HiAndTight

Exactly. A lot of infielders come from that sidearm angle in order to get the ball out quickly. You don't see many 3rd basemen who charge a slow roller or a bunt who gather themselves and throw over the top like a RF'er very often because the extra time is bad. As for Weeks "flat footed and stiffed leg side arm throws to first", I don't think some people realize that you have guys coming in hard trying to break up a play. I understand they teach you to throw over the top and step into every throw in little league and when you start playing baseball, but as you move up, different techniques are used in order to keep up. I think you're exactly right in that his problem is him aiming the ball rather than how he throws it.

He was the one guy I wanted to put on my list but just couldn't. After getting Hall, then Gennett and Howell...I was just giddy last year. Gennett was a guy everyone thought would be a top 60-90 pick last spring and much higher on many other lists. I think there is the chance we hit pretty big on this one.

Am I the only one who hates the powder blue? I don't know, I love the Powder blues in all sports. The older Brewers Powder Blue, the Chargers Powder Blue(probably the best) and the Nuggest powder Blues.

Yeah, it's hard to argue against those two. As I stated in the Fielder thread, the only way I'm locking him up and spending all that money on Prince is if our farm system progresses this year to the point where you can expect a nice flow of talent the next 4-5 years. Not just in terms of top tier talent, but also those peripheral players. Utility IF, MRP'ers, ect..ect.. The biggest aspect of that is obviously the starting pitching though. We need to be able to supplement this starting rotation so we don't have to give pitchers we don't think are worthy of big contracts-big contracts because we need somebody. With that said; 1-Brett Lawrie- With all my talk about pitching, I think Lawrie's our best prospect. I think he's the only offensive player we've got with the potential to be truly special in the big leagues. I don't care who it is, or how much hyperbole is being used, but when a guy gets compared to Rogers Hornsby...he good! 2-Eric Arnett Simply because he's a guy who could be on the fast track, is a big physical starter with good velocity who could develop into a strikeout pitcher. 3-Jake Odorizzi I've always been a big fan. I want him to succeed, but I'd also like to see him add a couple ticks to his fastball. If he does that, I think he becomes a future ace rather than the #3, maybe 2 that he could become as is. 4-Brooks Hall I'm just a huge fan of his as well. Big young, projectable. What's not to like. 5-Mark Rogers He's just an easy guy to root for. Seems like just a genuinely good kid who has had bad luck.

I agree. Of their "impact" players who is really on the upside of their careers? Soto and Zambrano is the only names i can think of, all the rest are on the wrong side of 30. A-ram is right at, or just beyond his peak, same with Lee. Honestly, if things start going south for them early, i would start trading off pieces(Lee, Aram, Zambrano, Soriano) and try to rebuild quickly. And with regard to Zambrano, I don't think he's truly on the upside. Of course looking at just his age you could make that argument, but big boy's gotta whole lotta miles on that right arm of his and has been on a fairly steady decline the previous 5-6 years. I do still believe that the Cubs are the best team in the division and that they were still better than the Brewers last year despite having a rash of injuries and under performing players. They've still got a good starting rotation, a nice lineup and a good backend of the pen. But I definitely agree that they've got a lot of big question marks. The problem with trading the players you listed, Zambrano and moreso Soriano have awful contracts for the current market.

I don't believe anyone's argued he's a lock to make the team. I don't pretend to know the Brewers intentions at this time, what I DO know is that it's not uncommon for a former top prospect to move to another organization and have some success. That's all we're hoping for. I would guess that Lofgren's chances are better than Casey McGehee's chances last year As for the Players you've listed, neither Schoenweis or Murray are here on big league deals meaning they've got no better a chance at this point to make the team than Lofgren, Davis is a starter, and logic tells you that if Lofgren's going to break camp with this team, baring injuries, it'll be in the pen, so I don't see him being a huge obstacle. I also don't believe that he has to be lights out while others have to stuggle. That's implying that there is some inherent preference for the Brewers to keep Narveson and dump Lofgren. I think if he has a good camp and out performs others, he'll make the team.

I'd feel better if he had even made a single attempt, and no Capellan was not a top of the rotation starter, he never had that kind of potential, and there's no way ATL was going to be stupid enough to trade a top of the rotation starter for a struggling closer, they don't make those kind NYM mistakes. And therein lies the problem with these types of debates. The timelines get blurred and the facts get lost in the translation. Dan Kolb was in no way a struggling closer coming off of a 39 save season and a 2.98 ERA and a 1.96 ERA with 21 saves after taking over the starting job halfway into that season. AS for Jose Capellan, he was one of the highest rated prospects the Brewers have had in the past 10 years, I believe cracking the top 20 overall prospects in the game. To discount that attempt by saying, "well, if the Braves did it, then you know he wasn't that good" is completely disengenious and a self serving argument. This is the same team that gave away the farm for a uninspiring year out of Texira(not from him, from the team in general). Melvin also added a highly regarded prospect in DLR around the same time. The bottom line is it's easy to go back after a player pans out or doesn't pan out and poke holes in the FO's decisions, but it's ultimately an exercise in futility.

I really hope the Brewers find a way to keep this kid in their organization. Worse case scenario, use him as your 2nd loogy/long man. He's just got too good of stuff to send him back. He's got the potential to be a great, great find if he can put it all together.

Geez, you wanna go and throw Brett Lawrie, Eric Arnett and Amaury Rivas into that group as well!! Seriously though, I clearly see your points, just thought it a big funny that you used a guy who posted a 1.67 ERA THIS YEAR for the Brewers to another guy who is still pitching for the Brewers and is a contender to make the 25 man at some point in time this year. Again, I do get your point. Rogers has not developed as we hoped he would. On that note, I think that the obvious one is Nick Neugabauer. He has to top everyone's list as he could have been one of those rare, once in a generation type aces for a organization. I would throw Jorge Dela Rosa into that list as well. As others have mentioned, his stuff was just so incredibly nasty, and with that Change, I thought we were getting a poor mans Johan Santana for years to come. Obviously this seemingly endless list of names, DLR, Neuggy, Gold, and on and on give you reason for pause with this young group of pitchers we've got. I do like the fact that we're trying to add as many big time arms as possible and hope that we can get a couple to work out here and there..... I'll say this, you could compare what we hoped would have been our rotation about 7-8 years ago with Sheets, Neugabauer, Gold, Hendrickson and D'amico to what we hope will be our rotation in 2-3 years with Gallardo, Arnett, Scarpetta, Braddock and Rogers and have an interesting discussion about which group had/has more talent.

Because that's how fans are. If a guy puts up an ugly ERA, then he sucks, and we must dump him. Of course that's not how all fans are, but lets face it, it's how the vast majority of the fans are. Honestly I think the same applies to Manny Parra. The guy's a uber talented young minor leaguer the whole time he's in our system, the only question is health. He never had control issues, he put up impressive lines at every stop, again, health permitting, he comes up to the big leagues and in his first cup of coffee, and then the following year impresses. Then last year he has a bad year and the overwhelming opinion is that he's not a good option and we should get rid of him. I think a lot of us suspected he was injured last year, and I said as much on several occasions. Not that this is anything new, but when a pitcher starts to lose control or velocity, injury is the first thought. Well, he pitched with discomfort all year, got his shoulder cleaned up, and I think we should expect that Manny Parra next year. The same goes for Dave Bush. He's been a very, very solid pitcher for us. His time in Milwaukee has been that of a very solid middle of the rotation type of guy who consistently takes the ball every 5th day and gives you good innings. He gets hurt, guts it out and now he's a guy we should just non-tender? I can at least understand with Dave Bush you don't really have that upside of a #2 type pitcher. At his best he's a solid 3. But basically the only chance we have at putting out a better than average rotation next year is for Manny Parra to break out and become that #2 type pitcher for us. I think he's more than capable of posting a ~3.75-3.90 ERA and Bush a 4.25. I can't fathom giving up either when we're in such dire need of better pitching.

Again though, you're ignoring the possability that he doesn't earn that 85 million. How many players have fallen off the cliff and seen their earning power greatly diminish in a short period of time? Not saying that'd happen to Braun, it likely wouldn't have, but you take that 45 million and you can still cash in as a FA, but you've got that guaranteed money. What's more, waiting FIVE years to become a FA is more than just being a little patient. When you're talking about your financial future, that's taking a lot of patience. AS for what you surround Prince with, this is why I was saying I'm only making that deal if you've got a farm system that you believe can produce a significant amount of big league talent to make up for the 10 million dollars you're losing between Prince earning the 11 he's making this year and the 20-25 he'd be earning in Free Agency.

For what it's worth(and that isn't very much at all), but I don't think Phillips was the GM who dumped Kazmir. I believe it was Duguette who traded Kazmir after he replaced Phillips.

It's not strong obviously, but this has got to be hyperbole. It's not that bad. It's not the weakest in the big leagues right now. Luis Gonzalez and Juan Pierre both have/had substantially weaker arms. To plug a player like Damon into the lineup, I'd move Braun to RF and stick Damon in at left. To work a .300/.365 bat into the order in the #2 hole, I'd give up some defense, especially with the additions of Escobar and Gomez to the lineup. We'd have to deal Hart, and then scrap the Edmonds idea for this to happen(roughly about 5.5 million savings) and then give him 6-7 million dollars. It almost certainly won't happen, but in terms of fantasy baseball, we could do far worse.

Vaughn is often used as a comparison to Fielder, but he was 31 years old when he went into free agency, Prince will be 27. Generally, a player's prime years are late 20's early 30's, Prince's next contract will cover that. I also disagree with the fact that Vaughn was a better player than Prince is. The batting average was higher, but give Prince some time, I think that his will go up. Plus, Prince hit 50 homers at an age where Vaughn spent most of the season in Pawtucket. I didn't say Prince was the greatest, I said he will perhaps be the greatest. Don't get me wrong, I grew up as the biggest fan of Robin, but he didn't turn into a good offensive player until he turned about 25 or so. Prince is 25, and he already has 160 home runs. I 'Right now, Yount and Molitor are 1 and 1a, but if Prince and Braun keep this up for another 10 years, they will be right there. I still contend that free agency has been littered with a seemingly endless list of players who cashed in with big time contracts only to succomb to injuries, poor performance, of even just complacency after getting paid. AS for Prince and Mo, I don't really think it's all that important if you want to say one was better than the other, but Vaughn's three years prior to signing with the Angels were; .315/.402/.591, .326/.420/.583 and .337/.402/.591. So the issue isn't so much if Prince is slightly better, or Vaughn is, and I don't believe how old they were when they came up is of particular importence for this issue either, it's simply to point out that he was at the very least on Prince's level and was considered to be a premier offensive player. He did win an MVP. The point is he immediately experianced a large drop off, then was injured and his career was essentially over. It was devastating to the Angels. To the Brewers, it would be completely crippling. Now simply because Vaughn did does not mean Prince will, but there is a concern of him gaining wait after a 120+ million dollar payday, and that added weight leading to declining numbers and health. I just don't think it's a risk we can afford to take and one we especially cannot do unless we have all our birds in a row so to speak. Farm system, other contracts, etc..etc...

I actually agree with you on this point. I also believe that Mark A was the driving force in the Jeff Suppan signing as has been speculated by many. This actually leads to believe that he will again do so with Prince Fielder. Based on his previous comments about Prince, I get the feeling he's going to do what it takes to sign him.

Reds fans probably thought the same thing back in 2000 when they signed Ken Griffey Jr to a big free agent contract. But the "best" thing that it did was cripple the franchise financially for years and prevent them from fielding a competitive team. The article doesnt really seem to say too much. Fielder, smartly, is keeping a low profile about the whole thing. Reality of the matter is that if the team is anywhere near what Pecota has projected for the Brewers on July 31, 2010, Fielder will probably be dealt to a team in contention for a very nice, farm system revitalizing, prospect laden deal. I would rather take a chance crippling the franchise by signing perhaps the best player that it has ever produced. Despite his size, Prince has been very durable, so I'll take the risk that he gets injured. He will only be 27 when he's up for free agency, so I don't buy into the 'he will get too big and be an injury risk and/or unable to play first base' argument. I don't want to rebuild by taking a prospect laden deal. It seems to me that most of the time these superstar for prospects deals don't work out very well for the team taking prospects (unless you're Florida, I guess). The fact is that Suppan and Hall will be both off the books in Prince's free agent year. That should free up almost $20 million of payroll. I say wait and see what Mauer ends up getting from the Twins and make Prince a similar offer this season. Griffey was traded to the Reds, by the way. I think they dumped a big contract on him right away thereafter though. It also seems to me that often times these gigantic deals handed out by small market teams don't work out very well. I love Prince Fielder, but the only way I'm on board with signing him is if your entire farm system takes a giant leap forward this year which is very possible. You have a number of arms who establish themselves as viable big league starters and frontline starters moving forward. The biggest factor there is health. You have a couple of big time hitting prospects take the next step. Brett Lawrie, Taylor Green, Kentrail Davis and our young catcher combo jump to mind. And you lock up Yovani Gallardo to a Braun-like deal. If you have high cieling prospects to supplement the players you'll lose when you have the payroll constrictions, and if you have Gallardo locked up, the one player most fear will be a casualty of a Prince signing, THEN I'd be a little bit more agreeable to a contract for Prince at 22-25 million per(though the FA crop at 1B will likley push that # down). If however you have a very thin minor league system and are in danger of paying two players to hit lots of HR's for a sinking ship, I'd rather back up a bit, take as much as we can for Prince and kinda collect ourselves while gearing up for another run. th your post. I don't know how you can not "buy" the potential for his size to create long term injury implications. Mo Vaughn was quite honestly a better player for the Red Sox, and saw a sharp decline shortly after signing with the Angels due to knee and back issues. That's the one that jumps out, but the list is long. Also, I think a certain Two-Time MVP at a premium position and a leadoff hitter with 3300 hits may disagree with the "greatest the franchise has produced" line.

Ah hell, I can't stick to just those. Minor Leagues; Jake Odorizzi-Easy and fluid delivery and effectiveness allow him to throw 125 innings with 10K's per 9, and a 2-2.5 GO/FO ratio. Kentrail Davis-Puts up a .325/.415/.575 line in Low A and quickly asserts himself as thee steal of the draft and a top 25 prospect in the game. AND.....Cody Scarpetta. The ticking clock and electric stuff combine to push him and he posts a sub-3.00 ERA with a 1.10 Whip, 11K per 9IP, and a 3-1 K/BB ratio as he puts himself firmly in line to be a 2011 early to mid-season callup! By the way, this topic makes me almost more excited for Minor League baseball this season than Brewers baseball. I can't wait to see if some of us are right about the Brewers young stable of arms, or if BA is correct and we're really one of the weakest systems in the game.

LOL......we're going to read these at the end of the year and find a lot of comments that we can't believe we made and a couple that prove prophetic. The first one I'm gonna throw out there very well may prove to be the prior, but I think Jeff Suppan will be a very big surprise for the Brewers. I'm predicting a 4.40 ERA this year and 195 innings pitched. I don't know if he'll do it with a .185 BABIP and walking 185 guys, but I think he'll someone manage to not be terrible this year(at least his ERA won't be). Please don't ask me to substantiate that one. It's just one part guess, one part wishful thinking and one part "injured pitcher-in-a-contract-year". As for the youngsters, I think McGehee will struggle and prove to be just a guy as he was for his entire minor league career and Mat Gamel will step up and hit around .300/.365/.500 and have a big season for us in the #2 spot. I fear a handful of guys will struggle or regress, but I also think you'll see a passable .285/.325 type line from Gomez who hits for a little more pop than we expect. Not a surprisingly "great" season by any means, but a surprisingly "not awful" season......

There are a whole lot of innings to be played at 1st base if Prince is the DH for interleague play, a very wise decision to give the big guy a little bit of rest IMO. Not only that, but we're assuming he stays healthy. AS for his lack of PH'ing experiance, you don't expect all stars to rack up the pinch hitting appearances, do you? Is it much of a surprise he hasn't accumulated a great deal of PH AB's in his career? That he hasn't doesn't mean he can't. In any event, I'm sure these facts haven't elluded the Brewers and they have taken them into consideration.

I think theres about a 0.5% chance Hart plays center unless it is a huge emergency. He can't even play RF well.I think there is a very good chance Hart finds himself playing CF at times this year. He's lost 22 pounds and hopefully has regained a bit of the athleticism that contributed to him becoming an above average player early in his career. If he can do that, he can give us a serviceable CF'er. Not Carlos Gomez, but not a complete butcher out there either.

Couldn't we use the flip side and say "it's the Gabe Kapler signing all over again". Two years ago, this type of move worked. Last year (Nixon) it didn't. This year, it might work and might not. But based on his 2008 season, he was not done being a productive MLB player. I know I'm behind the proverbial 8 ball on this one, but reading through this thread, this was my exact thought. It's too easy to say Edmonds sucks. If it didn't appear to all the world he was washed up, well then he wouldn't be available on a minor league deal with absolutely no guarantees. I'll absolutely never get mad at the Brewers taking a shot with a formerly good/great player hoping to squeeze one more year out of them as a pinch hitter. I saw it too often as a kid with the Willie Randolph, Dave Parkers of the world. If it works, it works. Nobody liked Gabe Kapler until everyone loved Gabe Kapler. Now personally I've always thought of Mr. Edmonds as bit of a clown, but I'll order some size 25 shoes and put on a red nose if he can put up a .900 OPS vs Righies and play a little D in RF this year!

I love Peralta, but if I have to pick one guy who's a bit of a sleeper for the top 100 in 2011, I think it's Rivas. He's not really on any lists right now, throws in the mid to upper 90's, has a great change, and is a couple years removed from injury problems. I will say however it is so incredibly tiring to hear about our huge lack of viable pitching prospects. I do not believer there are many teams in the game that have the top of prospects we have on the mound. Of course the fact that there are all between 1-3 years away is a huge factor as there are just so many things that can go wrong in that time period. Still does not change the fact we've got a ton of potentially impactful young arms. I really have to vehemetly disagree with a lot of what BA said this year about the Brewers.....perhaps it's because I'm biased, follow the team closer than they do, or they're wrong. Not sure which!

I've actually done a bit of a 180 on this one, but I'm not at the point where I would have seriously considered non-tendering Dave Bush. I believe he'll be looking at roughly 5.5, though even 6 isn't out of the question(my guess is he'll ask for about 6 and we'll offer about 5 and meet somewhere in the middle). But if you were to non-tender him, I think you could get more bang for your buck on the FA market. Perhaps as has been speculated, Bett Meyers or another one of the solid FA's still on the market.

Wolf's salary is $9.25M. The $5.25 is already taking the $4M into account. I don't follow what you mean by this. "The 5.25 is already taking the 4 million into account"? I was under the impression that Wolf was only making 5.25 million this year in salary and his list was at 9.25. Am I missing something?

I agree Nate. Given that we are in a economic recession, Milwaukee has been hit harder than a lot of other markets, I'm pretty impressed that we're already in the mid 80's at this point in time with the prospect of adding another pitcher should we be able to find one who matches our prerequisites and one who is ammenable to pitching in Milwaukee. Of the pitchers you mentioned I would have to agree that Brett Meyers would be one of my favorites because I think he could be had for 4-5 million which is probably right around the limit of what we're able to spend, and I believe he's a prime candidate for a bounce back year given that it was a torn labrum in his hip that caused him to miss a substantial chunk of last year. He's also a strikeout pitcher who still possess good stuff. I think Doug Davis would have to agree to come back for a one year deal at 7 million at most for us to even consider it and with Wolf, Para and then Narveson, a right hander would be preferable. Not a deal breaker obviously...if we could trade for Clayton Kershaw, we're not gonna turn it down because we've got a few lefties obviously. But a consideration. At the end of the day though, you have to sorta take what Melvin says with a grain of salt. He's indicated that they would consider adding another pitcher should there be a suitable match, but also suggested we're done spending for the time being....similar to what he did last year prior to signing Braden Looper. So I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be very interesting.