JohnBriggs12

To expand on Geno's point, aren't the Brewers going to be faced with a decision between Bush and Capuano at some point in the next couple years anyway? Having a backloaded deal with Suppan virtually guarantees (barring a trade of Suppan), no new contract with Sheets in 2009, and a long term deal for just one of the Bush, Capuano duo. Are they going to get better return than Rios when they are forced to move a pitcher? I suggested Capuano because they already had Bush once. That some Blue Jay fans want more is to be expected but are they being realistic? The Jays are on record as wanting a replacement for Lilly. Who out there is closer to Lilly than Capuano? We could give them more in either Jenkins or Mench or both too for an extra prospect (that young arm Melvin always gets).

It would only make sense to me if they sent Mench and Turnbow (addition by subtraction) for Lieber, then turned around and dealt Capuano to the Blue Jays for Alex Rios. That would work out salary wise too. They need offense, offense and more offense. Lieber would be fine in the Rick Helling role. No way I put him ahead of Villanueva to start.

I don't want Turnbow ruining another evening watching Brewer baseball much less another season. I don't think he'll ever return to his brief successful form. Hitters have caught on to him. Just take pitches. He's likely to get behind in the count and groove one or walk you. Sure he'll strikeout a few, but 2 K's, 2BB's, one extra base hit, bye bye ballgame.

Hammer715, welcome aboard. The sentiments you expressed on the Hardy/Hall situation are shared by many of us and discussed here quite extensively. Melvin's rationale that Hall has to play somewhere regularly and because of his versatility and ability to hit, he fits into an OF role seem reasonable on the surface. But some of us suspect that it's economically driven. Hall as an OF is closer to average, (re cheaper) than he is as a shortstop. I think that's part of it but it goes deeper. As good as Hall has become, he's never been one of the "chosen ones". By that I mean he's not been part of the group designated ever since their arrival in the Brewer organization as guys who will lead the Brewers to the promised land. In that elite group are Fielder, Weeks and Hardy, all of whom had positions cleared for them as will Braun when the time comes. Hart has alternated somewhat in and out of that group also (currently, he's in). But Hall was an afterthought relic from a prior regime who made himself into a fine player rather unexpectedly. His versatility was born out more of necessity than anything else just to keep a job. But now it's being used to move him from his natural position and possibly hinder his earning potential. As great a job as he did at shortstop in 06, it was not enough to unseat Hardy in Melvin's mind. None of this is to say I don't like Hardy et al, just that I perceive a class system at work in the organization. It explains why some guys like Hall and to an extent now Villanueva, who come up with little fanfare but perform well seem to have so much trouble convincing management that they can be counted on.

I think they could get Pena's production (if not more) if they made a play for Marcus Thames (.882 OPS in 07 in Comerica) who the Tigers have been dangling all offseason and who could use a left handed bat (Jenkins), or free agent Craig Wilson. But all of these guys have quite high strikeout rates and suddenly it's a low strikeout rate that has become the Melvin focus this offseason.

Considering the Brewers are "way over budget" according to Melvin, any deal regarding Jenkins and/or Mench would need to provide some salary relief. Considering Burrell makes more than Jenkins and Mench combined, I'd consider such a deal highly unlikely.

Despite his streakiness, Jenkins is clearly a better player than Mench. However, Gross showed enough in 06 to at least be more than a lefty PH specialist and his ceiling may be at least as high as what Jenkins can produce now. Plus Gross is cheaper and under Brewer control for more than one year. I'm resigned to Jenkins being traded but if he is, I would hope Mench goes too. I think what Melvin has to do is trade Mench first, then use Jenkins in a deal to get a different right handed OF bat to share LF with Gross. What I don't want to happen is to be forced to have Gross platoon with either Mench or Clark.

"Jenkins and Turnbow for Cla Meredith" Sounds good to me Weirdos. I totally disagree with the notion that Miller is a "must keep". Yeah, Al, he's not all that expensive, but when you are over budget, $1.85 million is still real money. It takes two 30,000 crowds to accumulate that revenue @ $30 per fan. I happen to think Rivera is better now than Miller, but I can understand the arguments on the other side. But they not only have Rivera but Closser who has major league experience too. Besides, Estrada is going to catch 110 games at least. hauser42, Rivera has been raking ever since he's been Brewer property. An .895 OPS at Nashville in 05, .827 in 06, then .774 as a Brewer in 06. He's hit 32 HR and driven in 113 runs in 569 AB's in that time. That's quite a bit more than a "nice run".

Let's look at the two teams that played last season in the NLCS, the Mets and Cardinals. On both pitching staffs were young pitchers who came up as starters who were big contributors in the bullpen. I'm referring to Aaron Heilman and Adam Wainwright. Both ended up in the bullpen because they were crowded out by veteran starters and both contributed valuable innings for their respective teams. Now Wainwright is being counted on to start for St. Louis. Now while I'm still not convinced Villanueva still isn't one of the 5 best starters, I'm virtually certain he's one of the 10 best pitchers on the major league roster and therefore should be on the Brewers on opening day even if it means in a relief role. He's logged enough innings in the minors and been successful in more than 50 big league innings. He should be rewarded with a spot on the Brewers. Sure, in case of an injury he might not be as stretched out as needed right away, but that can be accomplished soon enough.

The Orioles signed Jay Payton to play LF.

The problem isn't really lack of speed but an unbalanced lineup full of guys who are best suited to hit 5th through 7th. Weeks gets on enough to hit leadoff, but his talent isn't fully utilized trying to draw walks. Weeks has 30/30 ability. Batting leadoff, his power output is reduced by his taking pitches he could regularly drive early in counts if he's not so conscious of working counts.. Weeks also is one of the few with the potential to be a number 3 hitter, which may be a bigger hole than leadoff in the Brewer lineup.

La Roche is a real nice pickup for Bucs. I saw a report on ESPN or somewhere that LaRoche suffers from ADD. He got approval from MLB to use medication for it at some point this past season and took off. His post All Star numbers: .323/.387/.685.

If Alex Rios had come through the Brewer system, most of the same people that are dissing him here would consider him untouchable. If he and Mench were on the open market, he'd get 4 times what Mench would. They are just not comparable. The Rios of the first half of 2006: .330/.383/.585 was the Rios that the Jays had been waiting for. He's a true 5 tool talent about to enter his prime. If the Jays are foolish enough to shop him, I'd go for it.

My plan B would be to sign Jorge Sosa. He's only one season removed from being a very serviceable starter with the Braves. I'd slot him in the long relief, emergency starter role.

I agree with endaround. Vargas hasn't done enough to block a young starter with the promise Villanueva showed in 06. At worse, Villanueva's earned an equal shot to win that job in spring regardless of Suppan.

bsglorydays, You slough off Soriano pretty quickly. I guess 40/40 guys don't impress you much. DeRosa, Ward, Floyd, Cotts, Lilly, Marquis. True not that impressive a group until you see who they and Soriano replaced: Neifi Perez, John Mabry, Freddie Bynum, Juan Pierre, Glendon Rusch, Sean Marshall, and Carlos Marmol. Oh did I mention their best hitter played in 50 games last year?

Al, Last year at this time the bench was Hall, Cirillo, Hart, Gross and Moeller. Rivera proved to be an upgrade over Moeller. I'm a lot more impressed with that group than the current one. The Barnwell reference is a non issue thrown in there by defenders of the Counsell signing. The guy played in 13 games and didn't affect anything (though he did score the tying run vs. Detroit in a win) other than prompting Melvin to get Graffanino.

You are correct trwi7, Toronto wants pitching in return. Not only do they want pitching, they want a starter who has virtually the same service time as Rios. So Villanueva isn't going to do it either. They'd be interested only if offered a guy like Capuano. That's why I don't see it happening unless Melvin got Suppan and another pitcher somewhere. Even then, I don't think the cautious Melvin would do it. It would be a bold and controversial move and Melvin is a lot of things but he's neither bold nor controversial.

Rios is a year older than Corey Hart, who the Brewers are counting on as a middle of the order hitter. He's already made an All Star team in the superior league. I'd say that makes him a present star. As has been noted, his power has been developing but he's never been a huge strikeout guy like Hall. He's listed at 6'5" 195. Still plenty of filling out possible. He also has 26 assists in the OF. To quote Jerry Stiller: "He's got a rocket for an arm".

With the exception of Jones, the Cubs are almost an entirely righthanded lineup. That's the thinking behind going after Floyd. Murton is a good hitter, terrible fielder. His only position is LF but he really doesn't hit for the kind of power associated with that position. That's been the knock on him going back to his days in Boston's organization. Hence Floyd for some lineup balance and more power out of that spot. I wouldn't expect a pure platoon though, but more of a 50-50 split. As for Jones, the Cubs had dangled him too, but couldn't get value in return (much like Jenkins) though Jones had a better year than Jenkins, 27 HR, 81 RBI.

I only wish Melvin would have done as much pondering over signing an aged backup infielder as he is doing over a quality starter. My guess is it doesn't get done.

aracko I don't disagree with you at all on Sheets value on the open market. But Sheets isn't on the open market now and when he was he was happy with his $40 million deal. But you voiced concerns that Suppan's contract would make Sheets unhappy. I don't understand why everyone is so upset that I pointed out that Ben is 16-16 since signing the deal. I'm not trying to knock Ben but point out that he's not yet really provided the type of return the Brewers hoped for when they signed him for $10 million per year. I'm not blaming him or saying he didn't pitch well or didn't deserve what he got, I'm just stating a fact to illustrate my point. Does his contract over the next two seasons look relatively cheap? Sure, but that happens with everybody when salaries inflate like they are. I think I am complementing Sheets competiveness when I say I think he's disappointed he didn't do more in 05 and 06 due to physical problems so he's not going to complain about his contract vis a vis Suppan or anyone else especially when he knows he will benefit in two years when he is on the market.

No rluz, my point wasn't that Sheets is not a better pitcher than Suppan and I didn't intend to start a controversy. I clearly think he is. I was responding to aracko's concerns about Sheets reacting to Suppan getting a bigger contract by demanding a better contract. Sheets hasn't yet provided the return on investment of his contract due primarily to injury and secondarily to lack of run support. I'm sure he is as aware of that as anybody so he's not going to make any waves about his contract. Besides, if he stays healthy two more seasons, Sheets is fully aware that he will benefit greatly from the inflation of starting pitching contracts, so the more guys like Suppan get, eventually the more Sheets will to.

"is Ben Sheets going to be demanding a new contract?" Hardly. Under his current deal, Sheets is 16-16. In that same time Suppan is 28-17. Besides, Sheets' deal has just 2 years left. He'll cash in somewhere big time with two healthy seasons. Certainly one reason the Brewers may be pursuing Suppan is that they may not be able to afford Sheets' next deal. As for Capuano, they control him until he's 31. Why commit the big dollars just yet? Three seasons is a long time and who knows if he'll stay healthy. By the time he's a FA, the Brewers should have other rotation options making Capuano a prime trading chip.

If Rios were indeed available (which I question), it would take Capuano and Jenkins and I'm not sure they wouldn't hold out for something else.