HiAndTight

I disagree on Coffey. He's used almost perfectly. I don't recall him being used down 5 in the 5th inning, but if he was, it was obviously a very rare occasion. I'd much rather we use Coffey when we're in trouble....whatever inning that may be. And he's the one who said he gets more effective the more he's used as his fastball gets more sink on it. I think "clear cut roles" are rather useless. Carlos Marmol when he was the most effective for the Cubs had no clear cut role. He'd come in in the 6th when they were down 2 and the other team had the bases loaded or in the 8th when they were up 1 and they had a couple guys on. And he got out of it almost all the time. I have no problem calling up a guy like Estrada and using him out of the bullpen. Especially when we were short and we were starting someone like Parra who wasn't likely to go deep. Not to mention, as far as I can recall, he's the only one. We may call up Loe, another guy who's not likely to be a starter for us in the future and use him out of the pen, but I think we're just as likely to let him go. In any event, we're certainly not stunting any real prospects growth by having them come up to pitch out of the pen.

I understand this, but our pitching isn't going to be good enough most likely next year to win anyway, so I'd rather our moves be more concerned with 2-3 years down the road. Not likely, but it'd be nice.

Back when Bud brought baseball back to Milwaukee he asked my dad if he would help him sell season tix since my dad owned a Real Estate company and dealt with plenty of transferrees. He loved baseball and the Brewers appreciated his efforts by giving him second row seats. When my dad retired in 92 my brother and I took over the tix and I believe there are around 90 original season ticket holders still being season tix holders. The Brewers do some nice things for us as my dad threw out the first pitch around 4 yrs ago when he was pretty far along with alzheimers but he went right up to the top of the mound and fired it in. I have a great rep for the Brewers who called me up and asked me if I wanted to do it. After getting excited I got even more excited when my thoughts went away from me and I asked Bill if my 12 yr old could do it. Bill was all for it. When I picked up my son at school that day I asked him how his day was and he said, good. I said not as well as it will be in a minute. He basically said huh then asked what's up Dad. I said the Brewers called and asked me to throw out the first pitch and Joe said, that's so cool dad. I told him I said no I couldn't do it but how about my 12 yr old son. The look in my kid's eyes I will remember forever. He was so excited then said let's go to the high school field so he can throw off the longer mound, (45' in little league). Bottom line I could have done it but I am so happy I can relay the thrill down to my kid and I am so proud my dad loved the Brewers so much creating this great opportunity for our entire family to share. Thanks for all the great thoughts. Wow...I was going to refrain from posting in here as my "that's a good memory" post would have been redundant, but that's just such an awesome story, and pretty much defines what it means to be a Dad. That just an amazing thing to be able to do for your Son. Baseball is about Fathers and Sons, and a father being able to afford his son the opportunity to throw out the first pitch at a game is just incredibly cool. The thrill you would have gotten from throwing out a pitch at Miller Park, and I'm sure it'd have been an incredible thrill, I bet doesn't even compare with the look on your sons face when you told him. Your post also makes me appreciate the hell out of your father AND Bud Selig for their contributions to Milwaukee, something that's all too forgotten when people bash Selig, the man who single handedly brought baseball back to Milwaukee. It's also nice to see someone who actually had a part in baseball becoming a success in Milwaukee participating rather than some CEO who has a sponsorship deal with the Brewers. Oh, that said, I may be from Wisconsin, but I'm all NY when it comes to the 1st pitch. That kid bounces one up there, I will boo the Bejesus out of him just like Invader!

I completely disagree. People never want to trade someone who is playing well at the Major League level, but at some point we need to actually pull the trigger and sell high on some of these players. Casey McGehee is performing as well as he's likely to ever perform in my opinion. As for all the holes in Gamel's swing, I just don't see them. Gamel was too patient last year taking too many called 3rd strikes, a side effect of limited playing time for a young player in his first real big league experience, but he's got a beautiful short, compact swing that has very few holes in it. As I said in another thread, I'd be very surprised if Casey McGehee out performed Mat Gamel over the next 3-4 years(McGehee's prime years). If he continues to hit as he has, and a team such as the TWins who are very poor at 3B at the moment with the likes of Nick Punto, and a LH'ed heavy lineup come calling offering something of substance for him, I think we'd be fools not to jump on that. As for how seriously he takes his job, I agree it seems like he's a good guy, but we're not even close to being privy to how seriously most players take their job to be able to make any informed judgment regarding it. I think predicting Casey McGehee's precipitous decline is far easier than predicting Bill Hall's, Corey Hart's or JJ Hardy's. I understand the love for McGehee, but I really hope Melvin uses this opportunity to capitalize on that all too elusive "sell high" concept that's doomed the Brewers in recent years.

I think this thread really just shows how much confusion there is right now with what the Brewers really have in their pitching staff. Axford and Braddock are pieces for the future. There's little doubt about that. Villanueva-I've been a huge fan of his and actually think he would fit better as a starter and that we pulled the plug on him as a starter too soon. His fastball may be straight, but he does do a good job of locating it, and his spike curve they alluded to has turned into a very nice pitch to go with his change...that I assume would return to prominence in his repertoire were he to become a starter again. Parra-There's almost no way I'd trade Parra. Just no incentive to do so. You're not going to get nearly enough to make it worth giving up on such a talented power lefty, even if the chances of him ever realizing his potential are slim. Coffey-I'm a big Coffey fan, but is he a part of our future? Estrada/Loe-WE don't really have a good idea what we have in either. Hawkings/Hoffman-Both are good bets to rebound, and Hoffman looked great in his 8th inning vs the Twins last week, and in his subsequent inning pitched, and Hawkins when he comes back should go back to being what he's always been. An above average SU man with a big fastball. But you're stuck in limbo with both of them. Riske-Another guy who had a long history of success when we signed him and has done nothing. Has had a couple good outings recently in AAA however. We have an idea of who's not going to be a part of our future, the problem is at least a couple of them are pitching so poorly there's little you can do to move them until they turn that around leaving you short on space to see what you have in some of your other young arms. Usually having all this good pitching is a good problem to have, but when so much of it is equally ineffective yet costly...not so much.

Yeah, I think we're really rushing to this "McGehee is a terrible 3B" conclusion. I throw out last year as he was moved from 2B to 3B, and had that bulky knee that was obviously very bothersome, which leaves me with less than 50 games of data with which to work with. McGehee doesn't have great range over there, but he's hardly the butcher he's made out to be in my opinion. As for Alex Gordon, Gordon's exactly the type of player that I want to see Doug Melvin targeting. I understand he's not likely to ever reach the ceiling he once had, but he does still possess the skills that made him one of the premier prospects in all of baseball and if he can conceivably be had for "cheap" I'd jump all over that. I frankly can't imagine why Corey Hart would interest the Royals at this point, though I couldn't imagine why Jose Guillen of the SS they traded from Seattle who's name escapes me at the moment would interest them either, but I'd be more than willing to dangle him out there. The potential return in such a trade is very high. Which leads me to my next point about Gamel. I understand Gamel's not a "sure thing" as nobody is until they've proven it at the big league level, I just can't for the life of me understand how those who saw him play last year, even as he was jerked around, aren't very high on the kid. He's got a great swing for a left handed bat, and I believe he ends up being a very good big league hitter and a much needed LH'ed bat to this lineup.

Because Capuano has a chance of getting someone out.Really, sentiment aside, it was thought Davis had a chance of getting people out too. Capuano was struggling before he got hurt and that was 2007. It's 2010. If they're completely out of it on August 1st, and you want to take a look at Capuano for a couple months that's fine. Personally, I'd rather take long looks at guys like Estrada and Rivas, than another recycled soft tosser but I can see giving Capuano an opportunity since they've invested this much time in waiting on him to recover. My point is they have guys up now to replace Suppan. Capuano for Davis down the road. Yeah, that makes some sense. A couple problems with this statement in my opinion. First, Capuano wasn't pitching poorly in 2007. He had an X-FIP better than his 18 win season, nearly 8 K's per 9, 3.42 K/BB ratio, a superior Ground Ball pct and a lower LD pct. Capuano's problem in 2007 was bad luck, a .342 BABIP and poor defense. And almost the exact same thing holds true for Doug Davis this year. Davis has actually improved in nearly every peripheral, LD%, GB%, K's per 9...across the board Davis has been the same pitchers. EXCEPT a .415 BABIP, and poor defense behind him. I'm fine going back to 2007 and giving both the ball every 5th day for the time being(when Davis returns) rather than rush Rivas in any way. I'd prefer to keep him down in AA for another year, and then start him(at the very least) in AAA next year. I don't think we've got anything to gain and only something to lose by rushing up our first legitimate starting pitching prospect from this new deep crop. Wait another year. By that time who knows where you are with Rogers, Jeffress, Periard, Lofgren and a handful of impressive looking relievers. But if nothing else Davis and Capuano give us the luxury of treating them with kid gloves for another season at least...

I actually agree with Hart to a degree. I feel as though he's been jerked around quite a bit. It seems he's never really completely had the backing of the organization the way others have(and I'm not talking about Prince or Braun as they're obviously much different). Hart's a good player. He's not a superstar, but he can be a positive player for a team, and hopefully now he'll get the majority of the starts and start to give that bottom half of the lineup some signs of life.

We don't have to make any moves for him by tomorrow. The Brewers will likely wait until Sunday or Monday to make the corresponding roster move. But my god, the knee jerk reaction to just instantly bash whatever it is the Brewers do at times gets a bit out of hand. We've got a rested bullpen for tomorrow having had a day off, AND a complete game shutout AND 13 pitchers in the pen. I don't see how we're in any jam with our BP whatsoever. As for the moves, I never liked signing Vargas in the first place, and while spending 13 million(plus 2.5 I believe for Suppan's option next year) is a lot for pitchers who aren't pitching, it's more costly to keep them up here and pay them that. Waive both of them..and worry about what other moves to make when Davis and Hawkings are ready to go again, though neither look to be close.

Yeah, I think the sources of the Gamel trade rumors have been message board fodder and some "experts" pondering if the Brewers may be looking at such a move. I'm worried about it with the emergence of McGehee. I think Doug Melvin's a good GM, and I don't blame him for not pulling the trigger on trading Bill Hall for some of the names that popped up with him(Matt Kemp for one), or JJ Hardy earlier, or even Corey Hart, but it seems like the McGehee/Gamel situation is one that I can see being screwed up very easily and one that should be very obvious to my way of thinking.

I agree on both counts. First of all, the important issue, Angel's health and well being, especially now that he has a child. Anxiety issues can be a pretty scary situation. I too had a close family member who suffered from severe anxiety issues after a immediate family member died. It was.....terrifying. I know they come in many different forms, but my point is that we're not talking about a kid who gets nervous playing baseball or who is worried that the organization "likes" Lucroy better. I think the word "Anxiety" is a poor word for the actual issue because everyone has anxiety issues, and it doesn't accurately articulate the seriousness of the disorder, and it almost sounds as something that you should just suck it up and try and play through when it's anything but the case. I cannot believe that the pressure that goes along with being a professional baseball player and such a highly touted one hasn't added to those issues as well. In any event, this is a serious issue and it's great news that it's something that's finally being addressed appropriately, and it couldn't come at a better time, not for the organization or baseball related reasons, but because he's now a Father and his metal health is of paramount concern. Now, on to the less important issue here, baseball; I've long said this, but I think Lucroy is almost certain to be a good solid league average or close to it(little above, little below) catcher. Angel Salome has a greater bust potential(I don't mean that as an insult coach, please don't take it that way), but he's also got the potential to be a truly special player. The one thing that concerns me on that end is that I think Salome because of his unorthodox swing needs regular AB's in order to succeed. I just hope he's given that chance with the Brewers at some point. Two very different situations, but I actually am worried that both Mat Gamel and Angel Salome will never be given a real legit chance to perform in Milwaukee and for the next dozen years we're going to be watching them thrive elsewhere. The fact that George Kottaras has been so impressive(at least he has been to me) as of late, coupled with Lucroy worry me all that much more that Salome may not be given a true chance here.

Yeah, his swing's a bit longer than Utley's, but not much. He's just so quick to the ball, I can't imagine why anyone would be down on him at this point, especially given the way he was jerked around by his organization. You expect the Adam Stern and Adam Heether's of the world to be treated like that, but to do that to your top LH'ed prospect on a team that's been painfully void of Left Handed bats in the last few years, it's dumbfounding to me. As for him becoming a plus defender, my thought process there is that you have Taylor Green at 3rd base whom I also like. Obviously not as much as Gamel, but I think Green can bring something to this team that it's sorely lacking, another good, patient "contact" hitter, and I'm loathe to use that term because I think it's overrated, but basically just a very nice complimentary player to the stars we have. A guy who can do a lot of the little things. Between Lawrie, Green, Gamel and Weeks, you have 1B, 2B, 3B and RF. I suppose Weeks could be jettisoned, though I'm maybe one of the few holding out hope he can still become a star. In the end i suppose it comes down to how badly do you want to get Green's bat in the lineup. I would really like to see him in there at some point in the future as our #2 hitter, and I think he'd thrive in such as role, and as such, I'm alright with moving Gamel over to 1st(though I also agree he could become at the least a serviceable defender at 3rd). Either way, I'm absolutely terrified the Brewers are going to do something asinine with Gamel and move him thinking Casey McGehee is the answer at 3rd base for the Brewers. I am a fan of Doug Melvin, but I'll say this, he is the absolute LAST guy I want to manage my finances. He's got the whole, "buy low, sell high" thing all screwed up!

Hart's struggles vs Right Handers is a bit overblown. He's not horrible vs Right Handers. For his career he's .263/.311/.462/.773 Not great, but I would hardly call it "horrible".

I meant that, out of a group that includes Jeffress, Rivas, Peralta, Odorizzi, Arnett, Scarpetta, Rogers, even Butler/Anundsen/Heckathorn, I would be surprised if we don't see a couple of (or more) good MLB pitchers emerge by the end of 2012. (Might as well go for 3 in a row, righthttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif) I completely agree with this. I don't recall having a deeper group of pitching prospects ranging from great to good since I've been a Brewers fan. Of course we've been burnt by the Gold/Neuggy/Jones types in the past, but at this point we've got a far deeper pool from which to pick from. I'm also on board the Amaury Rivas bandwagon. What more do you want in a guy? Mid 90's velocity(Though I'd assume he'll sit around 92-94), a plus change, and a developing off-speed pitch, and a guy who induces a ton of GB's to boot. Seems like a perfect compliment to Gallardo and some of the other high PC, high K, high BB type pitchers we've got coming up. Another one I'm a big fan of is Periard. If he can get healthy and re-establish himself this year in AA, I think he could prove to be a pleasant surprise as a poor mans Derek Lowe. Another big time GB pitcher who throws in the 90's, and has some nice secondary stuff. I suppose at the end of the day I'm just a lot higher on this group than others. I like this farm system from top to bottom as well as almost any in the past several years. We have a couple potential stars offensively, but more than that just good players to supplement the talent we have, and then we have a plethora of options on the mound. I'd be shocked if in the next 2-3 years we don't have at least a couple good home grown starting pitchers up and a good home grown BP as well. This draft will be especially important. While I'm crossing my fingers for Cole, Workman wouldn't upset me too much either......

First of all, apologies for the multiple posts in a row. I try not to do that on this board, but sometimes I come into a good discussion late and want to add my thoughts. I'm in complete, 100 pct disagreement when it comes to Mat Gamel. At leats with those who have soured on him or want to trade him. Obviously this is only from my vantage point, and I don't know what kind of kid he is, if he has attitude problems, is a bad guy, teammate, what have you, but from watching him play, if the Brewers give up on him and trade him, I believe they'll be making a rather large mistake. Gamel was not given anything close to a fair shake last year. In fact, it was laughable. The guy's one of the top 20 pure hitting prospects in the game, absolutely rakes in AA, rakes in AAA, we bring him up, sit him on the bench where his biggest issue is not being able to get into a rhythm and taking too many pitches, and called 3rd strikes, we send him back down and he doesn't quite play as well. So that takes him from one of the elite prospects in the game to a guy we are looking to dump? Gamel's got one one of the prettiest left handed swings I've seen. Short, compact, he stays in the zone and he stays in there vs left handed pitching to the point where he has hit lefties as well as RH'ers in the past. In fact, in many ways he reminds me of Chase Utley. It's just absolutely dumbfounding how this kid is almost seen to have "blown his chance", yet Rickie Weeks, JJ Hardy, and several others were allowed to fail. Gamel will become a .310/.395-ish hitter who will post an OPS around .850 and hit 25+ HR's in his peak years as an everyday player. With his athletic ability, I also believe he could become a premier defender at 1st base. Moving him now would be monumentally stupid in my opinion. Will someone PLEASE tell me at what point this organization will start to pick up on this whole sell HI buy LOW philosophy? You wanna trade a 3rd basemen? Casey McGehee. The guy who's likely to perform at a lower level than Gamel, is older and will net you a far bigger return. Plus you've got protection at 3rd in my opinion with Taylor Green and Brett Lawrie(whom I think profiles much better at 3rd than 2nd, but that's for another thread).

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I've heard this on a couple of occasions, the second guessing about this pitcher who waited to have surgery or this player who waited. It's incredibly easy to second guess when a guy is shut down with shoulder soreness, they try to rehab it, and then 2 months later after failing he has to have surgery. But it's taking a far more complex issue and trying to simplify it by saying, "the staff should have caught it earlier". Coming from a guy who's had several shoulder surgeries, almost too many to count, it's anything but an exact science how ligaments, muscles, tendons will repair. It's exceedingly difficult. That's not to mention you have a couple hundred players within a system, and you're also going off the assumption that athletes are being 100 pct forthcoming with all their injuries. Or even more to the point that pitchers KNOW enough about a sore shoulder to know it's something more serious. Players under sell their injuries, they don't report them to the team right away, they leave after the season with a sore shoulder/elbow thinking a little rest will heal it and then it does not. I find it particularly annoying when fans who have absolutely no further insight than any of the rest of us do come to the conclusion that our medical staff is somehow derelict in their duties is absolutely absurd. We all like to play amateur doctors when talking about these injuries, but we need to keep in mind....that's all we are. As for the pitchers and their instructors, that's one area I agree with....sorta. I believe that minor league instructors are VASTLY underpaid. You invest tens of millions of dollars in these players. Usually at least 10 a year and then perhaps a couple more on the Latin American market(though I can think of 30 additional million that SHOULD have been spent last year) and you scrimp on the instructors for these players. I don't know that it's the Brewers fault that we have pitchers who are wild. Let us not forget that power armed pitchers who struggle with the strike zone is by no means a Milwaukee Brewers issues, it's a professional baseball issue. It's way too early to throw Jeffress, Rogers, even Fredrickson into the group of "failures", but the minor leagues are littered each year with pitchers who have the arms to be aces, but are unable to command their pitches. The fact of the matter is both of these issues are more luck than anything else. You see the Brewers making advancements in their attempts to limit the variables in each situation, but at the end of the day, the single biggest factor is just good old fashion good LUCK.

These types of starts by Rogers are really starting to get me excited about his future prospects. If he can get his walk rate down, he's going to move himself back into the discussion of the top pitching prospects in the game. His LD pct is low, his GB pct for him is pretty respectable. His BABIP is .292, so that's right in line, but his BAA is .234, so he's obviously difficult to hit. I would say if we can gradually build him up to 85-90 on a regular basis and get him 130 innings, next year could be very interesting. I say he starts out starting in AAA, and hopefully if he has the success there he's capable of bring him up like we did Gallardo around August, start him in the BP and as a long man to limit his innings.

Hey, we got to watch Neuggy throw at least one gem! For us Brewers fans, that's about as good as it gets watching pitching prospects! No, I'm absolutely determined to take a optimistic point of view with this current crop. I believe we've got a plethora of options so that when a large pct of them inevitably go belly up as it appears as though Arnett may be doing(I know, I know it's WAY too early to start saying this), we'll have the numbers to graduate at least a couple of them. Rivas and Peralta look like very strong candidates. Rogers I'm still not confident can build his arm up enough to become a true big league starter, or that he has the control. We might have more in our AAA rotation than we first suspected however. Lofgren's looked alright, Estrada has looked very good as has Loe. Capuano is defying all odds, although I think he eventually goes through a rough spell down there trying to get his arm rounded back into shape. But Jeffress....Jeffress is one of the few guys in this organization who could be one of those guys who makes one of those impressive ascensions. With his big fastball and his power curve, if he could command those and refine his change he could go from HiA to the big leagues very quickly as a couple of pitchers every year seem to do.

I have to say, watching Estrada made me think of DiFelice. Not that they're the same pitchers or anything, Marco's got more legit stuff throwing in the low 90's, but both attack hitters and keep them off balance.

Your ignorence on this subject leaves me speechless for every comment you write about Jeffress. You are a broken record. Yes, we can tell you are a leader in the above the influence campaign and think anyone who touches is a drug is per worthless but that really is not the case. I believe Tim Licecum is doing pretty good for himself and he is a burnout...Michael Phelps aso has quit a few gold medals and also smokes. I personally don't smoke nor do i advocate it but I am not ignorant to sit here and say he is not a prospect, he is a low life, he can't amount to anything in his life and all the other crap you say about the kid... it is ridiculous. There have been players who were into more serious drugs than Jeffress and have had amazing careers. I have all the confidence in the world in Jeffress to come back and perform THANK YOU!!! I can't smoke. I get over the top paranoid, so I never really have, but we act as though he's a pedophile. What's more, what is the possible upside with cutting ties with him? To really show him? Like he wouldn't be picked up in a heartbeat? There is no downside to Jeremy Jeffress. We've already tempered expectations for him, but I don't understand the severe disdain for him either. I get that he's hurt the franchise, but it really gets over the top. We forget this is just a young kid still. Given millions(I thought he signed for nearly 2 million) and put in the spotlight. Not everykid does well in that situation. It reminds me of Rickie Williams. We have no idea what is going on with Jeffress, but I can say with some degree of certainty he's trying to fix the situation. I hope he comes back and he comes back strong. He could still be a huge key for our future, be it as a closer or a frontline starter. That's not even to begin to get into how petty or minor Pot is compared to almost any other drug, many of which are legal.

Yeah, I wasn't really paying attention. Texiera appeared in a couple of the rankings. I didn't realize he wasn't in the first ranking. AGon's the one I'm not sure of. Is he a .280/.360/.500 type hitter that he's been all of his career, or would he turn into a 1.000 OPS superstar playing outside of SD? The fact that I don't think he would is why I've got him down a bit further....despite a sparkling OPS+.

That one 100 game stretch is pretty much all he's done since his rookie season in 2003. As for my opinion of him coming into the season....I was indifferent. I certainly didn't understand the fanfare for him however.

Ryan Howard has a pretty good chance at getting to 500 HR, he will have 250+ by the end of this season at age 30. And Tex is already at 250 having just turned 30 in April. I think Texiera is vastly underrated. Throw in the fact that he plays for the Yankee's and everything that comes with that, PLUS the stadium he'll be hitting in and I think Texiera has as good of a chance to be a HOF'er as any of them.

1-Texiera Playing the rest of his career in New Yankee's stadium will do numbers for him. Not to mention he's got the DH to help him out as he ages unlike Howard or the rest of the NL guys. 2-Prince By far the youngest....will be interesting to see if his body holds up. 3-Howard Averaging almost 50 HR's a year over the last 4 years. He's been pretty damn impressive. 4-Agon A very good player...I can't imagine placing him above any of the 3 I have ahead of him. 5-Morneau A very good player, but not great.

I don't believe Doug Melvin's job security is in any danger whatsoever. I think Mark A is pretty firmly behind him. I believe Melvin will be the Brewers GM as long as he wishes to be.