he had injury issues. I agree that 4 years is a bit of a stretch for a 32 year old, but his bullpen years might have saved some wear and tear on his arm.

Who are you referring to RoCo? Counsell? Have you ever read my posts on Counsell? Who's suggesting Counsell at 2B? Not me that's for sure. No, Weeks and Hart are the best athletes on the team. Where I learned baseball, the best athletes played SS and CF. It's not unreasonable to think one of them could handle CF. So who would that leave to play 2B? Well there's even more options at 2B. Hardy with Escobar to 2B/, Hall, sign Durham to platoon with Hall, a FA like Grudzeilanek. As for RF, there's guys like Abreu and Ibanez on the open market and they'd have the $10 million saved on Cameron.

It's not so much dislike for Cameron but that he's not worth anything close to $10 million on a team full of free swinging right handed bats. I haven't even mentioned Gwynn as his replacement and I'm one of the biggest opponents of this move. They have numerous options that don't include Gwynn: 1. They could bring back Kapler for a lot less and make him the regular CF. Sure, he's not likely to hit .300 playing everyday, and he's only adequate defensively but he'd be a lot cheaper and he's not quite the free swinger most of this roster is. 2. They could move Hall back to CF (his offense is similar to Cameron's and they have to pay him anyway), which opens up 3B for Gamel or another player in a deal. 3. They could deal for a guy like Coco Crisp to play CF. 4. They could move Hart or Weeks to CF, opening up a spot for a LH bat. True, this move has risks but so does paying $10 million to a guy who might strike out 180 times. The fact that Cameron himself was surprised by the move tells me he thinks "Hey, I'm not worth it, but I'll take it." Maybe Cameron should be the GM. He makes more sense than Melvin does.

"Dempster was the product of the Cub defense and a prolonged hot streak." Ennder, how did the Cub defense help him get 187 K's or only allow 14 HR in 206 2/3 innings? The middle of the Cub infield was mostly Theriot and DeRosa, and those guys aren't great defenders. Neither is Ramirez. Was he a "one year wonder"? I don't think so. He was a pretty good starter early in his career as a Marlin. He figures to be a solid #2 starter at least for 2 seasons, then maybe slip back to a #3 toward the back end of his contract. I'd consider a 4 year deal at around $14 million per year for a guy like Dempster.

We had one on our roster last year making $800K by the name of Gabe Kapler. Certainly not as good defensively, but much more rounded offensively.

Hall was brutal in the first half, primarily April when he made 4 errors. He made one error after the All Star break that year and none after July 27th. He wasn't great but he was progressing at such a quantifiable and visual rate that had they kept him there, it was certainly within reason to expect him to be at minimum an average defensive CF in 2008.

The worst move of Melvin's tenure. Makes me angry that Melvin got his contract extended. He says one thing (we need more lineup balance, more contact, higher OB) and then he goes out and spends $10 million on the exact opposite. Everyone screams about Bill Hall's contract. I'd rather have Hall in CF. At least he's young enough to bounce back offensively and moving him back there opens up another spot for a lefthanded bat. Cameron is clearly on downside. He can't make contact. He's living off his reputation rather than performance defensively. He's righthanded in a lineup full of righthanded contact challenged hitters. With today's roster (minus CC and Sheets), it's a 75 win team, tops.

Willis made 3 starts in Sept. Two of them were decent against top offensive teams. He'll be 27 years old next season. He can hit like CC. I make that deal in a heartbeat.

I'm happy he's going elsewhere. Not that he's a bad pitching coach, but he'd been here 6 years and sometimes guys learn to tune things out. Having a new set of eyes and a different voice often is a plus.

Garland = Suppan. I'd rather not have another Suppan. Garland is only 29 (Suppan was 31 when he signed) and while his numbers are somewhat similar to Suppan, his career ERA is lower and was compiled strictly in the AL. I think the Suppan comparison fits Looper more than Garland.

I wouldn't touch him. They're already have money invested in Riske who will be trying to recover physically. Risking more on Cordero doesn't make any sense. Look at a healthy guy like Cruz or consider internal options at closer. Besides even when healthy, Cordero was more of a save accumulator that pitched in a spacious park than a dominant closer.

That "scrub" Ibanez was 5th in the AL in RBI in 2008, behind Hamilton, Morneau, Cabrera and Youkalis playing for the worst team in baseball. He's averaged 113 RBI over his last 3 seasons. Over those 3 seasons, the Brewers have had one guy surpass that, Fielder with 119 in 2006. How you can describe that as "mediocre" RockCoCougers is beyond my comprehension.

It wasn't in 2007, he easily earned $3.4M in 2007 but in 2008 he was probably closer to only $3M. You can't undersell defense. I didn't want to keep Counsell mind you but I will argue to my death against his contract being a bad thing. He pretty much earned his money even in an extremely limited role. In 07, Counsell hit .220/.323/.309. In 08, he hit .226/.355/.302. Yes he played solid defense, but there's an old saying in baseball: you can shake a tree and 100 good glove guys fall out, but good hitters are hard to find. He wasn't worth the nearly $3 million per year he made in 07 and 08. He would have needed to hit more like .260/.350/.340 to justify that contract. He was probably worth $1.5 million or so. He's certainly not worth anything close to $3.4 million going forward. I'd offer him a minor league deal to save a roster spot, then pay him around $1.25 million if he makes the team.