Brewer Fever

Yeah a block M is way better than a ball and glove that by sheer stupid coincidence form an M and a B

Nah.

In my mind, it's clear the odd man out is Thames. He's every bit as fragile as Braun, if not moreso when the mental aspect is factored, and he's nowhere near the hitter. The lengths they're going to have Braun learn 1B tells me they want him in the lineup over Thames.

Under the revised scenario the answer is still and always will be A. Give me that feeling, that excitement, that parade, that memory at least once in my lifetime. This isn't something I want to gamble on. I wish such a guarantee was possible.

1- See box score 2- Immediately think of the reaction going on at BF.net 3- Contemplate who you'd expect to see jumping at the opportunity to post that the sky is falling 4- Go to BF.net to see it confirmed 5- Laugh 6- Cry 7- Remind yourself it's just spring training 8- Cry some more 9- Look for the latest Cobb rumors 10- Pray that Stearns has things under control

Accumulating a bunch of 1B/Of types would be a sound way to start an expansion team, not one with aspirations of someday contending for championships. You could conceivably have all hit no glove castoffs at the corner spots and give them all 500+ plate appearances. Then watch them put up the .800+ OPS we all know they're fully capable of. Then look to capitalize on their value by flipping them to a team that feels its a bat away from getting over the hump. Heck, that's practically summing up the Doug Melvin era.

In a world of guarantees (that don't exist), of course you take A. That's sticking strictly to the question asked. In the real world, you try to build something long term to give yourself as many chances to achieve the result in option A. In essence, you choose A in fantasy land and choose route B in the real world.

Maybe people aren't jumping at the chance to applaud your premise because it has some flaws? Just throwing that out there as a possibility. And to be perfectly honest, I hesitate to pat you on the back for stating something that was already kind of obvious. Every team values all around players, especially those who can handle the bat and the glove at the top of the defensive spectrum. And not so shockingly, that means there's value to be found in the many, many all hit - no glove guys who help cheaply fill out a roster. Your flaw, (in my opinion) is thinking Stearns wants to have a lot of these guys on his roster. I think he's trying to find guys to demonstrate trade-able value or get the team through a season with quality at bats at a low price. And sometimes both. But make no mistake, I think the end goal is to litter this club with as many all-around players as possible. I think a small market club always has a need to fill out the roster with cheap bats. But I highly doubt Stearns enjoys having as many of these all-hit, no glove guys as we have right now. It just takes time to acquire guys who can do both. In the meantime they're cheap alternatives, not guys you're wanting to build an offense around.

That doesn’t make them any better of a pitcher though. Who cares why Miley was signed and is likely in the rotation? The fact is he IS. And as of now Cobb isn’t. Obviously we need depth. But that doesn’t mean we have to sign a bunch of subpar pitchers with the expectation they fill the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. I’d be fine with Miley and Guerra as options number 8 and 9. They can be depth. Not 4 and 5 though. So you're completely dismissing the fact that Cobb might be looking for 18 times as much money as they committed to Miley? (45 million vs 2.5 million) And also assuming Cobb will drastically outproduce Miley? And also assuming that Cobb even wants to come here? So, apparently it's asking too much to stop for a moment and consider that maybe Cobb at whatever his asking price is, just isn't that much of a perceived upgrade in the Brewers eyes? What if he doesn't find his changeup? Even if he performs like a #3 starter, does that mean it's worth it to max out the budget and leave no room for any other addition? Why can't we think critically and consider these things? If Cobb's price comes down to where his perceived impact matches his price tag, the Brewers may very well jump in. And even then he still might prefer to go elsewhere.

And yes, in recent pages people are now reverting to once again questioning the Chacin signing. That's why I included his name. There are numbers to suggest Chacin and Cobb are on the same plane. The difference is, Chacin came at a bargain price. If Cobb's price drops to that level, or perhaps a little higher even, I imagine the team would definitely have interest in signing him. Perhaps it might still happen.

I admittedly forgot about Guerra's bonus option. The point still stands. The team will often throughout it's existence need to take a flyer on vet castoffs to lengthen control of prospects and maintain depth. You want a Burnes or a Peralta to force their way onto your major league staff, not be required because you're out of arms. Starting their service clocks because of their performance is one thing, starting it when they're not necessarily ready but you have no choice is a whole other animal. And I edited my post above to reflect what the Brewers would be looking at without having Chacin and Miley under wraps.

I just skimmed through the last 20 posts and forgive me if someone mentioned this and I missed it. The reason scrap heap guys get signed and ultimately wind up getting the first crack at sticking in the rotation is all about control. The Brewers have to go into any season assuming they'll need 9-10 starters to get through the year. Sure Woodruff, Suter, Wilkerson, etc have more long term upside and could probably provide the same if not slightly better results than the Mileys, Guerras, and Chacins of the world. But those guys can't just be stashed in AAA as easily, if at all. How are you going to compile 9-10 major league arms to fill a rotation without being able to stash 4-5 in the minors? And who are the players the team has the ability to option and keep in the fold? Of course, it's the young guys. You give the reclamation projects every chance to succeed because once they show they can't give you enough quality starts, they're gone. And now you're sitting with one less arm to get through the season. I'm sure I come off as an apologist to many here. I'm let down by what looks a sketchy rotation just like you guys. But there are things we as fans often lose sight of. Things like building organizational depth, the need to be able to store major league caliber players in AAA, free agents who simply choose to go elsewhere no matter how hard our team pushed, and unreasonable asking prices from other teams in trades. I don't care what team you are, you'll never get everything you want. And if you try to acquire players by sheer will, overpaying in terms of dollars or prospects, you will find yourself with no assets left to squander. This is true even for the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs of the world. Even those teams have had their moments where they had to hit the reset button or reign in sending. It's especially true with the small market Brewers. They can't rush the process. They can't just throw $45 million at a Cobb if it doesn't improve their outlook all that much. And they can't bring up all the young guys, cast away vets in the process and find themselves with only Junior Guerra and Aaron Wilkerson as starting pitching depth. Because you sure as heck don't want to start the clock on Burnes and Peralta. They'd be option 7 and 8 if the Mileys and Chacins of the world weren't added cheaply. Without cheap veteran adds, you'd be looking at this to start 2018 --- Anderson, Davies, Woodruff, Suter, Guerra in MLB and then its pretty much just Wilkerson before you're left considering Burnes and Peralta. Otherwise you're staring at Bubba Derby and Jon Perrin. Remember it's not black and white. It's not Woodruff vs Miley. It's big picture. It's how do we keep all these guys under our umbrella so we have enough guys to avoid rushing prospects who we don't want to burn service time with. Rant over. Proceed with discouragement and expressing how much this front office has let you down while ignoring real life ramifications of the team doing the things many here are clamoring for. Again, I don't like watching scrap heap guys either. But I get why they're needed and sometimes they even pan out.

Yep that's the only explanation

I strongly disagree. I think they make the Yelich trade even if Cain went elsewhere and vice versa. And I think you're a perfect example of falling victim to coincidental timing combined with the unfortunate misleadings of an internet troll.

I also still believe in the Rule 5 roster crunch theory. I think the Brewers will package together another 3, 4 or even 5 prospects to acquire a core piece sometime in the next 8 months. I think a top of rotation pitcher is the most likely target but would no longer be surprised to see them jump at the chance to add just about anyone if they feel the player is difference maker.

I think the reason that this thread is approaching 100 pages long is because a "not-to-be-named" rumor troll had many Brewer fans around here excited about Cobb to the point that, in their minds, he was already penciled into the 2018 rotation. I think many believed this would make our entire 2018 rotation better and had already rationalized that Cobb was a #2 starter since he was going to be a Brewer (as opposed to a #3-#4 starter that he likely is), which added to their anticipation of his signing. I firmly believe you are exactly right. Once people believed Cobb was our target, they convinced themselves that he was the final piece needed to put a complete roster together in 2018. The reality appears to be that no one on the current pitching market was deemed worth paying the price for, be it dollars or prospects. Instead of "it makes sense we're after Cobb, Arnold is very familiar with him", it very well might be "Arnold is very familiar with Cobb and doesn't see that much difference from what we have in house". In a video on this site, Stearns said they've been pursuing Yelich for YEARS. And Cain just became available in free agency this year. Instead of of looking at their closely-timed acquisitions as meaning this was a go for it year, it appears as though the Brewers are acquiring key pieces as they come available at a price the team deems appropriate. Having those two acquired on the same day combined with the unnamed poster's comments gave a false impression of what was really going on. I readily admit to making the same assumption at first. I have no doubt they will continue to make home run additions when a player they truly see as a difference maker comes available and the price is reasonable. I even think they're willing to overpay in those instances. I don't believe they're going to spend significant assets (dollars or prospects) on small or even medium upgrades.

Maybe they just don't like Cobb all that much, my goodness. Their opinion could well be that the cheap in-house options might give similar results at a fraction the cost. Laser focus on Cobb is falling into the mindset that everything must be fixed now.

I think the trap people fall into is looking at this in such a short window. It's clear here that many are disappointed that every hole hasn't been filled THIS OFFSEASON. It's clear that people are let down by the roster imbalance. I'd love it if they could transform this team in a World Series contender overnight too. But I also don't want them to overpay in trades or sign average pitchers to mega deals just to look good on paper. If people really want a window, use the Cain signing to tell you what it is. And if you think he'll drop off too much in years 4 and 5, then call it a 3 year window. They obviously didn't spend $80 million on him not to try and compete for a championship at some point during his contract. But it also doesn't mean they should wildly spend resources on whatever is out there today to plug every hole. The FA pitching crop wasn't that impressive. There were a lot of warts and warning signs with the available starters. But that doesn't mean they won't add one sometime in the next 12 months. It could come via trade or perhaps they like someone in next year's crop better. Heck, it could even come internally. This time next year, this team's perceived weaknesses could be entirely different. But don't just jam square pegs into round holes. Shop smart, spend resources wisely, and jump at chances to add highly valued players when the opportunity presents itself. You're not going to make good investments under the gun. That being said they have put themselves on a reasonable timeline with the Cain signing. It's just not a single offseason. There are a ton of comments about "this offseason makes no sense", or "I'm so disappointed with what they've done this offseason". "If they don't sign Cobb I'm going to be so mad", etc. To me that's petulant and childish. Try and see the big picture and be glad your small market GM doesn't recklessly try to build Rome in a day.

Just to make sure my opinion is clear, since I think I'm the one proposing that they aren't much more likely to sign an SP next year than this year, it isn't that if they don't spend this year they won't next year. My reasoning is that, from an outsider's perspective, if the SPs this year didn't move the needle, it doesn't seem like the ones next year likely would either, unless the rotation ends up being pretty bad, which I do not necessarily anticipate. I don't pretend to know budget wise what the Brewers really can or can't spend this year or on an ongoing basis. I think what you're saying here is very sound. And no, my post was not in response to yours. It's these definitive, cry baby comments I keep seeing where if we don't sign someone to fill out the rotation NOW, we never will. Those are comments people should truly be embarrassed by.

Yeah, he also has the ability to pitch like a fringe major league pitcher like he did for 3 years from 2011-2013. Then he started throwing his slider a great deal more and had a break through. If that slider takes its toll or he reverts back to throwing it less, his fastball is very ordinary. He very well may have 2 or even 3 effective years ahead of him but to say his worst case is a #3 starter has already been proven false. He could look like a terrible signing at 25 million as soon as 6 weeks from now.

It has nothing to do with the money not being there in the budget. The Brewers thankfully aren't going to spend just to spend. They spend when a player they rate highly going forward is available at a price that makes sense. So many childish remarks and so many armchair GMs. If they threw money at anything that moves just to fill every hole that currently exists, this team would be in the gutter in no time. So many of you think you sound so smart with your "I would have signed so and so for X amount of dollars" and "I would have signed either this guy or that guy and my rotation in 2018 would be this". The reality is that you sound extremely ignorant and completely unaware of how this process actually works. Get outta here with your "if they don't spend this year, they won't next year" nonsense. Let's try and raise the level of intelligence here if possible.

Hey look they did something. And before free agency even started no less. Are the impatient, spoiled children happy now? My goodness, so many conclusions drawn before the new guy could even get comfortable in the chair.

If one anomaly proves something here then yeah I give up. If you're still scratching your head at the mystery of why this offense stunk last year, nothing I or anyone else says is going to help you. The Brewers apparently felt they needed hitters who do a better job getting on base, put the ball in play, maintain discipline in the zone, and flat out strike out less. And they went out and paid a heavy price to add 2 of them. I happen to agree and think they were smart to do so. Their actions tell me that's what they thought was needed to make this offense stink less.

Yeah no one thought that in November, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have done it in March. True, but the money is already tied up in Sogard. And my guess is they have their money budgeted towards other needs by now.

Yeah it stinks, but my goodness hindsight is such an ugly human weakness. That's not directed at anyone in particular. Just an accumulation of reactions I've been exposed to already. It's like people expect perfection out of their sports GMs. Look at the smart guy who back in November said we should wait out this market and sign Walker for peanuts on a 1 year, prove it deal. Oh that's right, nobody said that. When the Brewers signed Sogard, there's no way the Brewers or Walker thought he'd be signing for 4.5 million.