HiAndTight

Wasn't Grandal benched the in the 2017 playoffs as well? Austin Barnes isn't the worst, but if we're going to pay I'd guess 60 million at a minimium for 4 years of a Catcher, I hope the guy can fend off a guy like him in the post-season. Grandal might have been our most valuable player in the NLCS.

Exactly my point. And yes, I can compare individual seasons. It's such flawed logic to think a player's ability, and success, is directly attributed to the guy standing in the on-deck circle. So you're saying you won't receive better pitches with the season's MVP in Stanton hitting behind you? I never said a player's ability is attributed to the guy hitting behind him, but he will have better opportunities to succeed. Of course he will. But for the record, I never said anything about who was better. I was talking about value. And if you DO compare Realmuto's '18 season to Yelich '17 season, they're pretty close...but again, one is a catcher with half of baseball looking to add him, the other is a corner OF'er.

I think if you're going to trade for a guy who's still cost controlled, but is has recently struggled, you're looking for a guy who has a high ceiling, but the team that he's currently on can't wait on him to see if he'll reach said ceiling. You take a chance on them because if they put it together, at the trade deadline you have a guy you can then flip. I am just guessing, but I would think when the Marlins look at a small guy like Davies without overpowering stuff, there just isn't much reason for them to want him in return for one of the best catchers in baseball with multiple years of control left. I would place Realmuto's value at this point close to Yelich's value last year. Realmuto is definitely a more valuable asset coming off his last season as compared to Yelich at this point last year, but Yelich had more team control. So I think you'd have to look at a similar type trade. They'd want an elite prospect(Brinson was definitely elite, and not that it's the point right now, but I always thought he'd struggle until he got ~1000 PA's) in the big leagues and then start having some success. But then we also had to give up two other guys who made top 100 lists and a 4th guy who rounded out the trade and was a bit of a lottery ticket. A lefty with pedestrian stuff, but that's on top of a top 15 prospect and two other top 100-ish prospects. I don't see Davies fitting in there without them wanting Hirura or Burnes+a Woodruff/Peralta...and then at that point, you could start to maybe talk about a couple young guys with team control and mixed results in the big leagues like Santana and or Davies. I can't disagree more. Yelich outperformed Realmuto offensively over the 4yrs prior to their trades and also won a GG while Realmuto's DRS is sitting in the hard negative (but he's very good at throwing out runners). Then factor in Yelich being 2yrs younger with 3yrs more control. Yelich's 2017 > Realmuto 2018 and Yelich still posted a 120 OPS+ the year he was traded while playing CF. If Realmuto's value is similar to Yelich that means he'll bring back (1) Top 20, (1) Top 65, (1) Top 100. There's no way that's happening and I will speak in certainties in this regard. First of all, speaking in certainties is foolish. Especially given how unpredictable the baseball world is, how much variance there regarding how teams view prospects(for instance, I don't believe the Brewers felt Brinson was a top 20 prospect when they traded him). So I don't know why anyone would do that, but if you want to put your name on it, that's fine. Second, you're compaing these two as though they're both left fielders. They're not. Finding good catching is the second hardest thing to do in basbeall behind only finding TOR arms. And you can throw out the GG argument. Finally, you seem to be going too far out of your way to make your argument. Yelich is 3 months older than Realmuto, so there's no two year difference. Yelich playing CF below average because he was in an OF with two other All-Stars is totally irrelevant..... Yelich was an under the radar trade. Teams are bidding now on Realmuto.

Absolutely zero? I'm not sure any team is going to sign him as their everyday SS. He'd have as good a chance here to rebuild some value as anywhere else. It sort of makes sense because on a one year contract to show he's healthy he'd be a good bridge to Hiura at 2B. There is an absolute 100 pct chance that when you make absolute statements about things you have very little inside knowledge about you're going to be wrong at some points. I don't think it's likely, but the absolute comments are a bit of a pet peeve.

Again, I know I just said it, but we threw 85 million dollars at a 31 year old OF'er last year. One who'd been injured more and produced less offensively. I fully appreciate that Cain is a very good defensive CF'er and McCutchen is no longer a CF'er, but the two moves...not that different. If anything, I think we were taking a big chance and throwing money at him to "see what happens," moreso than the Phillies are. They know what they have in McCutchen, we got lucky and Cain produced a career year offensively.

Agreed, but this signing isn't that much different than the Brewers signing of Cain last year. Two 31 year old OF'ers who have zero question marks about work ethic or character, but Cain was more often injured and his OBP and offensive stats really pale in comparision to McCutchen's. His Defense is outstanding, so that offsets that a bit, but the Brewers also went 2 years longer. Now if Cain can continue to be a high OB guy...even if he drops 20-25 points, and plays good defense, his contract will be fine. But I think this is a more reasonable deal for the Phils than at 1st glance....at least my first glance.

I think that's been pretty significantly refuted by multiple posters. They've disagreed with it....I don't know how it can be "refuted." Just as I disagree with your premise that Quintana had more value than Realmuto at the time of each trade. Of course I don't like absolute statements in any respect, such as stating absolutely what is and isn't going to happen... With the state of catching in the big leagues right now, if you can add a guy who can be a middle of the order bat and who can play very good defense, that can make an enormous impact on a team. Of course just because I think Realmuto is more valuable now than Quintana is when he was traded doesn't mean the return is gonna be the same. I think the Cubs over paid for Quintana.

I think if you're going to trade for a guy who's still cost controlled, but is has recently struggled, you're looking for a guy who has a high ceiling, but the team that he's currently on can't wait on him to see if he'll reach said ceiling. You take a chance on them because if they put it together, at the trade deadline you have a guy you can then flip. I am just guessing, but I would think when the Marlins look at a small guy like Davies without overpowering stuff, there just isn't much reason for them to want him in return for one of the best catchers in baseball with multiple years of control left. I would place Realmuto's value at this point close to Yelich's value last year. Realmuto is definitely a more valuable asset coming off his last season as compared to Yelich at this point last year, but Yelich had more team control. So I think you'd have to look at a similar type trade. They'd want an elite prospect(Brinson was definitely elite, and not that it's the point right now, but I always thought he'd struggle until he got ~1000 PA's) in the big leagues and then start having some success. But then we also had to give up two other guys who made top 100 lists and a 4th guy who rounded out the trade and was a bit of a lottery ticket. A lefty with pedestrian stuff, but that's on top of a top 15 prospect and two other top 100-ish prospects. I don't see Davies fitting in there without them wanting Hirura or Burnes+a Woodruff/Peralta...and then at that point, you could start to maybe talk about a couple young guys with team control and mixed results in the big leagues like Santana and or Davies.

Yes, this is ALWAYS a given. What's also a given is that every great player and just about every great team now needs to use it's farm system to sustain success. Even the Sox who can spend 200 million are built on a foundation of studs from the farm. Every team probably has 5 or 6 guys who have the potential if everything breaks right to be an ace. I'm of the exact opposite view point, you hoard them in the hopes that you catch lightning in a bottle and develop an ace as the value that brings to a team like the Brewers is almost impossible to quantify. And just point out a flaw in this logic, you say you like MLB ready pitchers more than younger ones who are futher away and thus more succebtible to the road blocks...well...no offense, but obviously. But how exactly do you develop the next Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff if you're trading all the guys who show promise away when their in the lower minors due to higher risk?

Nothing new. There are a lot of guys who don't deserve to be in the HOF who are in. Rizzuto, Sutter, Mazeroski…..the latter being especially bad. Meanwhile they don't know what to do with guys who were no doubt HOF'ers like Clemens and Bonds before most assumed they started juicing. I don't know what the answer is, but the Hall of Fame needs figure out what the hell they're doing because it's always had deserving guys on the outside looking in and vice versa, but right now there's no real standard. You have to be wondering what a guy like Edgar Martinez is thinking watching someone like Harold Baines getting in to the HOF while he's not.

How exactly do you know this? I find it hard to believe they were as desperate as you suggest to move a guy coming off a .875 OPS in his age 24 season and even harder to believe that nobody wanted him. I have zero doubt Cleveland would want him as the best and main piece back for a pitcher like Bauer....both things can be true without this level of hyperbole. I would guess that they made him available, probably even actively shopped him and then determined that they couldn't get back what THEY deemed equal trade value. That's just me guessing because I never read definitively from anyone anywhere that they were trying to even trade him. But again, don't think they said he was available and just nobody wanted a cost controlled 25 year old player who just had a 3.3 WAR season.

No he is not. That's is ridiculous. There is a significant gap between one player not having as much value as another and foolishly saying one player is "awful." Santana is a 25 year old who got squeezed out of an OF last year that had two MVP candidates in it and in his age 24 season had an .875 OPS. Not saying he's Ted Williams, but it's absolutely ridiculout to say "he's awful."

I'm not sure what you're saying. I'm pointing out that sometimes MLB prospects say one thing, then do another. I'm comparing Bell's situation to Fernandez's. One said he was only going to sign in Miami, one said he wasn't going to sign and was instead going to go to college no matter what. Things change when the money gets real.

Well, it's tough for the police in some of these Latin American countries to enforce the laws when they're literally on bikes and they're only option to pull a car over is to motion to it as it goes by and hope that it pulls over.

We are the smallest market.......we can and do spend money.....we just can't compete financially with big market teams. These are facts.......you don't have to like them but it's silly to ignore financial realities. We have limitations that many other markets don't have so mistakes that we make hurt more. If you let that kind of rational run your team then you might as well give up. Before you start. If your not going to make a move or spend money because you might fail you have failed allready,and yes we are the smallest market but not the smallest revenue in MLB. The poster you're quoting LITERALLY said in the post we can AND DO spend money. Yet for some reason you decided to quote him.....yet ignore what he ACTUALLY said, then create a fictional argument that YOU could argue against, ie, that we're not going to spend money in order to suggest that the team coming off 96 wins and a game 7 loss in the NLCS has failed already if they're not going to spend money or make moves, something not one single person has suggested. Only that its' ridiculous to panic before the Winter Meetings take place because a couple teams have made big moves. We're supposed to try to be respectful...but it's not only disrespectful, it's intellectual dishonest to intentionally mis-represent what someone else says in order to keep throwing a tantrum because we haven't signed Bryce Harper or traded for the reigning Cy Young winner or other players of their caliber.

And you also have to assume some improvements from the young players we have. But a Harper signing....that's just beyond ridiculous. What's more, you don't have a clue what's going to be a "needle moving" signing at this point, and neither do I. Brian Dozier could be signe as some "not significant" 2B to fill a hole and show that his FA year was an outlier and bounce back to his 2015-2017 seasons. But that wouldn't count as a big deal because...for some reason 2nd base isn't important and it doesn't cost us a lot of money? This was kinda funny at first, but now it's getting so ridiciulous...especially with the fantastical big money suggestions and definitive statements on what will or won't be a "neelde moving" deal based on the position alone...

While technically true that he would add to the number of starting pitchers, you're basically saying we need to move some guys like Davies and Guerra or else a TOR type arm is just blocking young, and up to this point unproven starting pitchers. Woodruff, Burnes and Peralta are all really impressive young arms who looked really good in relief roles last year, but I'm not looking at Robbie Ray as a guy who's blocking anyone. And I think we're making huge assumptions that they're even gonna trot Guerra back out as a starter. A Starter who strikes out 12 per 9 to team with Nelson atop the rotation would be about the best case scenario for the Brewers this off-season. Then they can massage Burnes innings, skipping him a few times to keep his innings down and the same if need be with either Peralta or Woodruff.

Dont care on the rules. This is my answer as well. Great pick find Plush. This is baseball and a rarity for a draft pick to make the team the same year. Barely 50/50 to make the Majors to begin with. Picking top-line talent and letting the kid find out what life is. You dont get your way when playing sports til you are a FA. Go ahead, dont sign, spend a year or more hoping to retain your talent without serious injury. And certainly delay youtself from the big FA payday. Ace on staff, or future MVP bat at 3rd base. Yep easy choice I know I'm REAL late to this party, but there are several guys who've stated one thing and done another. For instance, Josh Bell wasn't siging under ANY circumstance and was going to school at UT. Then when the money was real(and well above slot IIRC) he signed.

He wasnt.. it was sheer luck that he was even good.. every time he Took the mound i felt like we could give up 10 runs very easily. I mean, trading for Christian Yelich was sort of a major move. You mean the MVP they traded for giving up their TOP prospect and a couple top 100 prospects(3 top 100 prospects according to some sites) for on the same day they signed another MVP candidate in Lorenzo Cain? I don't think this guy is kidding. Goldy would have been foolish. And he was a prospect at one time, so yeah, we should do some "prospect hugging." Which...I assume just means not wanting to give up young, extremely talented players we control for the next 6 years. And as much as I wanted Corbin, and as much as I think 6 years 140 would have been fine for the Brewers, you DO realize he needs to also want to sign for that? He's a East Coast guy and 6/140 is already pushing it and that' what a top East Coast team paid. So how much do you think he wanted to come to a Upper Mid-West team? Another 10? 20? So we're really whining about one of the most active teams that past several years not giving up their top prospects for a one year rental at 1st base while we have a 27 year all-star playing there and not forcing a pitcher to sign with us over another team. LOVING that logic!

I don’t see the urgency here. He had a truly great 2nd half of the regular season but he still has 3 more years of control. And not to nitpick but he is not a five tool player. Though his D would improve if he went to his more natural LF when Braun isn’t playing. I'm not in favor of re-signing Yelich...seems pointless when we have a farm system loaded with young OF prospects and he has 3 years left on his deal. You'd just be paying him for half a season right now in which he was an MVP caliber player. I think he's great, but I don't think he's a triple crown type player. But I do think he's a pretty legit 5 tool guy. What tool is he missing exactly?

Agreed. If this was one yaer ago he'd be looking at 3 years 40 million. From what I've read he's open to a 1 year deal...I'd guess in the 10 million dollar range to prove he's still healthy and effective before signing next year for multiple years. But if you can get him done for even close to 3/18, I'd do that in a heart beat.

I hope the goal is to find something better and not to go into the season with 11 RHP's on the roster. I can understand why they'd want lots of relievers who can go multiple innings, and I can see the logic in saving a roster spot for guys with more upside, like Williams. But when all is said and done, if you look up and Hader is the only LHP in the pen, you're going to have a problem with match-ups. Even if every RHP reliever you keep is more valuable than Cedeno in a vacuum, that would constitute failing to see the forest for the trees. Another thing is that even though you don't get a lot of use out of LOOGY's, just the threat of having one is a factor opponents have to consider when making their lineups. Start the season with a pen of Knebel, JJ, Williams, Barnes, Woodruff, Guerra, and Hader and opponents will have too much freedom in where they put their LHB's in their lineup on those many nights when Hader is unavailable. I think that's 100 pct backwards. If you keep a soft tossing left handed specialist who can only go 1 hitter at a time in close situations and only gives you 30 innings a year over a hard throwing, far more talented right hander JUST because he's a left hander, that's failing to see the forest for the trees. You keep the more valuable players, the better players. Cedeno is just nothing special. He does his job and he gets out lefties and he's not the type of guy I'm against having, but not at the expense of Taylor Williams...or even Jacob Barnes.

I JUST happened to read an article on how much the Nationals had to spend this season and how the Lerner family did not want to come close to the luxury tax for a 3rd straight year(that was before the Corbin signing, just laying out what the article stated) and they said that they use the average annual value of the contract for the competitive balance tax. So I guess they money all counts against the luxury tax cap. At least that was what this article said and that was my best understanding of it. The figures used in the article were 140 million for money committed to contracts heading into this off-season, but 152 regarding the luxury tax. I was under the impression that Sherzer had even more money deferred per year and Strausburg had money deferred as well that would be more than 12 million, but I could be wrong on that.

Any way you slice it, to say the 2018 Brewers "can't hit" is hyperbole at its best. But it's the internet so I shouldn't expect any different. Fine, they could hit but couldn't score runs. Does that make you happy? Right after he talked about you being hyperbolic? They couldn't score runs? Well...you just stated they were above league average in runs scored, right? So they could in fact score runs. I have a feeling if we'd signed the best free agent pitcher, a lefty with a mid 90's fastball and a dominant slider who struck out nearly 250 last year, you'd be happy about it. And I don't see there being much of a chance the Brewers are going to fix those three "pitcher-level hitters," spots since Pina and the catchers aren't likely to be upgraded(without giving up a ton) and were in fact right about league average, and Arcia struggled(though you want to parse when the Brewers offense actually went over the threshold for leave average in runs scored, you conveniently leave out Arcia's resurgence that started right around the additions of Moose...who by the way was not exactly a great offensive player(OPS+ 104).

That's fair. I will say that I've seen 40-50 of his starts over the last 2 years (fantasy baseball nerd). I don't see a regression candidate. He is damn good. He throws damn near all sliders by my eye though. And he's a nibbler. Dudes stop swinging at the slider out of the zone, he could have trouble, because he has lost velocity recently. I'll be really interested to see how that contract turns out. He's a really strange pitcher. I think this is my most heartbreaking loss of a FA that was never really linked to the Brewers...ever. Damn...I REALLY wanted him and thought his makeup was a perfect fit for the Brewers and the money was not prohibitive, especiallywith B raun coming off as some of the young guys are hitting Free Agency. My guess is he'll have 2 more years as a legit ace, a 3rd year where he'sd a #2-ish pitcher and then 2-3 years where he's a good,solid, middle of the rotation pitcher who has some stretches of dominance. Lefty handers age well and he's just 29.