HiAndTight

The list though was teams who have good Shortstops to trade. I was simply focussing on SS's. But absolutely, the Tigers should be a part of discussions. Jacob Turner and Nick Castenellos might be a trade they make for a old billionaire owner just desperate to win and to win right now. Rick Porcello with the ability to get more K's and perhaps more GB's. Turner would be a great grab on his own, but a slugging 3rd basemen would also be nice. Just an impact bat really. I think if you're making a list of teams that want and or NEED Greinke, the list would or should go something like; 1-Texas Two straight losses, and they've got Darvish, and you(no pun intended) have no idea how he'll respond at the end of a season in the states, throwing in the cold as a rookie. Beyond him, do they really have an ace? Colby Lewis, Matt Harrison, Yu Darvish, Derek Holland, and Neftali Feliz with Scott Feldman getting some starts and now Martin Perez who has an ERA over 5.00 in AAA starting for them? With the best bullpen in baseball, and the best lineup in the game with respect to the Yankees, this team NEEDS Greinke, Hamels or Shields. If I'm the Phills I'm holding off on selling, the Rays could trade Shields and with all their talent really not skip a beat as they've got a couple potential frontline guys in their friggin BP right now. If they are willing to give up Profar, end of discussion, and I'm even more resolute in my argument that offering Axford along with Greinke is a legit trade for a talent like Profar. Of course their Bullpen is so good Axford may only be a mop up guy in that pen(seriously, that pen is amazing). ****By the way, they just made a perfect lineup on ESPN. I don't know who the writer was, but Elvis Andrus was the SS. And what's funny is they actually mention how this time next year he won't even be the best shortstop in his own clubhouse. 2-Detroit Obviously the owner 3-Boston Division, always in a go for it now mode. Just as the next team prospects are often overrated however. 4-NYY He's pitched terribly at Yankee stadium. I wonder if they'd prefer to try and pry Hamels away. 5-LAD They're winning and after the misery the recent marital discourse has put this fanbase through and the momentum they have, they should be lining up for Greinke. Imagine Kershaw/Greinke/Bills/Cappy how he's pitching? I just wish they had more talent because they also have a big need for a guy like Hart. It'd be nice if they had the Orioles or the Rangers farm systems. 6-Baltimore Somehow they're atop(or near) the division in the AL East. They've got an idiot for an owner and they shouldn't be trading Machado or Bundy for Greinke, but it's worth a try. 7-Atlanta Would they give up Simmons? They seem to be like the Yankees or Red Sox with prospects, but especially with pitching prospects. I think their big three of Teheran, Delgado and Arodys are all overrated. Very good, but slightly overrated. They've have to give up Simmons and one of those three arms though IMO. Well, maybe not one of those three, but another GOOD prospect. They DO have a good enough lineup that they could go with Pastronicky at SS and still have enough offense to win, especially with Greinke heading a rotation with Hanson, Beachy and Hudson. They can't be counting on Beachy to continue with his 2.00 ERA and sub 1.00 Whip or they'll end up disappointed just like last year with Juir. However Hanson as a #2, Beachy a #3 and or Hudson as their #3 with that lineup could get them deep in the playoffs. 8-FloridaMiami Marlins They're apparently looking to make a big move at the deadline and Jose Fernandez is blowing away the competition thus far and has 11.2 K's per 9 and throws in the upper 90's. They have some holes in their lineup and BP. Greinke+Axford for Fernandez+Marcell Ozuna would be a great haul. 9-Cincy They would be a LOT higher on this list if they were in the AL. They have a SS in Billy Hamilton who looks like he could be a .270/.340 type SS who could steals 150 bags in a season. Best base stealer in the minors and he's producing exceptionally well. And it makes the Reds the favorites to win the NL IMO with Latos and Cueto following him up. I wouldn't trade him for JUST Hamilton though. Not enough of a sure thing. 10-Cleveland Bad division, they're .500, they have exactly what we want. They trade for Greinke and they likely overtake the White Sox(while the Tigers pass up both). 11-Toronto See Baltimore and they have a smart GM. But if they want to do Lawrie for Greinke, we'll even give 'em Marcum back as well! I can't imagine the Blue Jays having made all the ridiculously shrewd moves they've made in the last year and a half to give it up for 2 months of Greinke when they still are probably not better than Tampa or NYY. They'd be better served to try and sign him in the off-season, bring up their superstar Catching prospect. Of course even after recent trades for Lawrie, Rasmus, Bautista, some great drafts, they've still got I think it was 11 B+ prospects and another 6 B- prospects according to Sickels. So they have the talent. Mostly on the mound. 12-Arizona Finally the D-backs. But while they'll likely be losing Drew soon and he hasn't given them anything, Bauer is untouchable, Bradley is likely as well and Skaggs is ahead of Bradley. If they've give up ANY of those 3 for Greinke and Axford I'd do it, but it'd make no sense for them to do so. 13-Pitt is the same as AZ. Great trio of pitchers, but they're also in Baltimore, Cleveland territory. Better off waiting and just seeing how their young guys develop than to take a chance on a team that isn't playoff quality now. That staff is still ugly even with Greinke, despite their results which like last year will once again come crashing back to Earth in short order.

His own team doesn't want him, why should the Brewers? Nothing about his stats in the majors or the minors screams major leaguer. Really? Please show me one statement anywhere that says his own team doesn't "want," him? If you're pointing out the fact that they sent him down to AAA because they had a better player, well then I guess the Braves didn't "want," Teheran, or Delgado or Beachy either, all pitchers who've been sent down. He's 22 years old. The, "his own team doesn't want him," comment is absolutely ridiculous. As for why he'd be a nice guy to trade for, well, we have absolutely NOTHING at SS, he's 22 years old and is coming off a year in which he hit .314/.359 in AA/AAA at age 21(posting an OPS in the mid 800's in about 30 games at AAA) and he plays good defense. We have exactly WHAT right now? Mr. Izturis? Ransom? Who HIS own team actually didn't want, not just a case of a top prospect tearing it up and a young guy struggling. Now....Marcum for him? No way. K-Rod with us picking up half his salary? Fine. We have nothing at SS, and he's a solid defender and should be at worst a league average offensive SS with very good speed. Ie, BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW. As for the comment about all the love for him, I haven't seen a lot of love for him. I've seen him identified as a player we could and should target as the Braves have a better SS behind him making him available and right now we arguably have the worst SS in the league regardless of who's playing the position. In fact, the only way you could get worst at SS is if we traded Izturis to another team and he somehow got a start the same game Ransom did. It's like trading for a swing man who you hope can give you a 5.00 ERA because you know your current pitchers have an ERA of 8.50.

HiAndTight, there's a lot of info here - thanks. I agree, this is waving the white flag. Probably for at least 2012-13. But if we are going to surrender, i'd rather just clean house and get what we can for guys who won't be here. Getting a good, young SS is on everyone's mind, but I think just getting the BEST talent is as important. Sure, if a SS is there, go for it. But other than catcher, I don't think there's any position we couldn't use in coming years. I think you may have misunderstood me somewhere along the line. Not only do I believe that cleaning house is a viable option, I think it's the ONLY option if we want to be competitive by the time the last 5 years of Braun's contract kicks in(WS competitive). And while you say you just want the best talent, I agree. But we HAVE GOT to get a good SS in the mid to upper levels of the system. If someone out there can tell me why in the hell we moved a guy in AA with great speed who draws walks and who as far as I KNOW wasn't a defensive hack or anything, and move him to the ONE position in the system we're absolutely FLUSH with 4th OF'er types. Aoki, Schafer, Morgan, Gomez, Gindl(can play CF), D'vo(still counting him), we just drafted a couple, one advanced, another playing in rookie ball, but then also Lee Haydel who keeps hitting and has GREAT speed. If Lee Haydel was at SS, and could play SS, he'd be one of the most talked about prospects in our system. Just because he plays SS. Its' like having a pitcher. You don't move a guy to the pen before he proves he can't start. Unless Prince has proven that and I just don't know it. My only point in pointing out those Shortstops are those were the top ranked SS's on a list; http://www.scoutingbook.com/prospects/ss And those are the teams that have the best SS's and Greinke's OBVIOUSLY the guy most likely to yield a top 5-8 SS. And frankly I'd feel better about one in AA or just a stud near can't miss Latin American prospect if we're going younger, because if we go with a Low A type SS, even an elite one, how much of an upgrade are we getting over an Arcia type? Not trying to pump him up too much(though I really do like him), I'm simply saying that's too far away and too big a risk without ELITE superstar skills. Like a guy like Lindor. But he's a rare guy. Which is why I just FLOATED the idea of trading Yovani Gallardo. If we're going to sell, lets REALLY sell and REALLY build for 2015. He's a guy who I believe is going to be a great #2 for the next 6-7+ years. So lets just say for arguments sake you could get Machado and Bundy for Gallardo and perhaps Hart? That a deal you'd do? Bundy just to keep everyone up to date is currently sporting a 14 starts/58 IP 70K's 10 BB's 3.14 ERA, .665 Whip. Machado is the clear #2 SS in the minors behind Profar is more than holding his own at 19 in AA. He's no Profar, but he's got 25 HR potential and is a very toolsy guy, and already posting a productive numbers at AA with a .760 OPS showing a little bit of power, he'll walk. I think he ends up as a .280/.360 25 HR. I think something BOLD has to be done to get Braun his World Series. And again, it'll suck to watch the big leagues, but I'm 100 pct alright with a 65 win big league team as long as the minor leagues are producing a promising future. I do NOT watch to watch a middling 76 win team that's void of impact prospects when we're already probably within 10 million dollars of maxing out our payroll(using next years figures, though I think IF WE WERE COMPETITIVE) we could hit 120 with the new incoming revenue from the added ticket prices, TV and radio deals adding 25+ million dollars. Anyway, I tend to get off point. Yes, impact prospects anywhere. Players that can build the type of balanced farm system that we can use to get out of that purgatory that is drafting in the 12-18 range every year. They say there are only two good draft picks, 1st and last in the NFL. Well, it doesn't work exactly like that in baseball, but the idea is still the same. Moreover, I'm worried that if we DON'T completely sell off right now and just completely purge this roster, Mark Attanasio is going to spend 115 million dollars next year doing something like spending 4 years and 60 million on Marcum and 4 years and 44 million on Edwin Jackson, or some bloated contract on to a JDLR...2 years ad 18 millioin or something. As I said earlier, move Hart, Greinke, K-Rod, Ax, Kottaras, Marcum once he's back, Wolf if he can work out his funk as a salary dump. Insert Fiers, Estrada and either Thornburg or Peralta full time. Or hell, what's it matter, McClung or Vargas for the rest of the year. I already think and wanted Maldonado to be our backup coming into the season, so that seems obvious. Veras if there is any interest.... With the additional playoff spot, this could be a great sellers market. I could potentially see the Brewers even getting a young B-/C+ type prospect for K-Rod if they paid his salary and they could get an awful lot for some of their other players.

I think everyone's with you and see's that we have enough young pitching..we've seen some of it, Thornburg was impressive in his jump until the back to back to back HR's, Fiers has been a revelation, and we have some solid players still in the system.

Lets say you could take back Orodzzi and Escobar. That an adequate trade you'd make? Not the Escobar that's hitting .290/.330 playing great D and the Odorizzi tearing it up in AAA, the caliber of players they were when we had them? That's my dilemma. Do the Braves give up Simmons and Teheran a pitcher who the shine has come off quite a bit? Because I'm having trouble finding many SS's right now that are available on teams that are good enough that Grienke could put them over the top. Frankly the O's trading Machado would be like the Brewers trading Braun simply because we got off to a hot start making no mention of the fact that they're also in a division that it'd likely take Greinke and Hamels to win. So logically you should write them off. Here are the best SS prospects and the teams they play on. Texas Obviously. We've beaten this one to death. I think the Rangers are just simply not going to trade Profar. I just think he's too good. Cincinnati Reds Billy Hamilton? I think he's probably the 3rd best SS. Perfect fit...teams and positional strength...if this was 1992 and not 2012 and we were still in the AL, but do the Reds really want a guy who could steal 150 bases a year and hit .270/.340...and I don't know that he's a long term SS or not. That would play into it. Zach Cozart? I have to admit, watching him range over behind second and go into the hole so effortlessly reminded me of Hardy this past weekend. He just looked like a SS who is going to be a GOOD SS for a long time, and Hardy spoiled us. Even when he struggled at his worst he was an asset and I think we now realize that. 9.1 WAR the two years before we had Escobar nipping at his heals and we sent him down. Even that year he had a 1.5 WAR and put up a line of .230/.300 with plus defense. Who the hell wouldn't jump at that right now? Cozart is hitting about .250/.300/.401 thus far and has a 1.5 WAR. I really think he's a Hardy type player. But again, the Reds aren't going to trade within the division and I really doubt they're going to trade their current starting SS that kinda brings their IF together and bump a Billy Hamilton up. So very unlikely to the Reds. But are you alright with getting just Hamilton for Greinke? I'm not. I'd want at least Daniel Corcino or their first rounder last year Robert Stephenson. Minnesota-Miguel Sano? He's not a SS anymore and he's not even close to being on a team that's got a chance to win. Cleveland-Francisco Lindor They're a team in contention and Greinke could certainly give them a big boost. Though I still think with Grienke the Tigers end up passing them up, and in the process they lose an elite young SS who at just 18 is performing well at A+ ball. But they're in it, and they have the one position we covet. And he's one of the best on this list. Boston-Xander Bogaerts is a very good SS prospect and Boston is the exact type of team that needs Greinke. They're in a brutal division with possibly 5 teams that could win the NLC. But again, he alone? Jose Iglesias is a better defender, but has been brutal offensively in AAA. Either case we need something coming back. I'd want Daniel Bart at the very least. Still not loving that trade. Atlanta-Another great fit. Tyler Pastornicky is theguy with the lower ceiling. Andrelton Simmons is the real price out of the two. One has a chance to be a 2.5-3.0 WAR type offensive player while Simmons can be an electric defender and be a .300 hitter. I think he's a 4.5 WAR type player. Beyond that, the Rays have a couple good SS, but seriously...what do they need Greinke for? If we're prying away a minor leaguer from them, it's for Corey Hart and it's going to have to include more than just him even. Maybe Kottaras+Hart+K-Rod+5-6 million for Hak-Ju Lee+a B- pitching prsopect? I don't know. I think Atlanta and Boston are the two teams that NEED Greinke the most to get INTO the playoffs, Texas is desperate for a WS, and if they're desperate enough to give up Profar, turn off the lights because it's over, it's him. But I don't think it will be. So I'm looking at Atlanta, THEN try and hope Baltimore or Cleveland to delude themselves into thinking they've got a legit playoff team and that they can actually win something, praying Texas is happy with Andrus and thinks that Greinke pushes what's already the best team in the game over the top and trades arguably the top prospect in the game of baseball because of the heartbreak of the last two years. So we start with Texas IMO, move onto Baltimore, then onto Cleveland, all of whom are likely to say no, then we go to the Atlanta's, Boston's, and Cincinnati in that order. But with Taylor Green, Gamel, Gennett, a Slew of OF'ers, pretty good looking at catcher, I think we need to target a young SS who can project to be a star and make him the focus of the sell. Then just pitching, pitching, pitching. We have some impact bats on this team that'll be around for a while. We should focus heavily on the DR/LA market and hope to be a 65 win team the next two years netting us top 5 picks, hopefully then we'll get a couple of our young pitchers up, shoot for 80-85 wins, build the farm system completely, no trades unless it's for other prospects and we could have a quick 5 year turnaround in which we've still got some great pieces and we're ready to compete. That would include Braun, Lucroy, Thornburg and Weeks. The rest should be on the market. Gallardo for a kings ransom, but we will struggle most of his contract in Milwaukee. Greinke-obviously Hart-Good trade value Kottaras-Great for a team that's lost it's starting pitcher Marcum once eh's healthy again; Axford once his value goes back up. This year if he can get on a hot streak. K-Rod Wolf-He's pitching better, if he can pick it up enough to dump him for a C+ prospect, do it. Talk D'Vo into coming back pronto. Veras-See what you can get from them. Take the payroll down as far as possible, save them money for the future, start building up a reserve if need be in order to sign a couple FA's when the time comes or extend our studs. See what you have in guys like Fiers, Estrada, Burgos, Peralta, Rogers next year in the rotation, as well as guys like Manzanillo, Wooten, Henderson, and just keep developing from within. Don't sell a potential poor mans Pedroia for a rental because you're only 6 games back. If you get 2-3 games within, fine, but not until then. This is a waving of the white flag, and it's premature, but the thing is, if Weeks gets going, Aram keeps hitting, Braun is Braun, Lucroy hits, Gomez keeps having good AB's(he's hit into a LOT of hard outs this year and simply looks different than before), Morgan continues his hot streak, Hart keeps it up, all of which should happen, we could easily get back into this in a 2 week period.

Again, disagree on Olt as they have Beltre long term, Young, they could use Profar and Andrus at 3rd....ie, they're loaded with 3rd base options. Profar though, as I've always maintained is just simply out of our league for any player we'd consider trading. I've ACTUALLY come around though on trading Gallardo. Not for Profar straight up obviously, and he'd be a bad fit with a park like Arrlington(though he'd still be a very good pitcher). But if we're going to be as bad as it looks like for the next 3 or so seasons, that takes us to the end of Gallardo's contract. Just imagine the return you could get for Gallardo. If we could swing a Gallardo for Profar+Perez who, as Crew07 hasn't put up the numbers, but has great stuff, that may be something I'd consider. But back to Greinke, it's funny, when people said I was underestimating his trade value when I didn't think we could get Profar for him, now there are those who don't think we could get Olt. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. You also have to look at HOW realistic a teams chances are of winning a World Series simply because of the addition of Greinke. I think the Rangers have about a 30 pct chance right now, higher than anyone else. BUT the Yankees can hit the ball, and if the Rangers don't care about his Yankee stadium experiances, he could really help slow that offense down.

Yeah, I was honestly thinking after watching him in Toronto....I'd sure take him right now over Izturis. Play him twice a week, Ransom the 4/5 times a week, Vizquel can PH in those situations where you want to move a runner over. Anyway, I don't think he's that far from being a gate attraction. It depends on the team. The Indians wouldn't fit right now because they're SS/2B situation is solid, but again, Seattle would be a perfect fit. As for the extra base hits, so what? Nobody thinks he's good right now offenively, the quetstion is-is he good ENOUGH to hang around for 2-3 more years as a utility IF'er. Dude looks like he's in great shape, still a solid defender all around the field. I think that's a resounding yes. And I think the last couple years show he's hanging on for 3,000. Which to me...suggests he'll get it. Out of 30 teams, and all the craptastic SS's out there, someone's gonna sign him to back up some of those guys...

The "only way," a guy can possibly get 140+ more hits is if he gets a full time job next year and plays the entire season? Vizquel's hanging around to get to 3,000, and there will be teams that will give him a job. And 50 hits is hardly a "major stretch." He's averaged 68 the last two years during which time he's hit .268/.334 For a utility IF'er who can play 3rd, SS and 2nd base and still play them all pretty well, and who again, is ALSO a bit of a novelty who can draw fans. ESPECIALLY if he's playing on a second division team like say...the M's where he started his career? And actually, he should finish this season around 2880 or so. So you're talking about 120 more hits for a guy in incredible shape who's obvious mission is to get 3,000 hits. Lets say he plays until he's 49. That's 30 or so hits a year. I think you're dismissing what 3,000 hits means to him, his status as a Venezuelan icon which I think gives him some traction, and frankly, his ability. Utility IF'ers don't need to hit .350. He's doing his job and he's done it good enough that teams will keep bringing him back until he gets it. And again, the M's are the team that I think are more likely to than any other.

I love this post and I could not possibly agree more. I'll admit a bias as I've thought for a couple years that Hart wasn't going to age well and have simply been waiting for him to fall off. He hasn't. He's put up nearly 10 WAR the last two years. BUT, if you look around at what inferior players(at least according to WAR) are getting paid, Hart looks extremely valuable, while somehow guys like Josh Willingham bounce around from team to team. Hart to me has looked so good this year that I would offer him maybe a 2 year 24million dollar extension with a 3 year either vesting option of a mutual option with a 2 million dollar buyout if WE decide not to bring him back at lets say 14 million, or I'd DEFINITELY look to trade him. And the to trade him or not comes down to what you said, what can you get for him. I wonder what Texas would give up for Hart at 1st base? It's basically their only hole, however it also offers protection if Josh Hamilton leaves via free agency and you'd have to imagine he'd have 2-3 more HR's playing in Texas. Maybe the Dodgers want to upgrade LF after Kemp comes back(though Abreu is playing very well, though obviously they may want to upgrade 1st base with Loney not producing). In fact, in addition to the Rangers, the Dodgers appear to be an ideal team to look to for trading partners. Evoldi for Hart is a deal I'd do in a second, or maybe Alfredo Silverio and Zach Lee for Hart. It all comes down to two things; 1-What can we do over the next three weeks. Can we actually go on a little run? I personally think we're capable of being a Rockie/A's type team(or take your pick) that could run off something like 15 of 18 POTENTIALLY with their pitching. Fiers has been so good, he, Greinke/Yo/Fiers has to stay in the rotation, stuff be damned, he is a good pitcher, it's that simple, Marcum comes back and Estrada is almost back already. I think Fiers could be that X-Factor and I said this before he even came up, but in 1992, what propelled us to a big run was Cal Eldred. He went 11-2 with a 1.79 ERA(11-1 with a 1.49 until the last game of the season when he had a bad start). If Fiers can give us a 2.60 ERA the rest of the way as the least tries to figure him out, we DO have enough talent on offense that we can turn it around. Aram already is, Weeks certainly can, Aoki, Lucroy is coming back, Hart is playing well, MM is a STUD behind the plate and better stay up and catch quite a bit when Lucroy comes back. I love that kid. Anyway, a simple Clint Barmes type trade could be a big boost and very cheap and if our lineup gets going, things have a way of having a domino affect. Of course chances are we do very little of that and we have a NUMBER of sellable pieces. Players we can legitimately get some GOOD talent for, talent that could help us in the next year or 2. Hart Greinke K-Rod Veras Kottaras A-Ram(especially the better he's playing if we eat 6-7 million of his contract, it's actually a pretty good looking deal). Marcum-Health dependent. Gotta get him out there for at least 5-6 starts, and strong ones. Wolf-Been pitching better, just to save money and get a flame throwing erratic young kid in rookie ball or low A. A lottery pick. You could easily end up with two top 50 prospects for Greinke, a top 50 for Hart+ a top 10 in a solid system, A young guy with upside for K-Rod, same for Veras, a flier for Kottaras, and at least a top 50 plus a second in B to B- prospect for Marcum. Green takes 3rd, stick with the craptastic SS position, Weeks at 2nd(only because I'm not paying 20 million to dump Weeks. Too much confidence in him). Ishikawa/Kottaras at 1st base, Lucroy/Maldonado, Braun/Gomez/Schafer/Aoki/Gindl in the OF. Yo, Fiers, Livan, Estrada and then whoever else. Play out the string, get a top 5 pick, use your trade chips to massively improve the farm system, and start fresh next year about 50 million off the payroll and rebuild. Something maybe we should do anyway, but with Mark A, I don't see him doing it until he believes he HAS to. And sadly I don't think many of those players will be shopped. But bottom line, it makes absolutely no sense to just dump Gamel at this point with the future we're looking at. It makes a HELLUVA lot more sense to either stay on the path we're on WITH Greinke, or then just COMPLETELY rebuild saving only Lucroy, Braun, Yo(and hell, maybe even test the market on Yo..just stick your toe in there. He's proven he's not really an ace and we're at the point if we did this we'd be terrible for the rest of his time here anywhere.

Please support that statement on how the Brewers "felt," about a particular player, because they sure as hell sounded pretty sold on him. That they brought in a player who was signed to a minor league contract and he made the team doesn't really say a whole heckuva lot. And how long WOULD they have waited? Why don't you tell us? Because that was one thing that RR stressed. How patient they were going to be with Gamel. He's 26, he's been blocked by our 4 best players(or 4 of 5) the last couple years while putting up huge numbers in the minors. Those are FACTS. Telling us their feelings or what they might have done with Gamel is just pure conjecture. Which is fine, but it's presented as fact. Guess who also hasn't hit over an extended period of time in the major leagues? Me! Because I haven't PLAYED in them. See? Pretty simple. I'm obviously being sarcastic, but he's never been given a shot to hit for an extended period of time until this year when he had a fluke injury. Giving up on a 26 year old with his minor league track record of hitting everywhere and his ability just seems foolish for a team likely headed toward a 110 million dollar payroll(or at the very least, close to maxed out on money). Where is the logic in that? This is the part I find to be the most off the mark for lack of a better way to put it without sounding like a jerk, but let me see if I've got this straight. Logan Schafer who has been beset by injury himself, and the Brewers haven't thought enough of to bring up to at a MUCH weaker position to give HIM an extended look. So Gamel's done, he's proven in the scrap's that he's played that he should be a throw in for another team despite massively outproducing Schafer all throughout the minor leagues. And Gamel is ONE year older than Schafer. So you're basically punishing Gamel for out-producing Schafer(in the minors) and not putting up big numbers when he got jerked around massively by the manager, and rewarding Schafer because he hasn't yet been deemed valuable enough, again, a MUCH weaker postions(and three of them) to be called up for any period of time yet. One last thing, by the time next season starts, Schafer, will be Gamel's age when this season started. Would you be ready to make Schafer a "throw in," type player in a deal if he had a freak injury going back to the wall and twisting his knee when he's basically been playing very good baseball.....which Gamel had. And we all know he had. It's easy to look at the season line in such an ridiculously small sample size, but we all saw how athletic he looked, the big plays he made, the little things he did on the base paths that showed us how much better an athlete he was than we realized, and his eye and his swing at the plate. He was hitting the ball hard. Gamel looked good this year IMO. I believe personally, the only way you can argue he didn't, is by using a tiny fraction of numbers. As I said, playing hard, great base running, good at bats, solid defense and more athletic ability than I think most expected. So tell me how it makes sense he gets just thrown out basically and Schafer handed a job. Of course what I think should ultimately happen is that Schafer AND Gomez should be on the team, Gamel playing in RF having to earn his role a little more, Schafer roaming the OF with the majority of the time going to Aoki and Gomez leaving Schafer as a 4th OF'er type. And they should have Gamel playing RF in instructional and working on it all off-season. No reason he shouldn't be able to play it. I'd say at this point he's more of an athletic player than Hart in terms of straight line speed and throwing arm from the OF.

If Julio Franco can play to 49 as well as Jamie Moyer, I see no reason why Omar can't stick around for 3 more years and get 50 hits a year. I think saying he has no shot is truly pushing it. I don't see him having trouble finding a job as a utility guy, and the closer he gets, the more of a novelty he'd be.

I'm not being sarcastic here, but did you mean to put this in blue? I only ask because I've always been baffled by it. You have two leagues who compete vs each other and they have different rules? Nothing seems more illogical to me. It DOES make it interesting during interleague and the world series and makes for some interesting decisions on where players play(ie, David Ortiz at 1st base), but I think it puts NL teams at a disadvantage. The slight added ability to hit for NL pitchers is MORE than mitigated by the fact that the player who hits DH for the AL team is likely significantly better than the best bench player for the NL team.

I think they could make a rule almost like they had in the NFL. Where teams were allowed to carry 3 QB's, but if you had injuries to the first two, the third one comes in, the starter can no longer re-enter the game. Now obviously it's different with substitutions because you can't re-enter a game anyway, and I don't know if it'd gain any traction whatsoever, but or if it's even logical to basically waste a catcher in that type of scenario where he'd seldom play.

I think people spent to much time talking prospects and forget about others that are actually doing better than Top prospect. Well, the reason for that is because it's a lot more common for a top prospect who throws in the 90's with a couple good secondary pitches to actually have a successful big league career. Not to mention that Burgo's hasn't been putting up big numbers until this year. It took him until age 22 to get out of rookie ball, was uninspiring against younger competition. Until this year. And I think people have been talking about him....almost exactly when they should have started to. He finally at age 24 started to perform well with mediocre stuff in HiA, and now he's dominating AA. Fiers certainly didn't get a lot of respect and he performed well at virtually every. It takes a while for guys with average stuff to get a good look, especially when they have average stuff and average results. So it's fair time for him to get talked about, and there was little reason to focus on him coming into this season with the same amount of interest that Jungman, Bradley or probably 10 other pitchers deserved. But, if he has something he's added, a cutter, if he has a deceptive delivery that allows his fastball to look deceptively fast like Fiers. Great. Maybe he'll be a guy who'll succeed throwing 88-90 MPH and thrive doing so. Obviously, we're all pulling for him to do just that.

If he gets to 3,000 hits, its' just another litmus test to see if some of the "old," numbers that automatically makes you a 1st time ballot guy still exists. I'm not going to bother to compare him to Aparicio, or Concepcion. There are players in the Hall that shouldn't be and players who should be, which is why when I asked the question regarding Adam Dunn, I asked a two fold question. SHOULD he get into the HOF and WILL he. Should he? Nah, probably not. I don't feel that strongly about that. He has 2854 hits, one of the greatest few defensive SS's ever to play, but I think if you go year by year...I would doubt he had too many years he was in the top 3 of all shortstop's in the game. But I don't see the writers keeping a guy who's defensive reputation is just below Ozzie's and who has nearly 3000 hits.

Great minds. I'd also add bring up Schafer and get him used to playing all 3 OF spots. Gindl may figure in there, but I can't see where. I guess you could always wait and see what happens to Hart, if he's willing to sign another 3 year deal in the 10-12 million dollar range, or if he's going to want a larger contract. If I'm him I'm looking at what Ethier got, what Werth got and some other players who at best are only marginally better than him, and I don't know if he's going to re-sign for a similar contract to last years deal and I don't know if I like going 4/60 for Hart in years 32-35. I think all of this needs to be considered before we just throw in Gamel into a deal. I still believe in Hart, I still believe he's one of those types who's going to come on later in his career and take off. Look no further than David Freese who didn't even debut until he was 26 years old, the same age that Mat Gamel is right now due to injuries. I can't imagine the Cards are the defending WS champs without him and have a huge hole in their lineup without him. Of course without Greinke this is all moot as it'd be pointless to bring back Hart in any scenario IMO and he should be on the trade market instead.

Why not just put him in RF and leave it at that. Cost effective, and there's little question he can hit. The issue would obviously be his defense, but Hart wasn't very good out there, and as we all saw, Gamel was a very good athlete. I believe he said he wasn't comfortable out there, but Hart said he wasn't comfortable hitting 5th or playing 1st. It seemed to be of little consequence when the time game for both moves. I just think with a team that has a complete lack of any type of impact offensive talent short of(no pun intended) Scooter Gennett and his level of impact is questionable obviously at this big league level, that it would make sense to try and work in a talented left handed bat into the lineup. We can all agree I think that our current CF situation looks good and should work itself out. Morgan will likely be gone. I think they keep Gomez because of his age, showing some signs of improvement, and the rest of the options are LH'ed and go with perhaps Aok and Gomez in CF, Schafer in CF but backing up RF and LF and Gamel in RF. I still believe that Gamel can give you at least a .280/.350/.450 20-25 Hr type line. With Hart, hopefully Weeks bouncing back, Gonzalez back at SS(not sure what you do here) and Aram who's still a threat at 3rd along with Lucroy behind the plate, that's a very balanced and very talented lineup IMO. Again, bring back Greinke and I like that lineup enough that with Fiers, Thornburg, Estrada and Narveson working their way in behind Yo, that could WS contending team.

There is no AAAA as much as people like to use. I personally find that term to be absolutely ridiculous. And he's NOW a AAAA player despite getting off to a impressive start just using the eye test(as he played so few games) because of a knee injury an injury that is pretty much routine now for baseball teams? Especially for a team with almost NO viable offensive players in their farm system? Mat Gamel's lack of big league success at this point in his career is not his fault in my opinion. He was blocked at the corners by 4 players who were either franchise players(Braun, Prince) a 2nd tier franchise type in Hart, and Casey McGehee who put up a line of .291/.346/.477/.823 with 39 HR's and 170 RBI's in 273 games with a truncated 1st season. Gamel during this time is being bounced back and forth, not given a chance to play regularly, jerked around, all while putting up huge numbers in AAA and not getting a chance. So I fail to see how a fluke knee injury now makes him a "AAAA," type player..which I'm not even sure what the definition of that is.

With Corey Hart playing so well at 1st base, accentuated by that play last night to end the game that I think would have been one of those Prince would have just come off the bag to try and ensure it didn't get past him, I'm liking the idea of a 6'6 1B even more, and he's looked fantastic fielding ground balls. So just based on my own eye test, it appears that he's going to be a huge upgrade defensively over Prince. Heck, he may alone be the guy who replaces Prince. He put up a 4.2 WAR last year missing the first chunk of the year to injury and losing points for his defense whereas this year he's looking like he might improve significantly on that defensive rating. It's also beautiful to watch a 3rd basemen or a SS make a great play, make a great throw off their back foot and still have a chance as Corey's showing an amazing ability as of late to adjust to the ball and make a helluva lot longer stretch than Prince. Hart's been a guy I've been calling for to be traded for the last couple years, but now I think he's found his home. So the question is, what to do with Mat Gamel? Trade him? You're not going to get much for him most likely, but we all know what he's capable of and he was showing it early on this year. He's athletic, so he's certainly capable of playing RF for the next however long we have Hart, though coming of an ACL surgery it would't be ideal, but I DO believe the Mat Gamel we saw last year is more than capable of becoming a viable RF defender. I think if he comes back with the same speed he had last year he's as fast if not faster than Hart. I actually think he's got a stronger arm from RF. Or I imagine he would. You alway s heard of about Hart's arm, but I was never impressed. And I honestly believe even after everything he's gone through, he's still going to become a good big league hitter. He just has too perfect of a stroke. Obviously last year it made most sense to move Gamel to 1st as he was already familiar with playing 3rd while Hart hadn't played in the IF in years. But now you've got a guy who they were sorta in between with anyway and just finally went to 1st this year. So a move to RF, while obviously not ideal for him, might be better for the Brewers. We've seen the 6'6 target and what that means for an IF as of late. Gamel needs to be in our lineup next year provided he can be at least a passable RF..which I believe he can. I just think we've been spoiled by that beanpole playing 1st over there that it'd be a bad idea to move him back next year. Make Gamel move an if he lealves after his contract runs up at 2013, then Gamel can move back.

This line of thinking, with all due respect, it starting to get tiresome. That you just automatically send the younger guy down so he can get regular AB's or isn't done learning there. 1-Not every major leaguer is going to be a regular, so sometimes players like Green are going to have to get used to playing 2-3 times a week. 2-Beyond that, if they ARE going to be regulars like Fiers or Green, how much better would you like them to perform before moving them up? This is how starting jobs at the big league level are earned. A player gets a chance and he plays well. I think Fiers has been absolutely outstanding and I think if Marcum's injured he absolutely should be in the rotation. And to be honest, I think that if Marcum does come back and is ready to go when he comes off the DL, Fiers SHOULD still stay in the rotation. I don't understand at all why it's a bad "precedent," to set? What, that a younger guy who's pitched VERY well in his first few starts, and his entire minor league career. Lets not also forget that Estrada was our long man to start the season and 30 year old big league pitchers lose their jobs routinely to younger prospects if said prospect performs a well or better. While Estrada has a 5.00 FIP Fiers has a 2.67 FIP in 10 fewer innings pitched including two 7 inning outings to save our BP when they were desperately needed. So I don't see how it sets a bad precedent to go with the better player. Now lets say Taylor Green was a 22 year old Rickie Weeks, fine. But he's not. He's a player who may start for a couple years, but his value for the most part will be in his ability to move around and play different positions and PH. So...I'm not seeing the problem. I think the Brewers owe it to themselves to see what they have in Fiers, see if he can continue to give us that boost we so desperately need while Marcum's out, and maybe just as importantly when he comes back. I honestly believe Fiers will finish the season with an ERA below 4.00 if given the chance.

Then why even bother with Livan Hernandez? I think people read too much into things. Signing an aging vet with some history of success to help keep you afloat after a rash of injuries wouldn't jive in any way with just waiving the white flag and giving up on the season.

I wouldn't be quite so quick to say he's "obviously," a better player. I would say that he's obviously been healthier. Weeks at his best has been better than Uggla at his. Uggla has simply been most consistently healthy.

Not yet. I'm willing to give him the rest of the year to figure things out, and probably part of next year as well. I honestly will be shocked if he's 'done'. I have racked my brain, and I can't think of one similar hitter that went from a season like last year to a .160 hitter for seemingly no reason. It's not like he's 38 years old, or some 24 year old who overachieved one season. He's 30 years old, with a track record of several years with relative success. Even when the "masses," thought he was bad, he was still a pretty damn good player. At ages 22 and 23 he put up lines of .259/.348/.399/.747 with 21 HR's and 35 SB's. That's a pretty good line for a 2nd basemen, and yet he was still called a bust. His defense however was terrible so his WAR was just 1.3 in those two years in about 185 games. Since then it's been 3.4 in 118 games 2.6 in 129 games with lines of .235/.374/.433/.807 respectively and then .234/.342/.398/.740 coming off the wrist injury. Those two years he was 24 and 25 and his defense went from AWFUL to below average. Then age 26 season, he got off to a great start, .272/.340/.517/.857 played above average defense, hit 9 HR's in 37 games and put up a 1.4. He was on his way to a great season. So he hadn't yet put it all together yet, but he'd clearly been showing signs and at least being above average offensively. Age 27 season he put up a 6.5 WAR and a .269/.366/.464/.830 line. Superstar status. Age 28 season he was again on pace to put up a monster season until that ugly ankle sprain, but still finished with a 3.7 WAR, .269/.350/.468 .818 with 20 HR's. So another season in which he was looking at an easy 5 WAR season as one of the best 2nd basemen in the game. So no, I can't possibly see him turning into a .150 hitter who's a negative WAR type guy. First of all, he's been doing a MUCH better job of waiting back on the ball the last week. You know when he's going right if he's diving over the plate every AB, or if his step with his front leg is straight forward. Sounds simple, but obviously it's not. Second, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if after the season we hear he had some injury this year or something going on. He just hasn't looked like himself thus far. Pure conjecture on my part. But no, a player who's been as good as him at his best, and at his worst has still pretty damn good during shortened seasons due to somewhat fluke-ish injuries, is NOT the type of player I want to give up on. And I'll fully admit, I have a bias, because I think if this question was posed for Corey Hart, I'd be more willing to dump Hart than Weeks and Hart's starting to really get a solid run of years behind him now. Not to mention, if Prince was our 1B last night, either his groin muscle would have completely detached from the bone, or he'd have had to come off the bag to field the ball.

I just believe it is too early to do so unless you're blown away with an offer, and that offer has to come FROM another team. You can't make it known publicly that you're shopping or you have guys shut down and it destroys the chemistry. Second, I think we should simply give it more time. With 5 playoff slots open and the potential of our starting pitching, potential that's being realized as of late, I see no reason to force the issue before we have to. I would have to agree, if he's offered a deal early for a Profara, Castelllanos/Turner for Axford+ Grienke(and i'd do that for Porfar as well), if we get two start type players who are a year or two from being all-stars and they called you, fine. I just don't get the damn need to discuss this. I didn't in April after a rough start, in May aftre a better month annnd now again in Maye when we'er just basically recycling the same threads

Wait, who said he was getting examined by a surgeon? I hadn't heard that. All I heard was that he was getting examined by the team doctor, William Raasch. Not any more than it would have been otherwise. The Brewers would be fools to not have Marcum see Raasch. I've heard a lot of people bash how the Brewers go about their treating of their injured players(which I've always objected to as we hear about 1 pct of the story, yet feel compelled to take the Brewers to task for this prospects delayed surgery after another option didn't work, or this players injury..etc..etc..etc..). Always found it foolish. And it'd be nice to give the Brewers the best chance to win. Melvin was just talking about how you can "easily," go from AA to AAA just a few weeks ago