OldSchoolSnapper

Losing this game is completely within the realm of possibilities. The Packers just aren't good this year. Show me a playoff team who is bad in the trenches on both sides of the ball. They are a good skill group on offense and almost nothing else - without Parsons especially, name one playmaker on the defense. I just didn't see what people saw in this team. The consensus seemed to be they'd win 10 or 11 games and I just don't see it. Worst part of all that? They don't have a first round pick.

Nelson and Adams were magic, Jennings very good but not at the level of those 2 for me. Driver had a great career but was washing out by the time they won the Super Bowl. Jones is a local legend, but not anything special, and Cobb, I never got the obsession with the guy. He had one strong season and was a glorified role player outside of that. He's an example of a TT extension that never should have happened...but your overall point is correct, I never really understood what was so wrong with Aaron's receivers.

Meh, that is hardly a rarity in the NFL. Guys play a different position in the NFL than college regularly, the list of current examples is endless. Peter Skoronski started all 33 of his college games at LT, was a unanimous first-team All-American there, got drafted 11th overall, and Tennessee immediately made him a guard. Matt Goncalves was a tackle his entire life, and Indianapolis converted him to RG. Your best OL is almost always going to play T in college. The entire line isn't going to make the NFL, just the best ones. Most of them won't be good enough to be an NFL LT, they get shoved into another spot. It's been standard for a long time to get your best linemen on the field, and make them learn the position accordingly. Your RG on a college team is unlikely to make the NFL, but an NFL team still needs to place a RG. The real issue isn't nearly as complicated as that. They are simply drafting bad players. They could be coaching them poorly I guess, but making them switch positions is basic life across the league.

I don't want to sully a new GT with sour grapes, but last week was so damning I just don't think this is a competitor. It wouldn't surprise if they went 9-8 and grabbed #7 again, but I would prefer a faceplant to that if it meant changing the guard completely. I'm tired of the 3 stooges allowed to celebrate being average with unlimited leashes. That said, I think they're better than the Jets if they can manage not to blow the double digit lead they'll most likely build. One thing I thought was odd last week was that Matt wasn't "inventive" with running the ball, which they probably actually need to try more of this year with how bad they are up front.

I never celebrated TT's end, but your point holds. I was always a fan. His FA was annoying at times, but he did take swings (Peppers, Bennett). My biggest gripe was him was forgoing FA in favor or extending very average guys seemingly forever. Hawk, Burnett, etc. I always assumed they placed a premium on character fits, but it was annoying as a fan. All that said, they had numerous seasons with teams plenty good enough. 2011, 2014, the end of Rodgers tenure. Not finishing the job those years really has nothing to do with Ted in my opinion. When you don't win it, the fans will always clamor about where you're not great. That always wound up being the targets for Rodgers, who weren't always spectacular. But I again, always assumed TT's line of thought was that you had the best QB in the league and he should be able to get by with less. It allowed him to build elsewhere.

Oh, Matt is familiar with the Super Bowl.

He's not wrong on its face, but you're most likely correct that had they scored a touchdown and gone up 12, they would have blown it anyways because well, it's just their thing. For a team not based in Wisconsin, I still think it's the right call. Go up 12, time is waning, starts to force the opponent's hand as far as what kind of offense they can run and makes them more predictable/desperate. But we suck, so none of that matters.

Oh, I was banging this drum in April during the draft and ever since. I was told it "means nothing" that their Day 1 and Day 2 picks from prior drafts aren't playing.

I'm not sure the 3 Musketeers are capable of feeling humiliated. Usually when people at those levels of an organization are this bad at their jobs, that's the case.

Second time it's been brought up, but that was basically because of what they shelled out for Micah Parsons, which was mostly unplanned and occurred days before the season. They were -$1mm on operating income. As an overall entity, their investments resulted in a net income of $132mm. They're just fine.

Packers were 9/13 on 4th and 1 in 2025. One of the failures came against the Ravens when Love didn't play. Two against the Bears on 12/20 One against the Eagles

It's not hyperbole. He's 30-24-1 without Aaron Rodgers. If not for expansion of the playoff field, he'd have qualified one time. That's absolutely fodder for some guys getting canned. Any defense of him begins with his joke "record as head coach" which is almost entirely what it is because of Aaron Rodgers. He is as big a fraud as you can get. I can't wait to see him hired on in some basement dweller franchise so we can see the guru work his magic.

TT found OL in his pocket lint. It was probably the thing he did better than anything else. He seemed content forcing Rodgers to throw to guys off the street, and he was mostly right about that, but seemed to take it to an extreme toward the end. It's legitimately incredible how little they invested in finding offensive linemen for the return they got for so many years.

His last few years look like an average Gute draft. And the core of the team that MLF stacked wins with, was with Ted's core players. You also don't mention Lane Taylor or Lucas Patrick, who were Thompson UDFAs and still starting on MLF's teams. More than Gute has ever done for the OL, frankly. This is exactly my point a few posts earlier talking about how they developed OL in the past - with low value assets. They had a system that worked with astonishing success. Gute sucks at it, so has turned to using early picks on OL, who also mostly just suck. Quite honestly, outside of #12, Ted is probably most responsible for the MLF's record as a HC that has kept him employed.

Ted's downfall, if you want to call it that, was thinking he ONLY had to use the draft. But if we are comparing his drafting to Gute's, they aren't even in the same dimension. Gute wishes he were half the talent evaluator. Thompson built multiple rosters capable of winning titles. Their missteps during that time are NFL films classics for what utter choke jobs they were. That falls squarely on players and coaches.

Uh, there is no pretending necessary. A boat load of guys from that 2019-2021 window where LaFleur won 39 regular season games and led to him still having a job today, were Ted Thompson picks. There's the obvious one in Rodgers, but: Davante Adams Aaron Jones David Bhkatiari Corey Linsley Bryan Bulaga Kenny Clark Jamaal Williams Kevin King - say what you will, but he was a starter. It's incredibly dismissive to say Ted didn't impact LaFleur's success. Hell, he impacted it more positively than Gute has.

Well I hope you're proven right very soon.

I don't think that's a great argument for MLF. So someone felt they deserved second chances after working with arguably the two most dysfunctional franchises in the league with maybe the Raiders arguing they belong in that group. I mean going 45-57 in Cleveland does sound like an achievement. The current 3 musketeers we have, have left this franchise worse than they found it.

So they would hire him to coach QBs or be an OC who doesn't call plays. They wouldn't hire him to HC. The book is out on the guy. I think 2 years ago, you'd be right, not anymore. His own peers (Saleh, Johnson) know exactly what he is. Everyone on the planet knows that record is the work of Aaron Rodgers.

You definitely have a schtick, but the results justified it, it wasn't a "sales pitch" whatever the hell that means. They had played 13 games and were in the pole position. They had beaten or competed closely with the top teams they had played. I get that your bar to clear is winning every game 35-0, but you're the only guy in the world claiming they weren't a contender at that point in the year. Were they the best team? No, I don't think they were. The cracks were there, and Seattle was statistically a better team, that had better signature wins throughout the season, and was more consistent on both sides. But anyone can do this silly exercise you're doing. "Seattle a contender? No they were not. Their offensive floor was way too low. They scored 13 points against the 49ers twice, and only 18 against the Colts. And my gosh, they gave up 37 points at home late in the year and 38 in a home loss to Tampa." See, it's an easy thing to do. Matt sucks. Badly. Last year they wouldn't have won it with any coach once Parsons was hurt. Odds are not with him either, but they were absolutely contending by the definition of contending, and my confidence that Matt would have choked is due to his long-storied history of doing just that, dating all the way back to his role in a 28-3 disaster in the Super Bowl and his multiple wilting moments in the playoffs with Aaron Rodgers. There is always a good chance you won't win the Super Bowl. I also haven't seen anyone say they were "loaded." But they certainly had a shot in last year's NFC, and it shouldn't really shock anyone that once they lost their best player they really didn't have one. You pay someone like Parsons to be a difference maker, he was an enormous one that lifted them from 7th seed purgatory to having a chance - key word a CHANCE - when he was healthy.

The decision to go for it on 4th and 1 was completely fine and if everyone wasn't emotional about the game and already hated MLF, it would be seen as such. The 8-point lead really changes nothing about the approach Minnesota takes going forward. They wound up scoring a TD and converting a 2-pt anyway. Yes it's true you can't just assume outcomes based on a different chain of events, but the point is that the FG makes it one possession and they are in the same circumstance, with the ball and needing to go get a TD. The TD on that drive was vastly superior than taking those 3 pts, no matter how catchy a slogan it is to say "never take points off the board." And again, it was a rare moment where MLF did the thing everyone says he never does. The QB sneak was terrible, whether Love optioned into that or not. The offensive line is awful, there was no pusher on the sneak, and worst of all IMO that was a long yard to get. They weren't inches away. Just bad. On a play like that you put the ball in the hands of your best player, which is Jordan Love's arm, you spread the defense out, put him in the shotgun and throw a quick 2- or 3-yard gainer. No way to know this, but I believe pretty strongly that if MLF had declined that penalty, there would have immediately been a post about how he was too timid to go for the throat and gain a yard and was a big sissy kicking a FG.

They're built for the playoffs as long as Miz throws gems. I think it all hinges on him. If he has a single start where he torpedoes it can all snowball from there. There isn't another pitcher in the league you'd want to toss that burden on, but it's still a big burden.

The opening week is in fact prime for overreaction, but that was about as boilerplate of an MLF loss as it gets. If they'd just done nothing and lost by 35, (as has happened) it would be easier to dismiss. Outgaining your opponent 2x, being in control most of the game, looking at the score and seeing 12-10 thinking it should be 28-0, 4th quarter obliteration. It had everything. Nothing has changed. This is the same team, the same style, the same faceplanting. The only difference is that now, the roster is significantly worse, they are completely half (not even one) dimensional on offense, most notably the offensive line, which may be one of the worst in football, they have no running back, and their cornerstone defensive star is out for at least 5 more games and probably more. It's a bad team. They went to the well too many times with the same plan. That just doesn't work in the NFL. Even with similar rosters, if you aren't reinventing yourself, you fail. I said in the summer this reminds me a lot of 2018 - presumptions by most that this is a playoff team, but just a feeling that things are going stale and they are about to implode.

Oh are you sure? Because I keep hearing that if MLF is fired he'll be a HC somewhere "in about 10 seconds." I call BS. Nobody is going to hire this loser to be a HC after Green Bay. Nobody. I have no doubt someone will bring him in to be assistant of QB development, but who in the world would take this feeble dope at HC?

I don't know if I'd say it bothers him that he doesn't want to be his friend, but I think he knows he's a weaker personality and that deep down he's Johnson's whipping post. Maybe that's the same thing. I think Matt's buddy-buddy crap is a defense mechanism of sorts. Johnson will approach both of those games like they're trying to score 70 points. With the way this wreck is unraveling, those games have Refrigerator Perry rushing touchdowns written all over them. He will be trying to humiliate the Packers and they are ripe for it.