HiAndTight

One of the biggest things that upset the Yankees was Pavano not telling them about an injury...I believe the 2nd last year there, and trying to pitch through it. So I didn't hear about him not caring, in fact just the opposite. He was ashamed, disappointed, whatever, about not being able to take the mound for them so he tried pitching through an injury. Still wouldn't spend the money for him. I'd rather we'd have signed JDLR over Pavano, but I don't question his character as much as others may.

I've always assumed that if Boston was going to pony up for one of the two, they'd prefer Gonzalez. Boston puts a premium on defense more than just about any other team. I really can"t come up with a legit list of teams that are going to aggressively go after Prince, and be able to pay him that much more than we can. Maybe the Cubs...the Giants I suppose both when he's a FA. The big options, both NY's, Philly, Boston...they're all pretty well set, especially if this trade goes through.

The prevailing thought seems to be that the Brewers are going to make a strong play for Greinke. At least that's been speculated. I was listening to the score and they had one of the Boston beat writers. He said he'd been hearing the Brewers were one of the favorites to get Greinke. I'm not sure about that with what Drayton Moore seems to ask, but he's the one guy I'd be willing to give away a package of Gamel and Odorizzi plus a couple fill in's. Maybe you deal Hart, get a top pitching prospect and then make the deal. I don't know. But he's one of the few guys who, maybe the only I'd be willing to give up that type of package for. I would NOT include Lawrie however. A rotation of Greinke/Gallardo/Wolf are your top 3 wouldn't be bad at all. And by the way, I have NO problem signing Correia if we sign him for something like 2 years 12 million. He's a pretty solid pitcher at that price and could be a nice back of the rotation guy. He'd also allow us to throw Rivas, Rogers, or whomever in there and limit their innings. Round out the big 3 with Correia and Parra to start the year and I think we'd be looking pretty damn good. The question is could we extend Greinke for another 3/45? That'd give us him for 5 years along with Yo and open up our window pretty substantially.

I thought it was better when the ball WASN'T caught. "OH NO!!! NO....NO....NO....that's just a shame....c'mon GUYS!!!" Just blind homerism....and that's not a bad thing.

I think the contract was a good one for his production. I too would like to see him traded, but I think his contract makes him MORE likely to be traded and has increased his value. Once Jason Werth is signed, I think the teams that missed out on him, may see Hart as a poor mans Werth and go after him. I think Brewers fans are nervous about him regressing, but still, his contract is still a very good one....IMO.

Agree completely. I think Lawrie could handle 2nd, but he doesn't have the quickness you'd like out of a 2nd basemen in a perfect world. He does however have plenty of quickness to play 3rd, and while I didn't get to watch him last year, I watched him play a lot the year before, and while he was obviously flawed, he's got very soft hands and a very strong arm. I've thought since watching him play for Wisconsin that he'd be a near perfect 3rd basemen for us moving forward. As for Weeks, yeah, he's only had one big year, but it's not like he's Gary Matthews Jr or anything and that year came out of nowhere. He was on his way to having such a year the year before, and even when he wasn't putting up huge numbers, he was still an above average offensive 2nd basemen. I think Weeks struggles are behind him, but you're also getting a nice big discount because of those struggles hopefully. Weeks at 2nd, Lawrie at 3rd, Gamel and Braun could give you a very impressive core offensively.

Unless they believe that signing Prince is now more likely than it has been in the last couple years, I have absolutely no problem with trading McGehee, Prince AND Hart. Replace them with Lawrie at 3rd, Gamel at 1st and then a platoon of perhaps Dickerson and a guy like Austin Kearns in RF(a guy I've been in favor of signing for about a year to provide us with a great platoon and a huge upgrade defensively). You could get a nice return in pitching, improve the defense a lot, and it opens up that window for our young pitching prospects by a WIIIDE margin. Of course you only do this if you're of the opinion that I am that Lawrie's going to be a Braun like hitting savant, Gamel's going to be a .300/.380 type who hits 20-25 HR's a year and that Hart is going to regress while Dickerson and whoever else can match Hart's production when you factor in the defensive upgrade. And with Prince, Hart and McGehee you would HAVE to assume you'd be getting a helluva return on the mound. With Gallardo, Wolf, the return from overhauling the roster with these trades and then Odorizzi, Peralta, Scarpetta, Rivas and all the rest it seems like this could really help this team turn over their roster with a greater emphasis on pitching and defense.

And here's just one more reason to hate the JJ Hardy deal. A player like Boggs, who can seemingly produce at least Gomez-esque levels based on his 2008 Rangers season, can be had for peanuts. Yet we traded a mid-20s HR everyday middle infielder for Gomez. Spilled milk I know but man... Hardy has 17 HR's in his last TWO seasons, so I don't know if it's fair to refer to him as a "mid 20s HR everyday middle IF'er". Obviously that trade didn't turn out to be what we wanted, but I'm not that upset that we took a risk and went for a guy as talented as Gomez for Hardy. It was a risk, but it had a great deal of upside at the time. Especially when you consider the best option we reportedly had instead of Gomez was Michael Bowden.

That won't hurt Fielder it will only help him. How does that help Fielder at all? It takes him from the top offensive player on the market to the 3rd. You figure that the Yankee's will be out of the running most likely with Tex and then Jeters eventual move over to DH(though not for certain). The Red Sox don't strike me as a team that's going to go for Prince, most likely they'll go after Agon. And then after the whole litany of teams with big money, I don't see many who would be willing to pay for Prince, or have the need for him. Mets-Ike Davis Phillies-Obviously Howard Dodgers-Loney, though they may be possible. I think the best chances are the Cubs and then a team like Baltimore who seems to make an aggressive play every so often. But ulimately I think that the market for Prince is going to be incredibly shrunken. In fact, I think at the end of the day that Prince's chances of staying in Milwaukee.....which I don't think is a great idea, BUT, his chances of staying in Milwaukee are a helluva lot better than they've been the last 5 years or most people on here think. 6 years 115 million is what I think he'll end up getting. And I'm a guy who thought Prince was going to ask for 27 million and get just under 25 only a year or two ago. I do think that locking up Prince could end up being a smart move for the Brewers. It'd take a big chunk of our resources, but you could then open up Corey Hart,Casey McGehee, and several others for trade while putting together an incredible offense. Sign Weeks and while we'd have very little money left, you'd throw out a lineup of potentially Weeks 2B/Gamel RF/Braun LF/ Prince 1B/Lawrie 3B/Cain CF/LuCroy C/Escobar SS. That's a potentially GREAT lineup. I think our lineup is going to be better in the future with or without Prince, but Prince could truly give us an elite offense. Then take Hart, try and get a good prospect for him, and then just hope that your young pitchers develop. The new TV deal, and keeping Prince, Braun and Weeks could help us push our payroll upwards of 100 million in the near future. CF and 3B already have Lorenzo Cain and Casey McGehee, respectively. Ideally, the team needs a lefty bat at shortstop or 1B. One of the K Davises would be options, but they're not going to arrive in Milwaukee until 2013 at the earliest. Same for Dennis. I think that Escobar is a little bit more entrenched at this point than Casey McGehee.

Completely, completely agree. I was a big Villanueva fan. When he was spotting his fastball, he was just damn near unhittable. In fact, when he was on last year, he was as untouchable as anyone on this roster. Of course he had his let downs and for whatever reason he wasn't able to maintain that dominance. I always thought he was better off as a starter as well. 88-90 Fastball 4 seemer, throw a 2 seemer that really moved in on lefties, one helluva change when it was on, and both a slider and a curve that it seemed like came directly behind his change. I also think someone's going to figure something out for him and he'll end up being a damn good pitcher.

There are at least a couple Brewers on there that I would really hate seeing exposed to the rule 5. The most obvious one that jumps off the page is Taylor Green. Is it possible we're trying to clear so much room from the 40 man in order to protect guys like him, Periard(whom I've been a BIG fan of for a while and still see him as being a fantastic back of the rotation type guy for us). Ramlow and Hand are two other guys I'd like to see us hold onto, though neither really seem to be difference makers. One guy that intrigues me a great deal, and who I could see becoming a pretty damn nice arm is Adam Ottavino from the Cards. Had a bad debut last year in the big leagues, but he's a big, strong, power arm who I could see developing a nice niche for the Brewers down in their rotation.

Agreed. Most of us on here can appreciate how loyal and dedicated he was to the Cubbies. It's a sad time for Cubbie nation. While I have to admit, I wasn't his biggest fan, and he wasn't exactly the most polished radio guy, you really could hear the emotion coming through. At the time I thought his agonized groans were funny, but hey, it's kinda cool to have a guy who's that emotionally invested into the team. Great player as well.

Agree with this 100 pct. People are arguing about people long term deals, but there are a few players in the league that are worth it. Eliminate every pitcher(obviously) and I'm guessing there will be a couple years in there in which he "only" hits for a .780 OPS, or he plays 80 games, but he's always going to provide great defense, and while it's a risk, I think he's about as good a risk as you can get across the league. Plus, teams like Colorado, like Milwaukee, and teams like those have to take a risk with special talents. Evan Longoria, Hanley Ramirez, Miguel Cabrera, Joe Mauer, Ryan Braun and a couple others with Tulo. If you can solidify the SS position for 10 years with a guy who should win multiple GG's while putting up big power numbers...that seems like as good of a risk as you can get, especially in MLB where guys like friggin Juan Uribe get 7 million per, Edgar Renteria gets 10 million per and Carlos Lee gets almost 20. I think if this deal works out like the Helton deal, the Rox are in pretty good shape.

If Braun was a SS I might agree. As it is, he is a crappy defender in LF. No reason to sign a guy into his 30's unless he can pay good defense or you are an AL team. I don't agree. Now if Braun worth what Tulo is.....or even close? Hell no, BUT, lets not ignore the fact that this is a guy who is on a career trajectory to have 3,000 hits and 400+ HR's with great rate stats. Braun had a down year last year and look what he gave you? Personally, I love this move for the Rox and would love it for the Brewers. I'd see if Braun wanted 4 years and 48 million added on to what he's already getting paid. Only way we're keeping Braun is if we re-sign him long before his deals up. Too much is made of his poor defense and I think the more.....informed fans out there, that is to say the small pct such as most on this board tend to go a liiiiiittle bit too far in undervaluing Braun. Probably to counter balance those who believe he's in the Evan Longoria, Tulo league, but all the same, 10+ years of .310/.375/.550 35/100 with good athletic ability on the bags is well worth it IMO. He's not Prince offensively, but with guys like Gamel, Lawrie and others coming up, I think he's worth more than many on here do.

Surly you can see a difference between Cam's 2 year deal, Sheets unique injury situation, and a player coming to the end of his team controlled 6 year run. I'm not sure what you mean about Sheets injury situation? Al claims when players enter their final year of contract, their extended or traded. Sheets entered 2008 in the last year of his contract. Under Al's generalization, he'd been dealt before the year started. Also, i'd much rather be called surly than Shirley, so no offense taken. I think it means Sheets had continuously been injured, ie, there market was not very strong for him, AND we had a team that we thought(And rightfully so) could be a playoff contender. with Cameron, he was an aging vet that people showed very little interest in when he was a free agent. I think the point that the Brewers tend to look to move their young guns when they're nearing their FA years and no possible contract extension is in sight is fairly established and I think you must see that and have to be playing devils advocate here.

No, actually what you should be mad at is the democratic process employed most often in which the citizens vote, or the elected representatives vote on building a stadium. I never understood why that can cause so much hostility, and yet literally thousands of things are passed every year in which a great deal more money is spent on. I have an uncle to this day who's still all fired up about the stadium tax(he's a very good guy, but he's not very.....informed to be polite). The average cost per citizens when the stadium was built was 8 dollars a year. Now I believe it's risen to 20. I'm more than happy with that, and of course you get hit on various items moreso, but so be it. It's the way of the world.

Funny, for me it'd be the Red Sox due to my seething hatred of the New York Yankee's. Plus, the Red Sox are also a fun team to follow in terms of their minor league pitchers. Moreover, I'd probably just become a fan of baseball. The Rays and Rangers would peak my interest. But I don't know, it'd obviously never be the same. If I had the luxury of picking a team though, it sure as hell wouldn't be a team like the Brewers that doles out misery to it's fan base year after year! That was a hell I was born into, not one I chose!.....and I'm only half kidding....

And had we had the benefit of knowing his prime was past at the time of the signing, you'd have been absolutely correct. But he was coming off of arguably his best career the year before, so that kinda blows that theory out. And what are you asking in your last sentence? Are you asking us to name one, or are you asking someone to name any ever? I can't imagine it's the later. Not to mention, Riske wasn't signed to be a "Middle Reliever", he was signed to be a SU guy, and rightfully so based on his past 5 years(prior to signing).

I still don't know what your talking about because they weren't traded for each other. Its pretty clear Hardy has been better than Gomez though. The Brewers gave up the better now player for nothing in return. Hardy will likely continue to be better than Escobar through next year. Now the Brewers have completely wasted 1 of Escobar's cheap years. I'm not quite sure how you can't know what I'm talking about when YOU'RE the one who just a couple posts above is comparing Escobar to Hardy in terms of what contenders want and which player YOU would prefer. Seems pretty simple to me. You're arguing that contenders would prefer Hardy because he's slightly better this year than Escobar. Or am I mis-understanding this; MJLiverock wrote:Hardy's offense has been disappearing and for all the grief about Escobar he has the same Obp as Hardy. Hardy may have already peaked and will be a FA after next season. I'd take Escobar easily over Hardy today. Xcellence(Your response):Not on a contender. Contenders want to win now. Contenders trade future talent for now talent all the time. This isn't a discussion of who has more trade value. If we were a contender and we had both players, Escobar would be in AAA. Seems to me it's pretty clear you're talking about Hardy vs Escobar, but thanks SO much for informing me again that they weren't traded for each other.

The 5 years prior to coming to Milwaukee he had a 3.03 ERA, and a 1.17 Whip. He didn't have great stuff, but he had pretty damn good numbers for a guy throwing 70 innings a year in the AL. This is a deal that looks bad with the benefit of hindsight, but looked find at the time.

Because a twice surgically repaired elbow can't throw 200 innings.Who can for the Brewers? In the last 4 years, this year included, we've had one guy do so. With guys like Rivas, Rogers, Jeffress(hopefully), Peralta, among others, we've got quite a few guys who won't be allowed to hit 200 innings for a couple years at least.

I agree he should be a lock to getting in. I don't agree necessarily he was the best position player on all those Braves Playoff teams. Andruw Jones was probably the better player on several different teams. Chipper was clearly the superior hitter, but Jones was a very good hitter, and the best defensive CF'er of all time according to many. Just incredible in CF.

I never said Iorg gives "false reports". Also, I'm not going to bother to argue what Isom meant by what he said about Gennett, to me it sounds fairly obvious, but if you disagree, so be it.

I'd love to see Counsell back for another year at 1.5 or so. My point is more about being able to get Taylor Green in particular into the equation, and in general to move some of our guys around a bit more as Farris for one isn't likely to do much as just a 2nd basemen.

Matt Cline is the 2B at BC. He has been better at the plate than Farris ever was, despite the fact that Cline didn't play last year. Cline has a 400 OBA this year, Farris had an OBA of just 341 there last year. Cline's been one of their 2nd basemen this year. He's played more at 3rd than 2nd though. Miranda's played 55 games there; Cline 46, Braun without looking again has played 15 or so. But that right there illustrates my point. They don't have a clear cut 2nd basemen. And Cline's almost 25 years old in HiA. Farris turned 24 at the start of the year and is in AAA. I would much rather have my utility guy be a strong defender at SS than a poor defender there but a good PR. Were not pulling anyone for a PR. Luis Cruz is a cheap utility option that is a strong defensive SS. Farris would struggle to put up a 600 OPS in the majors, if he played fulltime, and will be worse with sporadic playing time. Well, that effectively rules out Zealous Wheeler, but Cruz is fine as a backup SS. I was looking more for the year after next year though. I don't know if Cruz is going to be around next year or what their plans for him are. I'm also not sure how you can just throw out .600 as his ceiling. I understand you don't like Farris as a prospect, but I'm not sure how exactly you come to a .600 OPS for Farris in the future. Not that anyone expects him to carry a high OPS, and Cruz, the guy you'd prefer to go with certainly isn't a guy who has a very high OPS(a .528 in his brief big league stint) In any event, to be honest, my focus was far more on Taylor Green than Farris. Farris is forcing his name into the discussion though by hitting .290 at AAA. Obviously it's a light .290, and he needs to improve his walk rate, but for a guy skipping AA, and getting hurt this year, I'll take the high BA and hope the OBP can improve.